The F1 Thread 2010 Season

Infact I just think from the next race onwards people might actually just overtake the SC anyway and take a drive through penalty 20 laps down the line. It would be worth it imo.
 
wr8_utd said:
I think it's more because he's not that talented a driver but sitting in one of the best cars and doing well.

Always preferred Kimi and ALonso to him.

Alonso is the most talented driver right now easily. Winning back to back titles with the Renault and that too against Schumi was phenomenol
Click to expand...

Right, so Hamilton isn't that talented but is sitting in one of the best cars, but Alonso was talented when he beat Schumacher - despite being sat in easily the best car at the time?

Jesus wept, has it got to the point where Alonso fans just make shit up now? If Alonso is so superior to Hamilton then why did Lewis finish level on points with him in the same car in his rookie season? Some conspiracy theory, no doubt. I used to like Alonso, I truly did, but in the past few seasons he's become such a whiny little bitch.
 
Count Duckula said:
Right, so Hamilton isn't that talented but is sitting in one of the best cars, but Alonso was talented when he beat Schumacher - despite being sat in easily the best car at the time?

Jesus wept, has it got to the point where Hamilton fans just make shit up now? If Alonso is so superior to Hamilton then why did Lewis finish level on points with him in the same car in his rookie season? Some conspiracy theory, no doubt. I used to like Alonso, I truly did, but in the past few seasons he's become such a whiny little bitch.
Click to expand...

Where never gonna win mate even after like you said what he did in his first year, then winning the title and last year with the dog of a car he still got results showed how good he really is yet he is still overrated.
 
Count Duckula said:
Right, so Hamilton isn't that talented but is sitting in one of the best cars, but Alonso was talented when he beat Schumacher - despite being sat in easily the best car at the time?

Jesus wept, has it got to the point where Hamilton fans just make shit up now? If Alonso is so superior to Hamilton then why did Lewis finish level on points with him in the same car in his rookie season? Some conspiracy theory, no doubt. I used to like Alonso, I truly did, but in the past few seasons he's become such a whiny little bitch.
Click to expand...

It's kind of hard to race when your own team does not really want you to win maybe eh? Or if your team quite openly supports the other driver. Just ask Webber.

Renault was not a great car, and you can see right now again why it's not great. It certainly was not as fast as the Ferraris or the McLaren at that time. And yet Alonso took that car to two back to back titles.

I love Mclaren. It's been my favorite team since Hakinnen was there and even more so when Kimi came but it's really been ruined thanks to Hamilton coming here.

Agree with the fact that Alonso's become whiny but you can understand his frustrations at times.
 
wr8_utd said:
It's kind of hard to race when your own team does not really want you to win maybe eh? Or if your team quite openly supports the other driver. Just ask Webber.
Click to expand...

Yeh, they openly supported Lewis. Or, shockingly, Alonso might just have been being a whiny little bitch because he expected to be numero uno and didn't like that someone was actually challenging him.

wr8_utd said:
Renault was not a great car, and you can see right now again why it's not great. It certainly was not as fast as the Ferraris or the McLaren at that time. And yet Alonso took that car to two back to back titles.
Click to expand...

Sorry, that's shit. The Renault was a phenomenal car. It was quick and it never broke down. If he's so good he can beat better cars in a shit one, where's he been the past three years? He did feck all in the Renault when he went back there, and he's hardly set the world alight this season, either.

wr8_utd said:
I love Mclaren. It's been my favorite team since Hakinnen was there and even more so when Kimi came but it's really been ruined thanks to Hamilton coming here.
Click to expand...

So you hate McLaren because Hamilton is there, but loved them before? Even though, to grab an example, both Senna AND Prost drove for McLaren? Senna being one of the greatest drivers to have ever lived, but also one of the dirtiest. Prost the same. That's fine, though.

wr8_utd said:
Agree with the fact that Alonso's become whiny but you can understand his frustrations at times.
Click to expand...

Not really; he's just a whiny little cnut who is letting his hatred of Hamilton get the better of him.
 
Count Duckula said:
Yeh, they openly supported Lewis. Or, shockingly, Alonso might just have been being a whiny little bitch because he expected to be numero uno and didn't like that someone was actually challenging him.
Click to expand...

"We weren’t racing Kimi, we were basically racing Fernando" - Ron Dennis after Chinese GP 2007. :angel:
 
R_Nick said:
"We weren’t racing Kimi, we were basically racing Fernando" - Ron Dennis after Chinese GP 2007. :angel:
Click to expand...

