The Argument for Giggs as our Next Manager

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Raoul said:
I would find it more appealing if Giggs were an established/successful manager elsewhere and was returning to United. In the absence of qualifications, I'm afraid we are mortgaging our future success on the romance of the past.
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There is a risk. I acknowledge that. But the reaction to his potential appointment on here is nothing short of hysterical. Anyone who champions Giggs is ridiculed as 'nuts'.

The reality is he is our assistant manager and is being groomed for the top job. The appointment isn't that 'nuts' in that context. Its unorthodox, unconventional and a bit of 'outside the box' thinking in an industry that looks for shortcuts to success all the time. I find the prospect of grooming one of our own exciting. Much more exciting than importing some Pep or Klopp.
 
Von Mistelroum said:
It's quite feasible (likely even) that we'll see this happen within the next few years:

Chelsea - Mourinho
Arsenal - Wenger
City - Guardiola
Liverpool - Klopp
United - Giggs

Is there anyone who genuinely thinks this is going to work out well for us? Honestly, even with Van Gaal come off worst there. The issue of course, is that these are the clubs vying for top 4 most of the time, we might even see that become top 3. Doesn't fill me with confidence about our chances of Europe for a few years.
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Really? So you are convinced that Klopp and Guardiola will work out at Liverpool and City? Thank you Nostradamus.

You know better managers that Klopp/Pep have failed at better clubs than Pool or City. A bit like pension schemes; Past performance is no guarantee of future performance.
 
Listen it's perfectly understandable to be apprehensive about Giggs impending appointment, but exaggerating doomsday scenarios, downplaying his achievements, pretending you know what he is actually like and what he brings to the team and ignoring anything positive anyone has to say about it... It's getting old. Let's not even get started on co92 conspiracies, daft comparisons to random players and apparent clairvoyance... Let's keep it grounded.
 
devilish said:
They appointed Moyes because the goose that used to lay golden eggs told them so. They know absolutely nothing about football so you cant blame them for listen to SAF. I hope they wont do the same mistake twice. The man is a genius but he allowed his emotions to take over his better judgement just as Busby did. We all know how that ended
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Exactly. All I'm saying it that if they were the hard headed business men they're supposed to be they would not have made that decision, no matter who was saying Moyes is the man for the job. You don't need to know anything about football, you just use your business sense, to know that replacing the most important person in your business with someone who has not shown anything like the same kind of results in their previous jobs is a much riskier move, with very limited reward, as against getting someone with a proven track record of achievement in similar roles.

IMO, Giggs is nailed on to be the next United manager, the only reason he's on LVG's staff is to be the heir apparent, Van Gaal would not have had him there if the club didn't want him involved, and I think it will be another Moyesian adventure for a few seasons before we (hopefully) get someone up to the job.
 
Rory 7 said:
Really? So you are convinced that Klopp and Guardiola will work out at Liverpool and City? Thank you Nostradamus.

You know better managers that Klopp/Pep have failed at better clubs than Pool or City. A bit like pension schemes; Past performance is no guarantee of future performance.
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You're saying that football is not predictable and therefore any thoughts or opinions on football are invalid until the situation in question is a matter of history, right? Interesting idea. I had foolishly assumed that the idea of a forum was to discuss our ideas, concerns, predictions and the like and that any comments regarding concerns over the future would be regarded as such and not as actual psychic predictions.
 
There'sOnlyOne said:
Exactly. All I'm saying it that if they were the hard headed business men they're supposed to be they would not have made that decision, no matter who was saying Moyes is the man for the job. You don't need to know anything about football, you just use your business sense, to know that replacing the most important person in your business with someone who has not shown anything like the same kind of results in their previous jobs is a much riskier move, with very limited reward, as against getting someone with a proven track record of achievement in similar roles.

IMO, Giggs is nailed on to be the next United manager, the only reason he's on LVG's staff is to be the heir apparent, Van Gaal would not have had him there if the club didn't want him involved, and I think it will be another Moyesian adventure for a few seasons before we (hopefully) get someone up to the job.
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I think you're mixing being ruthless with being incredibly stupid. No ruthless man whose got no idea of football management would hire two 60-100k a week football directors to than mess with their football decisions they know nothing about

I'll tell you what a ruthless business man would do. He would heed to the advice of the specialists he's paying and expect a return to his investment. If they fail to bring in a quality manager than the owner will probably give these directors another try although he will probably ask for a second opinion just to play safe. Only God doesn't make mistakes once in a while. However if lightning strike twice at the same place than they will probably sack those people, their entire staff and any one remotely linked to them because its evident that they have absolutely no idea what they are doing.
 
