The 'indepence at the time of birth' part was pretty much thrown over board when Kanchelskis was allowed. Don't think there's any difference between Yugoslavia falling apart and the Soviet Union falling apart. And if I'm not mistaken, Rob Jones was also allowed because it wasn't clear from the start that states with nationalteams recognised by FIFA don't count as a seperate country when they are part of a bigger nation, so for example born in Wales but played for England fits the criteria now, even though Wales wasn't independent from England at the time the player was born.
The Criteria Draft - The Drafts
- Thread starter RoadTrip
- Start date
Thanks Balu, i remember rptroda saying as much but i just couldn't explain it in a readable sentence 
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.That's at least how I understood trippy's call on the matter. Don't blame me, if Rob Jones actually wasn't allowed and I just misunderstood the whole thing. I'm easily confused at timesThanks Balu, i remember rptroda saying as much but i just couldn't explain it in a readable sentence
. For what it's worth, I would have given VivaJ and you a sheep for not being able to read the fecking criteria, but I'd be a mean gamemaster, trippy is way nicer than me and Annah got lucky again with the perfect timing to pick Mihajlovic after others passed on him because of the original phrasing of the rule. Annah really is annoyingly good and annoyingly lucky in these drafts.I think he should, but it seems like he doesn't, even though I've no idea why. Ask trippy about that oneSeriously
So does Davids now count?
.That's crazy if the rule has been dropped at this stage!
It's not even difficult, Trippy worded it in a very clear way. There was nothing complicated about the two countries being independent
Changing it now seems silly to me because people have passed on different players.
It's not even difficult, Trippy worded it in a very clear way. There was nothing complicated about the two countries being independent
Changing it now seems silly to me because people have passed on different players.
If you start the drama again, a day after everything has been sorted, some of the other managers might kill you. I wouldn't mind though, then I get the chance to post a few magnificent popcorn gifs.That's crazy if the rule has been dropped at this stage!
It's not even difficult, Trippy worded it in a very clear way. There was nothing complicated about the two countries being independent
Changing it now seems silly to me because people have passed on different players.
Sorry man.I haven't read the drama, must have missed it. Doesn't make sense to me though - the rule says they should be independent, and they ain't independent. Clear cut.
I'll share some of that popcorn if you don't mind, Balu. Been an outsider to this whole thing having picked Desailly in second round.
I was happy to let my R.Jones pick slide but i actually wanted Kanchelskis and he ended up being eligible. Balu when i first messaged you for help and then messaged you straight back saying i have worked it out that was regarding picking Kanchelskis.
I'll share some of that popcorn if you don't mind, Balu. Been an outsider to this whole thing having picked Desailly in second round.
FromTheBench picked Makelele really early because he was worried about this criteria, so even if you get the criteria out the way it still effects you! I suggested Baggio, but it was the difficulty of the criteria that swayed him.
My other suggestion was Davids - but we didn't go for him because the two countries weren't independent!
I suggested Andrei to viva but I asked him to verify it with trippy before picking it. Assumed he actually did that.
Neither Kanchelskis, Mihajlovic should be allowed really, if Davids wasn't.
But what's done is done.
But what's done is done.
Come on @EDogen i am giving you as much time as i can before i make my pick.
Shouldn't have been allowed to be changed at this stage but now Allow countries that split up if you were born in the seperate part of that country but not Colonies at the time, i guess ?
UK is bit of a grey area.
UK is bit of a grey area.
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We really brought it up again haven't we?...
I hate arguing Jesus, if you want to decide on a sheep now so be it, just letting you know it will screw my team with 1 pick left in the god awful criteria. I won't be dramatic about it though
I hate arguing Jesus, if you want to decide on a sheep now so be it, just letting you know it will screw my team with 1 pick left in the god awful criteria. I won't be dramatic about it though
I just need 100% conformation that Rob Jones meets the criteria before i make my pick, that is why i brought it up again.
Chill out man.
