I like this.
The F1 Thread 2008 Season
- Thread starter RedNome
- Start date
I like this.
I'm not saying its all down to the engine, as Force India show its what you then do with it. But the Red Bull is using a Renault engine, and clearly given they are the A team, they're not doing as good a job getting the most out of theirs. There was talk earlier this season of Torro Rosso being sold off or disbanded, now its outperforming the Red Bull I dunno where all that stands!
http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/70017
Vettal is a driver with great ability, everyone is in agreement. But if he was able to drive away from a McClaren, clearly he's got a good car under him. Hence the ability to record 6 top 8 finishes this season already (in fact only twice has the Torro Rosso in Vettals hands finished outside the top 8, all the rest have been retirements)
I'm not downplaying his victory, it was fantastic. Kovaleinen didn't come out of it looking too clever, lets put it that way. It's a shame the weather did for Hamilton because that would have been a brilliant end to the race, and we'd really have seen the truely tested ability of Vettal. Would he be able to keep a faster car behind him or not?
It arguably was the drive of the season, I'd put Hamiltons drive in Germany up there, along with Sutil at Monaco
Outside of Hamilton, i'd put Vettel as the most impressive young driver out there.
Granted he has not been in the same machinery as Hamilton but he has been consistently outperforming his 3 time world champ CART driver for a team mate.
Personally i'd love to see him in a top car as i reckon he's one of the very few that can challenge Hamilton in the years to come.
The Ferrari drivers seem pretty fecking useless thats for sure.
I havn't seen his victory as i'm a bit disheartened about F1 at the minute
Congrats to Vettel though i'm genuinely happy for the lad
Granted he has not been in the same machinery as Hamilton but he has been consistently outperforming his 3 time world champ CART driver for a team mate.
Personally i'd love to see him in a top car as i reckon he's one of the very few that can challenge Hamilton in the years to come.
The Ferrari drivers seem pretty fecking useless thats for sure.
I havn't seen his victory as i'm a bit disheartened about F1 at the minute
Congrats to Vettel though i'm genuinely happy for the lad
Totally agree. Hopefully we will see a rivalry over the next decade similar to the good old days of Mansell/Piquet/Prost.
Massa looks pretty decent to me, better than i had expected. Kimi is clearly an excellent driver, just doesnt seem interested at the moment.
(im not a Ferrari fan btw)
McLaren and Hamilton will find out tomorrow/today if his appeal has been successful or not in overturning the Spa result. Apparently was a 5 hour hearing, but I still don't hold out much hope for him.
Apparently, when asked on his view of the incident by the Ferrari lawyer, Hamilton responded: "Are you a racing driver? I've been racing since I was eight, and I know every single move in the book. That's what makes me the best in the world at my job." Such unbelievable arrogance!
Being only one point ahead in a vastly superior car, and throwing away the championship when he was odds-on to win last season suggests that perhaps he isn't as almightily brilliant as he thinks he is.
To be Keegan-esque, I would feckin' love it if he failed to win the championship this year. Love it. Sadly, I just can't see that happening, and I suspect the media (and the British public as a whole) will spend all winter sucking Hamilton's dick. I don't like arrogant sportsmen, and I really don't like arrogant English sportsmen. It's just not our style, and I despise them.
Being only one point ahead in a vastly superior car, and throwing away the championship when he was odds-on to win last season suggests that perhaps he isn't as almightily brilliant as he thinks he is.
To be Keegan-esque, I would feckin' love it if he failed to win the championship this year. Love it. Sadly, I just can't see that happening, and I suspect the media (and the British public as a whole) will spend all winter sucking Hamilton's dick. I don't like arrogant sportsmen, and I really don't like arrogant English sportsmen. It's just not our style, and I despise them.
To be fair, Kovaleinen is an absolute waste of space. He's appalling. He's got some speed, but not bags of it (Hamilton nails him every single race) and he's totally gutless. He'd rather sit behind a slower car for seventy laps than actually try and overtake it.
