The Biden Presidency

Raoul said:
That's not unusual for the likes of DOJ people. Some of them are installed by one admin and wind up playing roles in the next one. Its not supposed to be a banana republic where each party only nominate extremists from within their own camps.
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It is funny cause leftists want Biden administration to act precisely how Trump and MAGA wanted the Trump administration to act.

Appoint partisan hacks, and call the member of his administration who are not completely partisan as Republicans (same as how MAGA called the likes of Romney RINO). I mean, Garland being Republican, that is quite funny.

At the end of the day, if you go too far left…you end up right.
 
I mean, there are one or two other things in that bill too, but I guess even keeping the US government open now is framed through a single, gazan shaped lens.

Anyone moaning about a bill that has to get through this house is just being deliberately ignorant or obtuse.
 
Beachryan said:
I mean, there are one or two other things in that bill too, but I guess even keeping the US government open now is framed through a single, gazan shaped lens.

Anyone moaning about a bill that has to get through this house is just being deliberately ignorant or obtuse.
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Despite protestations to the contrary it remains neither ignorant, nor obtuse to object to a clause that insists aid to a ravaged people be predicated on them not seeking justice for crimes visited upon them. Plainly speaking anyone saying otherwise demonstrates themselves at best a moron and at worst a supporter for crimes to be without consequence.
 
This bill had to pass an uber-truculent House which meant that, as in all politics, concessions had to have been made. The main priority was keeping our government open for as long as possible until another shutdown looms. Thankfully that had been kicked down the road a considerable distance. The Gaza tragedy just isn't on the radar of Washington politicians nor the majority of likely voters in the November elections. There are undoubtedly other major flaws in the bill, but Biden had to sign it. It was basically out of his control; no politician worth their salt wants to wear the yoke of another government shutdown squarely on their shoulders. It would be suicidal come election time. The tragedy in Gaza was never going to have any effect on this bill's pace to get signed. It simply doesn't register highly enough.
 
calodo2003 said:
This bill had to pass an uber-truculent House which meant that, as in all politics, concessions had to have been made. The main priority was keeping our government open for as long as possible until another shutdown looms. Thankfully that had been kicked down the road a considerable distance. The Gaza tragedy just isn't on the radar of Washington politicians nor the majority of likely voters in the November elections. There are undoubtedly other major flaws in the bill, but Biden had to sign it. It was basically out of his control; no politician worth their salt wants to wear the yoke of another government shutdown squarely on their shoulders. It would be suicidal come election time. The tragedy in Gaza was never going to have any effect on this bill's pace to get signed. It simply doesn't register highly enough.
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That doesn't make it right or acceptable. It also further highlights the absolute fecking moronic stupidity of the fact a shutdown is possible in the first place. It's continuously used as a weapon and the only people who suffer have no say in it whatsoever. It's batshit.
 
calodo2003 said:
This bill had to pass an uber-truculent House which meant that, as in all politics, concessions had to have been made. The main priority was keeping our government open for as long as possible until another shutdown looms. Thankfully that had been kicked down the road a considerable distance. The Gaza tragedy just isn't on the radar of Washington politicians nor the majority of likely voters in the November elections. There are undoubtedly other major flaws in the bill, but Biden had to sign it. It was basically out of his control; no politician worth their salt wants to wear the yoke of another government shutdown squarely on their shoulders. It would be suicidal come election time. The tragedy in Gaza was never going to have any effect on this bill's pace to get signed. It simply doesn't register highly enough.
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I understand the difficulties of the American political terrain, but that shouldn't preclude criticism of a plainly awful clause, or provide a reason why attention shouldn't be brought to it. Sacrificing equity for Palestinians on the altar of the American domestic agenda remains terrible irrespective of the political niceties that required it. Ultimately the American political system produced an unsavoury foreign policy which at the very minimum should attract a reputational cost.
 
langster said:
That doesn't make it right or acceptable. It also further highlights the absolute fecking moronic stupidity of the fact a shutdown is possible in the first place. It's continuously used as a weapon and the only people who suffer have no say in it whatsoever. It's batshit.
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Never said it did make it right or acceptable. It's a gravely flawed system which gets hijacked by pork or agendas. It's absolute batshit that imperils millions every couple of months or so. It's just a sad reality that the Gaza tragedy was most likely going to be glossed over & money apportioned to Israel.
 
Ekkie Thump said:
I understand the difficulties of the American political terrain, but that shouldn't preclude criticism of a plainly awful clause, or provide a reason why attention shouldn't be brought to it. Sacrificing equity for Palestinians on the altar of the American domestic agenda remains terrible irrespective of the political niceties that required it. Ultimately the American political system produced an unsavoury foreign policy which at the very minimum should attract a reputational cost.
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It most certainly deserves criticism, it's just that this outcome was always going to be in the cards. It was as plain as day unfortunately.
 
