Biden stays winning
The Biden Presidency
- Thread starter Raoul
- Start date
Time for liberals to move the goalpost again and tell us how good this is of Biden to do.
No need, they'll just tell us how much worse trump would be and that's the end of the discussion.
Trump will be netly worse but tge distance is getting narrower and narrower by the day
This is really good stuff because it's a Biden Win not just on immigration, but also a Win against the bad effects of climate change into the indefinite future. Forward-thinking stuff from the man disparaged for his age.
The Woke voters of Commiefornia had passed a referendum banning meat from pigs confined in this way. Taking away this option means that Hardworking Farmers have to spend more money on their livestock, and this increases the price of bacon and pork. With Inflation a big concern among voters, it is important for Biden to shut down the Woke and work with the sensible Republicans and put the pigs - and their prices - back where they belong.
As ever, it's vastly easier and (I guess?) more self-satisfying to post tweets or sarcastically reduce things like immigration to gotcha moments. What I don't ever see is serious, actual intentioned articulation of plans or solutions that could actually happen. Oh great liberals of Redcafe (of which I count myself a member) how does one square this:
- There have been single 2 week periods at the border that have seen as many migrants attempting crossing as in entire years
- The GOP and border states have hugely cut funding and thus officials who can process these crossings
- It is typically the number 2 most important issue to American voters
- Biden and the dems invited members of the house and senate from both sides to come up with a bi-partisan bill to actually create longer-term solutions (including the dreamers, asylum policies etc)
- Once this was done, Trump truthed he didn't like it (because it would be a win for Biden and bipartinship) and so the house GOP sunk it
- They even started investigatiosn against their own senator who led it
It's just a really bad situation, and one which the GOP need to remain salient because it's their whole schtick, and the democrats can't solve because you can't pass legislation alone. Except an executive action. Which Biden has done. And is now getting beaten up for.
- There have been single 2 week periods at the border that have seen as many migrants attempting crossing as in entire years
- The GOP and border states have hugely cut funding and thus officials who can process these crossings
- It is typically the number 2 most important issue to American voters
- Biden and the dems invited members of the house and senate from both sides to come up with a bi-partisan bill to actually create longer-term solutions (including the dreamers, asylum policies etc)
- Once this was done, Trump truthed he didn't like it (because it would be a win for Biden and bipartinship) and so the house GOP sunk it
- They even started investigatiosn against their own senator who led it
It's just a really bad situation, and one which the GOP need to remain salient because it's their whole schtick, and the democrats can't solve because you can't pass legislation alone. Except an executive action. Which Biden has done. And is now getting beaten up for.
Have a guess who said this during the last Trump presidency
Some should just accept they dislike Trump because of his vulgarity and the way he breaks cultural norms rather than anything to do with policy.
Which is pretty much the standard line for most progressive politicians and voters.
Which is pretty much the standard line for most progressive politicians and voters.
Have a guess who said this during the last Trump presidency
It can be both. Its his dumb evangelical cult that is truly worrying. They and him are undermining the democratic process in the most powerful democratic country in the world.
Have a guess who said this during the last Trump presidency
incredible. Zero awareness. Zero principles. Just orange man bad all the way down.There is nothing satisfying about it.
You know it's genuinely creepy that you go back and search for person's posts. And you always do it like it's meaningful, or proving a point, but each time it lacks any depth or nuance, as with all of your posts.Have a guess who said this during the last Trump presidency
Yes, what Trump was doing was terrifying. His new policies are even scarier. He's going to send out local police - maybe across state lines - to round up immigrants. He'll tell you all about it, just listen to him and Stephen Miller.
Nothing of what Biden has just signed is anything like that. It's not SS-like at all. Even if that's what you think, why not talk about that? Why not back it up with substance?
So what's your solution? Somehow searching a football forum for posts from years ago to try and...make a random internet person look bad?
