The All Time ODI Cricket Draft QF 3: Crappy vs MJJ

Who will win the ODI?

  • Total voters
    10
  • Poll closed .
prath92 said:
Tests and ODI are 2 different animals man. Based on tests, Sunil Gavaskar is better than Sehwag but I doubt you would choose Gavaskar over Sehwag in a ODI game right?
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They are but if you are making an argument that he cant play at all on bowler friendly wickets then its the same for tests or odis. Great tests match players generally score well in ODIs, the only argument can be whether he will slow things down and we all know he scores at a brisk rate.
 
MJJ said:
He doesnt in the last three years, before that he was a leggie. Why disregard his tests averages? If your whole argument is that he is a shit player who can only score on flat pitches.
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No I think he's a shit ODI player.
 
MJJ said:
My logic was bowler friendly conditions, unless its only NZ in which they didnt play at all. Anyways this is useless, you cant make an argumetn based on conditions,individual matchups or stats. Just post hyperbole based on nothing .
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Ofc, this is a fantasy match. The point is to expand on player suitability and factors that influence the game.

If we are going by stats alone, we may as well run the simulator and finish this off. No need for match threads at all.
 
Edgar Allan Pillow said:
Ofc, this is a fantasy match. The point is to expand on player suitability and factors that influence the game.

If we are going by stats alone, we may as well run the simulator and finish this off. No need for match threads at all.
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I can post videos of viv struggling against Pakistan? I really cant see how you can ignore the poor track record of a player, through out his career no less, against a side. That too in his prime, even if this is a fantasy match up you have to take that into account. Just like in football drafts, if a defender has almost always gotten the better of an attacker, we take that into account. Dont disregard it by saying oh he is a great footballer, he will make it work.
 
prath92 said:
I think Lloyd is a very good batsman though who often played at 6 and scored quickly. Kapil Dev is also a handy batsman. I disagree with viv and smith comparison. Smith is good but Viv even with the Imran struggles is still better. I don't even know if smith has a decent ODI score outside of Australia. And an average of 34 is actually not that bad tbh. Anything over 30 is good. We are talking of a few games here. Windies almost always chased in the 80s afaik so it wouldn't be possible to score a lot especially given scores of 200 was a big score then.



He had the slower in swinging Yorker but was never a true swing bowler like Akram or Waqar or someone like that. He was off the Holding, Garner mould in that he would bowl in with extreme pace and bounce and try to make them uncomfortable or. Not as good as them of course.

And yes warne is a trump card but players (like KP or smith) are great players of spin and are sensible enough not to throw their wickets away going after warne when they could get better of the bowlers who bowl at pace and use it to score faster. I think maxwell at that stage (the last 10 or so) would be definitely a good bet.
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An ODI career average of 34 between the start of Viv Richards' career and his day of retirement would be the 25th best of that time. As a comparison, KP's ODI career average of 40 odd is the 25th best between the start of his career and his last ODI. (this is all using a minimum of 900 runs, which is what viv scored vs Imran's pakistan).
 
MJJ said:
They are but if you are making an argument that he cant play at all on bowler friendly wickets then its the same for tests or odis. Great tests match players generally score well in ODIs, the only argument can be whether he will slow things down and we all know he scores at a brisk rate.
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Not a requirement though. As I said Gavaskar is a top top test player who was decent at best in ODIs. Justin Langer is another who is probably a top class test player who never succeeded in ODIs. V V S Laxman who though wasn't poor in ODIs was nothing special and would probably not make it top 20 Indian ODI players.
 
prath92 said:
Not a requirement though. As I said Gavaskar is a top top test player who was decent at best in ODIs. Justin Langer is another who is probably a top class test player who never succeeded in ODIs. V V S Laxman who though wasn't poor in ODIs was nothing special and would probably not make it top 20 Indian ODI players.
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All three are slow batsman though, and smith has proven that he can score in ODIs. The argument is whether he can do it away from australia which his test match stats proves. Thats not true for either of the three.
 
How many times has Imran taken Viv's wicket?

An average of 19 is poor but if some of the dismissals were by players not in the draft then it's an irrelevant argument.
 
Boycott said:
How many times has Imran taken Viv's wicket?

An average of 19 is poor but if some of the dismissals were by players not in the draft then it's an irrelevant argument.
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7 times in 36 matches at an average of 33 runs per dismissal. Viv got 3 fifties in those 7 matches.
 
MJJ said:
All three are slow batsman though, and smith has proven that he can score in ODIs. The argument is whether he can do it away from australia which his test match stats proves. Thats not true for either of the three.
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The point still stands. I'm not saying smith is not a good batsman but there is no correlation between test performance and LOI. In tests if a pitch supports swing you have the option to play patiently and Punish poor balls alone whereas you don't have that luxury in ODI. The whole mindset is different. I think that's what @Skills meant too. Aus pitches have been flatter for sometime now in comparison with 80s and 90s.

Skills said:
An ODI career average of 34 between the start of Viv Richards' career and his day of retirement would be the 25th best of that time. As a comparison, KP's ODI career average of 40 odd is the 25th best between the start of his career and his last ODI. (this is all using a minimum of 900 runs, which is what viv scored vs Imran's pakistan).
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Yeah I always take that if you average more than 30 you have a good enough record as well. You can't expect all players to have averages of 40 every region or every sample that you take. Especially when it's arbitrary anyways.
 
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Viv richards' career dismissal summary. Seems like the Pakistani bowlers he really struggled against were Qadir and Nawaz. Imran got him more times (because he played him more than anyone else), but had to go for a few runs before getting his wicket.
 
Boycott said:
Take it easy with the conditions. It's a random draw. It's not fair to cling onto a condition stat because we don't select players on how they fared in a sample of games in one country, we pick them on career/peak form. Viv is a GOAT player. No one is going to drop him because he averaged low in NZ.

Plus the Imran-Viv narrative is being over done. Imran has ten overs. He may not have much to bowl at Viv if the openers fire. Waqar or Steyn may be the match changers.

Lets be more objective about thism play style is the first barometer. Then use stats if you must to back it up.
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No no. As per MJJ- Anwar is practically useless, Smith can't bat with good SR (when corrected he can't bat fast since he will be playing alongside Kallis), Viv is walking duck, Kallis will stall the whole innings, Llyod is one innings wonder.

I agree with the last line. Why is saying Cairns is better player than Maxwell so controversial? Who cares just about the stats? I have seen both of them play plenty and I am comfortable with that judgement. If you disagree then no need to mock by posting stats. If you go by stats alone then there are many many openers better than Sehwag for example.
 
I am amazed that MJJ is bringing test cricket in..... all the whilst virtually calling Kallis a shit ODI batsman.
 
crappycraperson said:
No no. As per MJJ- Anwar is practically useless, Smith can't bat with good SR (when corrected he can't bat fast since he will be playing alongside Kallis), Viv is walking duck, Kallis will stall the whole innings, Llyod is one innings wonder.

I agree with the last line. Why is saying Cairns is better player than Maxwell so controversial? Who cares just about the stats? I have seen both of them play plenty and I am comfortable with that judgement. If you disagree then no need to mock by posting stats. If you go by stats alone then there are many many openers better than Sehwag for example.
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Again, hyperbola and hypocrisy.
 
How often will Viv be facing Imran or Waqar? They'd be starting innings against crappy's openers, right? Even if we assume an early wicket say in 6th or 7th over...Viv will be facing them only 2 or 3 overs max. After than Gough or Steyn will take over.
 
Yes, it got a bit heated but if I recall the game in manager's draft was the same as well.
 
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