The “Ole In” Brigade

[Gary_Walsh_Nou_Camp_Hell]

You know Allegri is available, right?

And the cheek of you talking about ME wearing rose coloured glasses. Blind faith is all you have.

The rest of your top red nonsense and the later invoking of Busby and Fergie means you go on ignore.

If you read my post properly I talk about managers either being unavailable and managers offering no certainty that those available would actually improve United.

Anyone with a vague interest of football knows Allegri is not currently managing anyone. But why do you think he'd achieve anything with United's current team and way the club is run?

Allegrihad great success at a well run club that has been in the position to dominate Serie A for a long time now. No guarantee he would be a fit at United. He might, but it's another gamble like LVG and Mou.

Football is easy on paper. But the reality is that United need stability and a long term plan. Ole is resolving the squad issues, he's removed the internal toxic atmosphere at the club and gradually restoring some identity back to the team and it's connection with the people of Manchester.

 

[Sky1981]

Well going through this thread people are saying we need a 'top' manager of the standard of pep, klopp, allegri, tuchel etc - top tier managers are taking other jobs, highlighted 3 years ago when pep and klopp declined United. And we're less likely to bag top calibre now than then.

Take off the rose coloured glasses. Plenty of decent manager would jump at the chance to make a name for themselves at United. ButManagers with no record of winning anything though. And no certainty they'll improve United or stick around more than two years.

Decent squad? Ffs. It's threadbare and mediocre. The best players this season are Rashford, McTominay, Greenwood, Wiiliams - that tells you all you need to know. If he gets 5th and a cup with this squad then Ole's done well and deserves time to build something.

Never hear anyone in Manchester wanting Ole gone. Just the online lot...

You know carlo fecking ancelotti is managing everton fc right?

 

[hubbuh]

You know Allegri is available, right?

And the cheek of you talking about ME wearing rose coloured glasses. Blind faith is all you have.

The rest of your top red nonsense and the later invoking of Busby and Fergie means you go on ignore.

He made his point perfectly respectfully and reasonably. If it was said in the pub you wouldn’t bat an eyelid, and yet you deem the conversation bad enough that you make the point of ‘putting him on ignore’? It’s become an increasingly shit feature of the ‘caf that posters feel the need to announce when they’re putting someone on ignore. Why? We’re all United fans supporting the same cause (unless you’re an oppo, obviously). I can sort of see it in extreme instances but this was a normal interaction.

 

[The Bloody-Nine]

He made his point perfectly respectfully and reasonably. If it was said in the pub you wouldn’t bat an eyelid, and yet you deem the conversation bad enough that you make the point of ‘putting him on ignore’? It’s become an increasingly shit feature of the ‘caf that posters feel the need to announce when they’re putting someone on ignore. Why? We’re all United fans supporting the same cause (unless you’re an oppo, obviously). I can sort of see it in extreme instances but this was a normal interaction.

If you're Ole in and you can't argue in support of him without bringing up Busby, Fergie or Klopp, I've no interest in what you have to say. That nonsense has been torpedoed a million times in a million threads already. It's completely asinine.

The 'well, no fans from Manchester want him gone' bullshit was the icing on the cake. I appreciate your concern, though.

 

[Adam-Utd]

This squad doesn't lack talent, but it does/did lack balance.

No effective right wingers, too many CAM's that lack an individual threat and play safe.

No strikers that want to run in behind and get on the end of balls, they all want to feet.

Fullbacks that don't want to overlap and attack, rather sit deep and cross from safe positions.

Centre backs are inconsistent and poor in the air.

We have so many holes but we're getting through them - so far Ole has done a good job at that but we need 3/4 in the summer to catch us up.

It's clear as day without Rashford/Pogba we have zero individual ability to win matches. Martial has his moments but doesn't turn up enough, and as a striker he can't effect the game like that without service anyway.

Fernandes could be a big help in this regard, but we need to replace the likes of Mata/Pereira and add some genuine quality.

 

[Enigma_87]

He made his point perfectly respectfully and reasonably. If it was said in the pub you wouldn’t bat an eyelid, and yet you deem the conversation bad enough that you make the point of ‘putting him on ignore’? It’s become an increasingly shit feature of the ‘caf that posters feel the need to announce when they’re putting someone on ignore. Why? We’re all United fans supporting the same cause (unless you’re an oppo, obviously). I can sort of see it in extreme instances but this was a normal interaction.