I honestly don't understand some of you. You come on a forum about US politics to bash the current President's policies - and at no point want to engage on the actual policies - how they're shaped, why they've come about and why the US system makes this so difficult. You'd rather point-score I guess to look cool in front of other posters rather than actually engage anything with any depth of discussion. I just don't get it - why bother? What do you get out of it?
If you want to talk about how the US is supposed to deal with the influx of immigrants and asylum seekers: great let's do it. I tried to highlight why it's so hard above. And that there was an actual, bipartisan bill which wasn't nearly liberal enough for me but at least was something that just got kiboshed unliterally by the GOP. Can we talk about that? Or what you believe the right number of immigrants is for the US - even if that's unlimited - and how to logistically deal with the fact that someone has to process those people, and the states on the border are genuinely fully anti-immigration?
Anything like that at all?
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Why bother to debate policies? Let's just wait for whatever Joe Biden's line is on any given issue and then defend it in blocks of text designed to obfuscate your complete moral bankruptcy.
You say "searching for posts to make a poster look bad". Yes! You look really really bad. It's clear that you have no objections to racism, to genocide, to inequality. You only want the boot that stamps on people to have a (D) next to it.
You say "searching for posts to make a poster look bad". Yes! You look really really bad. It's clear that you have no objections to racism, to genocide, to inequality. You only want the boot that stamps on people to have a (D) next to it.
That's because trump would use two boots. Lesser of two evils.
Contradicting oneself always looks bad. No amount of terms like "gotcha moments", "points scoring", "lacks nuance", etc. are ever going to work against that.
I have literally no idea what you're talking about. It's clear I have no objections to racism? To inequality? What the actual f*ck are you talking about? I've argued countless times that inequality remains the largest impediment to human flourishing. And strongly believe that governments are the only way to curb it, and should be.
Racism? Where the hell is that coming from? What is wrong with you?
This is actually impressive, I didn't realise that there were so many who shared these views. I shall take the hint.
You disagree with me on Gaza. That's fine.
What's your take on the US immigration crisis? How would you respond if you were the current administration, in the current conditions? How does his executive action differ from Trump's policies? Are those differences distinct enough to mean they're the same? Can they separate children from families? Can they put them in cages?
Does not having answers to any of that mean you can come on here and attack me? I guess so.
I honestly don't understand how some of you exist in the real world. An issue has to be clearcut, and if you disagree with someone on one thing, then you're forever tainted and your views on the other should be dismissed outright.
Unless you're not actually getting the point: your script about lacking nuance, and demanding solutions from people, is something you exclusively trot out for mainstream Democrats. You were perfectly fine with criticism of Trump and Republican policies, even if it was in the form of a tweet or wasn't followed by a comprehensive proposal for immigration reform. You're going to become fine with this again if Biden loses the election. It's not a principled stance.
I've never understood why people get so frazzled when you throw their own words at them on here, 9/10 they'll attack the activity. It takes very little effort to use the search function it's not creeping through your trash for receipts.
It's not surprising that one would take a lesser reasoned approach against someone hated than someone they support. It is useful to recognise the bias though and question if you could be succumbing to emotion first logic.
It's not surprising that one would take a lesser reasoned approach against someone hated than someone they support. It is useful to recognise the bias though and question if you could be succumbing to emotion first logic.
You can defend Biden's current actions on the basis of being realistic about politics. But then you have to look at his statements about 'upholding our moral responsibility" and "not turn away those fleeing from war" and conclude that those statements lacked depth and nuance. Then he can be criticized on the basis of messaging.
'Grandstanding about an issue and having to walk it back' is one of the most basic political errors, Biden is an extremely experienced politician, he doesn't get the newbie's pass for this one.
'Grandstanding about an issue and having to walk it back' is one of the most basic political errors, Biden is an extremely experienced politician, he doesn't get the newbie's pass for this one.
This is all getting into violating the forum rules of attack the post not the poster.
