The Centre Forward Stop-Gap Market

R0nald0 said:
If we're signing a loan stop gap, what are we waiting for? We need to act now, we've got lots of games in January which this player could contribute and give others a needed rest
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My point exactly and it's so frustrating
 
Gambit said:
Yup
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We should be showing the same level of urgency as today when bringing in Butland,have already reached the point I will take any CF who can score some goals who ideally are clinical too.
 
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It is kind of mad that the club have known this position is a requirement for so long and had a month of no games over the world cup to identify and approach targets and they don't seem to have any idea of what their looking for bouncing around from left wings in Gakpo to possibly looking at Thuram and now contemplating Kudus who is a number ten. Know there is a lot of defensiveness here about Arnold and Murtough but really feel that a competent organisation would have someone in the door at the opening of the transfer window with the run of games we have ahead.
 
Bojan Djordjic said:
It is kind of mad that the club have known this position is a requirement for so long and had a month of no games over the world cup to identify and approach targets and they don't seem to have any idea of what their looking for bouncing around from left wings in Gakpo to possibly looking at Thuram and now contemplating Kudus who is a number ten. Know there is a lot of defensiveness here about Arnold and Murtough but really feel that a competent organisation would have someone in the door at the opening of the transfer window with the run of games we have ahead.
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Couldn't agree more it's a total shambles that Arnold & Murtough hadn't lined up replacement for him soon as he was released but not surprised
 
Bojan Djordjic said:
It is kind of mad that the club have known this position is a requirement for so long and had a month of no games over the world cup to identify and approach targets and they don't seem to have any idea of what their looking for bouncing around from left wings in Gakpo to possibly looking at Thuram and now contemplating Kudus who is a number ten. Know there is a lot of defensiveness here about Arnold and Murtough but really feel that a competent organisation would have someone in the door at the opening of the transfer window with the run of games we have ahead.
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Yep, it's starting to have the feeling of a window where we'll spend three weeks chasing around trying to sign a player out of our reach in January, before settling on somebody we could've had from the start on deadline day.
 
CM10 said:
Yep, it's starting to have the feeling of a window where we'll spend three weeks chasing around trying to sign a player out of our reach in January, before settling on somebody we could've had from the start on deadline day.
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Yeah we have seen this film so many times,should be simpler because we are apparently only looking at loan deals this window
 
croadyman said:
Yeah we have seen this film so many times,should be simpler because we are apparently only looking at loan deals this window
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It is criminal that we didn't have a CF walking into the doors on Jan 1st, considering we have known Ronaldo was gone, for two months, and we are playing games every three days.

feck Glazers. They cannot get out soon enough.
 
NewGlory said:
It is criminal that we didn't have a CF walking into the doors on Jan 1st, considering we have known Ronaldo was gone, for two months, and we are playing games every three days.

feck Glazers. They cannot get out soon enough.
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Yeah I will be fuming if this costs us in these two huge league games coming up,feel we can get through these cup ties.
 
croadyman said:
Yeah I will be fuming if this costs us in these two huge league games coming up,feel we can get through these cup ties.
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I know I shouldn't be saying this, but with the current lack of depth I cannot make myself care for cups. Gotta be laser focused on making top 4.
 
NewGlory said:
I know I shouldn't be saying this, but with the current lack of depth I cannot make myself care for cups. Gotta be laser focused on making top 4.
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Oh yeah I completely agree but just meant we should get through Everton & Charlton without any CF cover but need it after that
 
Bojan Djordjic said:
It is kind of mad that the club have known this position is a requirement for so long and had a month of no games over the world cup to identify and approach targets and they don't seem to have any idea of what their looking for bouncing around from left wings in Gakpo to possibly looking at Thuram and now contemplating Kudus who is a number ten. Know there is a lot of defensiveness here about Arnold and Murtough but really feel that a competent organisation would have someone in the door at the opening of the transfer window with the run of games we have ahead.
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The media is speculating. The same media that said Gakpo and Enzo were done deals. We don't really know what is going on....
 
