I still remember Anthony was one of stand out player in the list before we signed him. Now he is nowhere to be seen. Maybe it has a lot to do with the system.
The centre-forward market...
- Thread starter Rozay
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I still remember Anthony was one of stand out player in the list before we signed him. Now he is nowhere to be seen. Maybe it has a lot to do with the system.
That is exactly what we need,however finding someone who fits that criteria in January looks a big ask to say the least
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We should throw the kitchen sink at getting Moukoko on a free. Big fat wages and a starting spot. Play Dortmund at their own game.
Agree. We're not really in a position to throw £100m left, right, center and hope.
Plus imo we do not absolutely require a world class striker with ETH style. Someone like Toney would be quite enough. Right age, hungry, PL proven, reasonable fee. Only problem is no way Brentford would sell him in the middle of their season. Unless for some crazy fee.
Some say Ronaldo is on his way out so we definitely need another striker to replace him. But truth is if we play McT there it'd be no difference (or even better) so him leaving actually doesn't have any impact on our squad strength imo. If we can identify the right option we buy if not let's wait to the summer there's no real need for any panic purchase imo. If we buy a striker in Jan even if he turns out no good I don't think the board would agree to buy ETH another one in the summer. Especially if we have to pay big for that said striker.
The reason i feel toney would be good is that it gives us a fully rotatable front line. Kane is obviously better, but brings us a striker we must have/use 24/7.
It has to do with him barely playing this season, the stat is only counting players with at least 600 minutes played in the top 5 league.
The likes of Vlahovic and Osimhen and co would cost 100m. That's money won't be available especially if we're aiming for Bellingham as well. In my opinion we should be realistic. I'd say we should aim at the likes of Moukoko and Thuram whose good talent and will soon be free agents. We can make some great bargains next year with Skriniar replacing Maguire, Laimar replacing Fred, Aouar/Tielemans acting as Eriksen cover/competitor and Moukoko/Thuram replacing Ronaldo.
Not sure how criteria was set, but he has played a total 835 mins for us so far this season.
Only 494 minutes in the league. His ball-carrying stats with United were pretty high before they removed it from fbref.
Oh so that excluding all the cup games then. Fair enough.
I agree on the overall sentiment though I don't agree on Moukoko, considering what we need.
He's a 17yo who, only this year, for the first time, is playing a proper season for Dortmund. Last year he had only 200 mins in the league and across 10 games, so basically mostly late subs. Which, to be clear, is already more than you'd expect from a 16/17yo. But my point is both his age, experience and the league/team where he's plying his trade, are a strong indication that he might not quite be ready to lead the line at OT. Maybe in a couple of years if he continues developing that well.
So, I'm not saying don't buy him, especially if he could be on a free. I do like buying young talent. I'm saying that buying him means we still need a more mature striker that will be better suited to leading the line for several months if Martial is out again next season, like he was this one. You don't want to pin all your hopes on an 18yo from Dortmund. Not for your sake or his.
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Randal Kolo Muani anyone? Having a really good season for Frankfurt so far, with 5 goals and 9 assists in 14 games. Replacing an injured Nkunku for the World Cup as well. Never seen him play to be honest, but he looks a handful with great technique and pace from his YouTube compilation.
Can we get an Ivan Toney thread going..
There are multiple reasons I'm quite wary of a Kane transfer.
- It would cost a bomb in fees and salaries restricting the budget elsewhere. I imagine he'll want a long contract to boot, at least 4 years.
- There will be a media circus and everything will become about Kane almost like it was with Ronaldo. He's the English media's darling striker. The media will put pressure on the player to perform and on the manager to play him a lot.
- We're not a ready team that is only missing a lethal striker to win the title. The chances of him becoming another RVP for us are realistically small. If we have another season where we don't challenge for the league, or where we drop out of the UCL places, Kane could very quickly become a disgruntled, wantaway player.
- While there's a very small chance he flops, if he does, it will be a total wipe-out of a huge investment. He'll surely be given a second season if he starts with a bad one, at the end of which he'd be a 32yo on big money and with at least a couple more years on his contract.
- We've been burned by superstar transfers before and I'm frankly tired of them (personal reason)
So I don't care about a 30 goal striker. I'll happily take a 10-15 goal striker who helps in the press and in defending and in implementing ETH's system. On who works to make the attack a cohesive unit that maximises the output of all our assets like Rashford, Antony, Bruno, Martial, Sancho.
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In normal circumstances I agree with you. However these are not normal circumstances.
