Yes indeed, not nearly as mature and rational as the other side of the argument in all this
The “Ole In” Brigade
- Thread starter Lentwood
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Yes indeed, not nearly as mature and rational as the other side of the argument in all this
You haven't made ANY argument and certainly not a rational one.Yes indeed, not nearly as mature and rational as the other side of the argument in all this
It defies logic to say that Mourinho’s reign wasn’t successful? Ok then
No, that's moronic. It defies logic to claim Mourinho was a spectacular failure whilst supporting a guy doing as Ole is after 13 months. 37% win-rate, he could only dream of having a year with 65% like Mourinho. I mean, feck me, you'd probably be delighted with 50% next season I'd wager.
You're not a moron are you? So stop acting like one.
Clearly you don't have a response to what I posted so decided to swerve right and judge on a different timeframe. How many players did Klopp before his first full season where he got Liverpool playing terrific attacking football and to the CL final? How many players in Rodgers add before this excellent season? Ole has spent 150 million and done appallingly. Excuses excuses excuses.
Dealt a bad hand, needs time and money, loves the club etc
You cannot even start to compare the two. Just look foolish.
Also, won the Deadwood Removal Trophy. Only second to the CL round these parts.
In his first full season in charge in 2001–02, Klopp guided Mainz to finish 4th in the league as he implemented his favoured pressing and counter-pressing tactics, narrowly missing promotion. Mainz again finished 4th in 2002–03, denied promotion again on the final day on goal difference. After two seasons of disappointment, Klopp led Mainz to a third place finish in the 2003–04 season, securing promotion to the Bundesliga for the first time in the club's history.[31]
Despite having the smallest budget and the smallest stadium in the league, Mainz finished 11th in their first top-flight season in 2004–05. Klopp's side finished 11th again in 2005–06 as well as securing qualification for the 2005–06 UEFA Cup, although they were knocked out in the first round by eventual champions Sevilla.[30] At the end of the 2006–07 season, Mainz 05 were relegated, but Klopp chose to remain with the club.[32] However, unable to achieve promotion the next year, Klopp resigned at the end of the 2007–08 season.[33] He finished with a record of 109 wins, 78 draws and 83 losses.[34]
Sounds similar to Ole's cardiff spell in fairness, can defo undertstand why you brought it up @GazTheLegend
But isn't it also safe to say that this is the worst United squad in the last 30 years as well. I think it's also safe to assume Mourinho would've been just as bad with a much dire football to watch and a toxic dressing room
Mourinho was a spectacular failure regardless. You’re the moron if you think any different, all the more considering the state of the club when he left. But I’m sure you’ve forgotten all about that.
Yeah, so obviously anyone who has been relegated is going to turn into the best manager in the world. Fergie was sacked from St Mirren as well, so obiviously anyone who's been sacked is going to become the greatest manager of all time. Ole has been a manager for 10 years and no one rates him at the top level. He got his dream job at Man Utd and we have our worst season in 30 years results wise. He's not a succes.
People forget that we actually pay Sanchez still and that he is not gone yet.
Lukaku we badly miss and Herrera too.
He sold Darmian so let's hail him as a genious for that!
I will be out on the streets celebrating if we win a League Cup and the EL and the 2nd place in the PL. Even without 2nd place if we win the EL and a Cup I will hold up my hands and say I was wrong.
The debate is over, you cannot go into next season with Ole as manager, will have lost players by then and no potential signings will take club seriously.
I expect him to survive as will be cheaper to sack him at end of season and most likely successor (Poch) will cost less in compensation.
Anyone with no bias can see how this ends and I doubt there are few of any Utd fans who believe it turns around now.
We're in a worse state now, no matter how much Ole's disciples might trying distorting the truth. We're a fecking mess beyond belief.
This is Ole's squad. If it's worse than when he took over (and that is certainly arguable) then it's on Ole.
Until there's any will for genuine change just keep him, Ole will always be a legend, and who knows he might be the one to finally slay the beast that is Woodward, and maybe even the Glazers.
@Zen86 would too and he'd be claiming Ole the second coming of Sir Alex. He knows it, I know it, you know it.
Anyone Ole in at this point is just a troll.
Agreed, a lot of WUM'in on here.
Most fans from other teams love him at the moment.
