The F1 Thread 2015 Season

I wonder if the likes of Renault & Honda are playing with the fact they can develop parts of the engine outside of their tokens for the sole purpose of reliability.

One thing I noticed was Button's start. Hardly scientific but he wasn't exactly sluggish from the line.
 
Red Bull threaten to quit F1
Marko warns "there is a danger" that owner Dietrich Mateschitz will lose "passion for F1"; Horner hits out at engine supplier Renault
Red Bull have warned they could quit F1 unless the sport’s regulations are overhauled in the wake of Mercedes' crushing victory in the Australian GPP

The former world champions finished the season-opening event a lap down on runaway leaders Mercedes who have dominated the sport since the advent of F1’s new power-centric turbo era.

According to Helmut Marko, an advisor to Dietrich Mateschitz, the Red Bull magnate who owns both the eponymous outfit and its junior team Toro Rosso, the group could withdraw from the sport at the end of the year.
"We will evaluate the situation again [in the summer] as every year and look into costs and revenues," Marko was quoted telling the Austrian media in Melbourne.

"If we are totally dissatisfied we could comtemplate an F1 exit. The danger is there that Mr Mateschitz loses his passion for F1."
Red Bull endured a torrid weekend in Australia, with the car of Daniil Kvyat breaking down on the formation lap and Daniel Ricciardo lapped by both Lewis Hamilton and Nico Rosberg. Team boss Christian Horner hit out at Red Bull’s engine suppliers Renault after the race, describing them as “a bit of a mess”, and calling on the FIA, F1’s governing body, to consider implementing “an equalisation mechanism” in order to clip Mercedes’ wings.

“The problem is the gap is so big. You end up with three-tier racing and I think that’s not healthy for Formula 1,” Horner said.

However, Marko has insisted that Red Bull would be unhappy with F1’s current formula even if they were still replicating their success at the turn of the decade when they won four successive title doubles.

"These power units are the wrong solution for F1, and we would say this even if Renault were in the lead," he reportedly said.

"A designer like Adrian Newey is castrated by this engine formula. These rules will kill the sport."
 
"We will evaluate the situation again [in the summer] as every year and look into costs and revenues,"
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"These power units are the wrong solution for F1, and we would say this even if Renault were in the lead,"
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I cannot believe that second quote to ever be true, especially if you believe the first about revenues.

I didn't hear them wanting rule changes when they dominated for four straight years.

The Mercs have only dominated for 1 year (although 2 looks inevitable), they shouldn't be punished for brilliant engineering. It comes down to being clever and long term planning.
 
As Hamilton once said, they're just a drinks company. Someone else will take their place and the engineers will move on to other teams. It's not like Red Bull are historically important.
 
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Dante said:
As Hamilton once said, they're just a drinks company. Someone else will take their place and the engineers will move on to other teams. It's not like Red Bull are historically important.
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this - fuc4 them off. , they had the world by the ballz and never said a word. laterz.
 
theyneverlearn said:
I cannot believe that second quote to ever be true, especially if you believe the first about revenues.

I didn't hear them wanting rule changes when they dominated for four straight years.

The Mercs have only dominated for 1 year (although 2 looks inevitable), they shouldn't be punished for brilliant engineering. It comes down to being clever and long term planning.
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Exactly.
 
gormless said:
I was reading an artice about worst defending champions across sport earlier, and I was wondering if somebody could answer the following. Why did Damon Hill join Arrows in 97?
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That's all that was left, I suppose. I think Frank Williams cut him loose because he expected to earn too much, especially after winning the title.
 
Ecclestone agrees. "They are absolutely 100 per cent right," he said. "There is a rule that I think [former president] Max [Mosley] put in when he was there that in the event...that a particular team or engine supplier did something magic - which Mercedes have done - the FIA can level up things.

"They [Mercedes] have done a first class job which everybody acknowledges. We need to change things a little bit now and try and level things up a little bit."


OH Shit , I can feel something crazy coming from Bernie.
 
Changing the regs mid-season is stupid but it's hardly new.

Red Bull are clearly only moaning because they're struggling, but they did have regs changed on them during their dominant years, and they never had this level of advantage.
 
gormless said:
I was reading an artice about worst defending champions across sport earlier, and I was wondering if somebody could answer the following. Why did Damon Hill join Arrows in 97?
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Williams signed Frentzen to replace him for less money, they already had Villeneuve who at the time was very highly rated. The story goes that Patrick Head never truly rated Hill as a driver and Williams did a deal to sign Frentzen way back in like 1995, legally they tried to show they agreed to a deal mid-1996 but the rumour is they had a deal in place way before that.

