The 4-Way Draft

  1. Oeancha (1971-76) - 1. Z. Zidane 2. R. Giggs 3. D. Beckham 4. R. Keane 5. F. Cannavaro 6. D. Albertini 7. R. van Nistelrooy 8. A. Del Piero 9. C. Panucci
  2. Moby (BRA) - 1. L. Ronaldo 2. Ronaldinho 3. P. R. Falcâo 4. Didi 5. Nilton Santos 6. D. Alves 7. D. Da Guia 8. T. Silva 9. Zizinho
  3. Šjor (Ancel|Lattek) - 1. D. Maradona 2. Cafu 3. P. Maldini 4. E. Davids 5. A. Brehme 6. A. Shevchenko 7. C. Ferrara 8. G. Buffon 9. U. Stielike
  4. Pat (ARG) - 1. L. Messi 2. S. Marzolini 3. O. Ruggeri 4. R. Ayala 5. D. Simeone 6. G. Batistuta 7. L. Monti 8. U. Fillol 9. J.M. Moreno
  5. 2mufc0 (Trap|Capello) -1. L. Matthäus 2. M. Platini 3. M. Van Basten 4. P. Nedved 5. J. Kohler 6. G. Gattuso 7. G. Rivera 8. A. Pirlo
  6. Tuppet (BRA) - 1. Pele 2. Garrincha 3. Rivelino 4. Zico 5. Gerson 6. D. Santos 7. Zito 8. Neymar
  7. Paz/green_smiley (Fergie|Pep) - 1. C. Ronaldo 2. A. Iniesta 3. C. Puyol 4. T. Henry 5. Xavi 6. X. Alonso 7. E. Abidal 8. E. Cantona
  8. Enigma_87 (1940-45) - 1. F. Beckenbauer 2. C. Alberto 3. G. Facchetti 4. Jairzinho 5. W. van Hanegem 6. G. Netzer 7. S. Maier 8. P. Keizer
  9. Onenil (ENG) - 1. B. Moore 2. R. Ferdinand 3. B. Robson 4. J. Greaves 5. A. Cole 6. G. Neville 7. B. Charlton 8. K. Keegan
  10. Ecstatic (1945-50) - 1. J. Cruyff 2. B. Vogts 3. R. Krol 4. Pirri 5. W. Jansen 6. Clodoaldo 7. A. Haan 8. Tostão
  11. Skizzo (Barca) - 1. J. Neeskens 2. Romario 3. M. Laudrup 4. L. Thuram 5. L. Suarez Miramontes 6. R. Koeman 7. H. Stoichkov 8. L. Enrique
  12. idmanager (I.Milan) - 1. L. Figo 2. D. Passarella 3. R. Carlos 4. R. Baggio 5. G. Meazza 6. M. Tardelli 7. S. Eto'o 8. G. Bergomi
  13. Crappy (Lattek|Rinus) - 1. F. Rijkaard 2. G. Muller 3. P. Breitner 4. K-H Rummenigge 5. B. Schuster 6. H-G Schwarzenbeck 7. K. Augenthaler 8. S. Lerby
  14. Raees (AC Milan) - 1. F. Redondo 2. F. Baresi 3. R. Gullit 4. M. Desailly 5. J. Stam 6. Kaka 7. M. Essien 8. G. Zambrotta
  15. Physiocrat (1971-76) - 1. A. Nesta 2. P. Scholes 3. J. Zanetti 4. Rivaldo 5. P. Vieira 6. C. Vieri 7. S. Campbell 8. M. Overmars
  16. P-Nut0712 (R.Madrid) - 1. A. Di Stefano 2. C. Seedorf 3. Marcelo 4. C. Makelele 5. F. Hierro 6. I. Casillas 7. A. Robben 8. D. Carvajal
@2mufc0
 
Tuppet said:
I am counting on your vote @Ecstatic just for this picture.

DGVEGdyVYAAL2WP.jpg
Click to expand...

:D

 
  1. Oeancha (1971-76) - 1. Z. Zidane 2. R. Giggs 3. D. Beckham 4. R. Keane 5. F. Cannavaro 6. D. Albertini 7. R. van Nistelrooy 8. A. Del Piero 9. C. Panucci
  2. Moby (BRA) - 1. L. Ronaldo 2. Ronaldinho 3. P. R. Falcâo 4. Didi 5. Nilton Santos 6. D. Alves 7. D. Da Guia 8. T. Silva 9. Zizinho
  3. Šjor (Ancel|Lattek) - 1. D. Maradona 2. Cafu 3. P. Maldini 4. E. Davids 5. A. Brehme 6. A. Shevchenko 7. C. Ferrara 8. G. Buffon 9. U. Stielike
  4. Pat (ARG) - 1. L. Messi 2. S. Marzolini 3. O. Ruggeri 4. R. Ayala 5. D. Simeone 6. G. Batistuta 7. L. Monti 8. U. Fillol 9. J.M. Moreno
  5. 2mufc0 (Trap|Capello) -1. L. Matthäus 2. M. Platini 3. M. Van Basten 4. P. Nedved 5. J. Kohler 6. G. Gattuso 7. G. Rivera 8. A. Pirlo 9. S. Reuter
  6. Tuppet (BRA) - 1. Pele 2. Garrincha 3. Rivelino 4. Zico 5. Gerson 6. D. Santos 7. Zito 8. Neymar
  7. Paz/green_smiley (Fergie|Pep) - 1. C. Ronaldo 2. A. Iniesta 3. C. Puyol 4. T. Henry 5. Xavi 6. X. Alonso 7. E. Abidal 8. E. Cantona
  8. Enigma_87 (1940-45) - 1. F. Beckenbauer 2. C. Alberto 3. G. Facchetti 4. Jairzinho 5. W. van Hanegem 6. G. Netzer 7. S. Maier 8. P. Keizer
  9. Onenil (ENG) - 1. B. Moore 2. R. Ferdinand 3. B. Robson 4. J. Greaves 5. A. Cole 6. G. Neville 7. B. Charlton 8. K. Keegan
  10. Ecstatic (1945-50) - 1. J. Cruyff 2. B. Vogts 3. R. Krol 4. Pirri 5. W. Jansen 6. Clodoaldo 7. A. Haan 8. Tostão
  11. Skizzo (Barca) - 1. J. Neeskens 2. Romario 3. M. Laudrup 4. L. Thuram 5. L. Suarez Miramontes 6. R. Koeman 7. H. Stoichkov 8. L. Enrique
  12. idmanager (I.Milan) - 1. L. Figo 2. D. Passarella 3. R. Carlos 4. R. Baggio 5. G. Meazza 6. M. Tardelli 7. S. Eto'o 8. G. Bergomi
  13. Crappy (Lattek|Rinus) - 1. F. Rijkaard 2. G. Muller 3. P. Breitner 4. K-H Rummenigge 5. B. Schuster 6. H-G Schwarzenbeck 7. K. Augenthaler 8. S. Lerby
  14. Raees (AC Milan) - 1. F. Redondo 2. F. Baresi 3. R. Gullit 4. M. Desailly 5. J. Stam 6. Kaka 7. M. Essien 8. G. Zambrotta
  15. Physiocrat (1971-76) - 1. A. Nesta 2. P. Scholes 3. J. Zanetti 4. Rivaldo 5. P. Vieira 6. C. Vieri 7. S. Campbell 8. M. Overmars
  16. P-Nut0712 (R.Madrid) - 1. A. Di Stefano 2. C. Seedorf 3. Marcelo 4. C. Makelele 5. F. Hierro 6. I. Casillas 7. A. Robben 8. D. Carvajal

