I was watching online not having a working TV here yet, and had to minimise the screen to post in this thread while the safety car was out, which might explain why I've not heard it if he has said something
The F1 Thread 2009 Season
- Thread starter Leg-End
- Start date
That is pure hatred.
Hatred?
Strange guy
Why is it this particular thread is laced with retards?
Raikkonen couldn't have done anything else than drive around and did he actually gain a place as you speak? Is there a replay anywhere, so we can actually fully judge on this particular issue.
When the safety car comes out, everything goes into chaos - how could anyone predict what will happen?
Because if you pit your man just before it, then intentionally crash your other driver, it's everyone else that's affected by the chaos, and your man moves to the head of the field
Pretty scandalous if true, would be some recriminations for Renault. You'd have thought they might have treated Piquet a bit better knowing he could come out with this down the line too
That particular conspiracy theory did the rounds in the immidiate aftermath of the race, it's pretty far fetched to be honest.
I suppose this kind of topsy turvy season is what fans have been wanting, no cars have dominated for more than a few races (bar the Brawns at the start). Its certainly fun watching. And well done Raikoned, nice overtake.
Onboards of the starts, some pretty interesting points to made. The Brawn even without KERS is mega in a straight line, Grosjean clearly wipes out Button and Kimi had no real reason for taking to the slip road and clearly overtook atleast 2 cars in doing so. I am not saying he should have been penalised but in my view he clearly gained by doing so.
@ Barichello, just cuts around a chicane and gains atleast 2 or 3 places and doesn't even get noticed.I think the on board view of Raikonnen shows he had some clear intentions of utilising that slip road & not to take the first corner. Whether or not that gave him the ability to shoot past 2 cars with his KERS system is up for discussion
Precisely. If he takes the corner normally, which he should do because there was nothing stopping him from doing so, he'd come out in 4th. But he takes the slip road, comes back on in 3rd, and the greater run he's had also allows him to breeze into 2nd
But he wasn't penalised, it's no surprise. If that's the precedent fine, but you know damn well if it's a Ferrari rival it's a different ball game
I recall that I read somewhere that the drivers agreed it was OK to use that tarmac in the first corner of the race if the situation called for it. Can't seem to find it though.
Ok CB, well find it, and then disregard it, because Raikkonen's situation didn't call for it!
Barrichello did exactly the same thing Brad, so don't be daft.
I didn't see what Barrichello did, I thought he just dropped to the back of the field?
Anti stall kicked in at the start and he had a really slow get away, but he was still ahead of Badoer () and some others.
When he got to turn 1 he had a few cars to his right, just like Kimi, and drove wide onto the run off area.
EDIT: ignore me I'm a spastic, just watched it again and it was Button, still went wide though.
) and some others.When he got to turn 1 he had a few cars to his right, just like Kimi, and drove wide onto the run off area.
EDIT: ignore me I'm a spastic, just watched it again and it was Button, still went wide though.
Button was avoiding the spinning car to be fair
He was further away from that than Kimi was from Trulli.
Kimi was nowhere near Trulli, he didn't near to take the escape
I can't recall the Button start, but I think you're within your rights to go wide to avoid an out of control car if that's the case!
Marginal if that, plus alongside that spinning car was Nakagima
The first picture there is Kimi, the second is Button, I know who has the clearer track in my eyes.
Yeah Kimi had all the room in the world to stay on track eh?
He'd have been up on the curb and taking it a little grass, but ay course he can make the turn
What he certainly can do, having taken the escape, is concede the position back
But the laws are different for Ferrari and have been for a long time now
What he certainly can do, having taken the escape, is concede the position back
But the laws are different for Ferrari and have been for a long time now
I think some of you are missing the point, Kimi went off track for no other reason than running abit wide and then not wanting to back off and take the normal route, if that run off area was a wall he would have either been in it or backed off and maybe lost a few positions. I believe Button went wide to avoid the Williams which was in turn avoiding the spinner.
Personally I wouldnt penalise Kimi for that simply because its a grey area and its been done in the past, if the FIA had said if you run wide and gain an advantage you will get punished fair enough, they didnt.
Personally I wouldnt penalise Kimi for that simply because its a grey area and its been done in the past, if the FIA had said if you run wide and gain an advantage you will get punished fair enough, they didnt.
The next frame (or that I can manage to pause quick enough!) after the Kimi pic I already posted above, which shows that with the line the other cars took (pretty evident where they were heading from the first picture) if Kimi had not gone where he went he'd have been driving along the grass like Brad says above.
It is usual for drivers to go over the grass and onto the other side of it when this is the case, as he did here, as Jenson did behind him, and as Hamilton did in 2007. I'm sorry Brad, I agree with a lot of what you say, but in this instance I don't think Kimi did anything wrong. In fact if you look at the angle he's at in this second picture, he is driving a hell of a wider line than everyone else.
I feel the need to take a look back at Hamiltons start 2007
I watched the onboard and he clearly goes to take the normal line and all of a sudden Alonso chops across forcing him off the track. Kimi this year chose to go wide because he would have lost time if he did not, not because he had to avoid an incident.
I watched the onboard and he clearly goes to take the normal line and all of a sudden Alonso chops across forcing him off the track. Kimi this year chose to go wide because he would have lost time if he did not, not because he had to avoid an incident.
So by that logic....Don't avoid a racing collision until you're pretty much in a racing collision, and only then take measures to avoid said collision?
