The “Ole In” Brigade

[Massive Spanner]

Forget comparing to Ole.

No.

I responded to you because you said Poch has done nothing to suggest he's a better or more proven manager than Ole. I don't care about the ins and outs of how good Poch actually is or if he's overrated or whatever, all I'm saying is that he is clearly a much better and more proven manager than Ole. I think it's sheer madness to even attempt to try and argue otherwise.

One had a team consistently in the top four for nearly five seasons with zero budget and got to a CL final. The other relegated Cardiff, had them sitting in 17th in the Championship before he was sacked, and has the worst win percentage of any Man Utd manager in the PL era in 8th place. How anyone with half a brain cell could say the former isn't better than the latter with a straight face is beyond me.

 

[Stacks]

I'm 'Ole in' as far as I am fed up of our club becoming a managerial merry-go-round with no discernable upturn in results. We've had tumescent, largely unsuccessful (League Cup and Europa League barely count) football for the last 6.5 years. I want a bit of continuity, rather than scrapping everything AGAIN and pretending the only problem is the manager.

Why have continuity with the worst one of the lot? That's like Liverpool sticking with Dalglish instead of going for Klopp because of a roundabout

 

[JPRouve]

Our squad was thin on quality. We lost 6 players, some due to their style not fitting. If, as you suggest, his budget was only 150m should he have just persisted with the players that we all knew were not the long term answer for us? At some point we had to lance the boil which was the sheer amount of dross in our squad. If you know for sure whose decision that was, then you know more than the rest of us. But the fact is, when we sold Lukaku and loaned Sanchez and Smalling after the window closed, it should have been obvious how this season would go. Particularly if we happened to get key injuries.

Regarding your question it's a matter of priority, you don't randomly purchase players just because you think that you have drosses in the squad, you need to look at the balance of your team and try to improve areas that are clearly the weakest links, logically the first criteria will be numbers, when you have 6 CBs for 2 positons CB isn't a priority particularly when the player that you intend to purchase isn't actually a massive upgrade on the player that will potentially leave, in our case Smalling. When the club decided to spend 80m on a CB instead of prioritizing on our biggest weakness which was and still is our center midfield which also happens to be one of the reasons why our CBs are easily exposed.

It's a matter of choice and I personally disagree with the one made by the club, I think that their decision is one of the reasons why we are where we are today and it was obvious as you said, the fact that it was obvious should see you question our actions.

 

[Andycoleno9]

We've moved on from "Ole's a clueless fool" to "Ole is a leech who's not resigning because he wants to enrich himself, because he knows he'll never get a good job ever again?"

Stay classy, Caf.

My bad, I failed to quote the whole post:

There. Relevant part bolded.

Still, you defended the post when it was quoted in its entirety. It's not unreasonable to assume that you've actually read it when you're willing to defend it.

And what is wrong in saying that word? For me, he is a person who is not good enough to have this job, he got it only because of things which have nothing to do with that job and now he doesn't want to do honourable thing and resign despite trashing our reputation and our future every week after week.

So how to call someone who is doing harm to my club and millions and millions fans around the world just because of his ambition? And i don't buy that shit how he is delusional so he thinks that he is doing good job. His quotes and actions lately shows how he is just buying time to stay here long as he can.

 

[Halftrack]

And what is wrong in saying that word? For me, he is a person who is not good enough to have this job, he got it only because of things which have nothing to do with that job and now he doesn't want to do honourable thing and resign despite trashing our reputation and our future every week after week.

So how to call someone who is doing harm to my club and millions and millions fans around the world just because of his ambition? And i don't buy that shit how he is delusional so he thinks that he is doing good job. His quotes and actions lately shows how he is just buying time to stay here long as he can.

Ok.

 

[MackRobinson]

I wouldn't consider myself Ole in or out but I find it mildly amusing that some of Ole's biggest detractors defended the previous manager to the bitter end just because he had a better CV for similar results. The season thus far has been mediocre even though I like the youth in the squad, but those who defended the previous manager don't really have a leg to stand on.

 

[Bebestation]

I'm still 'Ole in'. Not because I think he's done a super job with the results so far, but because I see him trying to put together a potentially good young team which are still raw around the edges.