Now that's the kind of whole hearted support I would just love to hear from my boss when I was driving for the team.
 
In my defense, I don't hate him because he is English or successful. He worked hard for his success...I just find him to be smug.

Oh I also cant stand his post victory radio relay, yes I am clutching at straws :mad:

I don't mind arrogance, top sportsmen all over the world are arrogant, but he looks like a smug git, who needs to be punched in his imminently punchable face till he drops.

I am not an Alonso fan either, I don't have a problem with him spilling the beans at McLaren, or having a whinge yesterday, but he really does need to harden the feck up.

Strangely I am a big fan of Adrian Sutil, and Robert Kubica.
 
BTV_is_neutral said:
In my defense, I don't hate him because he is English or successful. He worked hard for his success...I just find him to be smug.

Oh I also cant stand his post victory radio relay, yes I am clutching at straws :mad:

I don't mind arrogance, top sportsmen all over the world are arrogant, but he looks like a smug git, who needs to be punched in his imminently punchable face till he drops.

I am not an Alonso fan either, I don't have a problem with him spilling the beans at McLaren, or having a whinge yesterday, but he really does need to harden the feck up.

Strangely I am a big fan of Adrian Sutil, and Robert Kubica.
Click to expand...

So true.

And talking of Kubica, he's a big talent but he just seems to have lost his way a bit.
 
Count Duckula said:
But Fernando burnt his own bridges in that team, no one else did it.
Click to expand...

Well yes but that wasn't really the point was it. I think its pretty clear that post Monaco 07 Lewis was favoured within the team. How far that favouritism went only those in the team will ever know, but it existed that's for damn sure.
 
R_Nick said:
Well yes but that wasn't really the point was it. I think its pretty clear that post Monaco 07 Lewis was favoured within the team. How far that favouritism went only those in the team will ever know, but it existed that's for damn sure.
Click to expand...

yup. Had it been fair and square Alonso would have taken the title.

But I'm happy Kimi did. Love the guy
 
R_Nick said:
So you don't think there was any favouritism in the McLaren garage at all in 07?
Click to expand...

Not to the extent that it cost Alonso the title. I think they made sure the same upgrades were on each car, the same equipment. They set the cars up the way the drivers wanted. It's just a very convenient excuse.
 
The thing I don't get is Ferrari and Alonso keep saying now that they "didn't get the points they should have done" from Valencia, but I fail to see their point?

If Hamilton is punished earlier, and therefore drops to the back of the grid, then Alonso gains one place. ONE. All of this talk that Hamilton's move cost them the race is utter shit - Alonso would have gained a single place by Hamilton being punished more quickly, and would still have finished seventh.

di Montezemolo said:
Ferrari, which showed itself to be competitive in the European Grand Prix, paid a price that was too high for respecting the rules.
Click to expand...

Alonso said:
It completely destroyed the race. We finished ninth, he finished second so there is something to think about.
Click to expand...

Domenicali said:
We are very angry because we didn't get the points that we should have got from this race. Hamilton was not respecting the line for the safety car. And then we had a delay from the decision which affected Ferrari very heavily.
Click to expand...

They all seem to think that had Hamilton been punished quicker, or even not overtaken the safety car at all, that they'd have somehow finished much higher on the grid, despite still being stuck behind the safety car. Weirdos :wenger:
 
Ive not said it did cost him the title, nor attempted to make excuses for anything. I've simply pointed out that there was a clear as day team favourite.
 
R_Nick said:
Ive not said it did cost him the title, nor attempted to make excuses for anything. I've simply pointed out that there was a clear as day team favourite.
Click to expand...

I don't think any Hamilton fan which I am one would disagree. But to me its no different to what even golden boy himself got at Renault, Schumi at Ferrari and even with Vettel now at Red Bull.
 
Here's a really interesting article on the whole Hamilton/Alonso thing from this last race, although it has to be taken with a little pinch of salt because it's the BBC and, therefore, British:

BBC Sport - F1 - Hamilton v Alonso fight reignites

BBC Sport said:
A furious Fernando Alonso suggested the European Grand Prix result had been "manipulated".

The Ferrari driver believed the Lewis Hamilton safety car-line incident and the subsequent ineffective drive-through penalty notified 15 laps after Hamilton had committed the offence - and served three laps after that - was a travesty.

But emotion was clouding Alonso's judgement.

When you look beneath the surface, examine the incident and its implications step by step, the explanations are rather more mundane than a conspiracy against Alonso and Ferrari.

The Spaniard's anger was understandable, in that he had obeyed the rules and effectively been punished while Hamilton broke them and effectively got off scot-free because the penalty did not cost him a place.