@Tuppet
 
78287410409680ae201211d0fcee379a.jpg

  1. Oeancha (1971-76) - 1. Z. Zidane 2. R. Giggs 3. D. Beckham 4. R. Keane 5. F. Cannavaro 6. D. Albertini 7. R. van Nistelrooy 8. A. Del Piero 9. C. Panucci
  2. Moby (BRA) - 1. L. Ronaldo 2. Ronaldinho 3. P. R. Falcâo 4. Didi 5. Nilton Santos 6. D. Alves 7. D. Da Guia 8. T. Silva 9. Zizinho
  3. Šjor (Ancel|Lattek) - 1. D. Maradona 2. Cafu 3. P. Maldini 4. E. Davids 5. A. Brehme 6. A. Shevchenko 7. C. Ferrara 8. G. Buffon 9. U. Stielike
  4. Pat (ARG) - 1. L. Messi 2. S. Marzolini 3. O. Ruggeri 4. R. Ayala 5. D. Simeone 6. G. Batistuta 7. L. Monti 8. U. Fillol 9. J.M. Moreno
  5. 2mufc0 (Trap|Capello) -1. L. Matthäus 2. M. Platini 3. M. Van Basten 4. P. Nedved 5. J. Kohler 6. G. Gattuso 7. G. Rivera 8. A. Pirlo 9. S. Reuter
  6. Tuppet (BRA) - 1. Pele 2. Garrincha 3. Rivelino 4. Zico 5. Gerson 6. D. Santos 7. Zito 8. Neymar 9. Lucio
  7. Paz/green_smiley (Fergie|Pep) - 1. C. Ronaldo 2. A. Iniesta 3. C. Puyol 4. T. Henry 5. Xavi 6. X. Alonso 7. E. Abidal 8. E. Cantona
  8. Enigma_87 (1940-45) - 1. F. Beckenbauer 2. C. Alberto 3. G. Facchetti 4. Jairzinho 5. W. van Hanegem 6. G. Netzer 7. S. Maier 8. P. Keizer
  9. Onenil (ENG) - 1. B. Moore 2. R. Ferdinand 3. B. Robson 4. J. Greaves 5. A. Cole 6. G. Neville 7. B. Charlton 8. K. Keegan
  10. Ecstatic (1945-50) - 1. J. Cruyff 2. B. Vogts 3. R. Krol 4. Pirri 5. W. Jansen 6. Clodoaldo 7. A. Haan 8. Tostão
  11. Skizzo (Barca) - 1. J. Neeskens 2. Romario 3. M. Laudrup 4. L. Thuram 5. L. Suarez Miramontes 6. R. Koeman 7. H. Stoichkov 8. L. Enrique
  12. idmanager (I.Milan) - 1. L. Figo 2. D. Passarella 3. R. Carlos 4. R. Baggio 5. G. Meazza 6. M. Tardelli 7. S. Eto'o 8. G. Bergomi
  13. Crappy (Lattek|Rinus) - 1. F. Rijkaard 2. G. Muller 3. P. Breitner 4. K-H Rummenigge 5. B. Schuster 6. H-G Schwarzenbeck 7. K. Augenthaler 8. S. Lerby
  14. Raees (AC Milan) - 1. F. Redondo 2. F. Baresi 3. R. Gullit 4. M. Desailly 5. J. Stam 6. Kaka 7. M. Essien 8. G. Zambrotta
  15. Physiocrat (1971-76) - 1. A. Nesta 2. P. Scholes 3. J. Zanetti 4. Rivaldo 5. P. Vieira 6. C. Vieri 7. S. Campbell 8. M. Overmars
  16. P-Nut0712 (R.Madrid) - 1. A. Di Stefano 2. C. Seedorf 3. Marcelo 4. C. Makelele 5. F. Hierro 6. I. Casillas 7. A. Robben 8. D. Carvajal
@Paz @green_smiley
 