Erik the Red said:
The media is speculating. The same media that said Gakpo and Enzo were done deals. We don't really know what is going on....
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That is true so hopefully we can do it completely under the radar in the next week
 
I don't mind the Mo Kudus idea. Short term stop gap for back up upfront and long term squad player with great versatility across the pitch.
Strong player, bit erratic, not a sharp shooter but can find the net and works tirelessly.
looked good at the world cup.
Not an starting Ajax regular and could be a good cash in time for them to invest in another young squad player.
 
Erik the Red said:
The media is speculating. The same media that said Gakpo and Enzo were done deals. We don't really know what is going on....
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What media said Enzo and Gakpo was a done deal? I've seen it said that United were leading the way etc etc for each of those players which I would always take with a pinch of salt but I mean it's just a plain fact that we have nobody ready to come in on 1 January having known since last Summer that this was going to be a priority position to fill. Media speculation is secondary in this case as it just relates to who will come in but *why* have we not got somebody in ready to go for the crowded schedule ahead?

EtH has pulled up trees getting us into the top four after a horror start to the league and now with a nightmare schedule ahead he hasn't got a single specialist centre forward at the club to play with.
 
Bojan Djordjic said:
It is kind of mad that the club have known this position is a requirement for so long and had a month of no games over the world cup to identify and approach targets and they don't seem to have any idea of what their looking for bouncing around from left wings in Gakpo to possibly looking at Thuram and now contemplating Kudus who is a number ten. Know there is a lot of defensiveness here about Arnold and Murtough but really feel that a competent organisation would have someone in the door at the opening of the transfer window with the run of games we have ahead.
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I don't think the club is bouncing around from target to target to be fair - I think that's probably just press talk.

I think we're probably doing nothing at all - which is far more frustrating. Especially when you see the speed at which we got a reserve keeper in (though granted that's an easier position to fill)
 
Bojan Djordjic said:
It is kind of mad that the club have known this position is a requirement for so long and had a month of no games over the world cup to identify and approach targets and they don't seem to have any idea of what their looking for bouncing around from left wings in Gakpo to possibly looking at Thuram and now contemplating Kudus who is a number ten. Know there is a lot of defensiveness here about Arnold and Murtough but really feel that a competent organisation would have someone in the door at the opening of the transfer window with the run of games we have ahead.
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It's kinda hard for any management if the owner had repeatedly said that there's no money to spend for this winter window.
 
Annihilate Now! said:
I don't think the club is bouncing around from target to target to be fair - I think that's probably just press talk.

I think we're probably doing nothing at all - which is far more frustrating. Especially when you see the speed at which we got a reserve keeper in (though granted that's an easier position to fill)
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Yeah, and I did say that in my last post. But even the reserve keeper thing - what is the actual point in Dubravka or Butland signings if they can't contribute. Dubravka was embarassing in the couple of games he played for us. Why not at least attempt to find someone with a ball playing style even if they are not necessarily at DDG's overall level just to experiment with style/systems. Dubravka/Butland are poundshop DDG's as far as I can see. Thought Butland might have been brought in as a penalty specialist as he has a 100% penalty save percentage on fbref but then noticed that he'd only faced one penalty in the period sampled so that ruled that out.
 
Bojan Djordjic said:
Yeah, and I did say that in my last post. But even the reserve keeper thing - what is the actual point in Dubravka or Butland signings if they can't contribute. Dubravka was embarassing in the couple of games he played for us. Why not at least attempt to find someone with a ball playing style even if they are not necessarily at DDG's overall level just to experiment with style/systems. Dubravka/Butland are poundshop DDG's as far as I can see. Thought Butland might have been brought in as a penalty specialist as he has a 100% penalty save percentage on fbref but then noticed that he'd only faced one penalty in the period sampled so that ruled that out.
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The keeper thing is simply just about finding someone with Prem experience who could play a run a game should the worst happen and DDG gets injured. In an ideal world we would spend money on a reserve keeper who can do the things you say, but we don't have that money currently, so we have to find short-term cheap solutions who can do the job. Dubravka was Newcastle's starting goalkeeper not that long ago - so I get why we opted for him - and with Butland, well I can't imagine there's many reserve keeper options in the market at the moment, and he has at least played almost 100 PL games.

