Are you even reading EAP's post? Its weird you are taking this stance when the mod has said otherwise.
The All Time ODI Cricket Draft QF 3: Crappy vs MJJ
- Thread starter Norris
- Start date
Are you even reading EAP's post? Its weird you are taking this stance when the mod has said otherwise.
Mccullum and Fleming are more consistent than smith and anwar overseas. Viv has an average of 19! in matches involving imran.
So Mccullum,Fleming and Smith are more consistent and will score mroe than smith,anwar and viv.
Posting so its not at the bottom of the page.
Gramme smith is class in run chases. He pretty much started the onslaught for the world record chase.
Non sense. Smith scored 90 odd in very quick time in SA's chase of 434 for starters. That's just one example from the top of my head. Kallis will ofcourse have a role to play. On such a pitch, he is an invaulable asset against your bowlers. Also absurd, how you dismiss Llyod.. if the man can score 100 off 80 odd balls in a WC final when his side is down 3 wickets chasing a total against an attack that had Lillie, he sure will be factor in this chase.
They very fact you think you will score 300+ in such conditions is heights of ridiculousness. Early advantage for seam bowling will mean that some of your top order batsmen will be back in the hut and also make it much more difficult for BM to execute his game plan. After that it is upto Lara mostly to rescue it for your lot.
He had gibbs there to help him with the runrate. Here he will have kallis slowing things down.
Lloyd is going to come in at 5. If he is in early, you have pretty much lost.
Still persisting with this? EAP has said that the condiitons will favor seam bowling throughout the match. How are you going to chase a target when you have two batsman who are going to be back in the pavilion pretty quick based on history?
Mccullum and Smith have made their name in bowler friendly conditions, absurd you think they are going to fall quickly.
They will be chasing 400 odd in this pitch,.. will they
Here is G.Smith's record chasing
44.14 Avg, 81.58 SR, 7 100s/ 27 50s.
Useless for chase he is is.
Stop lying at least
They will be chasing 400 odd in this pitch,.. will they
Here is G.Smith's record chasing
44.14 Avg, 81.58 SR, 7 100s/ 27 50s.
Useless for chase he is is.
Stop lying at least
Where have I lied? Am not the one persisting with the claim that the conditions will largely stay the same throughout.
I said kallis and smith are going to slow the game down, or do you think smith is going to be hitting his natural shots with 2 down?
And where did I say they will be chasing 400 odd? Weird strawman.
Llyod can come early or later on, the point is that he is better than any of the middle order batsmen you have bar Lara.
No EAP has said that conditions support swing bowling throughout but the side bowling first still gets to bowl under more favorable conditons. That has been clear from the start, only you tried to dispute that
Mccullum and Smith have batted on flat pitches mostly and hence their quick scoring feats.
Why would we be 2 down.. I love how you have completely discounted Anwar and Viv
We will be chasing less than 250 in this kind of pitch, if even that much. I have more than enough experienced batsmen to take care of that even against your bowling attack.
The very desctiption of pitch conditions say that that the seam movement will die down as the game progresses.
A number of your bowlers can be taken for cleaners. Steyn, Gough and Tahir would all be targetted. Steyn is simply not the same bowler in limited over cricket as tests.
And why would Smith go slow? He is capable of batting as quickly as any standard opener. It is Fleming who could be a slow starter.
If we are going on 'if player x gets going'.. then I have biggest trump card of all.. if Viv gets going, then yeah... game over
Changing your turn a bit there crappy.
Since when did NZ have flat pitches? You have two batsman with horrible records in conditions such as this(Vivs and Anwar), its funny how you are still claiming your batting is superior.
Pieterson isnt inferior to lloyds.
Why would we be 2 down.. I love how you have completely discounted Anwar and Viv
We will be chasing less than 250 in this kind of pitch, if even that much. I have more than enough experienced batsmen to take care of that even against your bowling attack.