Just like some supporters who put the players before the club I see a lot of Ole supporters that put him before the club. I’m not so sure they are united supporters rather than ole supporters who are ok with the club plummeting even more but keeping Ole in charge.

 

[Forevergiggs1]

Chelsea have a strong core of experienced talent such as Pedro, Willian, Kante, Jorginho, Giroud, Azpilicuetta, Alonso, Barkley - this strong core allows their talented young players not to have to carry the team (unlike United).

Spurs have a great squad; Son, Kane, Moura, Ali, Sissoko, Dier, Vertonghen, Alderweireld, Winks, Lamela, Wanyama. They all walk into United's team.

It's amazing how some people can't see United are threadbare and lacking quality.

You have got to be kidding, right?

 

[hubbuh]

If you're Ole in and you can't argue in support of him without bringing up Busby, Fergie or Klopp, I've no interest in what you have to say. That nonsense has been torpedoed a million times in a million threads already. It's completely asinine.

The 'well, no fans from Manchester want him gone' bullshit was the icing on the cake. I appreciate your concern, though.

You must have some United friends/family/coworkers etc. that put more stock into the romantic and sentimental line of argument than most, though. My dad is a bit like that, though I wouldn’t want to put him on ignore (maybe occasionally, but not because of his footballing opinions).

I’m extremely concerned. I can tell you’re not. For that reason, ignored.

Just like some supporters who put the players before the club I see a lot of Oke supporters that put him before the club. I’m not so sure they are united supporters rather than ole supporters who are ok with the club plummeting even more but keeping Ole in charge.

Rubbish. I have a friend that’s only now starting to accept that Ole might have to go. He’s as passionate as anyone about seeing United do well. He just happens to have a different opinion and a belief about what we should do to make things right.

 

[The Bloody-Nine]

You must have some United friends/family/coworkers etc. that put more stock into the romantic and sentimental line of argument than most, though. My dad is a bit like that, though I wouldn’t want to put him on ignore (maybe occasionally, but not because of his footballing opinions).

I’m extremely concerned. I can tell you’re not. For that reason, ignored.

That's the spirit!

 

[el3mel]

The logic of "no top manager will get the job so instead of getting other decent managers let's stick on with a manager doing a crap job" is just hilariously bad and doesn't deserve anything bar sarcastic comments. This logic would have never been said if the current manager isn't a club legend.

 

[hubbuh]

 

[el3mel]

Of course there are some here who care about Ole staying as a manager more than what the club is doing, to the point of slaughtering everything else to make Ole blameless. For them it's OK to slaughter players, board, CEO, medical stuff and everyone else but criticizing Ole means you aren't a true fan but a glory hunter. The irony is so so strong with these people.

 

[Enigma_87]

Rubbish. I have a friend that’s only now starting to accept that Ole might have to go. He’s as passionate as anyone about seeing United do well. He just happens to have a different opinion and a belief about what we should do to make things right.

And I have many, including regular match goers that wanted him off last season.
Of course there are multiple opinions but surely 14 months are well enough even for the most patient ones to see what’s going on?

 

[TheRedDevil'sAdvocate]

The logic of "no top manager will get the job so instead of getting other decent managers let's stick on with a manager doing a crap job" is just hilariously bad and doesn't deserve anything bar sarcastic comments. This logic would have never been said if the current manager isn't a club legend.

Going through the last few pages, it felt like the new line of defence is that Solskjaer is basically doing us a favour by staying here and managing a horror squad that no good manager would dare touch... Maybe he deserves a raise for all his efforts instead of a sacking. Can you imagine being paid 7.5 million annually and being given 200 million to spend just to have so many people jumping on you because you've had the worst results in over 30 years? Unheard of! Absolutely disgusting. Don't you know we don't have enough quality in the squad? It doesn't matter that he had a 6-month free ride and he failed to grasp that Pogba was the only creative midfielder we have in the squad. Don't you know that Lampard has more experienced players to work with? The cheating bastard... he should have let Willian, Pedro and Giroud leave, promote 18 year-olds and have a threadbare squad like ours to even things out.