  1. Oeancha (1971-76) - 1. Z. Zidane 2. R. Giggs 3. D. Beckham 4. R. Keane 5. F. Cannavaro 6. D. Albertini 7. R. van Nistelrooy 8. A. Del Piero 9. C. Panucci
  2. Moby (BRA) - 1. L. Ronaldo 2. Ronaldinho 3. P. R. Falcâo 4. Didi 5. Nilton Santos 6. D. Alves 7. D. Da Guia 8. T. Silva 9. Zizinho
  3. Šjor (Ancel|Lattek) - 1. D. Maradona 2. Cafu 3. P. Maldini 4. E. Davids 5. A. Brehme 6. A. Shevchenko 7. C. Ferrara 8. G. Buffon 9. U. Stielike
  4. Pat (ARG) - 1. L. Messi 2. S. Marzolini 3. O. Ruggeri 4. R. Ayala 5. D. Simeone 6. G. Batistuta 7. L. Monti 8. U. Fillol 9. J.M. Moreno
  5. 2mufc0 (Trap|Capello) -1. L. Matthäus 2. M. Platini 3. M. Van Basten 4. P. Nedved 5. J. Kohler 6. G. Gattuso 7. G. Rivera 8. A. Pirlo 9. S. Reuter
  6. Tuppet (BRA) - 1. Pele 2. Garrincha 3. Rivelino 4. Zico 5. Gerson 6. D. Santos 7. Zito 8. Neymar 9. Lucio
  7. Paz/green_smiley (Fergie|Pep) - 1. C. Ronaldo 2. A. Iniesta 3. C. Puyol 4. T. Henry 5. Xavi 6. X. Alonso 7. E. Abidal 8. E. Cantona 9. N. Vidic
  8. Enigma_87 (1940-45) - 1. F. Beckenbauer 2. C. Alberto 3. G. Facchetti 4. Jairzinho 5. W. van Hanegem 6. G. Netzer 7. S. Maier 8. P. Keizer
  9. Onenil (ENG) - 1. B. Moore 2. R. Ferdinand 3. B. Robson 4. J. Greaves 5. A. Cole 6. G. Neville 7. B. Charlton 8. K. Keegan
  10. Ecstatic (1945-50) - 1. J. Cruyff 2. B. Vogts 3. R. Krol 4. Pirri 5. W. Jansen 6. Clodoaldo 7. A. Haan 8. Tostão
  11. Skizzo (Barca) - 1. J. Neeskens 2. Romario 3. M. Laudrup 4. L. Thuram 5. L. Suarez Miramontes 6. R. Koeman 7. H. Stoichkov 8. L. Enrique
  12. idmanager (I.Milan) - 1. L. Figo 2. D. Passarella 3. R. Carlos 4. R. Baggio 5. G. Meazza 6. M. Tardelli 7. S. Eto'o 8. G. Bergomi
  13. Crappy (Lattek|Rinus) - 1. F. Rijkaard 2. G. Muller 3. P. Breitner 4. K-H Rummenigge 5. B. Schuster 6. H-G Schwarzenbeck 7. K. Augenthaler 8. S. Lerby
  14. Raees (AC Milan) - 1. F. Redondo 2. F. Baresi 3. R. Gullit 4. M. Desailly 5. J. Stam 6. Kaka 7. M. Essien 8. G. Zambrotta
  15. Physiocrat (1971-76) - 1. A. Nesta 2. P. Scholes 3. J. Zanetti 4. Rivaldo 5. P. Vieira 6. C. Vieri 7. S. Campbell 8. M. Overmars
  16. P-Nut0712 (R.Madrid) - 1. A. Di Stefano 2. C. Seedorf 3. Marcelo 4. C. Makelele 5. F. Hierro 6. I. Casillas 7. A. Robben 8. D. Carvajal
@Enigma_87
 
  1. Oeancha (1971-76) - 1. Z. Zidane 2. R. Giggs 3. D. Beckham 4. R. Keane 5. F. Cannavaro 6. D. Albertini 7. R. van Nistelrooy 8. A. Del Piero 9. C. Panucci
  2. Moby (BRA) - 1. L. Ronaldo 2. Ronaldinho 3. P. R. Falcâo 4. Didi 5. Nilton Santos 6. D. Alves 7. D. Da Guia 8. T. Silva 9. Zizinho
  3. Šjor (Ancel|Lattek) - 1. D. Maradona 2. Cafu 3. P. Maldini 4. E. Davids 5. A. Brehme 6. A. Shevchenko 7. C. Ferrara 8. G. Buffon 9. U. Stielike
  4. Pat (ARG) - 1. L. Messi 2. S. Marzolini 3. O. Ruggeri 4. R. Ayala 5. D. Simeone 6. G. Batistuta 7. L. Monti 8. U. Fillol 9. J.M. Moreno
  5. 2mufc0 (Trap|Capello) -1. L. Matthäus 2. M. Platini 3. M. Van Basten 4. P. Nedved 5. J. Kohler 6. G. Gattuso 7. G. Rivera 8. A. Pirlo 9. S. Reuter
  6. Tuppet (BRA) - 1. Pele 2. Garrincha 3. Rivelino 4. Zico 5. Gerson 6. D. Santos 7. Zito 8. Neymar 9. Lucio
  7. Paz/green_smiley (Fergie|Pep) - 1. C. Ronaldo 2. A. Iniesta 3. C. Puyol 4. T. Henry 5. Xavi 6. X. Alonso 7. E. Abidal 8. E. Cantona 9. N. Vidic
  8. Enigma_87 (1940-45) - 1. F. Beckenbauer 2. C. Alberto 3. G. Facchetti 4. Jairzinho 5. W. van Hanegem 6. G. Netzer 7. S. Maier 8. P. Keizer 9. N. Stiles
  9. Onenil (ENG) - 1. B. Moore 2. R. Ferdinand 3. B. Robson 4. J. Greaves 5. A. Cole 6. G. Neville 7. B. Charlton 8. K. Keegan 9. Alex James
  10. Ecstatic (1945-50) - 1. J. Cruyff 2. B. Vogts 3. R. Krol 4. Pirri 5. W. Jansen 6. Clodoaldo 7. A. Haan 8. Tostão 9. L. Mazurkiewicz
  11. Skizzo (Barca) - 1. J. Neeskens 2. Romario 3. M. Laudrup 4. L. Thuram 5. L. Suarez Miramontes 6. R. Koeman 7. H. Stoichkov 8. L. Enrique
  12. idmanager (I.Milan) - 1. L. Figo 2. D. Passarella 3. R. Carlos 4. R. Baggio 5. G. Meazza 6. M. Tardelli 7. S. Eto'o 8. G. Bergomi
  13. Crappy (Lattek|Rinus) - 1. F. Rijkaard 2. G. Muller 3. P. Breitner 4. K-H Rummenigge 5. B. Schuster 6. H-G Schwarzenbeck 7. K. Augenthaler 8. S. Lerby
  14. Raees (AC Milan) - 1. F. Redondo 2. F. Baresi 3. R. Gullit 4. M. Desailly 5. J. Stam 6. Kaka 7. M. Essien 8. G. Zambrotta
  15. Physiocrat (1971-76) - 1. A. Nesta 2. P. Scholes 3. J. Zanetti 4. Rivaldo 5. P. Vieira 6. C. Vieri 7. S. Campbell 8. M. Overmars
  16. P-Nut0712 (R.Madrid) - 1. A. Di Stefano 2. C. Seedorf 3. Marcelo 4. C. Makelele 5. F. Hierro 6. I. Casillas 7. A. Robben 8. D. Carvajal
@Skizzo
 
