The “Ole In” Brigade

It seems to me that many of the arguments pro and con are very general. Like, the squad is decent.. No it's not. OGS is out of his depth. He has no system. Yes he does. And so on.

Let me try some specificity. The problem with the squad is a gaping hole in central midfield. OGS was handed a team at the start of the season that had one proven Premier League CM. And that player, Pogba, has been out injured for most of the season. Under OGS management we ended up with two CMs, Fred and McT. Then McT sustained a long term injury.

I suggest the squad may well be decent with the exception of the huge hole in CM. Well, the strikers aren't scoring. The old adage is a striker is only as good as the service he gets. Without a CM there is little to no service and it certainly becomes extremely difficult to break down the defensive teams. We won't know to what extent they can score until they compete with a decent CM.

The defense is fraught with errors. But, without a decent CM shielding them, they are exposed rather than protected. That exaggerates their errors. We may find that with a three or four man decent CM the current defensive unit is quite solid.

We can only tell if they get a chance to play with a solid CM. Imagine a four man CM of Bruno, Pogba, Fred and McT. That team would dominate central midfield hopefully to the point of breaking down the park the bus teams,. But would it also produce the needed goals? It would be valuable to find out .The defense would have a solid shield. Looks like a very decent squad to me but the only way to tell is to experience it.

At the very least we would have a better idea of what OGS can or cannot do. We would have a better idea of where the squad needs strengthening. Suppose the team ends up looking quite good. Naturally there would be areas that could use improvement but there would still be a huge gaping hole in lack of depth. There are no adequate substitutes at least in CM. What it needs is depth as the injuries to the team's three most important players demonstrate today.

BTW it may be that Matic is not as bad as he looks. Possibly, the shortage of other CMs exposes his lack of pace. Last year the loss of Herrera brought the OGS miracle run to a halt. There were no CM replacements for Herrera. It was at that time when Matic seemed to become a liability.

Good post. Lot of talk about our squad in comparison with the likes of Wolves and Sheff Utd. We quite obviously have a lot more talent than those clubs, but there are also undeniable issues that hold this team back.

I'm often dismayed by the inconsistency of the criticism on here. On the one hand we have people (rightly) stating that the creative options we've had available to us for most of the season - ie Lingard and Pereira - are not nearly good enough for this level, and yet we will still be astounded by a performance in which we struggle to create chances and put it all down to coaching. To add to that, widespread criticism of our 'counter attacking' approach in certain fixtures when the main purpose of that tactic is largely designed to make us more dangerous when we lack creative ability in the team. We actually turn an attempt to overcome our shortcomings into a negative.
 
Meet Julian Nagelsmann, the manager your club wants to hire


Nagelsmann looks to the Premier League for a dose of inspiration. As a manager consumed with finding the edges, he is a keen observer of how those at the top of the game succeed in sourcing and implementing advantages.

“I watch a lot of Liverpool and Manchester City,” he admits. “Last season, City had great flexibility, so many ways to open up the game and interesting positions in ball possession. It’s always fascinating to watch Pep Guardiola teams.

“Liverpool have developed so well, especially in possession and having variety. In the first two seasons under Jurgen Klopp, it was more about counter-attack and creating attacking moments. That’s the same process we are going through now at Leipzig, expanding to not only rely on pressing and counters.


“If you want to be a good manager, you have to watch Liverpool games. What they are doing is incredible. It’s the performances that you can learn from, but more importantly, is what you can take away from their mentality.

“It’s totally crazy when you’re so successful, you’re 22 points ahead of the next team in the league, but you do more and more and more to win games. That is a big message to give to players, especially the young ones.

“They should learn from Liverpool to always be hungry, to be better. It doesn’t matter if you’re nearly the champion, you still win and win and win and win.”
 
Here's something to think about,

For all our malaise, it will be better if it's handled by someone more competent.

Player not good enough?
Squad imbalanced?
Deadwood?