Before the incident Alonso had been in third place, pressuring Hamilton hard, and afterwards the Ferrari driver was back in a disastrous 11th place, his home race ruined at a crucial time in the championship battle. Hamilton, meanwhile, remained in second place to the end.

The incident, involving as it did Hamilton, McLaren and the FIA's Charlie Whiting pressed all of Alonso's volatile emotion buttons.

There is history here: bad blood, and simmering resentment. The circumstances of Sunday just happened to conspire to bring it all to the surface again and elements within Ferrari poured fuel onto the fire.

Alonso's emotions are an intrinsic part of what makes him such a very great driver.

They are the fire within him and they have combined with a great racing brain and a brutally competitive soul to give us moments like passing Michael Schumacher around the outside of 130R, apex speed 208mph, at the 2005 Japanese Grand Prix.

They and his fantastic gift are the raw material of his two world titles.

But, like all of the drivers, Alonso has an Achilles' heel.

It took the speed of a rookie called Hamilton and then team principal Ron Dennis's overbearing condescension in 2007 to reveal it.

Were it not for Hamilton, Alonso would probably now still be at McLaren as a four-time champion and pitching for a fifth.

Instead, he has had to endure two barren years in second-rate cars and now is having to build up his momentum all over again.

His reaction to Hamilton often being slightly faster caused him to blow a fuse. To him it did not compute, and the way Dennis handled that situation made things much worse. In the aftermath of Hungary '07, their relationship was dead and any possibility of the originally envisioned mutual long-term future was over.

In 2006 - before joining McLaren - Alonso was given a ridiculous penalty in qualifying at Monza for supposedly delaying Felipe Massa's Ferrari and the target of Alonso's ire in the aftermath of that was race director Charlie Whiting.

That was the previous occasion on which Alonso publically announced that F1 was not a sport, just a business.

It was Whiting who handled the safety car and penalty situation at Valencia on Sunday - but on this occasion, when looked at in detail, it is clear he acted absolutely correctly and that Alonso and Ferrari were simply unfortunate.

Whiting scrambled the safety car and medical car as soon as he saw Mark Webber's Red Bull airborne at a point on the circuit where the cars are travelling at about 190mph.

The safety car's job in this situation was to escort the medical car to the scene of the accident at turn 12. It exited the pit lane which funnels into Turn One just as Hamilton and Alonso were coming through that corner.

On seeing the safety car to his right, Hamilton's instinctive reaction was to lift off. He then realised that actually they had yet to reach the safety car line, so he accelerated again.

Had it not been for that momentary hesitation, Hamilton would have passed the safety car before the line and thereby been allowed to make for the pits at racing speed, so long as he acted accordingly to the yellow flags at the accident site.

But he just failed to reach the line before the safety car - and according to the rules should then have remained behind the safety car.

Hamilton says he realised it was a close call but was not sure if he'd passed before the line or after it. He chose to race to the pits at racing speed.

Alonso witnessed the whole thing, was certain Hamilton has transgressed and spent much of his race radioing the team that they should press the matter with Whiting.

Whiting was primarily concerned with attending to the Webber accident.

There is the option of having the safety car wave cars past until it picks up the leader but it is not a regulatory requirement.

Whiting adjudged that escorting the medical car was the priority - without regard to which competitors it affected - and so no-one was waved through until after the accident site.

This lost Alonso 21 seconds and nine places to Hamilton, as those cars that had pitted the previous lap - because they had not reached the pit-entry road when the safety car was deployed - lost way less time.

Upon the resumption of racing, it took seven laps before it was announced that Hamilton was under investigation and a further four before the drive-through penalty was confirmed.

The penalty has to be served within three laps of notification so Hamilton therefore had a total of 13 laps in which to pull out a big gap on those behind, meaning that he did not even lose his second place as he took the penalty.

Only once the Webber incident had been cleared and the race restarted could Whiting begin looking at the Hamilton incident. In determining whether an offence had been committed he had a few key difficulties.

There was no timekeeping loop at that part of the track, so the evidence was going to rely on footage and the transponders of each car - Hamilton's and the safety car - as they crossed the safety car line.

The in-car footage from Hamilton was far from decisive in that it was such a close call that the angle of the view could not support a conclusion. He then ordered aerial footage from the official Formula 1 Management helicopter - and this took some time to be found.

The complication of the transponders in the two cars was that they were almost certainly at differing lengths from the frontal extremities of each car, so Whiting was seeking this information too. Only once he had all this compiled did he feel confident in confirming that an offence had taken place.