jose-mari-bakero-2.jpg

  1. Oeancha (1971-76) - 1. Z. Zidane 2. R. Giggs 3. D. Beckham 4. R. Keane 5. F. Cannavaro 6. D. Albertini 7. R. van Nistelrooy 8. A. Del Piero 9. C. Panucci
  2. Moby (BRA) - 1. L. Ronaldo 2. Ronaldinho 3. P. R. Falcâo 4. Didi 5. Nilton Santos 6. D. Alves 7. D. Da Guia 8. T. Silva 9. Zizinho
  3. Šjor (Ancel|Lattek) - 1. D. Maradona 2. Cafu 3. P. Maldini 4. E. Davids 5. A. Brehme 6. A. Shevchenko 7. C. Ferrara 8. G. Buffon 9. U. Stielike
  4. Pat (ARG) - 1. L. Messi 2. S. Marzolini 3. O. Ruggeri 4. R. Ayala 5. D. Simeone 6. G. Batistuta 7. L. Monti 8. U. Fillol 9. J.M. Moreno
  5. 2mufc0 (Trap|Capello) -1. L. Matthäus 2. M. Platini 3. M. Van Basten 4. P. Nedved 5. J. Kohler 6. G. Gattuso 7. G. Rivera 8. A. Pirlo 9. S. Reuter
  6. Tuppet (BRA) - 1. Pele 2. Garrincha 3. Rivelino 4. Zico 5. Gerson 6. D. Santos 7. Zito 8. Neymar 9. Lucio
  7. Paz/green_smiley (Fergie|Pep) - 1. C. Ronaldo 2. A. Iniesta 3. C. Puyol 4. T. Henry 5. Xavi 6. X. Alonso 7. E. Abidal 8. E. Cantona 9. N. Vidic
  8. Enigma_87 (1940-45) - 1. F. Beckenbauer 2. C. Alberto 3. G. Facchetti 4. Jairzinho 5. W. van Hanegem 6. G. Netzer 7. S. Maier 8. P. Keizer 9. N. Stiles
  9. Onenil (ENG) - 1. B. Moore 2. R. Ferdinand 3. B. Robson 4. J. Greaves 5. A. Cole 6. G. Neville 7. B. Charlton 8. K. Keegan 9. Alex James
  10. Ecstatic (1945-50) - 1. J. Cruyff 2. B. Vogts 3. R. Krol 4. Pirri 5. W. Jansen 6. Clodoaldo 7. A. Haan 8. Tostão 9. L. Mazurkiewicz
  11. Skizzo (Barca) - 1. J. Neeskens 2. Romario 3. M. Laudrup 4. L. Thuram 5. L. Suarez Miramontes 6. R. Koeman 7. H. Stoichkov 8. L. Enrique 9. J. Bakero
  12. idmanager (I.Milan) - 1. L. Figo 2. D. Passarella 3. R. Carlos 4. R. Baggio 5. G. Meazza 6. M. Tardelli 7. S. Eto'o 8. G. Bergomi
  13. Crappy (Lattek|Rinus) - 1. F. Rijkaard 2. G. Muller 3. P. Breitner 4. K-H Rummenigge 5. B. Schuster 6. H-G Schwarzenbeck 7. K. Augenthaler 8. S. Lerby
  14. Raees (AC Milan) - 1. F. Redondo 2. F. Baresi 3. R. Gullit 4. M. Desailly 5. J. Stam 6. Kaka 7. M. Essien 8. G. Zambrotta
  15. Physiocrat (1971-76) - 1. A. Nesta 2. P. Scholes 3. J. Zanetti 4. Rivaldo 5. P. Vieira 6. C. Vieri 7. S. Campbell 8. M. Overmars
  16. P-Nut0712 (R.Madrid) - 1. A. Di Stefano 2. C. Seedorf 3. Marcelo 4. C. Makelele 5. F. Hierro 6. I. Casillas 7. A. Robben 8. D. Carvajal

@idmanager
 
idmanager said:
One of the reasons why Kaiser is not mentioned more often when in comparison to someone like Maradona is simply because defending doesn't have the aspect of individuality at a very high level as much as attacking and flair does.

What would you rather have? Kaiser along with a sh*t defence or Maradona with a sh*t attack? I know which one I would choose.

I think he is rated appropriately. Not over or under. A level (not necessarily different tier) below Maradona.
Click to expand...