You picked someone who didn't meet the criteria, obviously it's going to be talked about.
If those two counts then Rob Jones should, so just go ahead.
All three of them shouldn't have though.
Don't think trippy will change it again, would make no sense and make everything even more complicated. The bolded part. If Kanchelskis wasn't allowed in the born in a different country criteria, you could exchange him for a sheep in the god awful criteria and pick another one for the born in a different country criteria. After all, Kanchelskis would be the one not meeting a criteria in the end, not the replacement for him. So it wouldn't have screwed your team as much as you think
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Sorry.. hangover part 4 here..
I will pick in 5 min
I will pick in 5 min
You best not take the player i want now !
I will take Francesco Toldo who has less than 30 caps for Italy.
I pick Gilberto Silva who has 93 caps for Brazil.
As far as I can tell, Trip has confirmed that Rob Jones does count.
The reason (for Trip being generous) being that Dunc, like several others among us, assumed Wales/England would count. When Davids was discussed, the FIFA member aspect of it was never mentioned (that only came up much later, after the Kanchelskis situation), just the fact that Suriname was still a colony when Davids was born. Nobody brought up the FIFA thing - if it had occurred to someone back then, we could have avoided the whole Kanchelskis controversy.
But, obviously, technically speaking Davids and Jones are in the same category if we only focus on the FIFA membership aspect: both were born in one FIFA recognized nation and played for a different FIFA recognized nation.
I suggest that if someone wants a player they've already picked (before the Kanchelskis affair) recognized as meeting the "born in other country" criterion, they PM Trip about it. He may then be lenient or not, but formally Dunc's case would be an exception as I see it, it doesn't imply a change of the rules as such - and the rules say nothing about FIFA status.
Main point: appeal to Trip's mercy if you must - but let's not start the whole debate again.
I might not have to get rid of Baines now anyway if @rpitroda is feeling generous regarding the Rob Jones situation
The reason (for Trip being generous) being that Dunc, like several others among us, assumed Wales/England would count. When Davids was discussed, the FIFA member aspect of it was never mentioned (that only came up much later, after the Kanchelskis situation), just the fact that Suriname was still a colony when Davids was born. Nobody brought up the FIFA thing - if it had occurred to someone back then, we could have avoided the whole Kanchelskis controversy.
But, obviously, technically speaking Davids and Jones are in the same category if we only focus on the FIFA membership aspect: both were born in one FIFA recognized nation and played for a different FIFA recognized nation.
I suggest that if someone wants a player they've already picked (before the Kanchelskis affair) recognized as meeting the "born in other country" criterion, they PM Trip about it. He may then be lenient or not, but formally Dunc's case would be an exception as I see it, it doesn't imply a change of the rules as such - and the rules say nothing about FIFA status.
Main point: appeal to Trip's mercy if you must - but let's not start the whole debate again.
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That's true, but the caveat of the country being independent at the time of the player's birth was revealed after I had picked, so I picked just in the assumption of born in one country, played for another and the two countries being independent today. But I still would have picked Desailly, in fact even bigger reasons as at that point I had the likes of Davids as qualifying for that category, which after that reveal didn't.
But yea your point is valid that it could have affected people who got it out of the way early.
I am edging towards playing this and having Clauido Lopez to come of the bench
What's the FIFA thing?
The rule doesn't even seem that complicated - are they independent yes or no. Croatia and Serbia for instance weren't independent as they were part of Yugoslavia. It seems really clear.
I didn't even know that part of it changed, I think when I got involved it must have already been revealed because when we looked the 'before they were born' part was still there.
I looked at the Dutch for example, and noticed that Seedorf qualified as they were independent when he was born, but Davids didn't qualify because the countries were not independent.
This will probably be my team. Maybe some small formation changes but this will be the eleven players.
Overall I am happy with the look of the team, think I have most areas covered.
What do people think of it?
Overall I am happy with the look of the team, think I have most areas covered.
What do people think of it?