Yeh the comparison to the Hamilton incident is daft, he was essentially forced off the road
Use Leg-ends wall theory in both circumstances. Kimi can back off if there's a wall there, and take the corner fine. He'd just lose a few places. Hamilton is gunna get sandwiched right into the concrete
Irrespective, Kimi DID go off the road, which he's entitled to do if he feels its necessary. But he can't then gain an advantage. And he did. Others have been punished for not conceding the place back. Kimi should have too
Use Leg-ends wall theory in both circumstances. Kimi can back off if there's a wall there, and take the corner fine. He'd just lose a few places. Hamilton is gunna get sandwiched right into the concrete
Irrespective, Kimi DID go off the road, which he's entitled to do if he feels its necessary. But he can't then gain an advantage. And he did. Others have been punished for not conceding the place back. Kimi should have too
Incorrect, Kimi wouldn't have hit anyone had he took the normal line, but he would have been slower out of the corner, there is a difference.
Thats a nice spin on things Leg-end, but lets take what you said in your earlier post regards to Kimi's taking of the corner, you said he was:
"running abit wide and then not wanting to back off and take the normal route, if that run off area was a wall he would have either been in it or backed off and maybe lost a few positions"
In 07 Hamilton started 4th on the grid behind Alonso in 3rd, running down to turn 1 Hamilton braked later, going from clearly behind him here:
To alongside/just ahead of him here:
Now the problem with this is that he actually left it too late, and when they arrived at the corner he was left of the racing line, which was the line Alonso was quite rightly taking (as well as Raikkonen and Massa as you can see from the picture you posted).
Now the picture you posted shows them side by side, your inference being that Alonso barged him, whereas I think Alonso was on the racing line, and Lewis was trying to get back onto it from a wide position as he had effectively out braked himself. If he had done as you suggested Kimi had done, and backed off, he would not have found himself in that position. For what its worth I don't think he should have backed off, he did the right thing in taking to the run off area.
Here we see him taking to the run off area:
And then he comes back onto the track in the same place as Kimi did!
"running abit wide and then not wanting to back off and take the normal route, if that run off area was a wall he would have either been in it or backed off and maybe lost a few positions"
In 07 Hamilton started 4th on the grid behind Alonso in 3rd, running down to turn 1 Hamilton braked later, going from clearly behind him here:
To alongside/just ahead of him here:
Now the problem with this is that he actually left it too late, and when they arrived at the corner he was left of the racing line, which was the line Alonso was quite rightly taking (as well as Raikkonen and Massa as you can see from the picture you posted).
Now the picture you posted shows them side by side, your inference being that Alonso barged him, whereas I think Alonso was on the racing line, and Lewis was trying to get back onto it from a wide position as he had effectively out braked himself. If he had done as you suggested Kimi had done, and backed off, he would not have found himself in that position. For what its worth I don't think he should have backed off, he did the right thing in taking to the run off area.
Here we see him taking to the run off area:
And then he comes back onto the track in the same place as Kimi did!
Funny you say I have spun it yet I think you have spun it, Alonso takes the normal racing line, correct, but this is the race start and he knows Lewis is there and other race track a chop like that ends in the wall or in the gravel trap.
I don't even know why we are arguing about it to be honest, both times were deemed legal and I am fine with that, I just feel the need to point out the Hamilton's in 2007 was very different to Kimi's this season.
But I dont think we will ever agree on that.
I don't even know why we are arguing about it to be honest, both times were deemed legal and I am fine with that, I just feel the need to point out the Hamilton's in 2007 was very different to Kimi's this season.
But I dont think we will ever agree on that.
Then we'll agree to disagree, I don't want this to go like the penalty thread in the main forum!! But regarding the point about if it was a different track, I dare say they all know that and if it was a different track they'd all act differently.
Because the internet is serious business!!
No, you are right in that they are not the same, and I was happy with both of them too.
It was a good race yesterday, just wish I'd put my bet on for the win rather than each way
Lets just shut up then and ignore Brad if he goes on about it
Monza next.......
Monza next.......
That's a fair way to wrap this one up I guess!Monza, and Button needs to be competitive. You know given other teams are more competitive than them and Red Bull now, but too far back to do anything, I fancy Button doesn't actually need than many more points for the title. I reckon maybe even just 1 more win could pull him over, but certainly 2. Just getting himself ahead of his team mate would be a good start!
Still think he's the heavy heavy favourite, what a position to be in
feck me, I can't believe we just managed to move past that so easily, we should take over Planet-F1 and shut the whole fecking site down, them crazy bastards could argue over black and white!!
On to Monza, and god I wish I was going again, I bloody love that place. I actually think the Force India's could be very strong again there, its a power circuit and should follow on nicely from Spa. McLaren are usually good there, so it will be interesting to see what they do there.
Red Bull's engine department must be shitting house bricks right now, Vettel is onto engine number 8 for Monza, and my god will it take some abuse!!
Should be an interesting weekend
On to Monza, and god I wish I was going again, I bloody love that place. I actually think the Force India's could be very strong again there, its a power circuit and should follow on nicely from Spa. McLaren are usually good there, so it will be interesting to see what they do there.
Red Bull's engine department must be shitting house bricks right now, Vettel is onto engine number 8 for Monza, and my god will it take some abuse!!
Should be an interesting weekend
I agree with you Brad, I reckon if Button can get to the 90 point mark he will be champion mainly because the wins are now being shared out abit and I cant see Red Bull or Barrichello taking the rest of the wins which the really need to do. All Jenson needs is a solid podium position and he is back in business.
Monza is going to be a McLaren track I fancy, KERS out of the two chicanes and massive straightline speed and their good mechanical grip out of the slow stuff, Hamilton for the win. Brawn should be up there with Force India and Kimi too.
Monza is going to be a McLaren track I fancy, KERS out of the two chicanes and massive straightline speed and their good mechanical grip out of the slow stuff, Hamilton for the win. Brawn should be up there with Force India and Kimi too.
If Button wins the championship, whilst great for him, it'll show what a joke Formula One is swiftly becoming.
Why is that?