Said this in another thread but the whole thing is, if DDG gets injured would you rather we had Butland in goal or Heaton, and whilst the answer is actually "neither" if you had to pick one, you'd probably say Butland.
 
NewGlory said:
It is criminal that we didn't have a CF walking into the doors on Jan 1st, considering we have known Ronaldo was gone, for two months, and we are playing games every three days.

feck Glazers. They cannot get out soon enough.
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Yes. This highlights how poorly run the club is. What is the role of the DoF? We will do a panic deal at the end of the window which is our modus operandi.
 
Cathy Ferguson said:
Yes. This highlights how poorly run the club is. What is the role of the DoF? We will do a panic deal at the end of the window which is our modus operandi.
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In the Summer we wanted FDJ as first choice. Either it was FDJ plus Casemiro, or one of them, we don't really know, but I would suggest with the budget it was either / or. When we couldn't get FDJ, we got Casemiro, who has won the lot, and left Real Madrid for us. I would hardly call that a panic deal at the end of the window.

Maybe we are working on our first choice CF, and if we see that it is not progressing, we will switch to Plan B, which may already be lined up. We have no idea what is really happening, and the media make money from speculating and generating clicks, but usually know little more than we do.

We actually seem to be much better run now, and whether that is due to Murtough, Woodward leaving, or ETH taking more control, we will probably never know, but this constant bashing of the Glazers is just pathetic. No, they haven't pumped millions of their own money into the club, but do we want an oligarch to do that and then get sanctioned, or to have our club used as a plaything, and build up unsustainable costs, and then sold when the owner loses interest? They have taken profits out of the club, as many business owners like to do, and arguably they would have created more value if they had ploughed profits back in and won more trophies, but, I think the money the club spent on players should have been enough to bring us success. We have spent more than almost any other team in the world since we last won the league, so it isn't a lack of spending that was the problem. The footballing side has been a disaster, and the wrong managers and players have been brought in, and a number of those have acted disgracefully. These players are paid a fortune, and to bad mouth the club in public is unforgiveable. Pogba, Ronaldo, Henderson, etc. should have been sued for defamation and claimed damages off them. These players felt they were bigger than the club, and untouchable. Rashford overslept, was punished, scored, and admitted the error of his ways - this is the type of character we want at our club. ETH has said himself that he will check a player's character and mental state before buying, and he clearly won't tolerate bad behaviour under his watch.

ETH will create a winning mentality, with a team of leaders, and you can see from the players he has brought in like Martinez, Casemiro, Eriksen, etc. that they are model professionals, who are playing for the team, not chasing their next personal advertising deal.
 
Erik the Red said:
In the Summer we wanted FDJ as first choice. Either it was FDJ plus Casemiro, or one of them, we don't really know, but I would suggest with the budget it was either / or. When we couldn't get FDJ, we got Casemiro, who has won the lot, and left Real Madrid for us. I would hardly call that a panic deal at the end of the window.

Maybe we are working on our first choice CF, and if we see that it is not progressing, we will switch to Plan B, which may already be lined up. We have no idea what is really happening, and the media make money from speculating and generating clicks, but usually know little more than we do.

We actually seem to be much better run now, and whether that is due to Murtough, Woodward leaving, or ETH taking more control, we will probably never know, but this constant bashing of the Glazers is just pathetic. No, they haven't pumped millions of their own money into the club, but do we want an oligarch to do that and then get sanctioned, or to have our club used as a plaything, and build up unsustainable costs, and then sold when the owner loses interest? They have taken profits out of the club, as many business owners like to do, and arguably they would have created more value if they had ploughed profits back in and won more trophies, but, I think the money the club spent on players should have been enough to bring us success. We have spent more than almost any other team in the world since we last won the league, so it isn't a lack of spending that was the problem. The footballing side has been a disaster, and the wrong managers and players have been brought in, and a number of those have acted disgracefully. These players are paid a fortune, and to bad mouth the club in public is unforgiveable. Pogba, Ronaldo, Henderson, etc. should have been sued for defamation and claimed damages off them. These players felt they were bigger than the club, and untouchable. Rashford overslept, was punished, scored, and admitted the error of his ways - this is the type of character we want at our club. ETH has said himself that he will check a player's character and mental state before buying, and he clearly won't tolerate bad behaviour under his watch.