The situation reminds me of LVG. We sacked him too early. He also had trouble with the boring attack but we didn't give him time to sort it out.

I agree.

Should have kept Van Gaal when he won the FA Cup. A huge mistake in hiring Mourinho.

And that's the thing - the people who never saw what Van Gaal was trying to do will never see what Ole can atleast try shape up in the last 6 months he has left.

When Van Gaal was here he said he wanted 3 years to build a team - people got too distracted by Woodward Season 1 Galactico's of Falcao & Co that they couldn't see in to the Rashford, Martial, Lingard, TFM, debuts to Tuenzebe, CBJ thing he managed to do in half a season never mind the injuries leading to things like Smalling & Blind at CB which is still to day the best defensive partnership.

Van Gaal said that after he would build his team at United that he would want a United bred manager to take over & you can see that Ole is literally taking over the left over **** at United and trying to build a squad now.

LVG to Giggs or Ole was the original 5 year plan & unfortunately for us - 3 quarters of the fans cried and begged for their boy Jose to come after thinking that we were better than we were.

And now we are back to that. Crying because we are a big club & have forgotten how big we are or some nonsense.

Just damn build something for once & ole is useful for the next 6 months as LVG would have been for an extra damn year.

 

[matherto]

Why have continuity with the worst one of the lot? That's like Liverpool sticking with Dalglish instead of going for Klopp because of a roundabout

Because he's our current manager and we need to change tack at some point?

Not like we can keep Moyes, LVG or Jose is it?

 

[Flying high]

Yes they do. Go into any of the threads discussing the manager and you'll see his supporters making claims he's doing a job no one else had the balls to do, despite the fact that LvG was doing what OGS is doing now.

This idea that our squad was atrocious is overblown as well. Were we winning the league with that crop of players, probably not, with a few smart acquisitions could we? Most definitely. We had finished the previous season runners up to the highest points ever. We all anticipated Jose's meltdown but it was well known and like the guy or not we should have been signing more players to improve on that 2nd place finish. Once the Jose circus started last season was always going to be bad because of how Jose burns all his bridges and cuts off his nose to spite his face, but that doesn't change the fact that the same set of players were capable of a 2nd place finish. We saw that with the upturn in results during the honeymoon period where Ole acknowledged he didn't make any tactical changes, he just helped improve morale.

The issue now comes from the fact that since Solksjaer has implemented his tactics and moulded the squad to his liking we are worse off and now it's being claimed this rebuild will take years. Yes Sanchez was stealing a living and needed to go, but any manager worth his salt wouldn't offload all his experienced strikers in one summer during a rebuild. If the rebuild is as large as Ole In crew suggest you do it gradually, you don't throw the baby out with the bath water. If as it now appears Lukaku's attitude was bad, we should have prioritised a striker rather than blowing 80m on Harry Maguire, who is not a 70m upgrade on Smalling, no matter how many times he attempts a Scholesesque pass out of defence.

The expectations are constantly being dropped by the manager and the subset of supporters who seem to be blindly following him. That's never been accepted and shouldn't now especially from a man who claims to understand the club and its culture.

Perhaps this is where you are misunderstanding. I think people are saying that they trust him to do the job for the long term future of the squad, whether he is here to see it through or not. Whether he is good enough to remain long term is for Ole to prove as the squad improves. He doesn't get an unlimited free pass. If he still fails to get a tune out of the team with Pogba back, then he will probably leave sooner rather than later. He should get the respect to be allowed to get on with his job without abuse, however.

Ole hasn't moulded the squad. He has started the process. He should have been backed more. Blame the Glazers for that 100%. Our club should not have to sell before it buys, but there we are.

Expectations are not being dropped. Not at all. If we get to the end of Jan without at least 1 good signing, then I will be demanding that Ole calls out our owners for lack of investment. Otherwise he will lose my support. I can live with writing off this season in August as we did this year, but we have to be rebuilding seriously. If we don't sign anyone at all in January, then we are basically saying that next season we will allow pool and city a run for the title without any interference from us. That is not acceptable and if that is Ole's choice then it would be a mistake too far. If it's on the Glazers again as with Jose, then they need to be called out and pressured.