Ekkie Thump said:
Despite protestations to the contrary it remains neither ignorant, nor obtuse to object to a clause that insists aid to a ravaged people be predicated on them not seeking justice for crimes visited upon them. Plainly speaking anyone saying otherwise demonstrates themselves at best a moron and at worst a supporter for crimes to be without consequence.
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As Calodo posted ahead of me, I'm not for the clause at all. But the framing of a certain section of social media (and the tweet itself) is deliberately making it sound like President Biden and the US Government passed an explicit bill on the matter. It did not, these clauses were part of thousands in an enormous, hugely consequential bill that had to use concessions to get through the insane US political process.

Criticism here needs to be at the right target. Which is the GOP's use of the suspending the US government as a threat to get what wants. Or gerrymandering which enables utter morons to be in the house in the first place.

That's my point on deliberately obtuse. Many people will read that tweet as the authour intended: the US have just passed a bill explicitly on harming Gazans. That is not what happened. In my personal opinion its part of a wider narrative which I do not believe: that the US is equally cupable for the Gazan situation as Netanyahu. The clever coinage of 'genocide Joe'. We're already seeing Biden and the government telling Netanyahu he's gone too far, and Netanyahu being Netanyahu and not giving a flying f*ck. We have Chuck Schumer - in many ways the 3rd or 4th most powerful figure in America calling for a new election in Israel, because Netanyahu is such a danger to not just Gazans but also the future of Israel.

I very much wish Joe Biden would get on TV this afternoon and give a big speech against Netanyahu, I think every cent of the Israeli aid (which is not new here, it's literally the aid already in the budget and agreed last year actually being moved forward - again the tweet's framing is questionable) should be predicated on conditions. But there's a huge movement trying to leverage Gaza as a means to attack the current adminstration at a time when the consequences of that attack will be utterly catastrophic not just for those in that movement, but further the rest of us.
 
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Beachryan said:
That's my point on deliberately obtuse. Many people will read that tweet as the authour intended: the US have just passed a bill explicitly on harming Gazans. That is not what happened.
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I fully understand that and know that wasn't the case, just one of many unfortunate by products and concessions to get funding over the line to prevent more hardship and suffering. However my first reply is still my opinion. The whole thing is a fecking farce.
 
The author "explicitly" calls the bill a "spending bill", not a "harming Gazans" bill. You are imagining things.
 
Beachryan said:
In my personal opinion its part of a wider narrative which I do not believe: that the US is equally cupable for the Gazan situation as Netanyahu.
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How do you describe a regime that finances, arms and offers political cover to another regime's genocidal war?

We can dispute the use of the word "equal", but certainly not the word "culpable".

Ultimately, if you tell the criminal to stop and at the same time you give him weapons, money and immunity, the request for him to stop becomes a very tetric joke on the victims.
 
maniak said:
How do you describe a regime that finances, arms and offers political cover to another regime's genocidal war?

We can dispute the use of the word "equal", but certainly not the word "culpable".

Ultimately, if you tell the criminal to stop and at the same time you give him weapons, money and immunity, the request for him to stop becomes a very tetric joke on the victims.
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Let's not forget veto every UN vote (except the last one)
 
'Equally' culpable or not, the Biden administration has not handled Israel/Gaza well and deserves criticism for it. That's not a left-wing or anti-war or activist position anymore and hasn't been for months. The Washington Post, liberal media of excellence, had an article about Biden and Israel/Gaza. The article states:

Biden’s strategy from the outset rested on a central trade-off: that if he showed Israel unequivocal, even defiant, support early on, he could ultimately influence its conduct of the war. Some administration officials now concede the strategy is heading toward failure, and in private talks, they voice a striking frustration and uncertainty about how the war will end.
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There is a clear drawback in that strategy, the strategy appears to have failed. They now get the drawbacks without the benefits. Sucks but that's life.
 
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No matter how good his domestic record is he will go down in history as the man who enabled Genocide… And he is doing it against the will of his base. (63% disapproval in November and 75 % disapproval now among the Democrats ). And we can imagine the numbers would be much worse for Israel had the MSM media been more balanced in its coverage.



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Pintu said:
No matter how good his domestic record is he will go down in history as the man who enabled Genocide… And he is doing it against the will of his base. (63% disapproval in November and 75 % disapproval now among the Democrats ). And we can imagine the numbers would be much worse for Israel had the MSM media been more balanced in its coverage.



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Republicans steadily proving themselves as either utterly ignorant or straight up psychopaths.
 
The savvy opinion just a few months ago was that only fringe elements of the American electorate could possibly disapprove.
 
Iker Quesadillas said:
The savvy opinion just a few months ago was that only fringe elements of the American electorate could possibly disapprove.
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I don't think that was ever the case as I would not be shocked if a large portion of the democratic base disapproves, but there is a difference between disapproval and withholding/changing ones vote.
 
