The Americas Draft, QF1: Tuppet vs Skizzo/Pat

Considering players at their peak, who will win the match?

  • Total voters
    21
  • Poll closed .
Joga Bonito said:
Aye, when I logged off it was 6-1 in your favour and I thought that it was way too harsh on Tuppet but when I logged on again today, it was 10-7 in tuppet's favour which was quite the turnaround.

Voted for you as I figured the Joya-Ronaldo duo would probably just about edge it for you in a tight match. Not much between both sides.
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Surprised it was that bad.

I like the format myself but a big part of it is we shouldn't be posting scorelines or alluding to them. It sort of defeats the purpose of making them secret. You could argue some fence-sitters voted Tuppet after he wailed yesterday and others may vote Pat now when, in fact, it's a close game and people should just vote blind on their own preference.

The managers vote thing should be fine so long as the voters can be viewed. The problem in the other game is I don't think anyone can see the actual votes so we may not be able to tell who actually wins. Here we can easily discard Skizzo engaging in the classic trick of voting for the oppo even when it shouldn't make a difference :lol:

Not being able to switch votes is a bit of a bummer though. I see why it was set up that way but I've mulled over switching several times and it has nowt to do with the scoreline.
 
Not to mention the attacking width provided by one of the finest attacking full back of this decade - Dani Alves would stretch the pitch and provide incredible attacking thrust from outside right positions as he has always did. He is also one of those players who are well proven outside the Barca system, his season with Sevilla is one of the best I have seen a player being that influential from right back position, where he was the playmaker of the team and almost dragged them to a title -

 
He's probably the most familiar player on the pitch, but it never hurts to post a reminder of just what Ronaldo was capable of:



With Joya stretching Tuppet's defence, space will open up for Ronaldo to utilise that jaw-dropping speed and skill to terrorise the opposition CBs.
 
antohan said:
The problem in the other game is I don't think anyone can see the actual votes so we may not be able to tell who actually wins.
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That would be an interesting format...

But seriously, I don't see why that would be the case. The votes are public. If you vote, you should be able to see who has voted. I will double check that the option has been enabled.
 
Pat_Mustard said:
Two key points going into the final stretch:

- Tuppet's lack of attacking width on his left wing: With Victor Andrade as a defensive left back,
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One last thing, I have clearly mentioned in OP and shown in the tactics picture that Victor Andrade is not given a defensive remit. He is clearly instructed to go up and attack on the left side. He probably does not have the technical skills of Alves at opposite end but he would not just let the left wing remain empty, if there is space in front of him and we are attacking he would most definitely support the attack from left back side.
 
antohan said:
I like the format myself but a big part of it is we shouldn't be posting scorelines or alluding to them. It sort of defeats the purpose of making them secret. You could argue some fence-sitters voted Tuppet after he wailed yesterday and others may vote Pat now when, in fact, it's a close game and people should just vote blind on their own preference.
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Fair enough.

antohan said:
The managers vote thing should be fine so long as the voters can be viewed. The problem in the other game is I don't think anyone can see the actual votes so we may not be able to tell who actually wins. Here we can easily discard Skizzo engaging in the classic trick of voting for the oppo even when it shouldn't make a difference :lol:
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Aye, it's a feckin headache alright :lol:
 
Tuppet said:
As mentioned in OP, Labruna is not supposed to be an outside left, but an inside left, the position he has always played. Having 2 fluid forwards who are not wingers has never hampered great attacking sides before. There are countless examples from Neymar, CR7 to Martial playing on the left side and providing both width and direct attacking thrust. Which is the same Labruna would do. Another thing is if Forlan is not facing Labruna, then what exactly is his role on the pitch ? would he just allow Labruna to run on the central defenders? along with Romario, there is no way Pat's central defensive partnership can keep both Labruna and Romario quiet.

Labruna - Romario - Scarone is one of the finest trio in this draft, its too much firepower to be contained by the defeding team.
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He'll be tucking in to create a much more solid and compact defensive unit, whereas you don't have that luxury with Joya consistently providing width on our left wing and strentching Dani Alves to his limit,

Labruna had Loustau providing the traditional width, Neymar has two of the most attacking left backs around providing the overlaps behind him in Alba and Marcelo, and Ronaldo has Marcelo. Martial generally adopts very (excessively) wide starting positions for us. Here you have Victor Andrade, and with all due respect its a stretch to imagine him replicating the likes of Marcelo in attacking style.
 
