Yes its good he won, but the way ITV were going on you would have thought he started from the back of the grid and it was a dry track with no advantage being from starting at the front.
The F1 Thread 2008 Season
- Thread starter RedNome
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Yes its good he won, but the way ITV were going on you would have thought he started from the back of the grid and it was a dry track with no advantage being from starting at the front.
Good race, lot of good performances....Vettel obviously, Hamilton and maybe surprisingly, Alonso. Massa was solid enough as well, all things considered. Fastest lap to Raikkonen wasn't it?...what a strange car that Ferrari is.
Interestingly and surprisingly, looking at the fastest laps this year, Kimi has dominated, with 9 out of 15 races, where as Lewis hasn't had a single one.
Interestingly and surprisingly, looking at the fastest laps this year, Kimi has dominated, with 9 out of 15 races, where as Lewis hasn't had a single one.
I don't understand Raikkonen. He does this every race. He looks asleep untill the race is almost over and then he goes and drives the fastest lap.
What a pile of fecking drivel this is, you Brits started watching F1 this season? Vettel won in a car being the F1 equivalent of a Lada..it is an amazing achievement. Kovalainen was poor compared to his team mate? Lets see...erm, Kovalainen finished second, Hamliton seventh..in qualifying Kovalainen 2nd, Hamilton what 16th?
I can clearly see how Hamilton performed better this weekend. And yeah, Kimi is clearly shite? you fecking muppet - merely the currect WDC..the only luck he had was the clear track in front of him, which he deserved as he did so well in qualifying.
Nobody understands it.
It does seem like he isn't really putting the effort in anymore - sitting in one of the best cars on the grid, repeatedly under-performing in qualifying and the majority of the race, to suddenly put on a spurt of a few fast laps is crazy.
Ferrari do have a strange car though, its clearly got a problem reaching its full potential in these conditions. Maybe the drivers are having difficulty in setting it up right.
Oh and Hamilton eventually got on it in the middle of the race, albeit wearing out his tyres badly at one point, but Vettel was clearly out on his own out there - didn't put a foot wrong and dominated the weekend. In a Toro-Rosso.
Coulthard had a genius idea to change tyres, acted on it a lap or 2 too soon like, but credit to Alonso for still taking the gamble - although at that point he had worn his tyres out and was falling back so he had to do something.
At the end of the day looking back on the weekend just how costly was that mistake from Hamilton in qualifying...
Coulthard had a genius idea to change tyres, acted on it a lap or 2 too soon like, but credit to Alonso for still taking the gamble - although at that point he had worn his tyres out and was falling back so he had to do something.
At the end of the day looking back on the weekend just how costly was that mistake from Hamilton in qualifying...
Ferrari need to get Alonso in. He is the only who can challenge Hamilton in the coming years. Hamilton will win this year's championship with relative ease.
I was hoping that would happen but Ferrari have signed up both Massa and Raikkonen to longer contracts recently and confirmed they both will be the teams drivers next year.
There was also the Ferrari boss saying he didn't thing Alonso's performance in one race was that of a champions.
Unless there is a swift change, I don't see it happening, which is a shame.
Read in an interview by Raikkonen that he has had constant problems with tyre wear. Why they don't get it solved is unclear - think Schumacher back in his days would have stayed in the garage until it was solved whereas Kimi is going out drinking and waiting for Ferrari to provide him a car that suits him.
with Kubica & Vettel coming up - why wuöld you sign Alonso? he is a difficult person. If Ferrari builds a car that suits Kimi next year he will win it though.
which is why he is leading by 1 point? it got tight last year and he lost. Unfortunately Massa is weak as well.
Well that probably is the plan.
Why would you want Alonso? I'd rather have Alonso than Massa anyday. He's one of the best drivers on the grid. Taking overall factors into account and mainly his experience he probably still is the best at the moment. He can certainly set up the car and drive the team forward like he has done before - a factor which Ferrari could do with a boost in right now.
He's not all that difficult, just when certain things don't go his way - like any sportsmen really. Hamilton was always going to get the attention at McLaren after paying for his career, being English and the best up and coming talent for a while. What problems did he cause at Renault? He was the darling of F1 until Hamilton came in, then things turned on him.
He didn't handle it well last year with Hamilton, why would he do so with Kimi? He is better than Massa that is for sure though.
You wouldn't know for sure until you had him signed up. I think its different circumstances.