Tbf, I completely understand the rationale behind the forwards and the more offensive players being rated or valued higher than their defensive counter-parts. However, I'd also say that Beckenbauer was no mere defender and as an all-compassing influence, his impact was no different or lower than the likes of di Stefano's with the 5-on-the-trot European Cup winning Real, Cruyff's with Ajax and Holland, Pele's with Brazil & Santos and Maradona's with Argentina and Napoli. Beckenbauer was his side's playmaker, leader, talismanic match-winning presence etc, just as these greats were. Granted, he wasn't as likely to 'directly impact' the score-line as the legends above did with their goals or assists. However, the very reason why the likes of Cruyff, Maradona, di Stefano, Platini, Charlton, Puskas, Messi etc are rated as highly as they are is simply due to the totality of their games and their all-encompassing influence in addition to their tangible impact on the score-line. The former quality, Beckenbauer had in abundance and I'd say his defensive game and ability to lead from the back and organise things, were very much on par to this 'tangible impact' that the other forwards had. Which in itself is remarkable, as none of the likes of Baresi, Scirea, Moore, Figueroa or most defensive players can even come close to laying a claim to be in that much vaunted company.

Once again, it's fair enough if you rate the tangible and the direct impact that the forwards had on the score-line higher, but Beckenbauer's defensive influence was more consistent and more reliable imo. This discussion made me recall a convo that I once had with Balu.


Joga Bonito said:
I was just randomly pondering upon this topic regarding which GOAT would be the hardest to stop/lessen their influence tactically. We've definitely seen the likes of Pele, Maradona, Platini, Cruyff etc being shackled to an extent - well not completely at times, but enough to considerably lessen their influence on the match. I mean theoretically you could man-mark them or place them against an imposing midfield, deny them possession (harder for Cruyff and his total footballing sides) and tactically shut them down/decrease their influence all to a certain extent.

So yeah Beckenbauer... Can't exactly think of a foolproof tactical method to decrease or nullify his influence. Can't exactly devote a defender or a midfielder on him as it disrupts the entire shape of the side and he's way too intelligent to be nullified by intense pressing - as the 1974 final and even his European Cup match against Ajax, to a certain extent, showed. Ajax completely dominated Bayern but every time Bayern struggled with the pressing of the Ajax forwards, Beckenbauer just went to the spot, almost as if to say what's the bother here, and just kept things moving along with some really great one-twos and passing etc. He was at fault for a goal or two if I remember correctly and it wasn't a great defensive performance though.

Well you could place an industrious forward on him (Law, Kempes etc) but forwards tend to be generally less tactically astute and they can't exactly follow man-marking duties without seriously compromising on the shape of the team, and more importantly taking away their movement and positioning off the ball, when their side's not in possession. Also one could very well argue it leaves the midfield too open if Beckenbauer is intelligent with his movement dragging his man-marker around, and/or plays a one-two wall pass. The forward could very well be better utilised cutting off passing lanes and then using the packed midfield to pressure Beckenbauer if he ventures forward, or the player that Beckenbauer is passing too. Man-marking Beckenbauer simply makes the opposition's midfield too vulnerable and open imo. Denying him possession is harder said than done, as the play is bound to start with him first and foremost and even in a match where his side has 30-40% of the ball, the lion share of it will be with him as he is in charge of the build-up play.

Did they ever use any man-marking or any other unique tactics etc against Beckenbauer in the Bundesliga or other German matches? In most of the matches that I've seen most teams just seem to give up the battle again Beckenbauer and just focus on pressuring him if he ventures forward too much into midfield, or pressing the midfielder he is passing to etc. Well it's the same with Scirea and other liberos etc but of course, we are talking about something else entirely when it concerns Der Kaiser and his impact with Germany and Bayern in terms of playmaking (esp for Bayern without too many playmaking influences), no disrespect to Scirea.
Click to expand...



Pat_Mustard said:
I stumbled across one of his rare bad performances at random while researching one my favourite hidden gem finds Acimovic for an old draft:



Couldn't believe my luck to find a match where he tears up a Bayern team containing Beckenbauer, Schwarzenbeck, Roth, Runnenigge and Muller :lol:. Even then Beckenbauer's still Bayern's highest rated player according to Kicker even if his mark might have been a bit generous, and his playmaking directly led to Bayern's goal.

http://www.kicker.de/news/fussball/...1-fc-saarbruecken-106_bayern-muenchen-14.html
Click to expand...


A rarity indeed :lol:
 