 

[Gary_Walsh_Nou_Camp_Hell]

You know carlo fecking ancelotti is managing everton fc right?

He's been tempted back by a huge salary. He'll stick there 2 years and be off (that's not what United need as a club right now).

Of course he's a legendary manager, but doubtful he'd get much of a tune out the squad we have got. Fergie apparently thought Ancelotti would be a good replacement in 2013 but wasn't to be. Sometimes it's just the timing isn't right.

Ancelotti wouldn't be a long term option - I strongly think that United need to just stick with Ole (unless things dramatically turn for the worse) and see how some continutity and stability works - after 7 years of starting from scratch every 2-3 years.

 

[Gary_Walsh_Nou_Camp_Hell]

You have got to be kidding, right?

You wouldn't swap:

Matic, Lingard, Fred, Martial, Pereira and Lindeloff

For:

Kante, Son, Willian, Kane, Lucas Moura and Vertonghen

I think it must be you who's kidding...

 

[Gary_Walsh_Nou_Camp_Hell]

He made his point perfectly respectfully and reasonably. If it was said in the pub you wouldn’t bat an eyelid, and yet you deem the conversation bad enough that you make the point of ‘putting him on ignore’? It’s become an increasingly shit feature of the ‘caf that posters feel the need to announce when they’re putting someone on ignore. Why? We’re all United fans supporting the same cause (unless you’re an oppo, obviously). I can sort of see it in extreme instances but this was a normal interaction.

Imagine getting wound up when someone has an opposing view on a football forum haha

 

[Water Melon]

Going through the last few pages, it felt like the new line of defence is that Solskjaer is basically doing us a favour by staying here and managing a horror squad that no good manager would dare touch... Maybe he deserves a raise for all his efforts instead of a sacking. Can you imagine being paid 7.5 million annually and being given 200 million to spend just to have so many people jumping on you because you've had the worst results in over 30 years? Unheard of! Absolutely disgusting. Don't you know we don't have enough quality in the squad? It doesn't matter that he had a 6-month free ride and he failed to grasp that Pogba was the only creative midfielder we have in the squad. Don't you know that Lampard has more experienced players to work with? The cheating bastard... he should have let Willian, Pedro and Giroud leave, promote 18 year-olds and have a threadbare squad like ours to even things out.

Fully agree. Hopefully, Woody has already realized that we are not going anywhere forward under Ole and contacted Poch.

 

[Sky1981]

He's been tempted back by a huge salary. He'll stick there 2 years and be off (that's not what United need as a club right now).

Of course he's a legendary manager, but doubtful he'd get much of a tune out the squad we have got. Fergie apparently thought Ancelotti would be a good replacement in 2013 but wasn't to be. Sometimes it's just the timing isn't right.

Ancelotti wouldn't be a long term option - I strongly think that United need to just stick with Ole (unless things dramatically turn for the worse) and see how some continutity and stability works - after 7 years of starting from scratch every 2-3 years.

You know ole is one of the most highly paid manager in the league. Dont you?

 

[Gary_Walsh_Nou_Camp_Hell]

You know ole is one of the most highly paid manager in the league. Dont you?

Any United manager would be.

Convenient you avoid the actually points of my post though...

 

[Forevergiggs1]

You wouldn't swap:

Matic, Lingard, Fred, Martial, Pereira and Lindeloff

For:

Kante, Son, Willian, Kane, Lucas Moura and Vertonghen

I think it must be you who's kidding...

Nice moving the goal posts in making your argument better. This is the Chelski side you first mentioned that had such a strong core they didn't have to depend on youngsters.

Pedro, Willian, Kante, Jorginho, Giroud, Azpilicuetta, Alonso, Barkley.

This is the Spurs side who you said would walk into our team.

Son, Kane, Moura, Ali, Sissoko, Dier, Vertonghen, Alderweireld, Winks, Lamela, Wanyama.

You then change your plan of attack and pick the best players from each team as a reason why they're better than us. In Oles own words. "the groundsman must have moved the goal 2 inches to the right." you my friend have taken them out of the stadium.

 

[jem]

Just like some supporters who put the players before the club I see a lot of Ole supporters that put him before the club. I’m not so sure they are united supporters rather than ole supporters who are ok with the club plummeting even more but keeping Ole in charge.