So Hill left and he was 36, nobody wanted to pay him big money despite the fact he was World Champion, McLaren wanted him but wanted him for peanuts. So Hill said feck it and signed for Arrows.
 
Leg-End said:
Williams signed Frentzen to replace him for less money, they already had Villeneuve who at the time was very highly rated. The story goes that Patrick Head never truly rated Hill as a driver and Williams did a deal to sign Frentzen way back in like 1995, legally they tried to show they agreed to a deal mid-1996 but the rumour is they had a deal in place way before that.

So Hill left and he was 36, nobody wanted to pay him big mony despite the fact he was World Champion, McLaren wanted him but wanted him for peanuts. So Hill said feck it and signed for Arrows.
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Thanks. In hindsight that McLaren job would have been a good idea!
 
A year of development in 1997 and then hit the big time with the MP4/13 in 1998.

Would he have done better than DC against Mika though? He famously didn't get on with the grooved tyres to the point where he just gave up in 1999. If he did better with the McLaren though then him vs. Mika vs. Michael would've been special.

Damon was my favourite driver growing up. The Rothmans Williams being my favourite car, his helmet being a great design and then being British too helped. As a racer he's vastly underrated I think, partially due to being up against one of the greatest ever and partially due to the way he ended his career at Arrows and Jordan. His performance in the rain in Japan in 1994 was one of the greatest ever individual drives I think.
 
Hill also didn't even start racing cars until he was 23, he was into motorbike racing instead.
 
pauldyson1uk said:
Ecclestone agrees. "They are absolutely 100 per cent right," he said. "There is a rule that I think [former president] Max [Mosley] put in when he was there that in the event...that a particular team or engine supplier did something magic - which Mercedes have done - the FIA can level up things.

"They [Mercedes] have done a first class job which everybody acknowledges. We need to change things a little bit now and try and level things up a little bit."


OH Shit , I can feel something crazy coming from Bernie.
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he won't do it because of that (or red bulls chassis would have been "leveled" three yrs ago) this is his get out of jail free card because no fan is happy with the engines - the sound was one of the things we loved even as they lowered the bar.
 
matherto said:
Damon was my favourite driver growing up. The Rothmans Williams being my favourite car, his helmet being a great design and then being British too helped. As a racer he's vastly underrated I think, partially due to being up against one of the greatest ever and partially due to the way he ended his career at Arrows and Jordan. His performance in the rain in Japan in 1994 was one of the greatest ever individual drives I think.
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I think he also had an astounding race for Arrows, missing out on a victory because of a very late technical problem.
 
Amir said:
I think he also had an astounding race for Arrows, missing out on a victory because of a very late technical problem.
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That was an epic drive (also partly to do with tyres). It was at Hungary. He was overtook on the last lap!

The only time I've seen something similar is when Matt Neal used to drive for an independent team in Touring cars and used to be right in the mix.
 
Yes, they restricted it mid-season by not allowing hot exhaust air to pass through the diffuser or something. I remember because it was for the Silverstone grand prix. Then for the next season they banned blowing exhaust gases back on to the rear of the car completely.

It is hardly a shock, the FIA has always done it where possible. It was more hilarious when they kept doing it to Ferrari but they were on another level with Schumacher. Horner, who is brilliant at this PR and only Brawn is better, used to say other team managers were moaning - some of it was true but some of it wasn't, remember the claim that Red Bull had adjustable ride height controllers! That then eventually turned into the magical flexi but not technically flexi front wings.

Most fans don't care or even get it, we just want to see racing! I guess that is the main point and the winning team has to accept that despite the long term planning they will be caught up one way or another for the good of the sport (profit taker).
 
Rado_N said:
The double and blown defusers were changed/restricted weren't they?
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Blown diffusers were banned well before the EBD situation. EBD was banned because the point of the initial ban was to stop blowing diffusers entirely, not to find new ways of doing it.

Double diffusers were pushed by Brawn, Toyota & Williams in 2009. Proved legal in court during that season when teams contested it, in 2010 every team had a variance of the double diffuser in place. The FIA banned the concept for the 2011 season.
 