Von Mistelroum said:
You're saying that football is not predictable and therefore any thoughts or opinions on football are invalid until the situation in question is a matter of history, right? Interesting idea. I had foolishly assumed that the idea of a forum was to discuss our ideas, concerns, predictions and the like and that any comments regarding concerns over the future would be regarded as such and not as actual psychic predictions.
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It is a forum for discussion but you made a very bold statement. You claim that even with Van Gaal at the helm we will come off worse with Pep at City, Klopp at Pool and so on. I'm taking the mickey out of you for that. If football was that predictable I'd be a millionaire!
 
Rory 7 said:
It is a forum for discussion but you made a very bold statement. You claim that even with Van Gaal at the helm we will come off worse with Pep at City, Klopp at Pool and so on. I'm taking the mickey out of you for that. If football was that predictable I'd be a millionaire!
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Well he may have a point. LVG may have a proven record and is a safer bet than Giggs and Moyes, however he's also an old school type of manager whose set in his ways and hasn't won the CL for decades. His CV is impressive but not impeccable.

There again the difference between LVG and Ryan Giggs is that his CV is as impressive as the top managers out there. So it makes it almost impossible to win a debate whose the best option between them (LVG, Guardiola, Klopp, Ancelotti etc)
 
devilish said:
Well he may have a point. LVG may have a proven record and is a safer bet than Giggs and Moyes, however he's also an old school type of manager whose set in his ways and hasn't won the CL for decades. His CV is impressive but not impeccable.

There again the difference between LVG and Ryan Giggs is that his CV is as impressive as the top managers out there. So it makes it almost impossible to win a debate whose the best option between them (LVG, Guardiola, Klopp, Ancelotti etc)
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Quite. I said that we'd be worse off out of the managerial situation and I stand by that. I don't think many people (other than blinkered United fans) would put Van Gaal over that list these days and even if they would, I was still merely stating my opinion which should be inherently obvious from the nature of a forum and not making a prediction.
 
Rory 7 said:
There is a risk. I acknowledge that. But the reaction to his potential appointment on here is nothing short of hysterical. Anyone who champions Giggs is ridiculed as 'nuts'.

The reality is he is our assistant manager and is being groomed for the top job. The appointment isn't that 'nuts' in that context. Its unorthodox, unconventional and a bit of 'outside the box' thinking in an industry that looks for shortcuts to success all the time. I find the prospect of grooming one of our own exciting. Much more exciting than importing some Pep or Klopp.
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This

afrocentricity said:
Listen it's perfectly understandable to be apprehensive about Giggs impending appointment, but exaggerating doomsday scenarios, downplaying his achievements, pretending you know what he is actually like and what he brings to the team and ignoring anything positive anyone has to say about it... It's getting old. Let's not even get started on co92 conspiracies, daft comparisons to random players and apparent clairvoyance... Let's keep it grounded.
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This

devilish said:
I think you're mixing being ruthless with being incredibly stupid. No ruthless man whose got no idea of football management would hire two 60-100k a week football directors to than mess with their football decisions they know nothing about

I'll tell you what a ruthless business man would do. He would heed to the advice of the specialists he's paying and expect a return to his investment. If they fail to bring in a quality manager than the owner will probably give these directors another try although he will probably ask for a second opinion just to play safe. Only God doesn't make mistakes once in a while. However if lightning strike twice at the same place than they will probably sack those people, their entire staff and any one remotely linked to them because its evident that they have absolutely no idea what they are doing.
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And this.
 
Von Mistelroum said:
Quite. I said that we'd be worse off out of the managerial situation and I stand by that. I don't think many people (other than blinkered United fans) would put Van Gaal over that list these days and even if they would, I was still merely stating my opinion which should be inherently obvious from the nature of a forum and not making a prediction.
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All three managers has an impressive CV however as I said with LVG their CV is far from perfect

A- Klopp - He's been great at Mainz and Dortmund, especially at the latter club were he built an impressive squad spending peanuts for it. Having said that, he somehow lost his way at the end of his Dortmund career and he had never managed outside Germany.