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  1. Oeancha (1971-76) - 1. Z. Zidane 2. R. Giggs 3. D. Beckham 4. R. Keane 5. F. Cannavaro 6. D. Albertini 7. R. van Nistelrooy 8. A. Del Piero 9. C. Panucci
  2. Moby (BRA) - 1. L. Ronaldo 2. Ronaldinho 3. P. R. Falcâo 4. Didi 5. Nilton Santos 6. D. Alves 7. D. Da Guia 8. T. Silva 9. Zizinho
  3. Šjor (Ancel|Lattek) - 1. D. Maradona 2. Cafu 3. P. Maldini 4. E. Davids 5. A. Brehme 6. A. Shevchenko 7. C. Ferrara 8. G. Buffon 9. U. Stielike
  4. Pat (ARG) - 1. L. Messi 2. S. Marzolini 3. O. Ruggeri 4. R. Ayala 5. D. Simeone 6. G. Batistuta 7. L. Monti 8. U. Fillol 9. J.M. Moreno
  5. 2mufc0 (Trap|Capello) -1. L. Matthäus 2. M. Platini 3. M. Van Basten 4. P. Nedved 5. J. Kohler 6. G. Gattuso 7. G. Rivera 8. A. Pirlo 9. S. Reuter
  6. Tuppet (BRA) - 1. Pele 2. Garrincha 3. Rivelino 4. Zico 5. Gerson 6. D. Santos 7. Zito 8. Neymar 9. Lucio
  7. Paz/green_smiley (Fergie|Pep) - 1. C. Ronaldo 2. A. Iniesta 3. C. Puyol 4. T. Henry 5. Xavi 6. X. Alonso 7. E. Abidal 8. E. Cantona 9. N. Vidic
  8. Enigma_87 (1940-45) - 1. F. Beckenbauer 2. C. Alberto 3. G. Facchetti 4. Jairzinho 5. W. van Hanegem 6. G. Netzer 7. S. Maier 8. P. Keizer 9. N. Stiles
  9. Onenil (ENG) - 1. B. Moore 2. R. Ferdinand 3. B. Robson 4. J. Greaves 5. A. Cole 6. G. Neville 7. B. Charlton 8. K. Keegan 9. G. Banks
  10. Ecstatic (1945-50) - 1. J. Cruyff 2. B. Vogts 3. R. Krol 4. Pirri 5. W. Jansen 6. Clodoaldo 7. A. Haan 8. Tostão 9. L. Mazurkiewicz
  11. Skizzo (Barca) - 1. J. Neeskens 2. Romario 3. M. Laudrup 4. L. Thuram 5. L. Suarez Miramontes 6. R. Koeman 7. H. Stoichkov 8. L. Enrique 9. J. Bakero
  12. idmanager (I.Milan) - 1. L. Figo 2. D. Passarella 3. R. Carlos 4. R. Baggio 5. G. Meazza 6. M. Tardelli 7. S. Eto'o 8. G. Bergomi
  13. Crappy (Lattek|Rinus) - 1. F. Rijkaard 2. G. Muller 3. P. Breitner 4. K-H Rummenigge 5. B. Schuster 6. H-G Schwarzenbeck 7. K. Augenthaler 8. S. Lerby
  14. Raees (AC Milan) - 1. F. Redondo 2. F. Baresi 3. R. Gullit 4. M. Desailly 5. J. Stam 6. Kaka 7. M. Essien 8. G. Zambrotta
  15. Physiocrat (1971-76) - 1. A. Nesta 2. P. Scholes 3. J. Zanetti 4. Rivaldo 5. P. Vieira 6. C. Vieri 7. S. Campbell 8. M. Overmars
  16. P-Nut0712 (R.Madrid) - 1. A. Di Stefano 2. C. Seedorf 3. Marcelo 4. C. Makelele 5. F. Hierro 6. I. Casillas 7. A. Robben 8. D. Carvajal

@idmanager
 
  1. Oeancha (1971-76) - 1. Z. Zidane 2. R. Giggs 3. D. Beckham 4. R. Keane 5. F. Cannavaro 6. D. Albertini 7. R. van Nistelrooy 8. A. Del Piero 9. C. Panucci
  2. Moby (BRA) - 1. L. Ronaldo 2. Ronaldinho 3. P. R. Falcâo 4. Didi 5. Nilton Santos 6. D. Alves 7. D. Da Guia 8. T. Silva 9. Zizinho
  3. Šjor (Ancel|Lattek) - 1. D. Maradona 2. Cafu 3. P. Maldini 4. E. Davids 5. A. Brehme 6. A. Shevchenko 7. C. Ferrara 8. G. Buffon 9. U. Stielike
  4. Pat (ARG) - 1. L. Messi 2. S. Marzolini 3. O. Ruggeri 4. R. Ayala 5. D. Simeone 6. G. Batistuta 7. L. Monti 8. U. Fillol 9. J.M. Moreno
  5. 2mufc0 (Trap|Capello) -1. L. Matthäus 2. M. Platini 3. M. Van Basten 4. P. Nedved 5. J. Kohler 6. G. Gattuso 7. G. Rivera 8. A. Pirlo 9. S. Reuter
  6. Tuppet (BRA) - 1. Pele 2. Garrincha 3. Rivelino 4. Zico 5. Gerson 6. D. Santos 7. Zito 8. Neymar 9. Lucio
  7. Paz/green_smiley (Fergie|Pep) - 1. C. Ronaldo 2. A. Iniesta 3. C. Puyol 4. T. Henry 5. Xavi 6. X. Alonso 7. E. Abidal 8. E. Cantona 9. N. Vidic
  8. Enigma_87 (1940-45) - 1. F. Beckenbauer 2. C. Alberto 3. G. Facchetti 4. Jairzinho 5. W. van Hanegem 6. G. Netzer 7. S. Maier 8. P. Keizer 9. N. Stiles
  9. Onenil (ENG) - 1. B. Moore 2. R. Ferdinand 3. B. Robson 4. J. Greaves 5. A. Cole 6. G. Neville 7. B. Charlton 8. K. Keegan 9. G. Banks
  10. Ecstatic (1945-50) - 1. J. Cruyff 2. B. Vogts 3. R. Krol 4. Pirri 5. W. Jansen 6. Clodoaldo 7. A. Haan 8. Tostão 9. L. Mazurkiewicz
  11. Skizzo (Barca) - 1. J. Neeskens 2. Romario 3. M. Laudrup 4. L. Thuram 5. L. Suarez Miramontes 6. R. Koeman 7. H. Stoichkov 8. L. Enrique 9. J. Bakero
  12. idmanager (I.Milan) - 1. L. Figo 2. D. Passarella 3. R. Carlos 4. R. Baggio 5. G. Meazza 6. M. Tardelli 7. S. Eto'o 8. G. Bergomi 9. Maicon
  13. Crappy (Lattek|Rinus) - 1. F. Rijkaard 2. G. Muller 3. P. Breitner 4. K-H Rummenigge 5. B. Schuster 6. H-G Schwarzenbeck 7. K. Augenthaler 8. S. Lerby
  14. Raees (AC Milan) - 1. F. Redondo 2. F. Baresi 3. R. Gullit 4. M. Desailly 5. J. Stam 6. Kaka 7. M. Essien 8. G. Zambrotta
  15. Physiocrat (1971-76) - 1. A. Nesta 2. P. Scholes 3. J. Zanetti 4. Rivaldo 5. P. Vieira 6. C. Vieri 7. S. Campbell 8. M. Overmars
  16. P-Nut0712 (R.Madrid) - 1. A. Di Stefano 2. C. Seedorf 3. Marcelo 4. C. Makelele 5. F. Hierro 6. I. Casillas 7. A. Robben 8. D. Carvajal

@crappycraperson
 
@2mufc0 Was blessing you for letting me have Tardelli and Bergomi and then you go and get Pirlo. Guess not 3 times lucky.