A- United are not yet a title contender
B- There aren't many top strikers around and the few that are mint are unavailable. The rest are more like Osimhen type of player who'd cost 70m-100m and who can easily become the next Lukaku or even worse
Thus I think we should thread lightly here. I'd say lets get a top young talent like Moukoko and maybe someone like Thuram, Gapko or Dembele on cheap/free as well and see how it would work out. I'd rather see us giving them a generous signing on fee (20m?) then increase their salary. Thus it would be possible to get rid off if they aren't that great.
Just pay the £75m or so to get Kane and be done with it.
To be fair, you agree with me that if we sign Moukoko we do also need another more ready forward. Just so long as we don't spend exorbitant amounts on a superstar as that other player.
So on that, I fully agree with you.
I don't think Osimhen is realistic in January but I would try for Vlahovic. Juve aren't doing great and he has all the attributes to be a top CF in the PL. I don't think we are getting Bellingham so may as well put that money for a CF who will get us goals.
But because they're not doing great it means they would sell their star striker in the middle of the season? About as likely as Osimhen in January for me. Perhaps even less.
Juve are in the top 4 by only a point and they need to stay there for the UCL money next season. Selling now, when they're highly unlikely to be able to replace him with comparable quality, would be shooting themselves on the foot. However, if they fail to make UCL spots for next season, he might well be up for grabs.
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I have nothing against the presentation which is informative — but it’s the top 5 leagues and immediately a bunch of players in France jump at you. Of course, QoC (quality of competition) has a big impact on stats like this.
In addition, I am always a bit sceptical of how “calibrated” these stats are between leagues. Which plays shall be defined as carries of the ball? Look how hard it is to decide when a play should result in a penalty.
Would be happy with a cheeky bid for Marcus Thuram in January. He should cost no more than £20m with his contract expiring in the summer and he represents some abilities ETH would like from a striker. Then we can go big for an established striker in the summer who would be the first choice with having Thuram as a very good rotation option.
My choice in the summer would be Victor Osimhen as I think his heading ability, work without a ball and movements in and around the box are up to the best in Europe. Ivan Toney is also a player to consider, but I disagree with some posters that he would cost considerably less than Osimhen, Brentford wouldn't let him cheap as he is an important player for them.
My choice in the summer would be Victor Osimhen as I think his heading ability, work without a ball and movements in and around the box are up to the best in Europe. Ivan Toney is also a player to consider, but I disagree with some posters that he would cost considerably less than Osimhen, Brentford wouldn't let him cheap as he is an important player for them.
Either Sesko or get Toney and this Moukoko lad as a squad option.
Surely Brentford know that they can't keep Toney forever - think he would force a move.
Surely Brentford know that they can't keep Toney forever - think he would force a move.
This is a toughie, because there are no stand out names. I wouldn't mind a sneakie loan bid for Jamie Vardy who seems a little out-of-favour at Leicester. We should have bought him four years ago. Short term, quality Premiership player, who I think would be great for us. Give us time to scout the market too.
I agree and have said so earlier in the thread. 12 goals for Holland in WC qualifiers is pretty good going. He ain't the first choice but seems realistic for January which is the key point. No point talking about likes of Toney for January as it just ain't gonna happen, summer maybe.
Depay isn't a No 9. Doesn't score enough goals, he's an all-round forward, we have enough of those.
That is so silly - you don't measure strikers primarily on ball carrying and forward passes! Those are more metrics for attacking midfielders, and most the players on there are indeed attacking midfielders.
I've seen this written by different people but it's no longer accurate
Juve are currently 3rd in the table, have won 6 straight, have beaten Inter and Lazio this month. They started the season poorly, did terrible in CL but serie a form has picked up.
Only way they sell Vlahovic is financial issues. somehow I just don't see it
I don't mean to say he'd be an easy buy but I think he could be more likely to be convinced to move mid season than Osimhen. I definitely would make an attempt to go for him in January.
One guy I am starting to think could be of some interest is Mykhailo Mudryk.
We have been linked to him just recently, but it does not get much attention because he is a out and out LW.
So who is this guy? His nickname is ‘Ukraine Neymar’. That isn’t very telling from a playing style POV. I would more compare him to guys like Mbappe, Bale or even Rashford. He is like really explosive. Superb technique. Some spectacular dribbles. But what sets him apart is that he just blows past people. And he doesn’t do it in like the Dutch league, he is at that level in the CL hands down.
But what awoke my interest of him comes from the information about him that is out there. And we do know a lot since both him and his team have been very outspoken, in a good way.
*Shaktar will want a lot of money for him. Think it is Srna who is the boss there who said that they think he is a top 3 LW in Europe behind only Leao and Vinicius. They even brought up Antony directly and said if he is worth 85, MM is worth like 100 (something like that).
*He wanted out last summer, but Shaktar blocked a move despite bids from like Leverkusen. He is now going for a a move in January.