ETH will create a winning mentality, with a team of leaders, and you can see from the players he has brought in like Martinez, Casemiro, Eriksen, etc. that they are model professionals, who are playing for the team, not chasing their next personal advertising deal.
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Its always so weird to see these kind of posts that gloss over the glazers. In the same breath you give them shallow praise for actually doing dumb stuff that has led us to this point where the club literally has no money to spend. Its so weird..like praising a security dude for hiding when theives raid a store. So you say we have spent the most in the world on transfers in the past 10 years....thats not good at all. There is no prize for spending the most....infact it shows a serious level of incompetence for us to be top of the list. The glazers allowing such silly money to be spent is actually a flaw on their side. How can we spend so much with so little to actually show for it. No trophies, no massive stadium overhaul, no investment into the community etc. If the owners dont care where the money goes, who will. If the money then runs out who is to blame...somehow the glazers got people to believe that we should blame the very employees they hired rather than them.

You then say the footballing side has been a disaster and blame woodward etc. Fair enough...but who employed woodward for 10 plus years and did nothing when his incompetence was obvious way back in 2015...the glazers. It will always end with them since they are the owners. Who is supposed to deal with a problematic CEO...the owners of course.

Furthermore you then say that them taking money out of the club isnt a big deal...well it is a big deal if they have saddled debt onto the club and havent paid a single coin of those debts. In addition, its amazing that more fans are not shocked at the massive financial mismanagement the glazers have done at manutd...we literally dont have money to spend, and we have huge debts. No wonder the glazers want to sell.

Basically even the glazers themselves have accepted that they have run this club to the ground and there is no more money to siphon off plus its time to actually start paying the debts back and they now have to sell but somehow there are people who think they are not so bad...jesus.

The glazers must be the poorest rich people in the world. How are they even rich. At this rate, the family will be broke within 2 generations. They borrow against the club, they take money from the club, havent paid back any of the debts, havent sunk a single coin of their own money in any form of investment into the club, have basically made horrible footballing decisions for 10 years but they still have fans who think they are not the root problem. Brothers,The devil is a liar.
 
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Erik the Red said:
In the Summer we wanted FDJ as first choice. Either it was FDJ plus Casemiro, or one of them, we don't really know, but I would suggest with the budget it was either / or. When we couldn't get FDJ, we got Casemiro, who has won the lot, and left Real Madrid for us. I would hardly call that a panic deal at the end of the window.

Maybe we are working on our first choice CF, and if we see that it is not progressing, we will switch to Plan B, which may already be lined up. We have no idea what is really happening, and the media make money from speculating and generating clicks, but usually know little more than we do.

We actually seem to be much better run now, and whether that is due to Murtough, Woodward leaving, or ETH taking more control, we will probably never know, but this constant bashing of the Glazers is just pathetic. No, they haven't pumped millions of their own money into the club, but do we want an oligarch to do that and then get sanctioned, or to have our club used as a plaything, and build up unsustainable costs, and then sold when the owner loses interest? They have taken profits out of the club, as many business owners like to do, and arguably they would have created more value if they had ploughed profits back in and won more trophies, but, I think the money the club spent on players should have been enough to bring us success. We have spent more than almost any other team in the world since we last won the league, so it isn't a lack of spending that was the problem. The footballing side has been a disaster, and the wrong managers and players have been brought in, and a number of those have acted disgracefully. These players are paid a fortune, and to bad mouth the club in public is unforgiveable. Pogba, Ronaldo, Henderson, etc. should have been sued for defamation and claimed damages off them. These players felt they were bigger than the club, and untouchable. Rashford overslept, was punished, scored, and admitted the error of his ways - this is the type of character we want at our club. ETH has said himself that he will check a player's character and mental state before buying, and he clearly won't tolerate bad behaviour under his watch.