Literally all my picks till now have been out of fear of someone else picking them and leaving no other quality options for me in the position rather than a preferred order I would have liked. Pretty sure mine is the weakest 1st pick :lol:
 
Joga Bonito said:
Tbf, I completely understand the rationale behind the forwards and the more offensive players being rated or valued higher than their defensive counter-parts. However, I'd also say that Beckenbauer was no mere defender and as an all-compassing influence, his impact was no different or lower than the likes of di Stefano's with the 5-on-the-trot European Cup winning Real, Cruyff's with Ajax and Holland, Pele's with Brazil & Santos and Maradona's with Argentina and Napoli. Beckenbauer was his side's playmaker, leader, talismanic match-winning presence etc, just as these greats were. Granted, he wasn't as likely to 'directly impact' the score-line as the legends above did with their goals or assists. However, the very reason why the likes of Cruyff, Maradona, di Stefano, Platini, Charlton, Puskas, Messi etc are rated as highly as they are is simply due to the totality of their games and their all-encompassing influence in addition to their tangible impact on the score-line. The former quality, Beckenbauer had in abundance and I'd say his defensive game and ability to lead from the back and organise things, were very much on par to this 'tangible impact' that the other forwards had. Which in itself is remarkable, as none of the likes of Baresi, Scirea, Moore, Figueroa or most defensive players can even come close to laying a claim to be in that much vaunted company.

Once again, it's fair enough if you rate the tangible and the direct impact that the forwards had on the score-line as higher, but Beckenbauer's defensive influence was more consistent and more reliable imo. This discussion made me recall a convo that I once had with Balu.
Click to expand...

Agree with almost all of your points. Guess it is thin margins and how much each person rates particular qualities.
 
idmanager said:
@2mufc0 Was blessing you for letting me have Tardelli and Bergomi and then you go and get Pirlo. Guess not 3 times lucky.

Literally all my picks till now have been out of fear of someone else picking them and leaving no other quality options for me in the position rather than a preferred order I would have liked. Pretty sure mine is the weakest 1st pick :lol:
Click to expand...
Wise move, I would have taken him that round. :lol:
 
idmanager said:
@2mufc0 Was blessing you for letting me have Tardelli and Bergomi and then you go and get Pirlo. Guess not 3 times lucky.

Literally all my picks till now have been out of fear of someone else picking them and leaving no other quality options for me in the position rather than a preferred order I would have liked. Pretty sure mine is the weakest 1st pick :lol:
Click to expand...

If you hadn't picked Figo. I would. I was somewhat annoyed he'd gone
 
idmanager said:
Literally all my picks till now have been out of fear of someone else picking them and leaving no other quality options for me in the position rather than a preferred order I would have liked. Pretty sure mine is the weakest 1st pick
Click to expand...

Figo is pure class and still easily a potential match winner so I wouldn't worry too much. You were right to pick Passarella early as well as if I hadn't missed those picks I'd have went for him and Zanetti next for an eventual back four of:

Zanetti Ruggeri Passarella Marzolini

Which would have been one of the better defences in the competition IMO. As it is I'm happy enough having missed out on them as it frees me up to do something unorthodox instead, which will probably get zero votes but hopefully some interesting discussion.
 
  1. Oeancha (1971-76) - 1. Z. Zidane 2. R. Giggs 3. D. Beckham 4. R. Keane 5. F. Cannavaro 6. D. Albertini 7. R. van Nistelrooy 8. A. Del Piero 9. C. Panucci
  2. Moby (BRA) - 1. L. Ronaldo 2. Ronaldinho 3. P. R. Falcâo 4. Didi 5. Nilton Santos 6. D. Alves 7. D. Da Guia 8. T. Silva 9. Zizinho
  3. Šjor (Ancel|Lattek) - 1. D. Maradona 2. Cafu 3. P. Maldini 4. E. Davids 5. A. Brehme 6. A. Shevchenko 7. C. Ferrara 8. G. Buffon 9. U. Stielike
  4. Pat (ARG) - 1. L. Messi 2. S. Marzolini 3. O. Ruggeri 4. R. Ayala 5. D. Simeone 6. G. Batistuta 7. L. Monti 8. U. Fillol 9. J.M. Moreno
  5. 2mufc0 (Trap|Capello) -1. L. Matthäus 2. M. Platini 3. M. Van Basten 4. P. Nedved 5. J. Kohler 6. G. Gattuso 7. G. Rivera 8. A. Pirlo 9. S. Reuter
  6. Tuppet (BRA) - 1. Pele 2. Garrincha 3. Rivelino 4. Zico 5. Gerson 6. D. Santos 7. Zito 8. Neymar 9. Lucio
  7. Paz/green_smiley (Fergie|Pep) - 1. C. Ronaldo 2. A. Iniesta 3. C. Puyol 4. T. Henry 5. Xavi 6. X. Alonso 7. E. Abidal 8. E. Cantona 9. N. Vidic
  8. Enigma_87 (1940-45) - 1. F. Beckenbauer 2. C. Alberto 3. G. Facchetti 4. Jairzinho 5. W. van Hanegem 6. G. Netzer 7. S. Maier 8. P. Keizer 9. N. Stiles
  9. Onenil (ENG) - 1. B. Moore 2. R. Ferdinand 3. B. Robson 4. J. Greaves 5. A. Cole 6. G. Neville 7. B. Charlton 8. K. Keegan 9. G. Banks
  10. Ecstatic (1945-50) - 1. J. Cruyff 2. B. Vogts 3. R. Krol 4. Pirri 5. W. Jansen 6. Clodoaldo 7. A. Haan 8. Tostão 9. L. Mazurkiewicz
  11. Skizzo (Barca) - 1. J. Neeskens 2. Romario 3. M. Laudrup 4. L. Thuram 5. L. Suarez Miramontes 6. R. Koeman 7. H. Stoichkov 8. L. Enrique 9. J. Bakero
  12. idmanager (I.Milan) - 1. L. Figo 2. D. Passarella 3. R. Carlos 4. R. Baggio 5. G. Meazza 6. M. Tardelli 7. S. Eto'o 8. G. Bergomi 9. Maicon
  13. Crappy (Lattek|Rinus) - 1. F. Rijkaard 2. G. Muller 3. P. Breitner 4. K-H Rummenigge 5. B. Schuster 6. H-G Schwarzenbeck 7. K. Augenthaler 8. S. Lerby 9. R. Rensenbrink
  14. Raees (AC Milan) - 1. F. Redondo 2. F. Baresi 3. R. Gullit 4. M. Desailly 5. J. Stam 6. Kaka 7. M. Essien 8. G. Zambrotta 9. D. Savicevic
  15. Physiocrat (1971-76) - 1. A. Nesta 2. P. Scholes 3. J. Zanetti 4. Rivaldo 5. P. Vieira 6. C. Vieri 7. S. Campbell 8. M. Overmars 9. V. Candela
  16. P-Nut0712 (R.Madrid) - 1. A. Di Stefano 2. C. Seedorf 3. Marcelo 4. C. Makelele 5. F. Hierro 6. I. Casillas 7. A. Robben 8. D. Carvajal
@P-Nut0712
 