This will probably be my team. Maybe some small formation changes but this will be the eleven players.
Overall I am happy with the look of the team, think I have most areas covered.
What do people think of it?
Annoyingly good
This will probably be my team. Maybe some small formation changes but this will be the eleven players.
Overall I am happy with the look of the team, think I have most areas covered.
What do people think of it?
I like it. It'll bring in tons of goals for you. However, it will leave your defence exposed quite often, and your keeper will deal with a number of shots every match. Your defence will have to be up for it every match and always defend for their lives. I think Gallas may be the weak point in this defence as, individually, he's prone to getting caught out and making mistakes. Toldo's a very nice pick from you. His huge frame and great shot-stopping ability will be of excellent use along with his dominant presence on the pitch.
In the end, I expect entertaining matches when you team gets involved kind like the Man. Utd. of the 1990's/early 2000's.
I love it, I agree with Mazhar though in it being very offensive. Really smells United of 99 which was also had no balance at all and very gung ho. But as long you score more than the opponents what does it matter.
Whether a country is a FIFA member, eligible to qualify for the WC - like Wales, Scotland, Suriname (at the time), etc.
But all this - including the points you make about Serbia and Croatia - has been discussed at length already.
Oh right. Not sure how any of that is relevant to independence.
Seems a straight forward criteria to me.
Very good. And contrary to what was told to you earlier, Bale has quite a few fans around here and specially after his successful first season with Madrid, he really shouldn't be a worry for you.This will probably be my team. Maybe some small formation changes but this will be the eleven players.
Overall I am happy with the look of the team, think I have most areas covered.
What do people think of it?
I'm as calm as it gets man, I thought it was understood. I think you are the one who needs to relax
Anyway, Trippy your call..
Quality pick. I was conflicting between Valdes and him, ended up with Valdes because of his distribution but Toldo is definitely the better keeper overall.
Not sure what you're talking about mate. I missed the previous discussion, so all I've done is ask what the logic was for dropping the rule.
You were acting surprised and irritated that it has been brought up, which doesn't really make sense to me.
1. VivaJanuzaj & Crappy - Messi, Sammer, Lahm, Zambrotta, Etoo, Cocu, F. de Boer, Hyypia, Kanchelskis, Valdes, Modric,
2. The Red Viper -Ronaldinho, Henry, Cafu, Kaka, Hierro, Popescu, Effenberg, Hamann, Mata, Naybet, Ceni,
3. Annahnomoss - Ronaldo 9, Thuram, Cannavaro, Ribery, Lizarazu, Pirlo, Essien, Petit, Hazard, Mihajlovic,
4. Cutch - Maldini, Savicevic, Zanetti, Kohler, De Rossi, Benarrivo, Camoranesi, Lehmann, Djorkaeff, Dino Baggio, Hong Myung Bo
5. NoPace - Ronaldo 7, R. Baggio, Senna, Schweinsteiger, Thomas Hassler, Rooney, Aldair, T. Silva, Cech, Juanfran, Carboni
6. Stobzilla / KM - Zidane, Davids, Robben, Irwin, Signori, Ferrara, Van Der Sar, Veron, Pallister, Aurier, Thiago Alcantara
