The “Ole In” Brigade

devilish said:
I am not arguing with any of that. However it's also unfair to say that this is Mou's squad. It is not.

Regarding our transfer strategy I think that this year United had finally stirred away from what the manager wants to what the club needs. I very much doubt that Ole wanted VDB or Cavani in the first place and I wonder if he knew that Diallo or Pellistri even existed. The club had been hinting of wanting to move towards that direction for quite years, it might have been the reason why Mou caused a havoc in his last year and I geniunely believe that this transition happened last summer.

For the record while I think that the system needs more tweaking I do believe that its a step to the right direction.
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Fair points, and I agree with most of it.

But again, I think Mou is the one to blame for his shite squad. Ed gave him the players he wanted, and stopped when he realized the massive failures of that strategy (hence the meltdown in the summer before his inevitable implosion). The fact that Ole has turned players estranged (and brought in) by Mourinho into integral parts of the squad speaks volumes. It isn't Mou's squad, Ole has tweaked it massively, but he has done good/great things with the players he chose to keep from Mou's reign. The rest he got rid of. As he should.
 
devilish said:
I believe that up to this summer all managers had a definite say on all signings. That unless they asked something so silly that even Woodward would notice like for example spending 60m+ over 28 year old Perisic. I think that the system still need tweaking. I can't help thinking that the new system gave a teeny weeny too much power to scouts (hence why we spent so much money on Diallo and Pellistri), which are excellent talent potential wise but won't help the manager in the near future. Thus a balance need to be reached, something that a top DOF might help in. An experienced DOF would act as an intermediary between the manager and the scouts + he would make sure that the club doesn't get robbed.

I can make a list of Ole's weaknesses and strengths, which would probably be controversial and quite frankly irrelevant at this point. However if you ask me what Ole's major strength is then I'd say its his man management. Its evident that the squad is ready to do anything for him. That's something Moyes, LVG and Mou lacked big time. For the record, good man management is a vastly underrated skill. It Sir Alex's major strength as well and had basically carried Allegri throughout his managerial career. I dare to say that its the one skill top modern managers can't live without.
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Good post, especially the last part. Man management is pointed out as Zizou' and Ancelotti's biggest strengths as well.
 
Skåre Willoch said:
Fair points, and I agree with most of it.

But again, I think Mou is the one to blame for his shite squad. Ed gave him the players he wanted, and stopped when he realized the massive failures of that strategy (hence the meltdown in the summer before his inevitable implosion). The fact that Ole has turned players estranged (and brought in) by Mourinho into integral parts of the squad speaks volumes. It isn't Mou's squad, Ole has tweaked it massively, but he has done good/great things with the players he chose to keep from Mou's reign. The rest he got rid of. As he should.
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I agree.

However I put the blame squarely on Woodward. We're not in the 70s anymore. DOFs are a thing and managers rely on them whether they are ready to admit it or not. The club had been scammed by 3 managers (Moyes, LVG and Mou) and all happened under Woodward's watch.
 
Whether you like Ole or not, one thing that cannot be questioned is his man management. The way he has handled players has been nothing short of brilliant.

Pogba is the biggest one.
The way he has handled drop in form of Greenwood, Martial and even questions over Bruno.
 
devilish said:
I mentioned Stam to show that the argument that no top quality foreign CB can settle down unless nannied by EPL proven top players is somehow flawed. Stam entered a defence that was decent but who lacked WC players in it. Guess what? He settled nicely and immediately.

To answer your question, there wasn't any WC CB available which is not surprising considering that WC CBs are rarely available. Now since there was no WC CB available then we shouldn't have spent 80m on a meah CB just because we could. That's not how a properly run club works. It's like blowing 300k on a Skoda simply because the Bentley store is closed.

United should have done what they had always done for most of the time ie spot defenders on a budget who would improve us. No one believed back then that the likes of Johnsen and Vidic would turn out to be that good. WC CBs are rarely bought but they are usually made.
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If we didn't signed anyone that summer, Ole had to play Smalling, Lindelof, Baily, Rojo, Jones, and Young? :lol:
ffs only 2 of them were fit to play entire season and who the hell will be the "usually made" defenders?

Ferdinand was bought with a transfer record fee after fail experiment with Blanc. Woodward is the one who bought Skoda for 300K, you can't blame Ole for that.
 
devilish said:
I agree.