You are surprised why I discounted a person who has an average of 19 in 18 matches vs Imran Khan? Yeah, why would I expect he will get out quickly. Anwar has historically struggled overseas and he is up against waqar younis.
You wouldnt be saying that if we werent in a draft. Chasing less than 250 with an inferior bowling setup. Riiiighttt.There's more to the game than plucking stats.
McCullum's hit out or get out style vs Fleming (master of line and length), Akhtar (raw pace) and Kapil Dev who is a bit of both is bound to see him dismissed early. Fleming was class but not a regular centurion. Steve Smith in his transformation has barely played outside of Australia.
Your middle order is good but openers and number 3 are so crucial in setting the tone and I'm not convinced those three are good enough.
Pitches in ODIs all over the world now are batsmen friendly. Are you seriously suggesting that Martin Guptil has been breaking ODI records on bowler friendly pitches?
KP would struggle against the kind of bowlers Llyod faced on the pitches back in 70s and 80s.
Thank you. I have been honest and said that his bowling is better. Baffling how he is trying to claim that his batting is as strong as mine.
I agree that mccullum is a risk that can pay off but I expect fleming to last for a while. Smith has shown his class outside of Australia in test matches, if you want proof that he can play then there it is.
You also have anwar and vivs on his side, both batsman who have a horrible record in conditions such as this and against Imran khan. Take that into account as well.
Does that mean tahir and steyn are going to destroy your batting? As the pitches in ODIs all over the world now are batsmen friendly. Are you serisouly suggesting that steyn wont be breaking ODI records on bowler friendy pitches?
Akhtar would struggle against the kind of batsman steyn faced on the pitches in 2000s.
You also think my team wont be able to get 250 runs so excuse me for taking your comments with a pitch of salt.
Your 3 has an average of 19 against imran khan, your 2 struggled in overseas condition. Thats why I think your batting is weak. Thats based on stats and playing style not on "batsman being better back then"
I think you have forgotten what cricket was like before scoring 300 was a norm. The conditions EAP mentioned are more in tune with pre200s cricket.
You also seem to think you are facing the bowling attack of Bermuda.
I have Akhtar, Warne, Dev leading the attack. Both pacers will also be bowling in more favorable conditions. And then Warne is Warne.
That's before you factor in Kallis, Fleming and Cairns. None of those are part timer bowler. All 3 capable of putting the pressure on the batting side and take wickets. There are no easy gimme bowlers here. Heck, if one of my bowlers does not find rhythm, I have plenty of good back up, something your side does not. If Tahir or Gough go for runs, you will be relying on likes of Maxwell, KP .
Nah, you keep changing the rules to suit you. Glad you have atleast finally accepted that the pitch is going to help both sides, not just your.
Even pre-2000, 270 was considered par, not less than 200. You are making two different arguments here. My batsman arent as good as yours since they played in a batsman friendly era. Okay, but then you arent giving my bowlers the credit for playing in the same era? Thats hypocrisy of the highest order.
Bump up steyn and tahir stats like you have been with your batsman, and I have the best 3 bowlers on a pitch and a very good spinner. Kallis/Dev/Cairns arent wicket takcing bowlers. Akhtar is liable to go for runs.
On the other hand, I have Imran,Waqar,Steyn and Gough against a batting lineup whose 2 and 3 have been shown to historically struggle. Why are you assuming they will go for runs in a low scoring game? Again, you are changing the era to suit yourself. Either its pre-2000 where 250/270 was a good score or its post. if its the former, my bowlers wont be going for a lot of runs here.
No he doesn't.
See the link above, this contains matches in pak and india. Both of which have different conditions compared to this match.
Conditions in Australia or West Indies are nothing like England
Bowler friendly condition, with seam/swing support for the bwolers? That sounds like english and australian conditiosn to me.
Wasnt aware what windies was like so included them anyway.
My scrotum swings more laterally than a ball in Australia.