Why leave it to ole to rebuild the squad if he's not good enough to utilize the final product. The next manager arent guaranteed to like ole's team (and he doesnt work on peanuts). We might be close to spending another 400m and will due another rebuild once ole's done with his vanity project.

His purchase:
James
Awb
Maguire

Isnt actually title challenging material. At best they're top 4 material. James is bottom table player now that he's found out
 
Nice moving the goal posts in making your argument better. This is the Chelski side you first mentioned that had such a strong core they didn't have to depend on youngsters.

Pedro, Willian, Kante, Jorginho, Giroud, Azpilicuetta, Alonso, Barkley.

This is the Spurs side who you said would walk into our team.

Son, Kane, Moura, Ali, Sissoko, Dier, Vertonghen, Alderweireld, Winks, Lamela, Wanyama.

You then change your plan of attack and pick the best players from each team as a reason why they're better than us. In Oles own words. "the groundsman must have moved the goal 2 inches to the right." you my friend have taken them out of the stadium.

I've not changed the goal posts. I listen all the players from both Chelsea and Spurs that clearly highlight that they have stronger squads than United.

You ridiculed my post and said I must be kidding. So I listed a mix of players from both squads that walk into United's team anyday.

Make your mind up, so Chelsea and Spurs have better squads than Ole is coping with???
 
which? You mean this?



That's very disrespectful towards Carlo Ancelotti, if he's tempted by money alone he won't accept working for Tottenham, and Carlo Ancelotti is known to be a loyal manager, who seldom moves around unless he got sacked.

To claim he can't get tune out of the squad we have is a total disrespect towards him. So he can't get us to working and Ole can?

My point is that NOBODY is going to do much with the current squad at United. No point sacking Ole to let anothet manager fail with this sqaud. We should let Ole build on what he's trying to do, a long term plan - rather than rip it up and start again, with no guarantee that would achieve anything.
 
My point is that NOBODY is going to do much with the current squad at United. No point sacking Ole to let anothet manager fail with this sqaud. We should let Ole build on what he's trying to do, a long term plan - rather than rip it up and start again, with no guarantee that would achieve anything.

What exactly will a new manager most likely Pochettino rip up?
 
What exactly will a new manager most likely Pochettino rip up?

The long term rebuilding plans that are clearly in place. Getting rid of all toxic shit in the squad, working on the cohesive transfer policy that seems to be in place.

A rebuild takes time, people just need some patience.

Ripping up the plans and starting again every 2 years has hardly worked out well for United since Fergie left.

As for Poch, a guy that won nothing with a far better bunch of players that he'd be working with a United would not guarantee any improvement.

Whoever manages this United would need time and patience to make meaningful changes to United's long term outlook.
 
The long term rebuilding plans that are clearly in place. Getting rid of all toxic shit in the squad, working on the cohesive transfer policy that seems to be in place.

A rebuild takes time, people just need some patience.

Ripping up the plans and starting again every 2 years has hardly worked out well for United since Fergie left.

As for Poch, a guy that won nothing with a far better bunch of players that he'd be working with a United would not guarantee any improvement.

Whoever manages this United would need time and patience to make meaningful changes to United's long term outlook.

If there's a longterm rebuild that is clearly in place like you say. If we are getting rid of toxic shit like you say. And if we have a cohesive transfer policy like you say. I mean you do know this is a DoFs job and DoFs sacks their managers for underperforming and hire another one. When this happens does the DOF scrap his long term plan and transfer policy because of a new manager? If it's the club that's rebuilding then it shouldn't be reliant on the manager in charge.

As for Poch.. A guy that built up that better squad that people criticize for winning nothing and took them to the champions league final and consistent top 4, something we've been unable to achieve or even come close to since Ferguson will be an improvement
 
The long term rebuilding plans that are clearly in place. Getting rid of all toxic shit in the squad, working on the cohesive transfer policy that seems to be in place.

A rebuild takes time, people just need some patience.