*In an interview he was asked if he would rather be a starter for Arsenal or a bench player for Real, and he said that he will want to be a starter for sure.
The thing is, he is a top talent and already a really good player. He is available in January. Shaktar’s request will be high, but they are not going to be able to hold out for 90-100m for Mudryk. Most likely we are looking at like 60-70m.
So ultimately — he is by far the biggest and best player available in January. Odds are that on Feb 1, he is the biggest deal done in January 2023.
But who is buying him?
-He has been heavily linked to Arsenal. They are salivating about the opportunity to get him. BUT, he isn’t a starter for Arsenal. They are not breaking up Martinelli-Jesus-Sahka. Right? For Arsenal, he is like ‘oh my good we can get a world class player for 40m which gives us depth compareable to City with Grealish/Fodden’.
-He has also been heavily linked to Real. But of course, he is only back-up to Vinicius there.
-Chelsea are getting Nkunku, and have players there already.
-Liverpool is for sure interested, by they aim to invest heavily in CMs. Just bought Felix and Darwin.
-The one to watch from my POV is Newcastle.
So why would he make sense for us? Thing is, — realistically — he is the only really good player available in January. Gakpo is behind him.
He is a really versatile player, who have played across the forward line for Shaktar. He is basically two footed. Like, do I think whomever buys him from Shaktar for 60m plus addons will make a good signing? Definitely.
He is the perfect striker for ETH? Nope. But Mudryk at LW and Rashford at ST or vice versa (more likely), Mudryk at ST and Rashford at LW — is definitely something ETH can work with.
And I think everyone knows deep down that we should only be making these type of signings. 22 y/o. On the rise, already great. A discount on the price because teams aren’t looking for a player in his main position and Shaktar aren’t in a position to snooze his transfer much longer. Yeah, it is not perfect that he is not an out and out striker. But he has played there. He has all the intangibles to do so. With him and Rashford rotating positions in game, he got potential there. I just would not rule it out.
We have been linked to him just recently, but it does not get much attention because he is a out and out LW.
So who is this guy? His nickname is ‘Ukraine Neymar’. That isn’t very telling from a playing style POV. I would more compare him to guys like Mbappe, Bale or even Rashford. He is like really explosive. Superb technique. Some spectacular dribbles. But what sets him apart is that he just blows past people. And he doesn’t do it in like the Dutch league, he is at that level in the CL hands down.
But what awoke my interest of him comes from the information about him that is out there. And we do know a lot since both him and his team have been very outspoken, in a good way.
*Shaktar will want a lot of money for him. Think it is Srna who is the boss there who said that they think he is a top 3 LW in Europe behind only Leao and Vinicius. They even brought up Antony directly and said if he is worth 85, MM is worth like 100 (something like that).
*He wanted out last summer, but Shaktar blocked a move despite bids from like Leverkusen. He is now going for a a move in January.
*In an interview he was asked if he would rather be a starter for Arsenal or a bench player for Real, and he said that he will want to be a starter for sure.
The thing is, he is a top talent and already a really good player. He is available in January. Shaktar’s request will be high, but they are not going to be able to hold out for 90-100m for Mudryk. Most likely we are looking at like 60-70m.
So ultimately — he is by far the biggest and best player available in January. Odds are that on Feb 1, he is the biggest deal done in January 2023.
But who is buying him?
-He has been heavily linked to Arsenal. They are salivating about the opportunity to get him. BUT, he isn’t a starter for Arsenal. They are not breaking up Martinelli-Jesus-Sahka. Right? For Arsenal, he is like ‘oh my good we can get a world class player for 40m which gives us depth compareable to City with Grealish/Fodden’.
-He has also been heavily linked to Real. But of course, he is only back-up to Vinicius there.
-Chelsea are getting Nkunku, and have players there already.
-Liverpool is for sure interested, by they aim to invest heavily in CMs. Just bought Felix and Darwin.
-The one to watch from my POV is Newcastle.
So why would he make sense for us? Thing is, — realistically — he is the only really good player available in January. Gakpo is behind him.
He is a really versatile player, who have played across the forward line for Shaktar. He is basically two footed. Like, do I think whomever buys him from Shaktar for 60m plus addons will make a good signing? Definitely.
He is the perfect striker for ETH? Nope. But Mudryk at LW and Rashford at ST or vice versa (more likely), Mudryk at ST and Rashford at LW — is definitely something ETH can work with.
And I think everyone knows deep down that we should only be making these type of signings. 22 y/o. On the rise, already great. A discount on the price because teams aren’t looking for a player in his main position and Shaktar aren’t in a position to snooze his transfer much longer. Yeah, it is not perfect that he is not an out and out striker. But he has played there. He has all the intangibles to do so. With him and Rashford rotating positions in game, he got potential there. I just would not rule it out.