7. FromTheBench/Theon - Romário, Makélélé, Gerrard, Totti, Blanc, Sagnol, Samuel, Cantona, Panucci, Filipe Luis, Jose Luis Chilavert
8. EDogen - Keane, Scholes, Weah, Evra, Beckham, Bale, Gallas, Raul, Petrescu, Carvalho, Toldo
9. BigDunc9 - Xavi, Iniesta, Shevchenko, Albertini, F. Couto, Claudio Lopez, Baines, Reus, R. Jones, Benatia, Gilberto Silva
10. rpitroda - Nedved, Seedorf, Deco, Ferdinand, Luis Enrique, Guardiola, Zabaleta, Kluivert, Overmars, Gamarra,
11. BorisDeLeFora - Nesta, Vieira, Matt Le Tissier, Lucio, Lampard, Villa, Ginola, van Bronckhorst, Emerson, Makaay,
12. Chesterlestreet - Stoichkov, Mendieta, Des Walker, Prosinečki, Ibrahimovic, Kahn, Bergkamp, Adams, Pessotto, Van Bommel,
13. Paceme - Figo, Rui Costa, Batistuta, Vidic, Del Piero, Cambiasso, Yaya Toure, Abidal, Koscielny, Higuita,
14. NM / Snow - Redondo, Giggs, Ayala, Ballack, Fabregas, Ljungberg, Buffon, Costacurta, Higuain, Alaba,
15. Aldo - Rivaldo, Desailly, Stam, Hagi, Simeone, Van Persie, G. Neville, Mascherano, Basler, Harte,
16. Edgar Allan pillow - Roberto Carlos, Litmanen, Pepe, Arteta, Suarez, Gattuso, Di Maria, Cazorla, P. Andersson, Maicon,
@rpitroda
2. The Red Viper -Ronaldinho, Henry, Cafu, Kaka, Hierro, Popescu, Effenberg, Hamann, Mata, Naybet, Ceni,
3. Annahnomoss - Ronaldo 9, Thuram, Cannavaro, Ribery, Lizarazu, Pirlo, Essien, Petit, Hazard, Mihajlovic,
4. Cutch - Maldini, Savicevic, Zanetti, Kohler, De Rossi, Benarrivo, Camoranesi, Lehmann, Djorkaeff, Dino Baggio, Hong Myung Bo
5. NoPace - Ronaldo 7, R. Baggio, Senna, Schweinsteiger, Thomas Hassler, Rooney, Aldair, T. Silva, Cech, Juanfran, Carboni
6. Stobzilla / KM - Zidane, Davids, Robben, Irwin, Signori, Ferrara, Van Der Sar, Veron, Pallister, Aurier, Thiago Alcantara
7. FromTheBench/Theon - Romário, Makélélé, Gerrard, Totti, Blanc, Sagnol, Samuel, Cantona, Panucci, Filipe Luis, Jose Luis Chilavert
8. EDogen - Keane, Scholes, Weah, Evra, Beckham, Bale, Gallas, Raul, Petrescu, Carvalho, Toldo
9. BigDunc9 - Xavi, Iniesta, Shevchenko, Albertini, F. Couto, Claudio Lopez, Baines, Reus, R. Jones, Benatia, Gilberto Silva
10. rpitroda - Nedved, Seedorf, Deco, Ferdinand, Luis Enrique, Guardiola, Zabaleta, Kluivert, Overmars, Gamarra,
11. BorisDeLeFora - Nesta, Vieira, Matt Le Tissier, Lucio, Lampard, Villa, Ginola, van Bronckhorst, Emerson, Makaay,
12. Chesterlestreet - Stoichkov, Mendieta, Des Walker, Prosinečki, Ibrahimovic, Kahn, Bergkamp, Adams, Pessotto, Van Bommel,
13. Paceme - Figo, Rui Costa, Batistuta, Vidic, Del Piero, Cambiasso, Yaya Toure, Abidal, Koscielny, Higuita,
14. NM / Snow - Redondo, Giggs, Ayala, Ballack, Fabregas, Ljungberg, Buffon, Costacurta, Higuain, Alaba,
15. Aldo - Rivaldo, Desailly, Stam, Hagi, Simeone, Van Persie, G. Neville, Mascherano, Basler, Harte,
16. Edgar Allan pillow - Roberto Carlos, Litmanen, Pepe, Arteta, Suarez, Gattuso, Di Maria, Cazorla, P. Andersson, Maicon,
@rpitroda
I had marked down the under 30 category for keeper since the start since it is very likely that quality keepers end up being second choice for NT like Valdes. But then I used that for Basler as I was really struggling to find a proper winger who would combine nicely with Neville and Basler really liked the best partner out there within the remaining categories.