Ripping up the plans and starting again every 2 years has hardly worked out well for United since Fergie left.

As for Poch, a guy that won nothing with a far better bunch of players that he'd be working with a United would not guarantee any improvement.

Whoever manages this United would need time and patience to make meaningful changes to United's long term outlook.
Blind faith. We’re 8th mate. 8th.
 
I've not changed the goal posts. I listen all the players from both Chelsea and Spurs that clearly highlight that they have stronger squads than United.

You ridiculed my post and said I must be kidding. So I listed a mix of players from both squads that walk into United's team anyday.

Make your mind up, so Chelsea and Spurs have better squads than Ole is coping with???

We can go round the block as many times as you want but I no way agree that Spurs and Chelsea have better squads than us.

Spurs don't have a better keeper than us. Spurs don't have a better defence than us. Even without Pogba I wouldn't say they have a better midfield than us. Winks when he's good he's very good but that isn't very often. Dier I don't know how he's a professional footballer, Ndombele has been injured so much it's hard to see how good/bad he really is. Lo Celso has yet to come to terms with the PL. Wanyama wouldn't get near our team. Dele on the last few seasons form wouldn't get near our team. Moura is a very hit and miss player. Son would walk into our team and so would Kane but as he's out until almost the end of the season he won't affect the run in too much for CL places.

You look now at the Chelsea squad and it does look better than ours but at the start of the season not many people gave them a hope of CL football. Last seasons Jorginho, Kovacic Pedro, Willian and even Kante were far from their best, Pulisic is very hit and miss, their youngsters like CHO, Mount and Abraham wouldn't be guaranteed starters for us, Reece James although I rate him highly wouldn't start over our own £50m RB, Alonso, Azpil and Barkley wouldn't get in our team. Tomori wouldn't start over Lindelof, Rudiger would.

I'd say at best the respective squads are at a pretty similar level. What's going to make the difference is the coaching so we'll just have to wait and see how it all plays out.
 
Before start of the season everyone was predicting Chelsea to finish 5th or 6th and thoughy they were totally fecked and that was solidified by the first match in the season but now that they ended up having a better season than us and have been a consistent top 4 while we are languishing outside it for the entire season they suddenly have a better squad than us. I like the continuous narrative changing from Ole supporters. For them any club that is doing better than us is just doing it because they have better players.
 
It’s very simple now, Ole starts doing a much better job or he’s sacked in the summer. Long term plans are irrelevant when you are performing this badly and club won’t allow it to continue.

Ole isn’t offering anything that someone else can’t, he’s just highlighting a better manager is needed. If we had a better manager this season we’d be higher in the table with more points.
 
My point is that NOBODY is going to do much with the current squad at United. No point sacking Ole to let anothet manager fail with this sqaud. We should let Ole build on what he's trying to do, a long term plan - rather than rip it up and start again, with no guarantee that would achieve anything.

Nobody is going to do much better than ole? He's ole. Not alex Ferguson
 
Ole isn’t a coach!! He isn’t getting the best out of the current squad so I think it’s wrong to say anyone else coming in couldn’t do better. Poch would thrive with this squad.
 
Yep that's fair, but he does need to do a bit more himself to get chances to score. Too often he's happy being a playmaker with the ball to feet, rather than being there for a tap in.
That is true. He needs to be more desperate to score a goal and be a bit more selfish in and around the box. Lets hope its down to him not playing up top for a while and nothing else.
 
You can't say my experience in real life Manchester are't true. The vitriol and mass hysteria that seems normal on Redcafe does not reflect the mood on the ground here.

I live and work in Manchester and the idea that nobody here wants him out was met with the only suitable response; laughter.
 
The long term rebuilding plans that are clearly in place. Getting rid of all toxic shit in the squad, working on the cohesive transfer policy that seems to be in place.

A rebuild takes time, people just need some patience.

Ripping up the plans and starting again every 2 years has hardly worked out well for United since Fergie left.