However I put the blame squarely on Woodward. We're not in the 70s anymore. DOFs are a thing and managers rely on them whether they are ready to admit it or not. The club had been scammed by 3 managers (Moyes, LVG and Mou) and all happened under Woodward's watch.
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For the wider part of the game/clubs I think DOF's are fine, great even. But I can see downsides to DOF's at the upper tier of clubs, where players have to perform at their maximum for the club to compete. For example, if a star player falls out with the manager, he could easily think that "it's ok, the DOF really likes me and I won't be sold. If the manager keeps benching me he'll prob be sacked and the next guy will be told by the DOF to play me" instead of actively working hard to get into the good graces of the manager again to have the most amount of players performing well to finish up top.
I'm not saying this is destined to happen always, but I can see why certain managers, especially those who considers themselves good at man management, are reluctant to have a DOF interfere with his own day to day operations and long term plans.
 
If anyone wants Ole out after putting us on top of the league at the halfway point, you're just the worst.
 
Berbasbullet said:
Our pressing is absolutely brilliant at the moment, we were class at pressing last night, it’s one of the best ways to score against organised teams.

Maybe Ole knows what he’s doing? You can tell we are a very fit outfit now too.
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not in the first 20 mins or so, we were laboured. As soon as we got going and pressed, they made mistakes. We need to do it from the start.
 
Number32 said:
If we didn't signed anyone that summer, Ole had to play Smalling, Lindelof, Baily, Rojo, Jones, and Young? :lol:
ffs only 2 of them were fit to play entire season and who the hell will be the "usually made" defenders?

Ferdinand was bought with a transfer record fee after fail experiment with Blanc. Woodward is the one who bought Skoda for 300K, you can't blame Ole for that.
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So you're saying that a top club with Ole, Phelan and 50 scouts couldn't find an alternative to a CB with zero leadership, zero pace and meah defensive skills? We're talking of a rumoured 80m in cash spent. That's alot of money.

And I assure you that Ole was kept updated and could have asked the club to bail out at every step on the way. You don't need to be a genius to acknowledge that Maguire would have costed us an arm and a leg either.
 
devilish said:
So you're saying that a top club with Ole, Phelan and 50 scouts couldn't find an alternative to a CB with zero leadership, zero pace and meah defensive skills? We're talking of a rumoured 80m in cash spent. That's alot of money.

And I assure you that Ole was kept updated and could have asked the club to bail out at every step on the way. You don't need to be a genius to acknowledge that Maguire would have costed us an arm and a leg either.
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Correct. Koulibaly was the other option and was quoted over £100m.

Maguire cost what he cost, but if you look at the reasons why he was top of the list, it makes sense.

Phelan has worked with him in the past.
Ole wanted to reset the culture of the club when he came in, going for a player your assistant has worked with and gives high praise to is a very good start.

He had a very good world cup
He is proven in the PL
He can dominate in the air
He can play out the back
He is experienced enough (27) so he doesn't need time to bed in.
He is probably first name on Englands team sheet
His injury record is very good
He wont use Manutd as a stepping stone to Madrid or Barca


Also, majority of the caf wanted De Ligt, the club looked at him too but he wanted too much £££ and rejected us..

2 years on if you ask me who I would rather have? it would be Maguire over De Ligt.
 
Tom Cato said:
If anyone wants Ole out after putting us on top of the league at the halfway point, you're just the worst.
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If we had a proper manager with a decent CV, we'd be 10 points clear, in the LC final and still in the UCL.

Or something
 
Matriac said:
For the wider part of the game/clubs I think DOF's are fine, great even. But I can see downsides to DOF's at the upper tier of clubs, where players have to perform at their maximum for the club to compete. For example, if a star player falls out with the manager, he could easily think that "it's ok, the DOF really likes me and I won't be sold. If the manager keeps benching me he'll prob be sacked and the next guy will be told by the DOF to play me" instead of actively working hard to get into the good graces of the manager again to have the most amount of players performing well to finish up top.
I'm not saying this is destined to happen always, but I can see why certain managers, especially those who considers themselves good at man management, are reluctant to have a DOF interfere with his own day to day operations and long term plans.
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The DOF system had spread like wildlfire across most top clubs in Europe. Liverpool, Juventus, Bayern, Dortmund, Barcelona, Chelsea.....the list is endless. So I guess there's many benefits surrounding the role considering almost everyone adopted it. What you mention can happen though. For example Paratici got himself in a similar scuffle with Sarri on Emre Can. Bottom line of the story Sarri wanted to get rid of Emre Can, Paratici believed that Sarri would start appreciating Can's versatility, he didn't, it went public and Can was gone in the January sales. However its rare.
 
devilish said:
I believe that up to this summer all managers had a definite say on all signings. That unless they asked something so silly that even Woodward would notice like for example spending 60m+ over 28 year old Perisic. I think that the system still need tweaking. I can't help thinking that the new system gave a teeny weeny too much power to scouts (hence why we spent so much money on Diallo and Pellistri), which are excellent talent potential wise but won't help the manager in the near future. Thus a balance need to be reached, something that a top DOF might help in. An experienced DOF would act as an intermediary between the manager and the scouts + he would make sure that the club doesn't get robbed.