I cannot believe that McLaren actually extended his contract. There must be someone out there worth a punt, like Vettel or Kubica. But then Ron Denis adores his Finns, doesn't he? Only difference here is that his last two Finns were actually pretty decent drivers.
I'm not particularly impressed with Kovaleinen, then again I was suprised McClaren went for him in the first place. I think he'll have to up his game severly next season to retain his drive long term. He's lucky he has a team meat delivering victories and leading the Championship, taking much of the focus and pressure off him
You keep going on about McClaren having a vastly superior car. I'm not sure there's any justification for such a claim. Are you suggesting Massa is driving the hell out of his car, whilst Hamilton isn't making the most of his 'advantage'? I don't think so. There's no saying the Ferrari is being driven to its potential either, much like Kovaleinen isn't getting the most out of his McClaren. feck knows what's going on with Kimi, but he's much better than he's showing. Massa has never previously got the most out of his car, so who says he's doing it now?
Anyway, that court decision should be made anytime soon....
Prat.
From Autosport:
Yes, he's he is a bit up himself, but for someone of his talents his explanation sounds reasonable to me. Being top of the drivers standings in F1, widely considered to be the pinaccle of motorsport, despite his rival team being favoured by the powers that be, could suggest he is the best driver. And don't forget he's been constantly told from a young age how wonderful he is so he's probably going to believe it.
I don't care if Hamilton is full of himself, he's incredibly talented and is within a shout of wining the WDC, and he's from this country. Get behind him. It's so typical of British people to see the negative side of the likes of Hamilton, Murray etc. to the extent that they want them to fail.
Michael Schumacher was just as convinced of his own genius as Hamilton, but that didn't stop legions of Ferrari fans from gushing over his every turn of the wheel. We should cherish talents like Hamilton.
Prat.
That's class.
Nearly as good as him saying he will never get overtaken around the outside again for Massa to actually go and do it again. He is also a wet weather specialist now and recently said Raikkonen didn't have the balls to brake late enough - avoiding the fact that there is something wrong with the Ferrari.
Hype at its best but he is a talented driver so I hope he keeps his feet on the ground and keeps working away. Schumi was a class driver but he was also one of the most hard-working and fittest sportsmen on the grid.
Hearing rumours his appeal has been rejected. Rumours though I stress.
The appeal has been rejected according to beeb.
BBC ticker: MOTORSPORT: McLaren's appeal over Lewis Hamilton's penalty has been rejected as inadmissable by the FIA.
Yup it's official, appeal has been rejected.
Big surprise there then.
Yes, but he didn't say he was one of the best drivers in the world, did he? He said he was the best driver in the world. And then went on in a separate incident to be incredibly dismissive and rude about Ferrari's racing heritage. Now, I don't really like Ferrari -- I always used to support McLaren (I loved Hakkinen, Raikkonen, even Alonso!), but I don't like Hamilton's attitude. Now, he might be getting some stick from me here because I don't think English sportsmen should be arrogant, even if all the other competitors are, but that's life I'm afraid. I doubt he cares too much that I want him to fail, and I doubt my wanting is going to affect him much.
And why should I support him just because he's British? Why should I support Murray because he's British? It's so typical of British people to rally behind someone born in this country purely because they were born in this country. I have no more ties to Hamilton than I do Alonso, or Massa. And he has no ties to me. These aren't football players playing for England, or the national rugby team, or Team GB at the Olympics. He's not representing Britain, he's representing himself. And when he's representing himself then I have to look upon him as just another sportsman, and therefore pick my favourite. Which is generally not the one who's an arrogant, stuck up prick, regardless of how talented that one may be.
Alright, I'll say this now because I think people are getting just a tiny bit carried away here: Lewis Hamilton is not as good as Michael Schumacher. Schumacher is probably one of the best (if not the best) racing driver who ever lived. He can still get in the car and set faster lap times than anyone currently racing, and I think it'll be a long time until we see someone of his like again.