I'm kind of sceptical that more than a handful of those people exist. What I do think is that some people are a bit blinded by nostalgia and hope: Man United legend who seemingly gets the club + pledge to buy youthful players who also get the club = replica of Guardiola at Barca or something similar. There's nothing really wrong with that. I got swept up in it all at this time last year; I even created a post moaning about the all the pre-emptive doom-mongering coming from those predicting Ole would ultimately fail (they were proven right in the end, but I don't regret the post.) After the end of Mourinho's reign and the shit served up by Moyes and LVG, it was the first time in years that I actually looked forward to watching United play.

I was, however, a bit sceptical about giving Ole the contract before the season ended, and sadly I feel my fears have been confirmed. I just feel he's nowhere near the standard required for us to challenge at the top, particularly given how hamstrung he is by our useless board (Ed and co.)

At this point, it's probably worth giving him until the end of the season, as I can't see anyone really stepping in right now (except maybe Pochettino,) but I would hope that planning is under way to find his more qualified replacement by the summer (I have zero optimism in that actually happening - I guess I'm guilty now of pre-emptive doom-mongering.)

 

[crossy1686]

You know ole is one of the most highly paid manager in the league. Dont you?

He has to be, we’ve got players on £300k + a week. Imagine how undermining it would be to pay the boss £80k a week when Jones is on that?

 

[Sky1981]

Any United manager would be.

Convenient you avoid the actually points of my post though...

which? You mean this?

He's been tempted back by a huge salary. He'll stick there 2 years and be off (that's not what United need as a club right now).

Of course he's a legendary manager, but doubtful he'd get much of a tune out the squad we have got. Fergie apparently thought Ancelotti would be a good replacement in 2013 but wasn't to be. Sometimes it's just the timing isn't right.

Ancelotti wouldn't be a long term option - I strongly think that United need to just stick with Ole (unless things dramatically turn for the worse) and see how some continutity and stability works - after 7 years of starting from scratch every 2-3 years.

That's very disrespectful towards Carlo Ancelotti, if he's tempted by money alone he won't accept working for Tottenham, and Carlo Ancelotti is known to be a loyal manager, who seldom moves around unless he got sacked.

To claim he can't get tune out of the squad we have is a total disrespect towards him. So he can't get us to working and Ole can?

 

[Livvie]

I honestly don't know what I think...I can come up with positives and negatives. I wouldn't be averse to Poch - he did wonders at Southampton, but with Spurs he promised much but ultimately failed. Ole is an enigma. You can't write off the fact that he gave us the best three months we've had since Fergie left. And how is itthat we've beaten all the top sides bar Liverpool, but we took points off them, and are the only team to have done so. Is it down to Ole that we don't seem to be able to beat the lower sides? Is it fair to expect Ole to succeed where Moyes, LVG, and Jose failed - I still like Jose, but those last few months with him in charge were just dire.

 

[Lee565]

So what would be the excuses made up for ole if the likes of everton, wolves and sheffield United finish ahead of us this season because I can see it happening at this rate with the form of the other teams compared to ours.

 

[lex talionis]

Ole has clearly delivered results that have disappointed reasonable expectations. No one here expected us to win major trophies this, except the EL trophy (we still have a great shot, at least as of this post), but we did expect to dispatch bottom half clubs on a more regular basis.

But in all fairness to Ole, he took over a completely broken squad from Jose, who has somehow managed to escape criticism from the British media for what really was a shambolic job. I had high hoes for us under Jose but I could not have been more wrong about the wisdom of bringing him in.

Finish the season out with Ole, but if Allegri is available -- and he's managed to learn English -- the club would be wise to hire him. We're close enough now that, with the addition of four new players and with a proven winner like Allegri (there are others), we can compete for the PL trophy even as soon as next season. Four players is not a small number but I'm assuming Pogba will be gone and for me Martial just isn't going to cut it.

 

[Sky1981]

I honestly don't know what I think...I can come up with positives and negatives. I wouldn't be averse to Poch - he did wonders at Southampton, but with Spurs he promised much but ultimately failed. Ole is an enigma. You can't write off the fact that he gave us the best three months we've had since Fergie left. And how is itthat we've beaten all the top sides bar Liverpool, but we took points off them, and are the only team to have done so. Is it down to Ole that we don't seem to be able to beat the lower sides? Is it fair to expect Ole to succeed where Moyes, LVG, and Jose failed - I still like Jose, but those last few months with him in charge were just dire.