I can make a list of Ole's weaknesses and strengths, which would probably be controversial and quite frankly irrelevant at this point. However if you ask me what Ole's major strength is then I'd say its his man management. Its evident that the squad is ready to do anything for him. That's something Moyes, LVG and Mou lacked big time. For the record, good man management is a vastly underrated skill. It Sir Alex's major strength as well and had basically carried Allegri throughout his managerial career. I dare to say that its the one skill top modern managers can't live without.
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I agree with you on Ole, some times in football if you can master simplicity and delegation it can be incredibly helpful.

I think he has a bit of say on everything and has input but he kind of acts like a sporting director who gives team talks.

He’s one of the rare people in life who is just quietly assured, confident not cocky and very laid back, this balance must help him when dealing with varying personalities.
 
Foxbatt said:
`you are a bunch of twats. You want us to support him and now when I think he is doing a good job now you want me to say what? Did you say the same thing when Moyes was appointed and got us to the 7th? Did you all support him and say he was a brilliant manager? Or when LVG was playing dross at the end of his time? Or when Jose was getting us almost relegated? When any manager does well I will say so. When he is cack I will say so. If he is at the bottom of the league I will not say he is doing a good job. When he is on top of the league it is bloody obvious that he is doing a good job.
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What was it you wrote about us 1 year ago ?

"I honestly do not think that most fans here on CAF who support to keep Ole are real United fans. Any idiot can see that he is out of his depth. "

Last time we were idiots and not real fans - now we are twats.
 
Apparently, we've accumulated 80 points over the last 38 games, which is plenty enough to win the league most seasons.

That's an impressive haul by anyone's standards and considerably better than his predecessors post-SAF managed. Mourinho. for example, barely reached 60 points when we finished a distant second behind City.

Ole is very much the man right now.
 
Sometimes it's great to be wrong. I think Ole, and the coaching staff in general were out of their depth 12 months ago, and it wasn't looking good.

I think they have come to terms with the squad, both from a talent point of view, and as people. There's a core group of players they now trust, and the players are playing for each other and the manager.

I don't think tactically Ole has evolved, or his philosophy has changed or anything like that. He's managed to connect with a talented group of players, and get them pulling in the same direction. Time to forget about 'Ole in' or 'Ole out' and all that, let's just enjoy the rest of the season and see where we stand!
 
Random Task said:
Apparently, we've accumulated 80 points over the last 38 games, which is plenty enough to win the league most seasons.

That's an impressive haul by anyone's standards and considerably better than his predecessors post-SAF managed. Mourinho, for example, barely reached 60 points when we finished a distant second behind City.

Ole is very much the man right now.
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We finished on 81 points in Mourinho's second season. He still wasn't the right man ultimately, but we had a pretty good season that year.
 
romufc said:
Whether you like Ole or not, one thing that cannot be questioned is his man management. The way he has handled players has been nothing short of brilliant.
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Agree with this, as someone who has been mildly "Ole out" twice (December 2019 and October 2020). The culture he's cultivating is phenomenal, and I hope he continues to cultivate that
 
devilish said:
Ole spent 145m in defence (Telles, Maguire and AWB). He brought Bruno, VDB and James in midfield and Cavani upfront. Mourinho can be criticised on many many things. He lost the dressing room, he engaged himself in a petty argument with god knows who which saw Fred barely getting any first team games and ultimately most of his signings were cack. However there's no denying that Ole is leading a far better side then Mou's
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Out of all the new signings, Maguire and Fernandes are the only clear first-XI improvements from their 17/18 equivalents - Wan Bissaka isn't much better at this point than 2017 Valencia, Telles is a rotation option, James is worse than 2017 Mata/Lingard, Cavani and Van de Beek have started about two games each.