While it's ironic for Red Bull to moan about the Mercedes team, I do agree that something should be done. I know it's up to other teams to catch up and Mercedes have done a wonderful job, but it's not good for F1. First race of the season and the championship is over. I don't remember any team being this dominant.
 
PlayerOne said:
While it's ironic for Red Bull to moan about the Mercedes team, I do agree that something should be done. I know it's up to other teams to catch up and Mercedes have done a wonderful job, but it's not good for F1.
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Mercedes simply haven't done anything wrong though, they simply invested into developing the V6 early and have a supreme chassis & aero package. It would be a bit harsh for them to be penalised on interpreting the rules correctly, is this the right message that should be sent out to teams? Teams who aren't beating them just need to up their game, and from what you see on speed traps its the mid-low speed corners is where Mercedes are smashing it, which would argue further that its their chassis/aero package which is giving them the dominance.

PlayerOne said:
First race of the season and the championship is over. I don't remember any team being this dominant.
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In most recent time the MP4-13 from McLaren in 1998 was a beast that was just as dominant.
 
PlayerOne said:
While it's ironic for Red Bull to moan about the Mercedes team, I do agree that something should be done. I know it's up to other teams to catch up and Mercedes have done a wonderful job, but it's not good for F1. First race of the season and the championship is over. I don't remember any team being this dominant.
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red bull 2011 and the 88 season was only prost and senna it's happened before and is now and will again.
 
I will admit that I didn't watch the 88 season, but all those teams were not dominant for two consecutive seasons.

And yes, Mercedes have done nothing wrong. Like I said, it's up to the other teams to step up, but they haven't.
 
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What's the point of challenging each teams' technical staff to do the best they can possibly do (within the rules, of course) if any advantage their excellence gains for their team might be falsely eradicated? The leadership of F1 has long been a joke, totally expedient and periodically biased, and yet we're supposed to buy this idea that they care about the good of the sport; do they f*ck.
 
It begs the question why is then even a topic of conversation when a much larger issue, one that could impact the whole sport, is being largely glossed over by the people in charge. 15 cars started the race, atleast 3 of the teams are in financial difficulties, 1 team can't even be paid until they start a race because of some ridiculous rule about their prize funds from the previous year, 1 team is involved in a legal battle that nearly shut them down and we are losing the German GP because of money.

F1 is in really poor shape, we might even face a future where 13-14 cars starting races regularly is a reality or 3 car teams, simply because they refuse to implement effective cost cutting measures.
 
Leg-End said:
It begs the question why is then even a topic of conversation when a much larger issue, one that could impact the whole sport, is being largely glossed over by the people in charge. 15 cars started the race, atleast 3 of the teams are in financial difficulties, 1 team can't even be paid until they start a race because of some ridiculous rule about their prize funds from the previous year, 1 team is involved in a legal battle that nearly shut them down and we are losing the German GP because of money.

F1 is in really poor shape, we might even face a future where 13-14 cars starting races regularly is a reality or 3 car teams, simply because they refuse to implement effective cost cutting measures.
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Think Red Bull are in a bit of trouble too. Signs seem to be pointing towards Renault getting their own team. Who will supply RB with an engine then?
 
I don't think Red Bull are in trouble, they are sick of the incompetance of Renault and the sudden fact they are no longer top dogs, but financially I doubt they are in trouble.

I'd imagine RB can't wait to get away from Renault and frankly they would have the pick of engine suppliers, they are still a top team. I heard rumours of a potential Audi hookup but Audi being in F1 rumours have been circulating around since SteveJ was in short pants.
 
Last week, you mean? ;)
 
Leg-End said:
I don't think Red Bull are in trouble, they are sick of the incompetance of Renault and the sudden fact they are no longer top dogs, but financially I doubt they are in trouble.

I'd imagine RB can't wait to get away from Renault and frankly they would have the pick of engine suppliers, they are still a top team. I heard rumours of a potential Audi hookup but Audi being in F1 rumours have been circulating around since SteveJ was in short pants.
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I didn't mean financially, rather struggling to find a engine supplier. You say they have their pick, I don't see it that way. Don't see Honda supplying them, same goes for Mercedes and Ferrari.
 