Chesterlestreet said:
But seriously, I don't see why that would be the case. The votes are public. If you vote, you should be able to see who has voted. I will double check that the option has been enabled.
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I think it is not for our game. At least I can't see who voted for who. Didn't bring it up as I thought you tested it like that :)
 
Tuppet said:
One last thing, I have clearly mentioned in OP and shown in the tactics picture that Victor Andrade is not given a defensive remit. He is clearly instructed to go up and attack on the left side. He probably does not have the technical skills of Alves at opposite end but he would not just let the left wing remain empty, if there is space in front of him and we are attacking he would most definitely support the attack from left back side.
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Is there any evidence of him having the requisite skills or experience to fulfil the modern attacking full back role though? If he was a defensive full back in an era of defensive full backs its a tough ask to view him as fulfilling that remit.
 
Enigma_87 said:
I think it is not for our game. At least I can't see who voted for who. Didn't bring it up as I thought you tested it like that :)
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Nope - it's a bug of some sort, I'm afraid.

The option is gone. No idea what it's about, and I'm 99% sure it was enabled when the poll was created. At any rate, will post in the relevant thread - the managers can then decide what they want to do.
 
Pat_Mustard said:
Not really, I've just been focused on answering stuff that's came up in the thread, and his role was fairly self-explanatory so it didn't require much elaboration in the (too short, last minute) write up. Also, our width advantage has been consistently mentioned, so I took it as a given that people were recognising the role he was playing here. In the previous match we wanted him switching wings more and targetting the other full back on occasion, but here he was always going to get more joy targetting Alves, and his stated brief was to keep Alves pegged back, take him on and/or exploit the lapses in his positioning. Ronaldo is always going to be the focal point of this attack, but I don't see Joya being isolated or marginalised with someone like Bochini orchestrating our play and the cerebral Junior behind him.

I did make a post pointing out how narrow Tuppet's left wing is when he's attacking, in contrast to ours with Joya as one of the best natural wingers in the draft.
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I think Joya doesn't get much joy(pun intended) in this draft. He's one of the top left wingers for me and probably a decisive figure in this game as well.
 
Pat_Mustard said:
He'll be tucking in to create a much more solid and compact defensive unit, whereas you don't have that luxury with Joya consistently providing width on our left wing and strentching Dani Alves to his limit,

Labruna had Loustau providing the traditional width, Neymar has two of the most attacking left backs around providing the overlaps behind him in Alba and Marcelo, and Ronaldo has Marcelo. Martial generally adopts very (excessively) wide starting positions for us. Here you have Victor Andrade, and with all due respect its a stretch to imagine him replicating the likes of Marcelo in attacking style.
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Pat_Mustard said:
Is there any evidence of him having the requisite skills or experience to fulfil the modern attacking full back role though? If he was a defensive full back in an era of defensive full backs its a tough ask to view him as fulfilling that remit.
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I sadly don't really have any evidence (there is very little footage available) But I am basing this on the fact that he was a right half back and its part of his role to go up and down the pitch. Much like Vogts or Burgnich his great defensive displays against Zizinho and Czibor have clouded the judgement of his attacking qualities, but I am fairly certain he did not resemble a modern center back he was decidedly a full back and even a defensive full back go up and down the pitch like Thuram or Abidal.
 
Pat_Mustard said:
Is there any evidence of him having the requisite skills or experience to fulfil the modern attacking full back role though? If he was a defensive full back in an era of defensive full backs its a tough ask to view him as fulfilling that remit.
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He can fulfill the modern fullback role but it would be more Abidal than Marcelo. He'll get up the flank and link up well, just not in barnstorming fashion but offering an option to keep Forlán guessing.

He won't boss a flank single-handedly like a Zanetti/Facchetti would.
 
On Joya troubling Alves it could certainly happen but Alves at his peak has kept Cristiano quite while providing lot of attacking support. As good as Joya is he is no Cristiano and I think Alves would deal with him just fine -

 
Tuppet said:
I sadly don't really have any evidence (there is very little footage available) But I am basing this on the fact that he was a right half back and its part of his role to go up and down the pitch. Much like Vogts or Burgnich his great defensive displays against Zizinho and Czibor have clouded the judgement of his attacking qualities, but I am fairly certain he did not resemble a modern center back he was decidedly a full back and even a defensive full back go up and down the pitch like Thuram or Abidal.
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antohan said:
He can fulfill the modern fullback role but it would be more Abidal than Marcelo. He'll get up the flank and link up well, just not in barnstorming fashion but offering an option to keep Forlán guessing.