And that's not to say I like Schumacher particularly, either. He was convinced of his genius, too, although I'd say not in such an arrogant way, but he was also a cheat. And I don't like cheats, either. But people rightly disliked Schumacher for his antics, they didn't turn a blind eye to them or, worse, actually praise his disrespect.
All along the appeal was inadmissible.
Trouble is appealing a drive through penalty isn't allowed - its the same rule in football where you can't appeal the ref's final decision as its binding - unless you're John Terry.
McLaren tried going ahead with it by saying a drive through penalty was never actually undertaken but the FIA wasn't having any of it - a good get out clause for them!
All this fuss and it was never even going to get to the juicy bit - fecking funny
Trouble is appealing a drive through penalty isn't allowed - its the same rule in football where you can't appeal the ref's final decision as its binding - unless you're John Terry.
McLaren tried going ahead with it by saying a drive through penalty was never actually undertaken but the FIA wasn't having any of it - a good get out clause for them!
All this fuss and it was never even going to get to the juicy bit - fecking funny
You imagine if Massa wins the title by 2 or 3 points.
As for Lewis I don't like him because he's British I like him because he is by far the most exciting and best driver out there on the track at the moment. He maybe be arrogant but he's that damn good
As for Lewis I don't like him because he's British I like him because he is by far the most exciting and best driver out there on the track at the moment. He maybe be arrogant but he's that damn good
I still reckon the whole incident was just racing and the punishment for the offence, such as there may have been one, was way over the top.
There's no winners. Every single person looks bad in this.
It's hard to sympathise with Hamilton though. His driving is first class, but he's a cheeky little pup - having gone from being sickeningly saccharine and saying it was all a dream 12 months ago, to now blowing his own trumpet at every opportunity and making Prince Naseem Hamed look like Paul Scholes. I think someone should have a word in his shell-like. He may like the sound of his own voice, but he's doing himself no favours with the classless shite talk.
There's no winners. Every single person looks bad in this.
It's hard to sympathise with Hamilton though. His driving is first class, but he's a cheeky little pup - having gone from being sickeningly saccharine and saying it was all a dream 12 months ago, to now blowing his own trumpet at every opportunity and making Prince Naseem Hamed look like Paul Scholes. I think someone should have a word in his shell-like. He may like the sound of his own voice, but he's doing himself no favours with the classless shite talk.
I think we should remember that this was all said in a highly charged courtroom where Hamilton was put up against the wall by Ferrari's lawyer. He has to be agressive in what he says to stand up to the guy and win his appeal. I think if you sat Hamilton down in a wine bar he might not make such outlandish claims; he said what was needed to be said to try and justify his manouvers at Spa. Hamilton has probably been advised to use his position as a top driver to his advantage over this fat Italian attourney.
Fair enough, you can support sporting figures on your own terms.
But we've seen signs this year of the written press turning against him after a few mid-season errors - the same newspapers who were hailing him as a national hero last year. When he was winning, Hamilton's personality was one of 'supreme confidence'. When he was losing it had turned to 'brash arrogance'. But it had always been the same Hamilton.
This perhaps sums up the British attitude more than anything, particularly in our media - build them up to knock them down. It's cowardly and hypocritical. Just ask David Beckham about all that.
I wasn't suggesting that Hamilton is at Schumi's level at all. I'm saying that it is a tad hypocritical for Ferrari's fans to pile into Hamilton for having the same high opinion of himself that their one-time hero also had. They never complained about Schumi's attitude.
Schumacher was arrogant enough to think that he could cheat and get away with it, on numerous occasions. That's far worse in my eyes than a cocksure rookie claiming to be the "best driver". Relatively speaking, you could argue that he is.