PlayerOne said:
I didn't mean financially, rather struggling to find a engine supplier. You say they have their pick, I don't see it that way. Don't see Honda supplying them, same goes for Mercedes and Ferrari.
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Because engine suppliers like money and success, if they were scared of being beat with their own engines then they wouldn't supply other teams.

The downside for Red Bull will be they might get a top engine but they won't ever get the integration or top line product as an outsider, they need their own relationship if they want to be the best. Red Bull have been ready to end their relationship with Renault for some time now and they will either settle for a lesser partnership with Mercedes/Honda/Ferrari or more likely seek to entice new suppliers into F1, as much as I dislike Red Bull they are a great platform for success and I don't see that changing just yet. Big names are starting to dip their toes back into top line motorsports after the financial collapse and I wouldn't be shocked at all to see Red Bull hook up with an Audi/BMW/VW/Toyota.
 
Leg-End said:
Because engine suppliers like money and success, if they were scared of being beat with their own engines then they wouldn't supply other teams.

The downside for Red Bull will be they might get a top engine but they won't ever get the integration or top line product as an outsider, they need their own relationship if they want to be the best. Red Bull have been ready to end their relationship with Renault for some time now and they will either settle for a lesser partnership with Mercedes/Honda/Ferrari or more likely seek to entice new suppliers into F1, as much as I dislike Red Bull they are a great platform for success and I don't see that changing just yet. Big names are starting to dip their toes back into top line motorsports after the financial collapse and I wouldn't be shocked at all to see Red Bull hook up with an Audi/BMW/VW/Toyota.
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If they are disappointed with the Renault engine then imagine how they would feel with a Honda right now... And Honda have a lot more experience in F1 than vw-audi
 
sun_tzu said:
If they are disappointed with the Renault engine then imagine how they would feel with a Honda right now... And Honda have a lot more experience in F1 than vw-audi
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True but its early days, we don't know how good the Honda engine is until they run the thing at 100%.

As much as Honda have clearly failed to get on top of the issues, you do have to wonder if its partly cause by McLaren trying to run before they could walk, did they really need to tightly package everything and adopt really aggressive cooling solutions with a brand new engine? They could have developed a safe early season car and progressively introduced their updates once they knew what their engine needed, to me it looks like they gambled on the engine handling it in the hope they could be up the front from Race 1, where as its backfired and they are at the back instead........its so very McLaren to do that.
 
There will be no German GP in 2015, according to reports in the country after Hockenheim’s boss Georg Seiler said the time had passed to put a deal together.

The race has been hosted on alternate years by Hockenheim and the Nurburgring to allow the venues to share the financial burden of staging the event.

However, its future has been in doubt as the Nurburgring, which was due to host the race in 2015, continues to battle financial problems.

In January Bernie Ecclestone declared that the Nurburgring could not stage the race “because there's nobody there” and confirmed he was in talks with Hockenheim to become the sole host.

Ahead of the Australian GP, the F1 surpemo went a stage further: “The German Grand Prix is dead at the moment,” Ecclestone was quoted by theIndependent. “It won’t get replaced if it doesn’t happen. As with any race, if it is cancelled it is cancelled. There’s not much we can do.”

However, a deal is yet to be confirmed and the circuit’s boss Seiler says it is now too late to organise staging the race.

"We have no more hope that the Formula 1 takes place here. We have done in the last few years everything to make the fans happy,” Seiler was quoted by Bild.

"The time has expired, to organize a race here. Otherwise, the quality of the event would have suffered.

"We had agreed to host the race of the Nurburgring. For this purpose, we would have been under no contractual obligation.

"There were discussions with third parties on an assumption of risk, but that did not lead to success."
 
Was reading that F1 is struggling in Germany, there was a big fall in viewers, from 3.12m last year to 1.72m viewers for RTL this year.

Not really liking where F1 is heading tbh.
 
PlayerOne said:
Was reading that F1 is struggling in Germany, there was a big fall in viewers, from 3.12m last year to 1.72m viewers for RTL this year.
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The race was an hour earlier this year though, so I wouldn't read too much into that.
 
Giggsy92 said:
The race was an hour earlier this year though, so I wouldn't read too much into that.
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Even so, that's too big of a fall to be purely put down to starting an hour early. Read that the viewing have been falling since last season and that RTL might not pick up F1 after their current contract is up. It's odd, Germans are doing well in F1. You would think more fans would be watching.
 
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