 

[Paxi]

Yep, some do. Personally, I do feel that Pochettino is a little bit over-rated on here and in general and isn't a perfect replacement but he's still much, much better than Ole Gunnar Solskjaer. Roy Hodgson is better than Ole Gunnar Solskjaer - both in the past, and at present. He is simply a better manager. Old-fashioned and out of date, sure. Ole is a bit more modern in that respect, but Roy is still better.

I just find it nuts that our fans think that Pochettino would come here and would not have a better win ratio than 30%. 8% if we're taking away penalties scored. Just a damning statistic.

 

[Gopher Brown]

Why have continuity with the worst one of the lot? That's like Liverpool sticking with Dalglish instead of going for Klopp because of a roundabout

We had Van Gaal. Perhaps he was passed it, but he had experience with managing 'big clubs.' He wasn't good enough.

We had Mourinho. Serial winner. He wasn't good enough.

What happens when we employ Pochettino and he isn't up to it?

The problems go far, far deeper than the manager at this point. The players seem to have a complete mental block when they play for us.

The players are like Flight of the Conchords - brilliant in their own minds, but can only do a weak rendition of 'We like to rock the party' when they need to perform.

 

[LJJT]

This is why so many people claim the Ole In people are letting their hearts rule their heads.

If he was doing what's best for the club we wouldn't be where we are now he wouldn't have put the burden of this season on the shoulders of a group of green youngsters who (Greenwood and William's aside) are no where near good enough to be in the first team. That's not good management, it's irresponsible and is now bordering on some kind of vanity project.

but he has to get rid of the parasites that are killing the club? If your a manager in any job you only want/need people that are swimming in the same direction as you. Not people that are causing issues

 

[LJJT]

No... he’s doing what HE thinks is best for our club, right now it appears that is shocking for our club.

Really? What’s Ole done wrong in terms of decisions for the club? I can get your point if your arguing results or playing style but all big decisions he’s made the right call for the club longer term

 

[b82REZ]

Perhaps this is where you are misunderstanding. I think people are saying that they trust him to do the job for the long term future of the squad, whether he is here to see it through or not. Whether he is good enough to remain long term is for Ole to prove as the squad improves. He doesn't get an unlimited free pass. If he still fails to get a tune out of the team with Pogba back, then he will probably leave sooner rather than later. He should get the respect to be allowed to get on with his job without abuse, however.

Ole hasn't moulded the squad. He has started the process. He should have been backed more. Blame the Glazers for that 100%. Our club should not have to sell before it buys, but there we are.

Expectations are not being dropped. Not at all. If we get to the end of Jan without at least 1 good signing, then I will be demanding that Ole calls out our owners for lack of investment. Otherwise he will lose my support. I can live with writing off this season in August as we did this year, but we have to be rebuilding seriously. If we don't sign anyone at all in January, then we are basically saying that next season we will allow pool and city a run for the title without any interference from us. That is not acceptable and if that is Ole's choice then it would be a mistake too far. If it's on the Glazers again as with Jose, then they need to be called out and pressured.

You're making the mistake that we all don't recognise the issues the Glazers are causing. This is an issue with many people who are Ole In, they don't seem to grasp we do recognise those issues but Ole and Glazers are their own separate issues. Infact by supporting Solksjaer you may be helping the Glazers as they have what they want, a meek yes man who has the unwavering support of a lot of fans.

If you are expecting heavy investment next month you may as well start calling for his head now. Best case we sign 2 players, I think the most likely outcome is Haaland and then calls for patience again when he doesn't hit the ground running.

You cant claim Solksjaer has done a great job offloading unwanted players, praise his signings and then claim he hasn't moulded the squad to his liking. That's having your cake and eating it too.

 

[el3mel]

We had Van Gaal. Perhaps he was passed it, but he had experience with managing 'big clubs.' He wasn't good enough.

We had Mourinho. Serial winner. He wasn't good enough.

What happens when we employ Pochettino and he isn't up to it?

The problems go far, far deeper than the manager at this point. The players seem to have a complete mental block when they play for us.

