Who would you have voted for?
The Double Draft - QF: harms vs Enigma
- Thread starter Edgar Allan Pillow
- Start date
Come on, @Enigma_87 , let's get this over with
Sorry guys lots of work today, give me 10 mins and will send it over to Edgar.
Edit: sent
Edit: sent
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Really surprised this was so close , maybe some unfamiliarity with harms midfield but his right and left sides are almost as perfect as it gets . With Van basten spearheading , I think this would have ended up maybe 4-2 harms over 90mins
Oh! Penalties. The 1st game of this draft ending with a draw?
Sorry @Enigma_87 I couldn't choose this time.
Sorry @Enigma_87 I couldn't choose this time.
Maldini center. Dasayev goes Left. Score
harms 1 - 0 Enigma
Pele - center. Maier goes Right. Score
harms 1 - 1 Enigma
harms 1 - 0 Enigma
Pele - center. Maier goes Right. Score
harms 1 - 1 Enigma
Bonhof center. Dasayev goes Left. Score
harms 2 - 1 Enigma
Nedved - left. Maier goes Right. Save
harms 2 - 1 Enigma
harms 2 - 1 Enigma
Nedved - left. Maier goes Right. Save
harms 2 - 1 Enigma
van Basten right. Dasayev stays Center. Score
harms 3 - 1 Enigma
Suarez - left. Maier goes Right. Save
harms 3 - 1 Enigma
harms 3 - 1 Enigma
Suarez - left. Maier goes Right. Save
harms 3 - 1 Enigma
Meanwhile
Cafu center. Dasayev goes Right. Score
harms 4 - 1 Engima
Figueroa - right. Maier goes Right. Score
harms 4 - 2 Enigma.
@harms wins the match.
Congrats harms. Hard luck @Enigma_87
harms 4 - 1 Engima
Figueroa - right. Maier goes Right. Score
harms 4 - 2 Enigma.
@harms wins the match.
Congrats harms. Hard luck @Enigma_87
Unlucky @Enigma_87 .. best of luck @harms. Great match.
Great game. So much talent here
Maier trying to save everything even after the final whistle
If only Liverpool had seen this, they could have avoided the beach ball.
Great game this. I opted for Harms just because I was slightly unsure about Tigana's suitability for his role at this level, and because I'm particularly high on van Basten at the minute. Djazic/van Basten looks an incredible combination in its own right, and factoring in Messi on the right that attack has pretty much everything.
Yeah, I genuinely can't think of a better left winger/striker combo (Best or Ronaldo are more of a forwards themselves and I rate van Basten marginally higher than Müller, Romario and Ronaldo as a target striker), although they went a little under the radar in this game
Aye, it's really more than the sum of its parts which is something else given their rarefied quality as individuals.
Just give my vote to harms for the semi final already . There is no greater more devastating combination in the history of the game more effective than what peak Cafu and Messi would have been .
I would have voted for enigma
I wonder why not many would see this. Messi on the right is not what you see Messi's best at Barcelona. He even complained about this, and Pep had to ditch Ibra because of that.
Have you missed the last few years? I'm not playing pre-Ibra Messi. I genuinely think that Messi in the treble-winning season is the best version of him, he is so all-rounded, he was more focused on goal scoring as a false 9 (and he has less space)
But then you need to dominate the midfield and have constant supply to the front line. Also Suarez and v. Basten isn't that similar type of player who is comfortable drifting to the flank to allow Messi going center.
Even so I'd still regard him as the number one choice for the right-wing gig in an all-time XI. And there's different slants on it. Circa 2008 he usually started from the right touchline. Under Enrique he usually floats from and around the inside-right channel, which is quite similar to how Harms has him here.
My midfield is easily comparable to today's Barca - Masopust and Iniesta share lots of similar qualities, Zito and Busquets also comparable and Bonhof as a technical and creative workhorse is an upgrade on Rakitic.
They don't dominate the midfield like they did with prime Xavi and Iniesta either.
Messi have more freedom now and he drops deeper, helping to control midfield.