Regardless of what you say here, the questions in the post remain valid and important. And despite what some useless trolling says, no one believes the answer is "elect Biden, full stop."
Immigration remains an issue to deal with in the 2024 elections so it's valid to ask posters how they think the situation should be addressed moving forward, even if they think the solution is just to have open borders as Republicans continually attack Democrats for supporting. This is different than 2020 when immigration was not nearly such a talked about issue because of Covid. None of this is to defend a Biden policy. It's absurd to reduce the time to get an immigration attorney and personally I oppose that policy. But there needs to be some policy articulated that is not just Biden doing what Trump does. And I don't see many suggestions coming from leftists which feeds into the 'open borders' criticism. Its a fact the Democrats will need an articulated immigration policy that is not Biden doing the shite Trump did and is not just Open Borders but addresses the reality on the ground, ideally in a compassionate way.
So what is your take on immigration in the US? What would you propose? What do you support? Have you researched the issue to have a take on it and if so what is it?
On a side note, I think it's interesting when European posters criticize US immigration policies when their own countries have much stricter immigration policies. Without showing a huge bank balance or having sponsorship from an EU company already willing to hire its virtually impossible for me to move to the UK, Portugal or Sweden for example. Is there anything you are doing in your own country to allow more immigration into your country? What immigration policies do you believe should be changed in the UK so people can immigrate there easier?
If you don't see how these immigration policies are racist I don't know what to tell you.
Have you considered getting into a sports team instead? That way you can pick a side and reflexively support them without having to think about any serious consequences.
No, not even close.
You're literally failing the demanded test right now. You criticize a specific policy, but you don't offer solutions. You say solutions are needed, but you don't present them. I'm aware that you often do in fact have specific policy proposals, so it's not like it's beyond you, but it would still be completely absurd to disregard criticism from you every time you don't.
I don't find that particularly interesting, I have no influence on my country's immigration policies. I'm generally in favour of making it easier for people to move around, but I'm not going to bother writing a long in-depth post about how to best achieve that because it would be a completely pointless waste of time. If that's enough for you to dismiss my opinion, which is the behaviour you're jumping in to defend, then by all means but I think that's really dumb.
This is a bit unfair to ask of europeans in a thread about the biden president.
EU's immigration policies are abysmal and responsible for the deaths of countless people in the mediterranean, but it's not this thread's topic.
I should have formatted that different. The first line about attacking the poster not the poster was more directed to some of the posts above yours that you appear to be defending and yes those posts are attacking the poster not the poster.
So sure, I can provide some of what I believe the Democrat party should be adopting as a solution but I find it a bit ridiculous that you say it would be "completely pointless and a waste of time" for you to write out solutions. You must realize that I also have no influence on Democrat policy either. That doesn't negate the value of actual debate and not just rubbish one liners or pulling up some post from years ago and not offering anything else. I think European countries should have immigration that are more open to people from the Americas and Asia moving there (not just EU citizens moving around) but they likely won't because your countries offer universal healthcare and other benefits and the reality is they don't want to make that easy for immigrants to access that system.
For the US, what the Democrats should be doing is doing some in-depth analysis of the maximum number of legal and illegal immigrants the country can viably take within a year, which is definitely a lot more than what is happening under the GOP or GOP-like policies. They should devote resources to streamlining legal immigration and that includes permanent, things like H1 visas, student visas etc. And then the reality is, illegal immigration is generally good economically. It fills a lot of jobs for less money, helps keep certain costs down, contributes more tax revenue (especially because despite Republican claims they aren't really getting much in the way of government benefits), and overall provides an economic function that couldn't be replicated if there was only legal immigration and no illegal immigrants. There is an optimal number of illegal immigrants but I haven't looked at enough data to know what that exact range might be. But its probably not unlimited so a true open borders policy likely wouldn't work. So there will need to be some form of border control that is done in a compassionate way that allows some illegal immigrants to seep into the country ideally around the optimal number. No amount of draconian deterrents will ever work because the incentives to making it into the country, even as illegals, are too great to deter people from trying. This is, by no means, perfect. There will be some illegal immigrants that get in with the same profile as some that don't. That isn't perfectly fair but I think its still better than what we have now.