Pintu said:
No matter how good his domestic record is he will go down in history as the man who enabled Genocide… And he is doing it against the will of his base. (63% disapproval in November and 75 % disapproval now among the Democrats ). And we can imagine the numbers would be much worse for Israel had the MSM media been more balanced in its coverage.
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Its unlikely this will be a prominent consideration in his long term historical record. The things that are usually remembered are wars the US initiated, was actually a participant in, or how they pulled out - ie., conflicts involving US boots on the ground. Vietnam, Gulf War I, Gulf War 2, Afghanistan etc., as well as in Carter's case, large numbers of American hostages in Iran. In Biden's case, his pullout of Afghanistan which involved US troops dying, will be the prioritized as his major foreign policy blunder.
 
Raoul said:
Its unlikely this will be a prominent consideration in his long term historical record. The things that are usually remembered are wars the US initiated, was actually a participant in, or how they pulled out - ie., conflicts involving US boots on the ground. Vietnam, Gulf War I, Gulf War 2, Afghanistan etc., as well as in Carter's case, large numbers of American hostages in Iran. In Biden's case, his pullout of Afghanistan which involved US troops dying, will be the prioritized as his major foreign policy blunder.
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A strange take.

He absolutely will be remembered for enabling genocide. He will also be remembered for veto-ing several ceasefire resolutions by the UNSC, and for his disastrous rhetoric and behaviour in the last six months (red lines, a port to deliver aid, delivering aid by air). He would have been lucky to be remembered as a bumbling decrepit old man of a president, but this will live long into the memory when he's dead and gone.
 
The Corinthian said:
A strange take.

He absolutely will be remembered for enabling genocide. He will also be remembered for veto-ing several ceasefire resolutions by the UNSC, and for his disastrous rhetoric and behaviour in the last six months (red lines, a port to deliver aid, delivering aid by air). He would have been lucky to be remembered as a bumbling decrepit old man of a president, but this will live long into the memory when he's dead and gone.
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I think it matters who is doing the "remembering". Here in the US I would tend to agree with @Raoul , but outside the US? Probably.
 
WI_Red said:
I don't think that was ever the case as I would not be shocked if a large portion of the democratic base disapproves, but there is a difference between disapproval and withholding/changing ones vote.
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This.

Ilhan Omar has already come out & said that Biden will be receiving her vote & wants others to vote for him as well.

The tragedy just won't amount to anything substantial when compared against abortion / women's healthcare & democracy vis a vis votes.
 
calodo2003 said:
This.

Ilhan Omar has already come out & said that Biden will be receiving her vote & wants others to vote for him as well.

The tragedy just won't amount to anything substantial when compared against abortion / women's healthcare & democracy vis a vis votes.
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A muslim woman in Biden's party said she is voting isn't representatice of the muslim Americans vote, I have yet to come across a muslim person who said they will vote Biden when I asked them about it.
 
syrian_scholes said:
A muslim woman in Biden's party said she is voting isn't representatice of the muslim Americans vote, I have yet to come across a muslim person who said they will vote Biden when I asked them about it.
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Well, she certainly is in a position to influence voting decisions.

Albeit undoubtedly less than your number, the muslim Americans in my world say that there isn't a choice in this election, they obviously will be voting for Biden.

They seem to understand not voting against their own self interests as they play out specificallly in this election.
 
WI_Red said:
I don't think that was ever the case as I would not be shocked if a large portion of the democratic base disapproves, but there is a difference between disapproval and withholding/changing ones vote.
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Quite a few posters were pretty steadfast that Biden found himself between a rock and a hard place. That he couldn't possibly do anything other than complete and utter support of Israel because to do so would be political suicide (not just nationally but specifically with Democrats and Independents). I guess those Republicans who will never vote for him anyway will be happy.

As time went on, these calls became slightly more muted, except by a few holdouts, but it then shifted to how he was at least still more amenable to pressure to change tack. Yet here we are, 6 months in, with Biden looking set to approve the sale dozens of jets to Israel.
 
africanspur said:
Quite a few posters were pretty steadfast that Biden found himself between a rock and a hard place. That he couldn't possibly do anything other than complete and utter support of Israel because to do so would be political suicide (not just nationally but specifically with Democrats and Independents). I guess those Republicans who will never vote for him anyway will be happy.

As time went on, these calls became slightly more muted, except by a few holdouts, but it then shifted to how he was at least still more amenable to pressure to change tack. Yet here we are, 6 months in, with Biden looking set to approve the sale dozens of jets to Israel.
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I don’t think I was one of those, but even so that is still not the same thing as approving of the decisions made by Biden. Political pragmatism is not the same thing as unequivocal support. It sucks that our system of government is a simple binary choice with no room for nuance, but that is where we are at. Anyone who doesn’t understand what is at stake simply needs to google “Project 2025”.
 
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