Anyone who wants him to stay needs the head testing. They can jog on to Molde with him.
Can people not want him to stay for reasons other than him been good enough? Or are they 'trolls' too?
We 'could' be on the cusp of some sort of proper movement against the real villains at the club, sacking Ole now will only dampen this down, and brush all the crap under carpet once again, until next time of course.
We 'could' be on the cusp of some sort of proper movement against the real villains at the club, sacking Ole now will only dampen this down, and brush all the crap under carpet once again, until next time of course.
I don't think Molde will take him, they're doing better without him.
If not, just imagine how much their phone numbers would be worth, as a sucker list.
The opposite surely?
Trimming the squad, getting rid of deadwood & mercenaries, going back to our youth... all these things are the drum Ole beats and helps sweep lots under the carpet, certainly more than Mourinho for sure, who demanded and expected. Ole is just happy to be here.
Nah, my standards haven’t lowered as much as yours obviously
We’re a mess yes, but at least we’re a crap team full of youth and inexperience, as opposed to before when we were a crap team full of expensive wasters. Sadly I don’t see anything changing until the ownership sort themselves out, or go.
Nah, my standards haven’t lowered as much as yours obviously
Yet you're happy to go with a manager and his 37% win-rate. Who has the lower standards here?
So if Ole wins the EL this year and next season finishes 2nd with a 65% win rate you'll be on here after a slow start to the following year calling him a spectacular failure?
I mean, don't get me wrong, I've made no secret that I think Mourinho, LVG both ultimately failed here. The spectacular failures so far though are Moyes and OSG, how there is any question about this, well there simply isn't.
I think everyone wants new owners who will exile Ed to the money making side of things, and appoint an experienced DOF. Say that miracle happens tomorrow, guess what?
We've still got a shite manager.
We've still got a shite manager.
It's crazy looking at it now. I used to praise Ole for clearing deadwood and making good signings but sitting back and looking at things carefully he did neither of these things well and in a very naive manner.
Look at the deadwood he cleared
Herrera - Arguably our most consistent midfielder last season
Lukaku - Our only proven goalscorer and now challenging for golden boot in Italy
Smalling - Our best defender and currently one of the best defenders in Italy
Sanchez - No longer in the club but we are still paying his salary so he's still kind of there.
Damian - Absolute deadwood. Completely forgot he existed until he was sold
Young - Ole wanted him to stay
Looking at this should Ole even be praised for clearing deadwood. The most obvious ones Jones, Bailey, Lingard, Pereira, Mata, Matic and Rojo are still there.
Now look at his players he bought and try to fix them to his style of play. Ole plays a highline yet he insisted on signing a slow 80m defender to pair with another slow defender which is not suitable for a highline. Ole's full backs join in the attack and yet he insisted on signing AWB who is very limited in attack. Why sign James and play him out of position as a right winger?
So looking at this, some of the deadwood he cleared are questionable and his three signings are not suited to his style of play. I think this is one aspect apart from Ole's tactics that people haven't carefully looked at
Look at the deadwood he cleared
Herrera - Arguably our most consistent midfielder last season
Lukaku - Our only proven goalscorer and now challenging for golden boot in Italy
Smalling - Our best defender and currently one of the best defenders in Italy
Sanchez - No longer in the club but we are still paying his salary so he's still kind of there.
Damian - Absolute deadwood. Completely forgot he existed until he was sold
Young - Ole wanted him to stay
Looking at this should Ole even be praised for clearing deadwood. The most obvious ones Jones, Bailey, Lingard, Pereira, Mata, Matic and Rojo are still there.
Now look at his players he bought and try to fix them to his style of play. Ole plays a highline yet he insisted on signing a slow 80m defender to pair with another slow defender which is not suitable for a highline. Ole's full backs join in the attack and yet he insisted on signing AWB who is very limited in attack. Why sign James and play him out of position as a right winger?
So looking at this, some of the deadwood he cleared are questionable and his three signings are not suited to his style of play. I think this is one aspect apart from Ole's tactics that people haven't carefully looked at
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You'd want to keep a player like Lukaku for 1 year after the season he's had?
And the season he's having and the season we're having suggest I'm correct.
I'm not claiming he was the long term solution but he's certainly better than what we have at the moment. Don't claim Rashford has filled his role because they occupy different positions.