At this point, he could have chosen a harsher penalty that would have had a greater detrimental effect on Hamilton's position. But the precedent for this offence is a drive-through. It is not in the regulations, but is at the race director's discretion.

Whiting was reluctant to subjectively apply a different penalty - because doing that would establish a new precedent: that the outcome of the race should be at the whim of whatever the race director wished it to be. Then every decision he made would be liable to be seen as 'manipulation'.

What happened on Sunday was the opposite of manipulation: just a systematic, consistent response that took no account of who suffered or who gained. Under the circumstances that applied, it was absolutely correct.

Perhaps a new regulation should be established now to empower Whiting to apply a more fitting penalty for this offence in future.

But there was absolutely no evidence at Valencia of manipulation; quite the contrary.
Click to expand...
 
To this day, I'm still stunned at Alonso for the way he reacted back in his McClaren year. At the time he was the two time World Champion, he let a rookie driver feck his head in, all because he was as fast as him from the off. The thing that stuns me is that World Champions usually don't have a flaw like that. If Schumacher had endured such a moment, would be bitch about it and as the article says, eventually condemn himself to seasons in an uncompetitive car? Or would he have upped his game and proved he was the champion in the team? Now I'm no lover of Schumacher, but there's a different level being deployed there

This weekend doesn't surprise me, I really don't think it's bias to say Hamilton was pretty unlucky with the timing of the safety car, it was a borderline decision, and that moments hesitation is what cost him a penalty - if he's driven at normal race speed it wouldn't have been an issue. For Alonso to clearly be so affected by that, when it made no difference to him, he'd have been stuck behind the safety car regardless... it just sums his small time mentality up for me. And it's the reason I'd question, unless he has an absolutely dominant car and a much inferior team mate, whether he can ever be World Champion again. That youthful brilliance has turned to bitter resentment, and it's hard to come back form that
 
I agree with you completely re Hamilton's part, Brad, he was unlucky and his hesitance cost him the penalty, you are absolutely right.

But I can, to a degree, see why Alonso and Ferrari are pissed off about what happened. If Hamilton had stopped behind the safety car then he'd have been in the same boat as Alonso and his race would have suffered for it, but because he didn't stop and then race control took such a crazy amount of time to penalise him he's managed to retain second place. From Alonso's POV his title rival has managed to retain position and finish with a bundle more points than him because of what ensued.

However, what I will say is that Alonso and Ferrari both need to shut the hell up about it, because at the end of the day, when a SC is deployed it can make or break your race and it's total pot luck as to how it affects any given person. The fact that Hamilton did end up breaking a rule doesn't really alter that fact all that much.
 
He served the drive through penalty, i don't see the problem here. Timing is down to the FIA and the explanation of focusing on getting the Webber incident cleared up makes complete sense rather than prioritising the Hamilton incident.

When you think about it, if Hamilton hadn't have hesitated then Alonso would have been in the position of Hamilton and would have had to made the call of going ahead or sitting behind the SC.

Alonso & Ferrari are all working off a huge what if & that if a penalty was applied they would have finished ahead (given that there was over half a race to go and there was no huge race pace advantage with the Ferrari's).

The only real highlight in this saga is how much bitterness that Alonso still has for McLaren/Hamilton. His team radio transmissions on Sunday was cringe worthy at times, concentrating more on trying to get other teams in trouble than focusing on his own race. His head wasn't there whatsoever & shown more with Kobayashi overtaking him on the final lap.

All in all, its a non-story. It screams more about Ferrari & Alonso's paranoia to try to cover up the fact that their car was probably the most competitive it had been in a long time & they didn't capitalise and put in the performance. With updates for other teams planned for Silverstone, they're going to be battling for the top 10 in Q3.
 
Yeah should be a good one, the new section looks great even though one of my favorite corners: Bridge is now cut out. The McLaren's bringing the blown exhaust concept too, still fancy a Red Bull win though, its gonna be hard to beat through maggotts and becketts and stowe.

Suprised Senna is dropped, he has heavy backing.
 
Yeah can't wait. I've noticed a few stories on the BBC site of people (mainly Damon Hill and Mark Webber) trying to stir up shit between Lewis and Jenson.
 
The Red Bull is so much faster its almost not worth thinking about tomorrow, unless it rains they will run and hide.
 
I get annoyed with his fascination of waving his index finger about after qualifying too
 
So predictions today?

1. Vettel
2. Hamilton
3. Alonso

I hope i'm spectacularly wrong.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.