Not sure about the calls for Toney. Yeah, he's not world class but you can be sure you'll be paying a world class fee for him. Toney is really suited to Brentford's direct style of play but I really don't think that's where we should be going. Also, we really need goals from our striker and Toney, while on a hot streak, is not a sustainable high scoring forward. Better than what we have but for the money he would cost, I think he should be ruled out.
Another 30 something year old in decline, really you would take that?
Neither of them are an option in January. Oshimen might win the title. The only chance we stand with Vlahovic is in summer if Juve don't make to CL and are in financial trouble. What's the point is selling him in January when they need him for top 4 race?
His club are looking for €100mn and he plays in our most stacked position. We currently have Rashford, Sancho, Garnacho, Elanga and probably Martial who would say LW is their favoured position. No chance with all the actual gaping holes we need to fill that we splurge 100m on the one area we have too much strength in depth even if he might be better than any of them.
Not a centre forward. We have at least 3 players who play LW as their preferred position, including our best forward atm and our hottest young prospect. He makes less than 0 sense for us.
From what I heard he probably cost about £50-60m imo that's a not world class fee these days.
Agree in general, but Martial has numerous times down the years re-iterated that he prefers to be a central striker.
Anthony Martial: 'I want to be a central striker at Manchester United'
Anthony Martial reveals his favoured position for Manchester United
Anthony Martial exclusive: I do get angry, and I'm a striker first and foremost
I just wanted to clear up the confusion on this, because people keep repeating stuff Mourinho said about him being a better LW. Which is not what the player or his current manager think at all.
Gakpo is the one who seems to have ETH’s eye, and even though he’s more of a wide forward he might just kill it at CF.
I’d love to see us bring in a Ruud or Rooney type CF who can score 30+ goals for us, but I suspect ETH wants to set us up so that our 4-5 forwards all chip in with 10-15 goals each rather than putting all our scoring eggs in the basket of one top shelf CF.
None of us know how much we'd have to end up paying for Toney to be fair. Though I don't know how much you think the fee is for a world class forward is either. 'Pool and Chelsea paid £100m for Nunez and Lukaku. You think he'd cost that much? Or half?
Toney has certainly been a late bloomer and working slowly up the football ranks. He was playing League One at 23 years old. He's obviously not some stand out world class centre forward. But I'm not sure your assessment is fair on him. He has shown continuous improvement and solid output in his career.
He was top scorer of League One in 19/20 with 24 goals. He got a transfer to Brentford in the Championship and he immediately became the league's top scorer on his first season there with 31 goals and won promotion. Then he scored a quite impressive 12 goals in 33 games in his first season in the top flight with a club in the bottom half. And now he's currently 10 in 14 for midtable Brentford again.
This might be his ceiling or not, but he's only 26 and entering his peak. There's is nothing on his history to suggest that what he's doing is a black swan that is not sustainable or improvable upon.
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not a great deal of choice, which is why I was so annoyed/disappointed at Ole for missing out on Halaand. Not sure there's anyone in January but if if Mitrovic became available he might be worth a punt. Otherwise we need to find a hidden gem (or not so hidden) in Europe. Everyone is talking about Leao and/or Felix. But this is why I had so hoped the Ronaldo move would have paid off...
I get where you are coming from, this was 100% my opinion like a few hours ago. But a few things:
*Shaktar aren't getting 100mn for him. They killed his transfer in the summer, now they are out of the CL, he is the sole big name available in January. Its going to be around 65m. Its a massive transfer, Shaktar are not strong enough to force clubs to pay more.
*Mudryk is best at LW, no doubt. But he has the talent to play as a striker. He has commented on this himself:
"It’s more comfortable for me when I play on the line where I can show all my potential one against one. I have more space to move to the front and I can create a lot more chances when I play on the line. There are more people in the middle. But, you know, the middle is also OK for me."
*Look, we have been heavily linked to Gakpo and we know ETH have wanted him all along and still wants him. Mudryk is not more of a LW or less of a striker than Gakpo is.
*There are no other options. Perhaps Gakpo, a very very slim chance of Sesko or Felix. Yes, Mudryk is not a perfect fit, he would come in and play with Rashford with him and Rash rotating between going deep on the left, and pushing high up center field.
*I don't really see who is getting Mudryk. For all the other clubs linked to him, he is the clear back-up, rotation player.
Ultimately -- besides the position issue, that 100% is not minor, I agree with you -- if we get Mudryk for 65m plus some add ons, it will be a good signing. If you know the player, he would deliver. If we invest 60-70m, we are getting a lot more money back if we sell him to Real.
At the bottom line, I am not even sure if I want us to make this signing. But I have gone from 100% ruling it out to think that it could be a possibility.