As for Poch, a guy that won nothing with a far better bunch of players that he'd be working with a United would not guarantee any improvement.

Whoever manages this United would need time and patience to make meaningful changes to United's long term outlook.

Deadwood includes the manager.
 
We're 9th actually...

Ole took over a squad that finished 2nd the previous season and now with his magical touch we are 9th. With another summer window we may have a better squad than sheffeild united.
 
I live and work in Manchester and the idea that nobody here wants him out was met with the only suitable response; laughter.

As i clearly state 'in my experience' everyone I know and chat to in Manchester thinks there's no point sacking Ole at this stage.

Laugh all you want. I remember when we laughed at sacking clubs.
 
As i clearly state 'in my experience' everyone I know and chat to in Manchester thinks there's no point sacking Ole at this stage.

Laugh all you want. I remember when we laughed at sacking clubs.
Every club is a sacking club ffs.

Managers get paid millions - they have to deliver. There isn't a single club that will give a failing manager a job for life.
 
As i clearly state 'in my experience' everyone I know and chat to in Manchester thinks there's no point sacking Ole at this stage.

Laugh all you want. I remember when we laughed at sacking clubs.

Who exactly is "we"? Because it's one of the most ridiculous notion and only few people actually think that it makes any sense, if the club followed that logic SAF would have never joined us in the middle of the season.
 
The long term rebuilding plans that are clearly in place. Getting rid of all toxic shit in the squad, working on the cohesive transfer policy that seems to be in place.

A rebuild takes time, people just need some patience.

Ripping up the plans and starting again every 2 years has hardly worked out well for United since Fergie left.

As for Poch, a guy that won nothing with a far better bunch of players that he'd be working with a United would not guarantee any improvement.

Whoever manages this United would need time and patience to make meaningful changes to United's long term outlook.
We’ve recently extended the contract of Andreas Periera - there is nothing more toxic than his mediocrity accompanied with the fact he can play as bad as he does to be back in the team the next week but yes selling Pogba is the answer.

Rebuilds do indeed take time but you also need to rebuild with quality; asset stripping the likes of Lakaku & [potentially] Pogba whilst extending the likes of Mata & Periera isn’t a good thing; I don’t care how people attempt to dress it. Fernandes in, Herrera out. It’s one good move after one bad move; & counterproductive.

Persisting with something that isn’t working isn’t a sign of patience it’s a sign of stupidity; the squad is far from ideal but the manager isn’t even delivering on minimal expectations; the man has coached down to the weaknesses of the squad instead of finding its strengths & coaching it up.

Funny how your ‘clear signs of this rebuild’ have nothing to do with the product on the pitch because as is usually the case with ‘OgS defendants’ there’s nothing on the pitch to show signs of progression/hope.
 
Every club is a sacking club ffs.

Managers get paid millions - they have to deliver. There isn't a single club that will give a failing manager a job for life.

You don't know what the term sacking club means.

United have long had a culture of giving managers a fair amount of time. Only recently has this changed. But seems the club are trying to restore some of the core values again.
 
Who exactly is "we"? Because it's one of the most ridiculous notion and only few people actually think that it makes any sense, if the club followed that logic SAF would have never joined us in the middle of the season.

Big Ron had plenty of time and money to make it work at United. Ultimately failure and other 'antics' got him fired. United always gave managers a fair go
 
Big Ron had plenty of time and money to make it work at United. Ultimately failure and other 'antics' got him fired. United always gave managers a fair go

All clubs give a manager a fair go, none of them want the manager to fail. And all of them are sacking clubs because they sack underperforming managers.
 
Very persuasive arguement

I don't know if you are being sarcastic, but there just like there is no point in holding unto sub-par players there is no point in holding onto a sub-par manager considering that he is the most important man in the club.
 
It’s the 16th of February and we have amassed a total of 35 points. What possible argument someone could make for the manager of a team with that points tally?