No, possibly not. But we won't know how he ranks until his career has finished. At this stage of his career, he's come into Formula One, and in his first season, he's led the World Championship for the majority, and finished ahead of his team mate, the then World Champion and 'best since Schumacher' Fernando Alonso. Alonso who beat Schumacher the year previous, despite a vastly inferior car towards the latter end of that season. That is incredible, it just doesn't happen. Evidently his talent puts him up in that kind of quality bracket potentially, if he makes the most of it. Which makes the bitterness of these anti-Hamilton folk so laughable. People don't get more arrogant than Schumacher, and when he does it its all part of his brilliance. When Hamilton does it, he's an overated shit who you wish failure on?! Typical small minded British attitude towards a major talent of our own
The anticipated ruling that the appeal was inadmissable. It would have been nice to know whether they'd have found in favour of the FIA or McClaren on the evidence presented, but I guess we'll never know. Its a sad (yet normal) day when F1 is decided in the courts. Why is the worlds most expensive sport being offciated by a different set of unpaid amatuer stewards each race?! Utter farce. I hope for Massa's sake, if he does win this World Championship, he does it by more points that this ruling has bought him, because it taints his victory otherwise, which isn't fair to him
I love the fact that Lewis gets under people's skin, fecking love it. His comments are arrogant and I would be exactly the same, if I was that good I would be swaggering around the paddock like I owned the place. People who watch F1 should know that most of the drivers are boring, lifeless characters whilst around the paddock, maybe away from it they are great. I like the competitiveness Hamilton brings and he makes some people hate him and others love him.
The appeal decision, ah well was a long shot. One of the posters above mentions 'Being only one point ahead in a vastly superior car', yeah right ok mate, compare points tally's with his team mate, and then actually go back and watch the races from round 1. Melbourne was the only race he had a 'vastly superior car', and even then it looked better because Ferrari were useless. Ferrari and McLaren both have strong and weak points, neither is superior. I think its a case of the old 'oh he only wins cause he is in the best car', and thats a sign of greatness aged 23.
Personally I think Ferrari suit the final races from now on and Hamilton is up against it big time, but throughout his whole career he has never gone 2 years without a championship win.
The appeal decision, ah well was a long shot. One of the posters above mentions 'Being only one point ahead in a vastly superior car', yeah right ok mate, compare points tally's with his team mate, and then actually go back and watch the races from round 1. Melbourne was the only race he had a 'vastly superior car', and even then it looked better because Ferrari were useless. Ferrari and McLaren both have strong and weak points, neither is superior. I think its a case of the old 'oh he only wins cause he is in the best car', and thats a sign of greatness aged 23.
Personally I think Ferrari suit the final races from now on and Hamilton is up against it big time, but throughout his whole career he has never gone 2 years without a championship win.
Firstly, he didn't finish ahead of Alonso at all. And the fact is there that when they first joined the team Hamilton was much, much more used to the car than Alonso was. Once the Spaniard finally got to grips with the McLaren he was the better driver (as testified by the fact he scored more points than Hamilton in the second half of the season).
And I'm not bitter, I just don't like him. I have no reason to be bitter; he's never personally wronged me. I just don't like him, and I don't like watching people I don't like succeed. Just like I enjoyed watching Liverpool lose to AC Milan in the Champion's League final two years ago.
And the fact is Schumacher wasn't this arrogant when he first started. By the end, then yes, he probably was. He was, as Castolo says, arrogant enough to think that he could cheat and get away with it. Thank God he couldn't, because I don't like him (not as a driver, anyway -- as a retired personality he's alright), and to see him getting away with cheating would have been horrible. Though, having said that, his '94 win was the direct result of smashing into Damon Hill in the final race, an event he claims was an "accident" but to anyone with half a brain it clearly wasn't. But, back to my original point, he wasn't this big-headed at this stage of his career. He was never humble, sure, but he didn't get a kick out of pissing people off, and he didn't walk around like he owned the place. Not like Hamilton.