Mourinho had a better striker, a better version of Matic, and the best goalkeeper in the world at the time. Solskjaer has Maguire and Fernandes (who is clearly 10X better than Mkhitaryan/Lingard), improved and more experienced versions of the same players in Martial+Rashford, and two Mourinho signings that looked utterly shite for Mourinho playing key roles for him in Fred and Lindelof (Mourinho didn't have Fred that season, but he did have a fairly similar and arguably better player in Herrera). There's not a lot between the squads, and there was nothing particularly surprising about Mourinho's squad finishing second, as evidenced by the pre-season odds that year. That was my point.
 
It is and always has been Glazers out. Ole is doing an OK job at the moment but the headwinds he faces from a badly run club make a Title a really big ask
 
eire-red said:
We finished on 81 points in Mourinho's second season. He still wasn't the right man ultimately, but we had a pretty good season that year.
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We've taken 78 points from our last 38 games (stretches back to just before Bruno arrived), so we've had a similar level of performance to Mourinho's second season, during this period.

The lowest Premier League winning points tally in the last 10 years was 81, in the 2010/11 season. Generally, 86-89 points is the zone to aim for (although obviously the winner has needed 98+ points for the last three seasons in a row).

Essentially, since Bruno has been here, we've been performing at a level that you might historically class as 'solid top 3 Premier League side' - one that might expect to be in the title race in most previous Premier League seasons, without quite winning it. It's decent enough and will surely be enough for the Glazers to stick with him.
 
Infra-red said:
We've taken 78 points from our last 38 games (stretches back to just before Bruno arrived), so we've had a similar level of performance to Mourinho's second season, during this period.

The lowest Premier League winning points tally in the last 10 years was 81, in the 2010/11 season. Generally, 86-89 points is the zone to aim for (although obviously the winner has needed 98+ points for the last three seasons in a row).

Essentially, since Bruno has been here, we've been performing at a level that you might historically class as 'solid top 3 Premier League side' - one that might expect to be in the title race in most previous Premier League seasons, without quite winning it. It's decent enough and will surely be enough for the Glazers to stick with him.
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We're still a level below winning it I think. As you said, around the 80 mark is just below where you're in with a chance. For us to rack up near 50 points in the remaining 19 fixtures will be very tough. Looking back, we should have accumulated another 5/6 points against Arsenal, Chelsea and Leicester, which would bring us more in line to where we'd be in with a real shout of the title.
 
Infra-red said:
We've taken 78 points from our last 38 games (stretches back to just before Bruno arrived), so we've had a similar level of performance to Mourinho's second season, during this period.

The lowest Premier League winning points tally in the last 10 years was 81, in the 2010/11 season. Generally, 86-89 points is the zone to aim for (although obviously the winner has needed 98+ points for the last three seasons in a row).

Essentially, since Bruno has been here, we've been performing at a level that you might historically class as 'solid top 3 Premier League side' - one that might expect to be in the title race in most previous Premier League seasons, without quite winning it. It's decent enough and will surely be enough for the Glazers to stick with him.
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The winner has needed 98+ points just once - 2018/19. City could have won the league with 82 in Mou's 2nd season, same for Pool last year. People forget that you need to get just 1 point more than 2nd placed side to win the league.

As far as this season is concerned, this is a normal PL season, unlike the last 4 where the leader was invincible and beating teams left right and centre.
 
We've been decent in the last 12 months and with a bit of improvement (a new right winger and a competent holding midfielder, perhaps), we'd be there or thereabouts most years in this league. The problem is that in the last three seasons, Liverpool and City have set an unbelievable standard, which I can't see us getting anywhere near under Ole. Those years may well prove to be an aberration, though.

anant said:
The winner has needed 98+ points just once - 2018/19. City could have won the league with 82 in Mou's 2nd season, same for Pool last year. People forget that you need to get just 1 point more than 2nd placed side to win the league.

As far as this season is concerned, this is a normal PL season, unlike the last 4 where the leader was invincible and beating teams left right and centre.
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That's of course correct. What I should have said is that the winner has amassed 98+ points in the last three seasons in a row. 86 points would probably be enough this season.
 
Random Task said:
Apparently, we've accumulated 80 points over the last 38 games, which is plenty enough to win the league most seasons.

That's an impressive haul by anyone's standards and considerably better than his predecessors post-SAF managed. Mourinho. for example, barely reached 60 points when we finished a distant second behind City.

Ole is very much the man right now.
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What?

We got 81 points in Mourinho's second season.
 
I am and always will be a huge Ole fan, that will never change.

Its good to see United at the top right now, mainly because that will relieve some of the pressure that was mounting on him a few weeks back.

However, even the biggest Ole fans out there cannot hide the fact that his game management needs huge improvements, he takes way too long to make adjustments / changes during a game.