The players are like Flight of the Conchords - brilliant in their own minds, but can only do a weak rendition of 'We like to rock the party' when they need to perform.

Just because players are part of the problem, it doesn't mean the current manager isn't a big problem himself. Fix everything else in the club, and Ole won't become suddenly a top manager.

 

[b82REZ]

but he has to get rid of the parasites that are killing the club? If your a manager in any job you only want/need people that are swimming in the same direction as you. Not people that are causing issues

Not at all. A managers job is to make the team all work towards the same end goal. That goes for any field, you cant just get rid of everyone who doesn't agree with you and need to work with what you have. Fergie was the master of this often getting an extra season or two out of want away players.

 

[b82REZ]

Really? What’s Ole done wrong in terms of decisions for the club? I can get your point if your arguing results or playing style but all big decisions he’s made the right call for the club longer term

Tell us what these "right calls" are. I know you'll claim getting rid of Lukaku and Sanchez but I would argue that was at the detriment of the club, at least for the short term.

That's the issue, long term planning also requires short term thinking and Ole and a lot of people seem to ignore that.

 

[Leftback99]

I just find it nuts that our fans think that Pochettino would come here and would not have a better win ratio than 30%. 8% if we're taking away penalties scored. Just a damning statistic.

Poch had a 25% win ratio with a far better squad which most would have expected to finish 3rd pre season. But he'd definitely do better here because 'we're Man Utd' or something.

 

[peridigm]

Tell us what these "right calls" are. I know you'll claim getting rid of Lukaku and Sanchez but I would argue that was at the detriment of the club, at least for the short term.

That's the issue, long term planning also requires short term thinking and Ole and a lot of people seem to ignore that.

It was reported Sanchez was basically a loaner. Safe to say Lukaku did not have many friends in the dressing room with the way he orchestrated his departure. However, as fans we don't know what those players relationships were in the dressing room. If they were making a toxic atmosphere it's no wonder Ole wanted them gone. I remember reading Lukaku was behind Jose and was seriously bummed when he was sacked. He could have been contempt against other players for downing tools to get Jose out. It's all speculation of course but would not surprise me if any of it was true.

 

[el3mel]

Why are people acting like there's no other manager who can't do a rebuilding job other than a mediocre manager as Ole ? Are people seriously suggesting he's our best option for the rebuild ? And why ? Because he signed 3 very defensive counter attacking based players rather than buying players that will help the team to progress and play a proper style of play ? So no other manager can identify better targets, promote youngsters and play proper football so we should keep Ole ? It doesn't get any more delusional than this.

Do we need a rebuild ? Hell yes. Is Ole the man for such a job ? Feck no, based on everything, kind of football he plays, the nature of his signings, everything. Let's start this "rebuild" job under a proper manager.

 

[spiriticon]

Why are people acting like there's no other manager who can't do a rebuilding job other than a mediocre manager as Ole ? Are people seriously suggesting he's our best option for the rebuild ?

Who is the best option though? Will <insert manager name here> come with a guarantee of titles, a win rate of 60% while totally rebuilding the squad? No i don't think so. The likelihood is that <insert manager name here> will be utterly shite in the next year and some of us will want him(her?) sacked and will be on this forum asking for <insert yet another new manager name here> to take over.

 

[el3mel]

Who is the best option though? Will <insert manager name here> come with a guarantee of titles, a win rate of 60% while totally rebuilding the squad? No i don't think so. The likelihood is that <insert manager name here> will be utterly shite in the next year and some of us will want him(her?) sacked and will be on this forum asking for <insert yet another new manager name here> to take over.

I don't know what the next manager will do. However I know for sure Ole isn't the right choice for any rebuilding project, as his vision of football and nature of his signings aren't going to lead us anywhere forward and aren't the right direction, so I'll prefer trying another manager rather than sticking with a failing experiment. Logic says that, easily. Just because the next manager might fail, it doesn't mean sticking with a failing experiment. The next manager might fail due to being crap too or maybe due to other causes, who knows, but we know for sure Ole is a terrible experiment and his vision isn't good enough for the club.