But perhaps I ought to rephrase: I don't always despise arrogance. Federer is arrogant, and I like him. Ronaldo is arrogant. Henry was arrogant. Alonso is arrogant. All four are sportsmen whom I like, though I'm sure I'd like them more were they not such stuck-up cocks. But the fact is those four have earned their arrogance. They've won things. As of yet Hamilton has won nothing. He threw away the championship last year, and he's in the process of throwing it away this year. I don't think he will do, and I think he'll hold on and be a Formula One champion, but then and only then can he start to justify the ludicrously big-head that he seems to carry with him everywhere.
This I agree with. And it's not just Formula One, either. More and more sports are seeing their final arbitrations happening in a court of law, but I suppose that's inevitable when you have so much hinging on one result. Football, Formula One, golf; all are huge entities now, far bigger than they ever were before. The amount of money and power flowing through them means that every decision has to be spot on, and every ruling will be contested. Gone are the days where a bloke in an anorak could make a ruling and people would stick by it.
Tozzi told Hamilton to "stop personalising" the issue as he was under instruction from Ferrari, who "know as much about Formula One as you do".
Hamilton responded: "With respect, I doubt it."
Well looks like he has burnt his bridges at Ferrari - Thank God.
Also reading comments that Hamilton is not has good has Schumacher , Hamilton is 23 years of age missed out on winning a WC by 1 point and has already won 9 races sorry 8 compared to Schumacher at the same time in his career had won 2. Is he going to be has good one cant tell but to say he wont is a little premature.
Hamilton is one of the reasons I have started watching the sport again , A F1 driver that can and does actually overtake and imagine next year with slicks and no aero bits all over the place. Lewis is a top class driver and shall become World Champion sooner rather than later.
Hamilton responded: "With respect, I doubt it."
Well looks like he has burnt his bridges at Ferrari - Thank God.
Also reading comments that Hamilton is not has good has Schumacher , Hamilton is 23 years of age missed out on winning a WC by 1 point and has already won 9 races sorry 8 compared to Schumacher at the same time in his career had won 2. Is he going to be has good one cant tell but to say he wont is a little premature.
Hamilton is one of the reasons I have started watching the sport again , A F1 driver that can and does actually overtake and imagine next year with slicks and no aero bits all over the place. Lewis is a top class driver and shall become World Champion sooner rather than later.
He doesn't even know that when the signal at the end of the pit lane is red, he is supposed to stop. Arrogant cnut...i felt that Lewis winning the Championship may be good for the sport but having read his comments, its better if Massa wins it.
As you just showed, Schumacher thought he could cheat and get away with it at a young age. And he was right! I was a massive Damon Hill fan, and I've never forgiven Schumacher. And why should I, as he continued to think through out his career he was above the law (and to be fair, with some of the decision making and governance, at time he was)
Your right, Hamilton and Alonso tied on points in second place last season. But all the standings list Hamilton second, is that done on count back of some kind? Or because he went into the last race leading? Perhaps even British bias eh! Whatever, he came in his first season, and was at least as fast if not faster than Alonso the then World Champion. Who felt so under threat he went looney, and eventually forced a move to an uncompetitive Renault team the next season instead
Incidently, it takes longer for the World Champion of his sport to get to grips with a different car than it does a guy in his rookie season? That alone speaks volume for the talent of the lad. I can understand people not liking him, but questioning his talent, which many on here do, claiming he's 'overated' and the like, is just ridiculous and makes them people like incredibly unknowledgable
To be fair to the lad, he said in court under cross examination that he was the best drived in F1. And a quick glance at the standings tells you he's right! In fact for the vast majority of the last 2 years, he's been leading his profession. I appreciate what you say about arrogance, in some cases its good, in others its bad. But we're too quick too see arrogance in our own nationality as bad. Its about time we gave it the spunk other nationalities do
Alonso was the world champion very experienced F1 driver and to end the season on the same point as him is some achievement. Didn't Lewis and Alonso start testing the 07 car together is so Lewis didn’t have a big advantage. Also Lewis had never been to allot of the tracks last year they were new to him in my opinion Alonso had the big advantage going in to the season.