Going into the season with the inconsistent Martial and an unproven youngster was negligent and each game that passes where we struggle to score this decision looks increasingly stupid.
Yet you're happy to go with a manager and his 37% win-rate. Who has the lower standards here?
So if Ole wins the EL this year and next season finishes 2nd with a 65% win rate you'll be on here after a slow start to the following year calling him a spectacular failure?
I mean, don't get me wrong, I've made no secret that I think Mourinho, LVG both ultimately failed here. The spectacular failures so far though are Moyes and OSG, how there is any question about this, well there simply isn't.
If he spunks the kind of money and plays the kind of football Mourinho did, I surely will be calling him a spectacular failure as well. And calling his final year a “slow start” is understating it slightly. The guy fell apart before the season even started.
I said in another thread yesterday that I have changed to the Ole out camp but I still feel that he has the club in as good a position as we could reasonably expect when you look at the number of players sold/released and the injuries we have suffered this season. Maybe a great manager could squeeze a little more out of the squad but I doubt it as things stand.
We clearly are not going to be buying anyone in this window and the Glazers and Ed will hide behind Ole as we play out the remaining fixtures before a summer in which major surgery will be required. We are certain to lose players like Matic and Rojo and there is a very good chance Pogba is sold. We can probably say goodbye to Lingard and Jones if we can find anyone daft enough to buy them also.
For this reason I don't want a knee jerk sacking of Ole mid season, not only is he a legend and a generally decent man but he was also given an impossible task by an inept hierarchy. This does not take away from the fact that he is not the man to lead us back to the top but he deserves to go out with some dignity. I would personally prefer an exit at the end of the season with Ole moving into a club ambassador role if he wants it and a fresh approach with a new manager hired hand in hand with a Director of Football who share a unified vision. This will only work if the board is willing to make available significant transfer funds and hand over any money raised from player sales such as Pogba as the clearing out of the deadwood has left us not only lacking stars but a whole host of squad options just to manage a Premier League season. Sadly I doubt anything of the sort will happen and the slide will continue regardless of who is in the dugout.
We clearly are not going to be buying anyone in this window and the Glazers and Ed will hide behind Ole as we play out the remaining fixtures before a summer in which major surgery will be required. We are certain to lose players like Matic and Rojo and there is a very good chance Pogba is sold. We can probably say goodbye to Lingard and Jones if we can find anyone daft enough to buy them also.
For this reason I don't want a knee jerk sacking of Ole mid season, not only is he a legend and a generally decent man but he was also given an impossible task by an inept hierarchy. This does not take away from the fact that he is not the man to lead us back to the top but he deserves to go out with some dignity. I would personally prefer an exit at the end of the season with Ole moving into a club ambassador role if he wants it and a fresh approach with a new manager hired hand in hand with a Director of Football who share a unified vision. This will only work if the board is willing to make available significant transfer funds and hand over any money raised from player sales such as Pogba as the clearing out of the deadwood has left us not only lacking stars but a whole host of squad options just to manage a Premier League season. Sadly I doubt anything of the sort will happen and the slide will continue regardless of who is in the dugout.
I know, and he still had a better win rate that year than Ole this season
We’re still fixing the mess he left, and will be for some time.
Nothing says 'fixing the mess' like making the team worse.
But it sweeps nothing under the carpet if he does it badly, or more fairly isn't given the backing to do it well even if he did have the ability.
Are you wanting Ole to do a Jose and start moaning that we are doing things wrong, not getting the backing, etc? Well Jose was hated by most for doing that, and then gone quick as a flash, and now look at us, we are worse.
Fans aren't stupid they know it's not really Ole's fault, and we are starting to see the attention turning where it should be doing finally, so to me it makes sense for this to continue now to see if we get anywhere with it, rather than just sacking him and hoping things will be different this time.
Perhaps Ole is even in on it all, which is why he won't do the obvious thing and just walk away, rather than seeing himself getting tainted with all this , (I admit this bit sounds far fetched).
You’re right, we should have persevered with Sanchez, Lukaku and the rest, and the miserable pragmatic football we had made our own. We had some solid foundations right there.
Indeed. What possible benefit could we have gained from having Lukaku right now.
Not his first touch or effort, that’s for sure.
Certainly not his goals, either, right?