B- Guardiola - He couldn't have had a better start of career. A treble in his first season as manager is something unparalleled in football. Having said that, he always played safe moving from the best club in the world to its only competitor. There's no SAF's version of Aberdeen in his career and winning with Barcelona is impressive but hardly difficult (Luis Enrique won the treble there too and he was cack with Roma)

I believe that the safer bets for an EPL club are Mourinho and Ancelotti. Both have a proven record both in the EPL and beyond. Having said that there's no guarantees in football.
 
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Gol123 said:
In the documentary where he was followed in management, his process for picking players was amateur hour with little reasoning behind it. His own statements about finding the job extremely stressful and not being able to sleep at night. The reports about him turning up to train like a player rather then as a manager (Nicky Butt I think it was who said that?) and his insistence on 'the United way' in his press conferences. He just gives off the same vibe as a lot of English pundits when he spoke in interviews and is also way too sheltered within the Ferguson bubble of football which only worked for Ferguson.
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Very good comment. I also noticed this. The thing where he turned up as a player rather than the manager was I believe the day after he was appointed. Giggs is the one who said in his interview that Nicky Butt was the one who suggested to him that maybe he should just stand back and take stock (obviously not those exact words). I remembered shouting at the tv 'but you should know that already Ryan!':lol:
It seemed such a logical step to take, yet Giggs showed no awareness of the situation we were in at that point. Nor did he feel that maybe the players should be his first concern, and then of course start organising things for the next match. No assistant manager jobs are going to inject him with the necessary personality needed for a role such as this. Baffling that people think this is a good idea. :rolleyes:
 
Walrus said:
Alternately, it shows that experience at any club that isnt United (or perhaps the likes of Bayern and Barca) doesnt really mean much when it comes to managing United.
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Could well be but I'd feel much happier knowing the the club is in the hands of someone with a proven track record at the highest level than someone who played for us for an life time.
 
Why not? Losing doesnt hurt as much as it did pre- Moyes, but this time we would be doing it together with a club legend. And back to playing football the United way:drool::drool:

Giggs( Manager), Scholes ( First team coach), Phil Neville ( Assistant coach), Beckham (Cheerleader). It would be a marketing dream. Bring back Fergie in a general manager role like Sir Matt did in the past.
 
K2K said:
Why not? Losing doesnt hurt as much as it did pre- Moyes, but this time we would be doing it together with a club legend. And back to playing football the United way:drool::drool:

Giggs( Manager), Scholes ( First team coach), Phil Neville ( Assistant coach), Beckham (Cheerleader). It would be a marketing dream. Bring back Fergie in a general manager role like Sir Matt did in the past.
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:rolleyes:

Beckham (Cheerleader) - :lol:
 
So to sum up:

- no managerial experience
- no experience of life outside Old Trafford (and 90% of it under the same manager)
- (more subjectively) does not convey any great intelligence or charisma
- the team most likely to challenge the existing Top 4 have just hired Klopp
- we have huge revenues and the resources to attract almost any manager

Why on earth would we take such a gamble? It would be slightly less depressing than in 2013 when we appointed a 50 year old with 10 years of mid-table experience as it at least possible that Giggs has a higher ceiling but he should still be nowhere near the shortlist.
 
K2K said:
Why not? Losing doesnt hurt as much as it did pre- Moyes, but this time we would be doing it together with a club legend. And back to playing football the United way:drool::drool:

Giggs( Manager), Scholes ( First team coach), Phil Neville ( Assistant coach), Beckham (Cheerleader). It would be a marketing dream. Bring back Fergie in a general manager role like Sir Matt did in the past.
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what. no place for Butt and Gary Neville?
 
Imagine if Gigg's was to be successful and lead us to glory.....Could there be a better scenario than that? I can't think of one....Can United really afford not to appoint a man who would make just about every trophy we win taste better than any other manager in the world.....?
 
I think the caf posters are majority risk adverse so I can see where they are coming from but I'd love for it to happen and to work. I think it will happen, will it work? That's anyone's guess...

Some of us would take the gamble, some of us wouldn't... That's the split, so let's stop painting those on the other side of the argument as idiots, and just accept that we are looking at it differently...