Deportations I would base them around crimes and criminal activity but what makes that hard, is that illegal immigrant communities (and some immigrant communities in general) don't report crimes because they fear their own deportation. So there should be some type of policy that makes it impossible to deport or even ask the immigration status of victims of crimes. There needs to be some way to make it more likely that immigrant victims can report everything from domestic abuse to gang violence without fear of themselves being deported.
I'm also open to revising any of this. I know there is some literature making a case for true 100% open borders so if anyone is versed on that I'd like to see the arguments. I think that is a greater political hurdle but I'm open to seeing the arguments.
Okay, then write some solutions (or even just ideas) to US immigration policy.
Posts like your snarky two sentence one a few posts up contribute zero to the discussions and just make these threads useless and tiring to read. Immigration is an important issue in the 2024 US elections, whether its important to you or not and unlike 2020, the Democrats will need to do better articulating on it to win so it is something worth actually discussing not just making snide remarks about.
Follow international law that states everyone has the right to be legally processed and have their claims to get asylum evaluated in a timely manner. Also treat unaccompanied minors as human beings.
This is decent start but it won't be enough which is why I say it's important to acknowledge that some amount of illegal immigration should be accepted. Actually, I shouldnt use that term because I don't think it should "illegal" in a certain sense so undocumented immigrant is a better term.
And to go back to an issue that is important to you I believe any Palestinian should be granted asylum. I know that doesn't solve an underlying problem but while I personally believe the US should have cut aid to Israel a long time ago to force a better settlement, that likely isn't realistically happening so allowing Palestinians asylum is also at least better than what we have now.
I have another idea. Lets US and EU stop fecking around to other countries and maybe people will not be forced to immigrate. Europe would not have the Operation Sophia (now under another name) that was infamous where among other things were paying actual pirates as officials that could tackle boats from Lybia and put them in make up prisons in Lybia where women were raped constantly because they were caged with man. Also actual slave trade was happening there.
The Lybia disaster provoked by the west. The syria /Isis disaster indirectly provoked by the west. And so many more
Another thing that would help is that the west should stop draining resources and brains from the countries that needs to be developed. Also, that they stomp them economically under the banner of free trade.....but not for the items that they could compete against the west and then they stablish protectionist laws. I hear crippling IMF also?
There are many many many things that a government could do and they don't. Why? because there are shit loads of benefits but we don't want to pay the consequences. And the consequences are asylum immigrants caused by the west and economic immigrants caused by the west. That without the west, this countries would be worse off than Europe and US? that is not all Europe and US fault? absolutely most likely yes, but most likely yes they would be in a good enough position to not think on immigrating risking everything. People don't immigate on a whim. Abandoning family, friends, language, culture, etc... At least not en masse
Now, if we feck their life around, I enjoy the privilege position that my country have because we feck their country and I enjoy the taxes on the benefits of the companies that bomb them, reconstruct them, outcompete them and give us cheap oil, then I have to be prepared for ambitious prepared immigrants to take my job at home. Oh, also the moral stand that we should take care of our fellow human people and that I am just privilege to live in a first world country by sheer luck
It's beyond a farce now
Is he trying to sit in that last clip?
I think he is not feeling well and almost fainting?
Seriously, if that is the case, how he can run! is not once or twice! age caught up and there is nothing wrong with it. What is wrong is wanting to continue with this.
He probably pooped himself and doesn't know what to do.
I almost feel sorry for him. He's deteriorating so quickly that he should be resting. How can anyone allow their loved one, who is deteriorating so quickly, to spend their final years in front of the camera, under constant scrutiny?
It seemed like he might be needing to use the restroom or something.