Time to add some star names to the team.

Puskas and Gento reporting for duty.

567b08c555b154f140f1dc6dcb2d478e.jpg


  1. Oeancha (1971-76) - 1. Z. Zidane 2. R. Giggs 3. D. Beckham 4. R. Keane 5. F. Cannavaro 6. D. Albertini 7. R. van Nistelrooy 8. A. Del Piero 9. C. Panucci
  2. Moby (BRA) - 1. L. Ronaldo 2. Ronaldinho 3. P. R. Falcâo 4. Didi 5. Nilton Santos 6. D. Alves 7. D. Da Guia 8. T. Silva 9. Zizinho
  3. Šjor (Ancel|Lattek) - 1. D. Maradona 2. Cafu 3. P. Maldini 4. E. Davids 5. A. Brehme 6. A. Shevchenko 7. C. Ferrara 8. G. Buffon 9. U. Stielike
  4. Pat (ARG) - 1. L. Messi 2. S. Marzolini 3. O. Ruggeri 4. R. Ayala 5. D. Simeone 6. G. Batistuta 7. L. Monti 8. U. Fillol 9. J.M. Moreno
  5. 2mufc0 (Trap|Capello) -1. L. Matthäus 2. M. Platini 3. M. Van Basten 4. P. Nedved 5. J. Kohler 6. G. Gattuso 7. G. Rivera 8. A. Pirlo 9. S. Reuter
  6. Tuppet (BRA) - 1. Pele 2. Garrincha 3. Rivelino 4. Zico 5. Gerson 6. D. Santos 7. Zito 8. Neymar 9. Lucio
  7. Paz/green_smiley (Fergie|Pep) - 1. C. Ronaldo 2. A. Iniesta 3. C. Puyol 4. T. Henry 5. Xavi 6. X. Alonso 7. E. Abidal 8. E. Cantona 9. N. Vidic
  8. Enigma_87 (1940-45) - 1. F. Beckenbauer 2. C. Alberto 3. G. Facchetti 4. Jairzinho 5. W. van Hanegem 6. G. Netzer 7. S. Maier 8. P. Keizer 9. N. Stiles
  9. Onenil (ENG) - 1. B. Moore 2. R. Ferdinand 3. B. Robson 4. J. Greaves 5. A. Cole 6. G. Neville 7. B. Charlton 8. K. Keegan 9. G. Banks
  10. Ecstatic (1945-50) - 1. J. Cruyff 2. B. Vogts 3. R. Krol 4. Pirri 5. W. Jansen 6. Clodoaldo 7. A. Haan 8. Tostão 9. L. Mazurkiewicz
  11. Skizzo (Barca) - 1. J. Neeskens 2. Romario 3. M. Laudrup 4. L. Thuram 5. L. Suarez Miramontes 6. R. Koeman 7. H. Stoichkov 8. L. Enrique 9. J. Bakero
  12. idmanager (I.Milan) - 1. L. Figo 2. D. Passarella 3. R. Carlos 4. R. Baggio 5. G. Meazza 6. M. Tardelli 7. S. Eto'o 8. G. Bergomi 9. Maicon
  13. Crappy (Lattek|Rinus) - 1. F. Rijkaard 2. G. Muller 3. P. Breitner 4. K-H Rummenigge 5. B. Schuster 6. H-G Schwarzenbeck 7. K. Augenthaler 8. S. Lerby 9. R. Rensenbrink
  14. Raees (AC Milan) - 1. F. Redondo 2. F. Baresi 3. R. Gullit 4. M. Desailly 5. J. Stam 6. Kaka 7. M. Essien 8. G. Zambrotta 9. D. Savicevic
  15. Physiocrat (1971-76) - 1. A. Nesta 2. P. Scholes 3. J. Zanetti 4. Rivaldo 5. P. Vieira 6. C. Vieri 7. S. Campbell 8. M. Overmars 9. V. Candela
  16. P-Nut0712 (R.Madrid) - 1. A. Di Stefano 2. C. Seedorf 3. Marcelo 4. C. Makelele 5. F. Hierro 6. I. Casillas 7. A. Robben 8. D. Carvajal 9. F. Puskas 10. Gento
 
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