He won't boss a flank single-handedly like a Zanetti/Facchetti would.
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Cheers lads. I can be more even-handed now that the match has ended, and the Abidal comparison seems reasonably fair to me. Penalties then?
 
antohan said:
Surprised it was that bad.

You could argue some fence-sitters voted Tuppet after he wailed yesterday and others may vote Pat now when, in fact, it's a close game and people should just vote blind on their own preference.
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:lol::lol:
To be honest I was resigned to lose the game and was just trying to put Labruna across. I didn't even put the score line in there, but if that influenced people well thats probably unfair.
 
Enigma_87 said:
I think Joya doesn't get much joy(pun intended) in this draft. He's one of the top left wingers for me and probably a decisive figure in this game as well.
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It's a shame, I can empathise with Pat though, I picked him in a draft once and it was like he wasn't even there. It's a shame there's so little footage on the web, if only the state TV channel bothered dust off their reels and put them in digital format...

I banged on about him one game, the next I just couldn't be fecked anymore. He was facing the defensive car crash that is Wim fecking Suurbier and still getting no joy.
 
antohan said:
It's a shame, I can empathise with Pat though, I picked him in a draft once and it was like he wasn't even there. It's a shame there's so little footage on the web, if only the state TV channel bothered dust off their reels and put them in digital format...

I banged on about him one game, the next I just couldn't be fecked anymore. He was facing the defensive car crash that is Wim fecking Suurbier and still getting no joy.
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I think @Chesterlestreet picked him once as well, but no emphasize either. It's understandable however that Pat would address other matters when called upon, it's usually how this thing goes in a game.
 
Tuppet said:
:lol::lol:
To be honest I was resigned to lose the game and was just trying to put Labruna across. I didn't even put the score line in there, but if that influenced people well thats probably unfair.
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It worked in that it got me into clarifying the whole Labruna-Romario clusterfeck.

It was quite strange because it was only when I started replying to Aldo re: Walter Gomez that I realised I was describing someone like Romario and how ridiculous the whole thing was to begin with.
 
Thanks for the replies.

Not necessary to tell the story (1-0, 1-1, oh 1-1, 3-2...) IMO
 
Chesterlestreet said:
Christ, what a move. Why the feck did he do that?
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Presumably to cancel Pat's vote and make it neutral and not 'impact the scorelines' (although it did indirectly). Makes sense on that accord but yeah, Tuppet didn't have that privilege without an AM.
 
Alright - it's pens, then.

There's no way in hell I'm doing them, though - so knock yourselves out. Anyone who wants the job is free to proceed.

In the future we need a clear rule on this - if we're to stick with this format. One vote per management team - and you have to vote for yourself. AMs will have to be updated via PM. If they go ahead and vote for the other guy - the vote stands as a normal one. Something like that.
 
Chesterlestreet said:
Alright - it's pens, then.

There's no way in hell I'm doing them, though - so knock yourselves out. Anyone who wants the job is free to proceed.

In the future we need a clear rule on this - if we're to stick with this format. One vote per management team - and you have to vote for yourself. AMs will have to be updated via PM. If they go ahead and vote for the other guy - the vote stands as a normal one. Something like that.
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Apologies if it confused anyone. That's why I posted it early on that I had voted to see the score. Pat told me via pm that he voted, so I just put mine on the other side to cancel it out. Complete oversight that Tuppet voting would cause me to throw it off again :lol:
 
Skizzo said:
Apologies if it confused anyone. That's why I posted it early on that I had voted to see the score. Pat told me via pm that he voted, so I just put mine on the other side to cancel it out. Complete oversight that Tuppet voting would cause me to throw it off again :lol:
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No problem, man - no rule or standard has been posted, after all.

Besides, it hasn't fecked up anything beyond the cosmetics of the thing.
 
I'm off to get some work done - so, like I said, I'm leaving the penalty business to anyone who wants to handle it.

If nobody does, I'll flip an e-penny later on.
 
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