Exactly, Alonso went into that team as a 2 time world champion against a rookie, albeit pretty obviously a talent. Lewis starting testing F1 late 2006 at Silverstone, I was there and he instantly looked fast when compared to others at the track that day. Alonso and Hamilton both tested the MP4-22 at the same time at Valencia I think, and Hamilton stacked it 180 mph backwards. But he made up alot of work in the simulator, but that does not substitute to the real thing.
The fact is Lewis was fast from race 1, and when he got to the new tracks he was incredible, I mean take Montreal as and example, never been there took his time before going out to FP1 and first lap he banged in he was fastest, I have never heard of a rookie doing that in F1. People need to realise he is a talent and actually give him some credit when its due rather than say 'oh he blew it', if it was anyone else they would not have even been in that position last season.
Kovalainen is getting uncessary stick too, I mean the guy is at the exact same stage as Hamilton in terms of F1 experience, its going to be tough when your team mate is abit special and I think in time he might be the man to actually go after Hamilton in the long term along with Vettel, Kubica, Rosberg and numerous drivers coming through like Senna and Buemi.
Oh, I'm not denying Hamilton's talent. Not once have I done that. The only thing I've said in regards to his talent is that he's not as good as Schumacher. Considering no one else in the history of motor racing has been, either, then that's hardly a real criticism. I have said that he's not better than the other drivers by the lengths some of you seem to believe, but again, that's not disregarding his talent, merely saying the others are more skilled than you guys appear to think.
He's very, very skilled. I just don't like him.
(And Leg-End: your list of drivers is comprehensive, and I do think that they'll make up the next generation of racers competing in Formula One. But people have all seem to have written off Alonso, as if he's passed his peak. He's still young for gawd's sake! I wouldn't be surprised to see him win at least one more championship, probably when he replaces Kimi at Ferrari in a year or two.)
He's very, very skilled. I just don't like him.
(And Leg-End: your list of drivers is comprehensive, and I do think that they'll make up the next generation of racers competing in Formula One. But people have all seem to have written off Alonso, as if he's passed his peak. He's still young for gawd's sake! I wouldn't be surprised to see him win at least one more championship, probably when he replaces Kimi at Ferrari in a year or two.)
Yeah your right, I think he has been around for so long you tend to overlook him. Contrary to many Brits I actually like Alonso, I don't listen to what he says off the track because he tends to speak some bulshit abit too often but once he is on the track he is the kind of racer I love to watch. I think he can quite easily carry on at the top until he is 33-34 and I really hope we get to see a Alonso vs Hamilton battle again sometime in the future.
Out of all the drivers currently on the grid the only one who can match Hamilton for talent and ability is, in my opinion, Alonso. The rest may be good, but they're not quite at Hamilton's level (Kimi used to be, but not anymore), and so, as you say, I hope that in the future we get some more Hamilton/Alonso battles. They were great.
Shumaker was a great driver but a cheating cnut as well.
Hamilton has told a lawyer and Ferrari where to get off.
This pleases me.
Hamilton has told a lawyer and Ferrari where to get off.
This pleases me.
I have a fecking pass to the Singapore Grand Prix.
Get in!
Get in!
Been to a race before?
The speed and noise will knock your socks off. TV just doesn't capture how insanely fast those cars travel
The noise is harsh.
Was way out in the forest at the old Hockenheim in 2001....200mph, before braking. Piercing noise, genuinely painful.
Was way out in the forest at the old Hockenheim in 2001....200mph, before braking. Piercing noise, genuinely painful.
Never. This one's my racing cherry.
Got to say I was dead lucky to get the tickets. Submitted a random entry for a lucky draw and got a pair of tickets
You been to one before? What is it like? Does it just whizz past and the sound coming like a year later?