Van Basten is very different from Suarez and so is Dzajic compared to Neymar, but while van Basten doesn't move around like Suarez, his superior qualities and overall threat allows him to bind both central defenders and to push the defensive line deeper, creating more space for Messi to operate in, Dzajic also stretches the defense more than Neymar
But the thing is, my team isn't a carbon copy of Enrique's or Pep's Barca, it's an original team with my personal views on players being the basis of player's roles and positions
I wish you said it sooner though, it would've been a great discussion
Thank you too mate, good luck going forward!
I see. I'm not familiar with Masoput, Zito and Bonhof. My knowledge on Dzajic is just based on stories.
Yeh. I can see now Messi's role on the right, as in Ronaldinho's on the left. Although I still don't think v. Basten is the right type of striker, but he's still one of the greatest striker of all time, so he won't do Higuain's.
Thank you, folks.
Possibly, although I myself rate him in the false 9 role much higher, but both of them were fantastic. However in that latter right wing role you won't get the incredible goal machine that he was at his peak up front, which was basically him guaranteeing a goal in any game and breaking all sorts of records. He hasn't won the Pichichi for the last three years running.
Anyway, there's quite a lot that happened in the treble winning season that allowed him to perform as well as he did particularly from Neymar and Suarez that probably won't be tactically matched here. Suarez has fantastic mobility, work rate and selflessness as well as no fuss whatsoever in drifting deep or into the channels that allows Messi to use that vacated highway when he wants to. Van Basten is pretty much going to occupy the penalty area the whole time and won't offer that sort of 1-2 between him and Messi to take defenders out of their position. Secondly, the highlight of the season was the lob from Messi landing at Neymar's feet, mainly because Messi's incredible vision and accuracy and also Neymar's style of play, which is making lightning quick darting runs into the box from the left and take those lobs down for a strike. Dzajic, again, is really not the same kind of wide player who would constantly make those runs, rather take the ball deep and make his own way inside. All in all it doesn't add up to the tactical setup that was vital in allowing him to make a great impact on games without being the main goalscoring threat and always having to carry the ball himself. Dzajic and Van Basten is as good as it gets but Messi doesn't quite fit with those two for me. He needs a more fluid and flexible front line alongside to get the best out of his skillset. 2c.
Just to chime in here - I also prefer Messi as a false #9 and by quite a significant margin too.
I would argue that neither van basten or dzajic ever played with someone quite like Messi , and that by doing so they would adapt their game to him and his qualities
I.e. Messi would make both better , like he does with almost everyone he plays with
I.e. Messi would make both better , like he does with almost everyone he plays with
Of course they are all quality players and they won't just fall apart. Looking at Messi's teammates though, Van Basten is a tad closer to Ibra than Eto'o or Suarez, if that means anything. One of the big reasons Messi found so much success with both Eto'o and Suarez was their fluidity, willingness to drop wide and work in tandem with Messi, something that is not necessarily found in Van Basten's style of play.
Van Basten is one of the most complete strikers in history of the game and one of the smartest ones as well. He would work with Messi without any problems, he was much more then a target man or a classic number 9. Just because Messi now plays with Suarez it doesnt man he can only play with that type of striker....
TBH, I'm not a big fan of the blonde version of Messi.
Of course, but the point here is simple - how many times will Van Basten be willing to vacate the penalty area, drift wide, or take out defenders by dropping deep and allow Messi the space to conjure goal scoring opportunities, something that has been important to his performances? It's not a question of greatness or smartness, it's simply about the style of play. The whole "theyre great players so they'll work something out anyway" isn't really that great an argument. Especially when on the other hand Dzajic and Van Basten are getting plaudits precisely because their styles of playing compliment each other so well - which they completely deserve.
Yeah, Van Basten has not the Barcelona DNA.
You didnt understand me, im not saying they would work because both are great players im saying they would work because i can see them having a great partnership. Van Basten wasnt Ruud or Inzaghi, he wasnt type of striker that would just sit on the shoulders of last defender and poach around/inside the box. His all-around play was very good, formed a very good partnership with Gullit where they often terrorized defences with silky little flicks and tricks. He wouldnt go so much to the wide areas compared to Suarez but he did that as well when needed and with Cafu behind Messi he wouldnt need to go as much, his movement inside would be enough and speaking of movement there are very few players that can say they were better at it then him. As i said earlier in the thread, his football intelligence is second to none and every footballer that understand the game so much would find a way to merge his game with Messi's even if they werent a good fit and IMO Van Basten is.