When he signed for McLaren there were a few facts like Hamilton being a rookie driver in F1. Even Ron had reservations in bringing him in that year and was poised between him and De La Rosa. Knowing this Alonso and everyone else would clearly think he was number 1. On top of that Hamilton was already part of the McLaren setup anyway. Plus its harsh to blame the lad forever in what was a heated time for him as his career was going down hill instead of winning his 3rd title.
Joining Ferrari with Kimi in the team would be a different matter but its probably never going to happen now.
All great sportsmen have their bad sides, Schumi wasn't always an angel, even Hamilton today was seriously testing his luck by pushing nearly half the people he overtook out wide.
Well said, I also think being a team-mate with Kimi would be different as Kimi minds his own business and couldn't care less about his team-mate. I'd also guess it is better enterainment going out drinking with Kimi than Lewis.
Having both Kimi and Alonso would be quite expensive though - not that money is much of an issue at Ferrari.
As for the race today and Kimis fastest lap - just read that Kimi indeed had tyre problems and couldn't get decent grip - at the end when the weather got better he could use the intermediate tyre and pick up his pace which is why he pulled of the fastest lap in the end.
I made a prediction that he will end up winning it easily in the end. You can predict the opposite if you want.
Can't be bothered - your, mine, Jackie Stewarts, Niki Laudas etc predicitions are rather uninteresting are they not?
What a pile of fecking drivel this is, you Brits started watching F1 this season? Vettel won in a car being the F1 equivalent of a Lada..it is an amazing achievement. Kovalainen was poor compared to his team mate? Lets see...erm, Kovalainen finished second, Hamliton seventh..in qualifying Kovalainen 2nd, Hamilton what 16th?
Wow you need to chill out mate. For starters I have been watching F1 since 1995 and have missed maybe a dozen races since then. Vettel's drive was very very good yes BUT a number of factors have to be considered, 1. Ferrari power, 2. Clear track all race which makes a huge difference, 3. Weather fell for him perfectly and 4. Others had off days.
I watched the race with Live Timing so I know who was fast and when, Kovalainen was average all day, at times 3 seconds a lap slower than Hamilton in the same conditions. He underperformed. Kimi the same, its no good setting fastest laps for the last 10 laps when your nowhere, he has done this 5-6 races this season, Spa I thought was his comeback but today he was average. Your clearly a WUM.
I am not sure what that has got to do with anything. If you think Hamilton is gonna bottle it this season as well then might as well say it.
Ferrari has already got a top driver in Kimi, but somehow he does not radiate the same hunger and desire as Alonso and Hamilton. You know if Alonso was at Ferrari right now, he would be on their backs all day to give him a car that can beat Hamilton. I would not be surprised if Kimi retires after next season.
Agreed, Kimi is still probably the fastest driver in F1 over a single lap but for some reason he has never fully settled into the Ferrari cars. Yes he won a WDC in it and ofcourse he is good but his McLaren day's were clearly his best, he had hunger, desire and incredibly bad luck.
I think his Mclaren days had a big effect on him. He got frustrated a lot then and now seems resigned at times instead of letting any unlucky incidents fire him up.
Vettel - The Next Schumacher (Michael that is)
That is all.
Hopefully, he will move to Ferrari in 2010 after Kimi retires (it's inevitable)
That is all.
Hopefully, he will move to Ferrari in 2010 after Kimi retires (it's inevitable)
More like the next Jenson Button.. wins 1 race in his career
This is not impossible - Bernie was not totally off when he said Kimi doesn't live and breath F1 like the other drivers - our other drivers (i.e. former drivers) / rally drivers etc speak about nothing else than driving - Kimi somehow lacks this passion. Could be his personality. In a way Kovalainen is more likeable, too bad though that he is just a good driver and not great driver.
What a pile of fecking drivel this is, you Brits started watching F1 this season? Vettel won in a car being the F1 equivalent of a Lada..it is an amazing achievement. Kovalainen was poor compared to his team mate? Lets see...erm, Kovalainen finished second, Hamliton seventh..in qualifying Kovalainen 2nd, Hamilton what 16th?
More evidence everything is an anti Brit tirade from you...
The Torro Rosso isn't a 'lada' in the F1 stakes at all. Its got a Ferrari engine under it for a start. It's clearly been better than its 'parent' Red Bull car, and yet Webber had admassed more points than Vettal up to this point. The virtues of experience perhaps. But there's no taking away from Vettal, he didn't just win, he won comfortably. Ok he had things go heavily in his favour - qualifying, the weather changing in time for his stop, the predicted rain not falling forcing Hamilton back in for an unscheduled... but he made the most of it. That's what the best drivers do. By all rights Kovaleinen should have won todays race, but that never looked likely from the beginning
Hamilton made a tyre selection mistake yesterday. Today he sythed through the field, and if the weather had fallen as all the teams had predicted, he'd have at least podiumed and likely won todays race. How the feck you can think Kovaleinen had a better race shows just how simply you are, and how little you understand what you're on about
IF..
what absolute rubbish..if you end up 2nd as opposed to 7th you had a better race. Is there anything unclear about this? Do you think Liverpool had a better season than Chelsea last year as they ended up 4th as opposed to Chelseas 2nd place?