Majority of the caf lost their shit when we opted for Martial instead of Pedro... That's looking like it will work out. Make of that what you will...
 
RedFish said:
Imagine if Gigg's was to be successful and lead us to glory.....Could there be a better scenario than that? I can't think of one....Can United really afford not to appoint a man who would make just about every trophy we win taste better than any other manager in the world.....?
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I can't imagine many better scenario's than putting my entire net wealth on a million-to-one shot at the bookies and winning, but that doesn't mean I should do it. In fact it would be totally idiotic.
 
RedFish said:
Imagine if Souness was to be successful and lead us to glory.....Could there be a better scenario than that? I can't think of one....Can Liverpool really afford not to appoint a man who would make just about every trophy we win taste better than any other manager in the world.....?
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dare2dream la.
 
Tarrou said:
I can't imagine many better scenario's than putting my entire net wealth on a million-to-one shot at the bookies and winning, but that doesn't mean I should do it. In fact it would be totally idiotic.
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He's not going to manage the club by himself. I don't believe any manager coming in will have free reign to do whatever he wants ground up. Those days are gone. United do not have a 'director of football' but the club is more robust than a house of cards. Gigg's being appointed needn't and won't be the the life or death scenario as some would imagine it. What it would be, is an opportunity of something special that ought not to be beyond the understanding of any United fan remotely familiar with the club's history.
 
Tarrou said:
I can't imagine many better scenario's than putting my entire net wealth on a million-to-one shot at the bookies and winning, but that doesn't mean I should do it. In fact it would be totally idiotic.
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Exaggerating for effect? Or do you really find that to be an apt metaphor? If so I won't bother trying to explain why it's not...
 
RedFish said:
He's not going to manage the club by himself. I don't believe any manager coming in will have free reign to do whatever he wants ground up. Those days are gone. United do not have a 'director of football' but the club is more robust than a house of cards. Gigg's being appointed needn't and won't be the the life or death scenario as some would imagine it. What it would be, is an opportunity of something special that ought not to be beyond the understanding of any United fan remotely familiar with the club's history.
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I'm sure everyone gets the romance behind appointing Giggs, but that doesn't make any more logical. It would be a huge gamble and an unnecessary one, in my opinion, for two reasons;

1 There are most likely world-class managers who'd want the job

2 There is absolutely no reason why Giggs can't take a job somewhere else and prove he has what it takes to manage. If he's good enough, he'll still get his chance down the line. If he isn't, then we've saved ourselves from making a mistake.
 
So, in a couple of years it could be:

Arsenal - Wenger
Chelsea - Mourinho
Liverpool - Klopp
City - Guardiola
United - Giggs

One is not like the others...
 
ottosec said:
So, in a couple of years it could be:

Arsenal - Wenger
Chelsea - Mourinho
Liverpool - Klopp
City - Guardiola
United - Giggs

One is not like the others...
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I know right. What a mismatch.
 
Von Mistelroum said:
It's quite feasible (likely even) that we'll see this happen within the next few years:

Chelsea - Mourinho - might not make it past this season
Arsenal - Wenger - despite twatting us is still Wenger
City - Guardiola - No guarantee of ever happening
Liverpool - Klopp - LFC still wont dine at top transfer table
United - Giggs - You can tell from 4 games that he wont be a good manager?

Is there anyone who genuinely thinks this is going to work out well for us? Honestly, even with Van Gaal come off worst there. The issue of course, is that these are the clubs vying for top 4 most of the time, we might even see that become top 3. Doesn't fill me with confidence about our chances of Europe for a few years.
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Im amazed at how many visionaries and soothsayers and fortune tellers we have on this fecking site.
 
afrocentricity said:
Exaggerating for effect? Or do you really find that to be an apt metaphor? If so I won't bother trying to explain why it's not...
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It's perfectly apt because it demonstrates the principle of risk vs. reward, which the post I was replying to had completely ignored.
 
Tarrou said:
It's perfectly apt because it demonstrates the principle of risk vs. reward, which the post I was replying to had completely ignored.
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It demonstrates your grasp on the principle of risk and reward that's for sure...
 
If he didn't bang his brother's wife or that reality star with the huge boobs this place would feel better about this pending appointment.
 
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