That 3 months was obtained with pretty much 100% Jose team.

 

[Forevergiggs1]

That 3 months was obtained with pretty much 100% Jose team.

I can just imagine Oles team talk in that period. "just go out and enjoy yourself lads."
The very second we had something to play for (top 4) is when it all went to shit. All well and good winning when there's no pressure on but Ole forgot that pressure is part of the job and basically him and the squad have been bottling it ever since.

 

[MrEarl]

It seems to me that many of the arguments pro and con are very general. Like, the squad is decent.. No it's not. OGS is out of his depth. He has no system. Yes he does. And so on.

Let me try some specificity. The problem with the squad is a gaping hole in central midfield. OGS was handed a team at the start of the season that had one proven Premier League CM. And that player, Pogba, has been out injured for most of the season. Under OGS management we ended up with two CMs, Fred and McT. Then McT sustained a long term injury.

I suggest the squad may well be decent with the exception of the huge hole in CM. Well, the strikers aren't scoring. The old adage is a striker is only as good as the service he gets. Without a CM there is little to no service and it certainly becomes extremely difficult to break down the defensive teams. We won't know to what extent they can score until they compete with a decent CM.

The defense is fraught with errors. But, without a decent CM shielding them, they are exposed rather than protected. That exaggerates their errors. We may find that with a three or four man decent CM the current defensive unit is quite solid.

We can only tell if they get a chance to play with a solid CM. Imagine a four man CM of Bruno, Pogba, Fred and McT. That team would dominate central midfield hopefully to the point of breaking down the park the bus teams,. But would it also produce the needed goals? It would be valuable to find out .The defense would have a solid shield. Looks like a very decent squad to me but the only way to tell is to experience it.

At the very least we would have a better idea of what OGS can or cannot do. We would have a better idea of where the squad needs strengthening. Suppose the team ends up looking quite good. Naturally there would be areas that could use improvement but there would still be a huge gaping hole in lack of depth. There are no adequate substitutes at least in CM. What it needs is depth as the injuries to the team's three most important players demonstrate today.

BTW it may be that Matic is not as bad as he looks. Possibly, the shortage of other CMs exposes his lack of pace. Last year the loss of Herrera brought the OGS miracle run to a halt. There were no CM replacements for Herrera. It was at that time when Matic seemed to become a liability.

 

[Rado_N]

Never hear anyone in Manchester wanting Ole gone. Just the online lot...

 

[Foxbatt]

Why not get Sheringham as the Manager? After all he scored the equaliser and created the goal Ole scored. So he has a bigger hand than Ole in winning the CL.

 

[yorkiered]

''but if Allegri is available -- and he's managed to learn English -- the club would be wise to hire him''.

How is it a wise move ? u enjoy watching his style of boring defensive play ?, might as well bring back van gaal.

 

[devilish]

which? You mean this?



That's very disrespectful towards Carlo Ancelotti, if he's tempted by money alone he won't accept working for Tottenham, and Carlo Ancelotti is known to be a loyal manager, who seldom moves around unless he got sacked.

To claim he can't get tune out of the squad we have is a total disrespect towards him. So he can't get us to working and Ole can?

The problem with Carlo is that he's the anti Mourinho. He will sit there, he will take the hits, he will work with what he's got until he either says enough is enough or he gets sacked. Berlusconi has removed the backbone out of the guy, which is a shame really as he's a top top manager.

Which explains why he had attracted the attention of most despicable owners/CEO (Roman, Berlusconi, Real and De Laurentiis). The guy will soak the hits.

 

[Tony247]

There are so many threads on Ole to discuss, debate and argue exact same thing!

 

[L1nk]

It seems to me that many of the arguments pro and con are very general. Like, the squad is decent.. No it's not. OGS is out of his depth. He has no system. Yes he does. And so on.

Let me try some specificity. The problem with the squad is a gaping hole in central midfield. OGS was handed a team at the start of the season that had one proven Premier League CM. And that player, Pogba, has been out injured for most of the season. Under OGS management we ended up with two CMs, Fred and McT. Then McT sustained a long term injury.