You have to factor in starting position and how they actually performed. Sure 2nd is better than 7th but Hamilton was mightily impressive in the wet and gained more ground that expected. If he had started on the front row he would have won by a huge margin. He was 2-3 seconds per lap faster than Vettel for several laps before the track started to dry a little.
Congrats to Vettel for a great weekend and solid race. A young driver with a very good future. Hopefully we will be seeing Vettel vs Hamilton battles at the front of the grid for years.
The starting position is a position won, i.e. you need to count in qualifying with the fuel loads used, one stop, two stop strategy etc. It is essential when you analyze a race as it is part of the race. Lewis was 2-3 seconds faster under the right conditions and for merely a few laps, hell even Kimi did the fastest lap under the right conditions. Had he been 2-3 seconds faster per lap the ENTIRE race he would obviously not have finished behind both Vettel and Kovalainen as he started a mere 50 meter behind these lads.
50 meters and 2 cars. The first few laps were a nightmare, zero visibility.
I believe the fastest Hamilton laps were on a fairly full load of fuel. He was very fast and impressive in the wet. They banked on a full wet race and it dried out and nullified his advantage.
So he wasn't fast enough on intermediate tyres then? Kimi had the opposite - we could say right now that IF it had been dry enough so that Kimi COULD have used intermediate tyres ALL race he WOULD HAVE won the race in a comfortable manner. Tragic it was that these optimal conditions for Kimi (when he set the fastest lap) did not happen for more than 5 laps.
Actually Ahmed you're wrong.
All it means is that you finished in a better position.
If you start off in pole, get a good start and then four spins later you finish in fifth, but another driver starts in 21st but storms through the field to finish 6th who had the better race? You had a justifiable expectation to win the race and were disappointed. The other driver had no expectation to get points but did.
You got more points than him but who had the better race? Depends on the circumstances.
Tx
Dim by name...
I enjoyed this.
this is actually a good comparison. If Liverpool started the season off in 15th position, with less points than everybody above them, then yes, they would have had a better season than others.
It wasnt tyre wear but getting the it up to temperature. His style is a lot smoother than Massa's and he struggles to get enough heat into the tyres as quickly. Hence his struggles in qualifying but is able to lap the quickest during race if he has a clear track ahead. The commentators mentioned it was similar case with Heidfeld vs Kubica. The problems get worser when it rains and the tyre keeps cooling down.
What if a newly promoted team won the league spending maybe less than one hundredth of what the top teams spend? Would Liverpool improving from 15th to 7th be a better season than that ?
Vettel has won the race from Red Bull's B team where investment is far lesser than Red Bull racing. He is the youngest driver to win a Grand Prix. It was the drive of the season. Perhaps the best grand prix drive by a young rookie driver in recent history.
The B team has a Ferrari engine that the A team doesn't. People should be careful not to underplay how good that Torro Rosso is. Ok in normal conditions, it isn't going to win a grand prix. But for instance, for the brilliant job Vettal did putting it on pole, his team mate Bourdais, who its safe to say hasn't had the greatest debut season in F1, managed to qualify 4th. We have no idea how he'd have gone in the race proper as his car failed on the start line
All of that said, it was still a magnificent drive. Kovaleinen had the same vehicle underneath him Hamilton did, and yet he was never close to challenging Vettal. I think thats an indication as how those two rate as respective talents. And the guy comes across as so likeable and down to earth, astonishing given he's actually a German, its hard not to be delighted for him!
Sad thing is he's moving to Red Bull next season, which unless there's a major turn around from this season, is an inferior car
Anyone that comes on a British site and expects anything other than support and a little biased from their fellow countrymen is a bit of a dick-head IMO.
The Ferrari engine is an older version V8 engine - Ferrari 056 V8 that is being used by back of the grid teams for 3 years. The main Red Bull team used it in 2006 and handed it over to the B team in 2007. The B team has been using the same engine (specification and make) for 2 seasons now. Ferrari also supply the engine to Force India.
Their win had less all to do with engine but more to do with driver ability. That is why it was the drive of the season. It was also the reason why most commentators were lauding the win.