 

[momo83]

Or an offer came in for a player on high wages who hardly played, and the club sold him before his value depreciated further. Ole might have been asked if he thought he'd have a need for him, but I don't believe for a second Ole would be allowed to initiate the sales of any players in that window.

The mental gymnastics

 

[spiriticon]

I don't know what the next manager will do. However I know for sure Ole isn't the right choice for any rebuilding project, as his vision of football and nature of his signings aren't going to lead us anywhere forward and aren't the right direction, so I'll prefer trying another manager rather than sticking with a failing experiment. Logic says that, easily. Just because the next manager might fail, it doesn't mean sticking with a failing experiment. The next manager might fail due to being crap too or maybe due to other causes, who knows, but we know for sure Ole is a terrible experiment and his vision isn't good enough for the club.

But what if failure is coming precisely because we haven't stuck at it?

 

[el3mel]

But what if failure is coming precisely because we haven't stuck at it?

Stuck at what ? I mean you choose a proper style of play and proper vision in players that're going to solve your problems and sure you can withstand few bad results here and there while seeing a proper plan being done, thus you can say we should stuck at it and see. Choose a terrible plan, with a terrible vision, and a terrible style and we can stuck with said manager for 5 more years and I doubt anything will improve, at all. Will be just being patient for the sake of it, rather than being based on anything.

 

[spiriticon]

Stuck at what ? I mean you choose a proper style of play and proper vision in players that're going to solve your problems and sure you can withstand few bad results here and there while seeing a proper plan being done, thus you can say we should stuck at it and see. Choose a terrible plan, with a terrible vision, and a terrible style and we can stuck with said manager for 5 more years and I doubt anything will improve, at all. Will be just being patient for the sake of it, rather than being based on anything.

The vision and plan for the team is good for me. I like our young team and our reactive counterattacking play is excellent. Our proactive buildup play on the other hand, is as limp and potent as a 70 year old. However, I've seen us play fecking awesome stuff in spurts so I can see something is there. It just comes out once every 3 to 4 games against lower opposition and the issue is finding that consistency. That will take time.

 

[Halftrack]

The mental gymnastics

Describing your own antics? Because it's hardly "mental gymnastics" to assume a newly hired interim manager isn't going to be allowed to buy and sell players. What I suggested is the far more likely scenario to anyone even trying to keep up the pretense of objectivity. But since you can't use that as a stick to beat Ole with, you'll go with the less likely one.

 

[Forevergiggs1]

Poch v Ole will (hopefully) soon be very easy to work out what footballing people outside of the caf think of the respective 2. When Ole gets the boot that will leave both of them without a job. I wonder where the 2 of them will go and which one will be out of a job the longest? Answers on a postcard please.
I'm guessing Poch will basically be able to choose any job he wants even though many on here think he's just an average manager and Ole will disappear never to be seen again, so which one would I choose between them? Clue... It's not Ole.

 

[el3mel]

The vision and plan for the team is good for me. I like our young team and our reactive counterattacking play is excellent. Our proactive buildup play on the other hand, is as limp and potent as a 70 year old. However, I've seen us play fecking awesome stuff in spurts so I can see something is there. It just comes out once every 3 to 4 games against lower league opposition and the issue is finding that consistency. That will take time.

For me I don't see it. The only 2 games we played proper offensive football this season were Norwich and Brighton, the rest are just either being counter attacking or being useless while having possession of the ball. Counterattacking isn't the right way going forward and isn't going to take us anywhere in a league where the majority of the teams are very defensive and prefer parking the bus while keeping everything tight and compact. The signings we made in the summer made the issue more obvious rather than helping improve our possession based issues, rather than signing some proper midfielders that help keep possession of the ball and being creative or a Center Back that's fast and good with the ball, we signed players that play better in low block and counter attacking, which made our offensive issues more clear, rather than solving it. The only good positive thing is playing youngsters but honestly any manager can do that anyway.

I respect your view but I honestly don't see with Ole. I don't like his vision, at all really.

 

[momo83]

Describing your own antics?

Ok mate. Ole had nothing to do with selling Fellaini. If that’s what you want to believe then believe. But then all those post back in January filled with people praising Ole for getting rid of Fellaini

 

[Halftrack]

Ok mate. Ole had nothing to do with selling Fellaini.