Doesn't sound like Australia at all. That sounds more like New Zealand, South Africa or England.
Pitch Conditions:
Green pitch. Little dust. Well-rounded and bouncy offering seam movement for the quick bowlers early on and tones down as day goes. Windy conditions aid swing bowling.
No? My memory of pitches isnt that good but to me that sounds like it could be australia.
Eitherway, vivs record goes from horrible to below average whichever way you look at it.
How many matches are those?
That is more of a NZ pitch description. Given it is bouncy along with green, it should be NZ.
18 matches. Australia,WI and England. Overall, his average is 33 in 36 games.
No matches in NZ.
There is no point in guessing the country, that goes against this exercise. The conditions reminds me most of England anyway and if we were to play that game then Anwar averages over 40 there.
It's all pointless though. Pakistan was just that one team Viv could not obliterate, that does not mean that in a one off knock out match, Imran will make him his bunny. Regardless of the opponent, you would still back Viv to make the most impact in this game.
MJJ has been trying to best to muddle the waters here with regards to my batting -
- Greame Smith is well capable of batting at a quick pace. Anwar admittedly could struggle but his record in England provides some hope on that front.
- Kallis is an awesome asset to have in such conditions. ODI cricket on proper pitches against good attack is not a T20 circus where slop merchants can get away with mishits. There are only a couple of batsmen you would have have over Kallis facing MJJ's attack. He will drop anchor and allow the rest of the batsmen to do damage
- Viv is still the best match winner on the pitch
- Llyod faced better attacks on less batting friendly pitches than likes of Smith, KP, Maxwell. Well capable of batting at a quick pace as well.
That's before you take into account Cairns and Kapil Dev.
It's all pointless though. Pakistan was just that one team Viv could not obliterate, that does not mean that in a one off knock out match, Imran will make him his bunny. Regardless of the opponent, you would still back Viv to make the most impact in this game.
MJJ has been trying to best to muddle the waters here with regards to my batting -
- Greame Smith is well capable of batting at a quick pace. Anwar admittedly could struggle but his record in England provides some hope on that front.
- Kallis is an awesome asset to have in such conditions. ODI cricket on proper pitches against good attack is not a T20 circus where slop merchants can get away with mishits. There are only a couple of batsmen you would have have over Kallis facing MJJ's attack. He will drop anchor and allow the rest of the batsmen to do damage
- Viv is still the best match winner on the pitch
- Llyod faced better attacks on less batting friendly pitches than likes of Smith, KP, Maxwell. Well capable of batting at a quick pace as well.
That's before you take into account Cairns and Kapil Dev.
you have 18 or 34 matches in which he hasnt done a lot. So no you would not back him to make the most impact in this game. I have two legendary pakistani pacers and his record is poor against imran. Or are we going to live in a make believe world where everything suits your player more?
No surprise the conditions are england in your opinion where anwar averages 40. Viv is the worst batsman on the pitch, taking the individuals on account and both cairns and dev average in the low 20s.
Summary of crappys post in this match.
- Posts that the conditions will only help his bowler. Even after the moderator stated otherwise, he kept insisting with this.
- The match in his opinion is being played in england, the only place,overseas, where anwar has a good record.
- Viv is the best match winner on the pitch and will do well despite his record telling us elsewise.
- Kallis isnt a slow batter.
- Lloyd is the second best bat on the pitch and played in conditions where the bowlers were favoured more.
- But the same batsman friendly conditions dont count in favour of my fast bowlers.
- Cairns is a better bat than maxwell not because of history or stats but because crappy says so.
I'll just pretend I didn't see this. I can honestly think of no situation where Viv would be the worst batsman on the pitch. None at all.
I guess mod had said that ground or country won't be mentioned but people are free to guess and discuss about it. Given the pitch have bounce, to me it reflect NZ more than England. Anyways...
He averages 19(or 34 if you disagree with wi,aus,eng) against imran. Or are we all pretending that never happened?