Are there signs that he is improving as a manager ? .. I would say yes there is, so hopefully we see further improvements as the season progresses.

One thing is for sure, the players have not downed tools for him, if anything they have upped their game for a manager that was struggling somewhat ( granted there are 1 or 2 that have gone backwards ) .... but overall its good to see players backing a manager that was not exactly crushing it.
 
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How can in game management be criticised when we come from behind so often? Surely something being changed is right.

Not every sub has to be made at 60 minutes or when a particular fan thinks so, against Fulham we had them against the wall between 60-80 minutes, they had the odd break away, why mess with that chance of getting a goal, we were on top at that time and a goal for martial or Greenwood would have done their confidence wonders. I agree with what Ole is doing.
 
lysglimt said:
What was it you wrote about us 1 year ago ?

"I honestly do not think that most fans here on CAF who support to keep Ole are real United fans. Any idiot can see that he is out of his depth. "

Last time we were idiots and not real fans - now we are twats.
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Check mate...
 
Foxbatt said:
`you are a bunch of twats. You want us to support him and now when I think he is doing a good job now you want me to say what? Did you say the same thing when Moyes was appointed and got us to the 7th? Did you all support him and say he was a brilliant manager? Or when LVG was playing dross at the end of his time? Or when Jose was getting us almost relegated? When any manager does well I will say so. When he is cack I will say so. If he is at the bottom of the league I will not say he is doing a good job. When he is on top of the league it is bloody obvious that he is doing a good job.
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:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: I love these fans. We’ve been on a steady curve of progression for the past two years with a consistency coming into our gameplay and results. signings adding to the first 11 and team morale at a good high.

This was tried to be put across a number of times by a number of fans to those crying Ole out but ignored and just refuted with made up headlines.

Oh well, Maybe learn that in future not all fans who disagree with you is not because they do not support the club but they can actually see development.
 
lysglimt said:
What was it you wrote about us 1 year ago ?

"I honestly do not think that most fans here on CAF who support to keep Ole are real United fans. Any idiot can see that he is out of his depth. "

Last time we were idiots and not real fans - now we are twats.
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I mean there's no comeback from that is there?

Incredible find @lysglimt
 
SteveCoppellFan said:
However, even the biggest Ole fans out there cannot hide the fact that his game management needs huge improvements, he takes way too long to make adjustments / changes during a game.
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No offense because this isn't only directed at you, but I don't get how fans can be so certain about his game management. Do you guys have your coaching badges? If he consistently takes so long to make subs then he obviously has his reasons. And in recent times I can only think of one occasion where a player was on a yellow and got sent off before he could be subbed.
 
mu4c_20le said:
No offense because this isn't only directed at you, but I don't get how fans can be so certain about his game management. Do you guys have your coaching badges? If he consistently takes so long to make subs then he obviously has his reasons. And in recent times I can only think of one occasion where a player was on a yellow and got sent off before he could be subbed.
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There have been a number of times he’s taken players off at half time.

we also have the highest number of goals after 90 minutes in the league - so it’s a strange criticism.

perhaps he’s just not as reactionary as some of the fans that criticise him!
 
mu4c_20le said:
No offense because this isn't only directed at you, but I don't get how fans can be so certain about his game management. Do you guys have your coaching badges? If he consistently takes so long to make subs then he obviously has his reasons. And in recent times I can only think of one occasion where a player was on a yellow and got sent off before he could be subbed.
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Do you have coaching badges? Because if that's the requirement before we're allowed to criticise or debate the manager we may as well close the forum now.
 
mu4c_20le said:
No offense because this isn't only directed at you, but I don't get how fans can be so certain about his game management. Do you guys have your coaching badges? If he consistently takes so long to make subs then he obviously has his reasons. And in recent times I can only think of one occasion where a player was on a yellow and got sent off before he could be subbed.
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Exactly
 
Love how no one is criticising Ole for not subbing off Pogba at half time after he picked up a yellow card..

Pogba was on a tight rope after getting one after 7 minutes. He was playing CM where Fred played against PSG.
 
I think many of the criticisms thrown at Ole are actually proving to be his strengths right now.

I don’t believe Ole “has no tactics” and “doesn’t coach the players” - in actual fact I think that’s a load of nonsense. However, what is clear is that he doesn’t issue meticulous and strict instructions like Pep, LvG or Jose, for example.

For many of our players, I think this has been a breath of fresh air and they have been able to express themselves. This squad is still similar in quality (and personnel) to squads coached by Jose and LvG but generally we look much more threatening, much happier and much more confident.
 
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