There, you see? It's not so hard when you apply yourself.

E: More seriously: The argument that Ole had the winter window hinges on whether or not he could make signings, regardless of whether or not he allowed a player to leave. As an interim manager, do you honestly believe he was allowed to sign players? No club would allow a caretaker to go out and make signings, since they might not even be there in a few months.

 

[Flying high]

You're making the mistake that we all don't recognise the issues the Glazers are causing. This is an issue with many people who are Ole In, they don't seem to grasp we do recognise those issues but Ole and Glazers are their own separate issues. Infact by supporting Solksjaer you may be helping the Glazers as they have what they want, a meek yes man who has the unwavering support of a lot of fans.

If you are expecting heavy investment next month you may as well start calling for his head now. Best case we sign 2 players, I think the most likely outcome is Haaland and then calls for patience again when he doesn't hit the ground running.

You cant claim Solksjaer has done a great job offloading unwanted players, praise his signings and then claim he hasn't moulded the squad to his liking. That's having your cake and eating it too.

Not unwavering, as I said.

I also said he's started moulding the squad. I'm not sure why you are trying to twist things like this.

 

[spiriticon]

For me I don't see it. The only 2 games we played proper offensive football this season were Norwich and Brighton, the rest are just either being counter attacking or being useless while having possession of the ball. Counterattacking isn't the right way going forward and isn't going to take us anywhere in a league where the majority of the teams are very defensive and prefer parking the bus while keeping everything tight and compact. The signings we made in the summer made the issue more obvious rather than helping improve our possession based issues, rather than signing some proper midfielders that help keep possession of the ball and being creative or a Center Back that's fast and good with the ball, we signed players that play better in low block and counter attacking, which made our offensive issues more clear, rather than solving it. The only good positive thing is playing youngsters but honestly any manager can do that anyway.

I respect your view but I honestly don't see with Ole. I don't like his vision, at all really.

Fair enough. I hated Mourinho's vision for the club so I can understand. I guess each to their own there. But that I'm saying is, i don't think there is any manager who will guarantee better results (or even football) within the next year (apart from maybe Mourinho, but we already used that trump card) so it will be still the same story again. Eventually you'll run out of managers, like Chelsea, and then we have to hire an ex-player like they have....

 

[Charles Miller]

Awful coach. Absurd defense.

 

[spiriticon]

To paraphrase a lot of pro-Ole posts... "We can't get rid of Ole because any other manager might also do a terrible job"

Am I really reading this shite correctly? What is wrong with people?

I think the correct paraphrase is 'We can get rid of Ole, but there no guarantee anything will be better'. To quote a lot of people here 'Insanity is when you keep doing something over and over again and expect it to work'.

Yeah it is, like sacking the manager

Edit: Or buying fecking centrebacks. Feck me we need to stop that shit.

 

[Rhyme Animal]

I don’t need the mob on here to agree with me, I post this stuff so that in 12 months when we’re hounding out the next poor bloke in the dugout I can say “told you so” like I’ve very much enjoyed doing with LvG and Jose.

So... in this post you're literally admitting - freely - that you only this post stuff so that you can say “told you so"...

Not sure what needs to be added to that, to be honest!

 

[matherto]

Let's start this "rebuild" job under a proper manager.

Like who?

 

[matherto]

To paraphrase a lot of pro-Ole posts... "We can't get rid of Ole because any other manager might also do a terrible job"

Am I really reading this shite correctly? What is wrong with people?

No, it's just there aren't any out there that would do a sufficiently good job to warrant sacking a manager and uprooting another year's worth of work in the process.

There's only Allegri and Poch and neither are particularly good or well suited to what we need.

 

[Rafaeldagold]

Because he's our current manager and we need to change tack at some point?

Not like we can keep Moyes, LVG or Jose is it?

What stupid logic.
We can still get rid of our ‘current’ manager. You don’t settle on an awful manager because you don’t like changing of manager..

 

[matherto]

What stupid logic.
We can still get rid of our ‘current’ manager. You don’t settle on an awful manager because you don’t like changing of manager..

You get rid of a manager if there's a suitable one available to replace them.

There isn't.