I suggest the squad may well be decent with the exception of the huge hole in CM. Well, the strikers aren't scoring. The old adage is a striker is only as good as the service he gets. Without a CM there is little to no service and it certainly becomes extremely difficult to break down the defensive teams. We won't know to what extent they can score until they compete with a decent CM.

The defense is fraught with errors. But, without a decent CM shielding them, they are exposed rather than protected. That exaggerates their errors. We may find that with a three or four man decent CM the current defensive unit is quite solid.

We can only tell if they get a chance to play with a solid CM. Imagine a four man CM of Bruno, Pogba, Fred and McT. That team would dominate central midfield hopefully to the point of breaking down the park the bus teams,. But would it also produce the needed goals? It would be valuable to find out .The defense would have a solid shield. Looks like a very decent squad to me but the only way to tell is to experience it.

At the very least we would have a better idea of what OGS can or cannot do. We would have a better idea of where the squad needs strengthening. Suppose the team ends up looking quite good. Naturally there would be areas that could use improvement but there would still be a huge gaping hole in lack of depth. There are no adequate substitutes at least in CM. What it needs is depth as the injuries to the team's three most important players demonstrate today.

BTW it may be that Matic is not as bad as he looks. Possibly, the shortage of other CMs exposes his lack of pace. Last year the loss of Herrera brought the OGS miracle run to a halt. There were no CM replacements for Herrera. It was at that time when Matic seemed to become a liability.

I'll say it again for the umpteenth time to whoever, do we or do we not have a better team than Sheffield United, Everton, Wolves, Burnley, Newcastle, Southampton, Palace etc

Sheffield, Everton, Wolves, Everton - Currently above us in the league table
Burnley - 1 point below
Arsenal, Newcastle, Southampton - 4 points below

Nobody is expecting a jump to City, Liverpool levels without some time and investment, nobody should be advocating for a manager of Manchester United to be given more time when he only has us sitting 11 points from the relegation zone, and has us behind teams like Sheffield United who only came up from the Championship last season, I don't care who he is, i'm not having it, we having holes in this squad and its not the best squad for sure, but it's better than pissing Newcastle's, Sheffields etc.

 

[Freeney]

This squad doesn't lack talent, but it does/did lack balance.

No effective right wingers, too many CAM's that lack an individual threat and play safe.

No strikers that want to run in behind and get on the end of balls, they all want to feet.

Fullbacks that don't want to overlap and attack, rather sit deep and cross from safe positions.

Centre backs are inconsistent and poor in the air.

We have so many holes but we're getting through them - so far Ole has done a good job at that but we need 3/4 in the summer to catch us up.

It's clear as day without Rashford/Pogba we have zero individual ability to win matches. Martial has his moments but doesn't turn up enough, and as a striker he can't effect the game like that without service anyway.

Fernandes could be a big help in this regard, but we need to replace the likes of Mata/Pereira and add some genuine quality.

Spot on. I would however add Martial to the Rashford and Pogba camp. Just look how hard it was for Rashford to do anything up top when he was playing as a lone striker without Martial or Pogba in the team. He was basically getting the same criticism as Martial is getting now.

 

[Adam-Utd]

Spot on. I would however add Martial to the Rashford and Pogba camp. Just look how hard it was for Rashford to do anything up top when he was playing as a lone striker without Martial or Pogba in the team. He was basically getting the same criticism as Martial is getting now.

Yep that's fair, but he does need to do a bit more himself to get chances to score. Too often he's happy being a playmaker with the ball to feet, rather than being there for a tap in.

 

[Livvie]

That 3 months was obtained with pretty much 100% Jose team.

I know that. The same players who had just played abysmally against City and Liverpool.

 

[Stadjer]

He made his point perfectly respectfully and reasonably. If it was said in the pub you wouldn’t bat an eyelid, and yet you deem the conversation bad enough that you make the point of ‘putting him on ignore’? It’s become an increasingly shit feature of the ‘caf that posters feel the need to announce when they’re putting someone on ignore. Why? We’re all United fans supporting the same cause (unless you’re an oppo, obviously). I can sort of see it in extreme instances but this was a normal interaction.

The "never hear anyone in Manchester wanting Ole gone.. just the online lot" kind of ruined the whole post though.