ETH will create a winning mentality, with a team of leaders, and you can see from the players he has brought in like Martinez, Casemiro, Eriksen, etc. that they are model professionals, who are playing for the team, not chasing their next personal advertising deal.
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This post gets worse and worse the more you read on.
 
Mwooyo said:
Its always so weird to see these kind of posts that gloss over the glazers. In the same breath you give them shallow praise for actually doing dumb stuff that has led us to this point where the club literally has no money to spend. Its so weird..like praising a security dude for hiding when theives raid a store. So you say we have spent the most in the world on transfers in the past 10 years....thats not good at all. There is no prize for spending the most....infact it shows a serious level of incompetence for us to be top of the list. The glazers allowing such silly money to be spent is actually a flaw on their side. How can we spend so much with so little to actually show for it. No trophies, no massive stadium overhaul, no investment into the community etc. If the owners dont care where the money goes, who will. If the money then runs out who is to blame...somehow the glazers got people to believe that we should blame the very employees they hired rather than them.

You then say the footballing side has been a disaster and blame woodward etc. Fair enough...but who employed woodward for 10 plus years and did nothing when his incompetence was obvious way back in 2015...the glazers. It will always end with them since they are the owners. Who is supposed to deal with a problematic CEO...the owners of course.

Furthermore you then say that them taking money out of the club isnt a big deal...well it is a big deal if they have saddled debt onto the club and havent paid a single coin of those debts. In addition, its amazing that more fans are not shocked at the massive financial mismanagement the glazers have done at manutd...we literally dont have money to spend, and we have huge debts. No wonder the glazers want to sell.

Basically even the glazers themselves have accepted that they have run this club to the ground and there is no more money to siphon off plus its time to actually start paying the debts back and they now have to sell but somehow there are people who think they are not so bad...jesus.

The glazers must be the poorest rich people in the world. How are they even rich. At this rate, the family will be broke within 2 generations. They borrow against the club, they take money from the club, havent paid back any of the debts, havent sunk a single coin of their own money in any form of investment into the club, have basically made horrible footballing decisions for 10 years but they still have fans who think they are not the root problem. Brothers,The devil is a liar.
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Very well said.
 
Erik the Red said:
In the Summer we wanted FDJ as first choice. Either it was FDJ plus Casemiro, or one of them, we don't really know, but I would suggest with the budget it was either / or. When we couldn't get FDJ, we got Casemiro, who has won the lot, and left Real Madrid for us. I would hardly call that a panic deal at the end of the window.

Maybe we are working on our first choice CF, and if we see that it is not progressing, we will switch to Plan B, which may already be lined up. We have no idea what is really happening, and the media make money from speculating and generating clicks, but usually know little more than we do.

We actually seem to be much better run now, and whether that is due to Murtough, Woodward leaving, or ETH taking more control, we will probably never know, but this constant bashing of the Glazers is just pathetic. No, they haven't pumped millions of their own money into the club, but do we want an oligarch to do that and then get sanctioned, or to have our club used as a plaything, and build up unsustainable costs, and then sold when the owner loses interest? They have taken profits out of the club, as many business owners like to do, and arguably they would have created more value if they had ploughed profits back in and won more trophies, but, I think the money the club spent on players should have been enough to bring us success. We have spent more than almost any other team in the world since we last won the league, so it isn't a lack of spending that was the problem. The footballing side has been a disaster, and the wrong managers and players have been brought in, and a number of those have acted disgracefully. These players are paid a fortune, and to bad mouth the club in public is unforgiveable. Pogba, Ronaldo, Henderson, etc. should have been sued for defamation and claimed damages off them. These players felt they were bigger than the club, and untouchable. Rashford overslept, was punished, scored, and admitted the error of his ways - this is the type of character we want at our club. ETH has said himself that he will check a player's character and mental state before buying, and he clearly won't tolerate bad behaviour under his watch.

ETH will create a winning mentality, with a team of leaders, and you can see from the players he has brought in like Martinez, Casemiro, Eriksen, etc. that they are model professionals, who are playing for the team, not chasing their next personal advertising deal.
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I am convinced we could have signed Antony for 50-60m in June, but we left it late and clearly overpaid. Why did we sign him so late in the window if he was our no 1 RW target? Yes we are clearly making progress as a club but why don't we just get a loan deal done when we are playing every 4th day?
 
Cathy Ferguson said:
I am convinced we could have signed Antony for 50-60m in June, but we left it late and clearly overpaid. Why did we sign him so late in the window if he was our no 1 RW target? Yes we are clearly making progress as a club but why don't we just get a loan deal done when we are playing every 4th day?
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Yeah need to get it done rapidly
 
croadyman said:
We should be showing the same level of urgency as today when bringing in Butland,have already reached the point I will take any CF who can score some goals who ideally are clinical too.
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Probably be much easier if we want to bring in a third choice striker from a mid table team who never even got onto their bench.
 
Cathy Ferguson said:
I am convinced we could have signed Antony for 50-60m in June, but we left it late and clearly overpaid. Why did we sign him so late in the window if he was our no 1 RW target? Yes we are clearly making progress as a club but why don't we just get a loan deal done when we are playing every 4th day?
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Agree on this, we dithered the entire transfer window away waiting for a player who had no intention of ever joining us and by the time we decided to move on, clubs like Ajax wanted 'f*** you money' for their players as they would have so little time in which to replace them effectively. This poor planning and mis-management of our transfer strategy has now had repercussions on us even being able to finance either a nominal sum for players running out contracts or even a loan move for a striker. Glad Woodward and Co were so good at the financials down through the years though!
 
It's infinitely easier to sign 2023 Jack Butland than it is to sign 2023 Joao Felix. Could be me being wrong though.
 
kaiz said:
An interested list compiled by stats. What do you think about some of the names in there?
https://thedevilsdna.com/?p=273810
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Good list. Fullkrug was one that came to mind immediately for me. Good enough to be 1st choice striker for rest of season and a backup from next season when we will hopefully get a real top striker like Vlahovic or Osimen.
 
Dazzmondo said:
Good list. Fullkrug was one that came to mind immediately for me. Good enough to be 1st choice striker for rest of season and a backup from next season when we will hopefully get a real top striker like Vlahovic or Osimen.
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Exactly. Very much a Sheringham style player who will be useful for two-three years. 25 million fee is a no brainer.
 
Openda also looks very promising from that list but would probably be out of range for us financially.
 
kaiz said:
An interested list compiled by stats. What do you think about some of the names in there?
https://thedevilsdna.com/?p=273810
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Good link there, thanks.

I’m not too excited by any of those but we do need to get another body in.

The problem is we lack penetration when Rashford is not on the pitch. If he’s playing LW then some of those guys on the list (Fullkrug perhaps) can do a job at CF. If Rash is injured or not playing for any other reason, we need someone to run into the box, to run at the goal, to force the action, preferably with pace but if not pace then bloody-mindedness.

So we sort of need someone who can play with Rash when he’s there but also to step up and provide the qualities we lack when Rash is out; if we can’t get one guy to do it all, we might need two extra bodies…
 
OrcaFat said:
Good link there, thanks.

I’m not too excited by any of those but we do need to get another body in.

The problem is we lack penetration when Rashford is not on the pitch. If he’s playing LW then some of those guys on the list (Fullkrug perhaps) can do a job at CF. If Rash is injured or not playing for any other reason, we need someone to run into the box, to run at the goal, to force the action, preferably with pace but if not pace then bloody-mindedness.

So we sort of need someone who can play with Rash when he’s there but also to step up and provide the qualities we lack when Rash is out; if we can’t get one guy to do it all, we might need two extra bodies…
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Felix could definitely provide pace and ability to run at the goal but looks a tricky loan to pull off
 
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