The “Ole In” Brigade

AndyMUFC said:
The general point about people comparing the first few years of the Fergie era always gets lost by people for me. I don't think the people that say it are ever trying to say that that is going to happen again, it's more a point that you can't always judge a manager at the start.

People also talk about Fergie earning time due to his spell at Aberdeen blah blah blah. It's all hindsight bollocks. If this forum existed back then without the knowledge of what was to come, I bet you very few people would be saying that.

Of the problems at the club, the board and the quality of the squad are bigger problems than the manager so regardless of whether Ole is here for the long term or not, I wouldn't exactly expect much in the near future.
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It’s only lost on those trying to say that giving a proven rubbish manager time could get you results.
Giving a genius manager who has proven his genius at earlier clubs AND his current club could/should get you results. There are plenty of examples of this.
So @AndyMUFC, give me just one example of manager with a decade as poor as Ole’s that has then gone into a club, been awful for 13 months but given time and then suddenly turned into a genius?

Just one example.

2 hours later and it’s as expected, tumbleweed blowing through the thread.
 
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Enigma_87 said:
I'm saying you can't expect the board to give a complete nobody 200-300m pounds just because he's smiling.

He is criticized for how he spent it and choosing not to address certain positions and not to reinforce certain positions.
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Who shouldn’t he have bought and who should he have bought instead?
 
Enigma_87 said:
I've missed the reigning champions and two times EC champions as Liverpool won the domestic title in 77/78.

Even moreso we finished 2nd in an era when teams like Forest and Liverpool were pretty good both domestically and in Europe.

Care to show us how Liverpool's style was much better than some of ours during that time?

Liverpool often finished 7th and 8th during their barren run.
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Sorry but wrong again mate, as Forrest won it 77/78 by seven points, and how am I suppose to show you, as unless sadtube has some vids from the 90's/00's on it, as cant show you style based on league finishes, stats as we both know never tell the whole story of a game. Only thing I could suggest if you have sky sports, look at the season reviews shows and you see they had a better style than we have at the moment after they got shot of that bitter scots man.

ps: won't be able to respond now till tomorrow, as just out of posts sadly.
 
TRUERED89 said:
A bit? 7 bloody years. Would other fan bases from elite clubs accept this? We've all seen mostly success, does that mean we drop standards and become irrelevant like AC Milan? We've already become a top 4 trophy club like Arsenal, what next? A 30 year barren run without a PL like the scouse ?
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While they're not exactly the trophies we wanted, up until recently we were still winning as much or more silverware than the other clubs in this country. I'll take that as our worst period for ages. It's just frustrating to see Liverpool and City as the ones winning all the big things now which is probably what's resulting more uproar in the last year or two.

I think maybe you need to get out of this mentality as much as I should go into it? There's probably a more balanced view than both of us, but I don't think we can necessarily take this approach any more just because "We're Man Utd!" It's gone and it's been gone for a while. My personal opinion on it is that it's going to take an extra-ordinate amount of money to get anywhere close to the glory days again if we aim to do it quickly and even then, I'd bet it would still take longer than a lot of us would hope. We've tried the approach of big name managers and masses of money which didn't work, so I can understand the board not wanting to do it again right away (although I'd argue they need to go first). I'll keep saying it, but we could try multiple managers and spend £200m+ three seasons in a row and I wouldn't be surprised if we're almost no closer than we are now (bar maybe being in the Champion's League most years again). However, I think we can do the latter of being in the Champion's League most years by taking the more laboured and slow approach we are now.

If you look at our club historically, we haven't been one to spend silly money every season. Just look at it and you'll see that the expectations do not meet the reality. 19/20 net spend (so far) = £80m, 18/19 net spend = £47m, 17/18 net spend = £132m, 16/17 net spend = £124m etc. Even our highest outlay (not factoring in players sold) was under £180m, so unless another big name manager comes in we won't even be spending that. I know it isn't all about money, but most of it is. The club aren't waving this magic wand to splash £500m by Summer 2021 or whatever. We are such a big distance away that I'm willing to accept our current method and hope it benefits us more long-term. It may sound defeatist, but I kind of think 'let Liverpool have it' for the moment as it's hard to stay on top once you're there these days.

Odds are if we try another galacticos approach we'll just end up even more of an embarrassment than we are now IMO, but we shall see!
 
Woodward publicly stated that this was a long term rebuild and we're unlikely to compete during this period. He'll have communicated the same to the shareholders and sponsors but believe me, 'not competing' to these people means getting top 4 at any cost and possibly sneaking a cup. They might be tolerant of 5th for two seasons maybe.

What they will not be tolerant of is embarrassment on and off the pitch, and the club being portrayed as losers. They do not want to be associated with The Losers Club.

If Ole finishes around 8-12th this year he's gone. Ed's phone will be on fire and he'll be asked to display how he plans on pleasing the sponsors/stakeholders and raising positivity around the club on and off the field.

Ed will do what he does then. He'll swing the hammer to prove to his investors that he is also intolerant of this.

Now what happens then is a completely different kettle of fish because the imbecile will probably botch a fifth straight appointment.
 
JPRouve said:
The team needs overhaul because he spent that money extremely badly. He didn't need backing, he needed to show why he earned 15m per year and maximize the heavy investments that he demanded in the past 24 months. Do you guys think that the club prints money or extracts oil?
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No I think the owners take the money and line their pockets instead of running the club properly. Come visit OT I will borrow you my season ticket and look around the place is becoming a shit hole. The owners give zero
el3mel said:
If the squad was that shite how did it gave Ole his honeymoon period which landed him the job then?
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Because they all got a rise when Jose went just like Chelsea did when they went on and won the CL after Jose left . Do you believe any of the player listed
el3mel said:
If the squad was that shite how did it gave Ole his honeymoon period which landed him the job then?
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Di Maria's angel said:
It's rather confusing posters like yourself and many others can identify bad players in seconds but can't identify a bad manager.
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I know a poor manager like I know poor players like I can see poor owners and a pish poor Ed Woodward. I've never once said Ole is the Messiah I was totally against him getting the job full-time when he did.

My point which alot in here refuse to listen to is we have not got the correct structures in place above our manager to be successful.

Pep would struggle as United manager because we never go the whole way to support a manager . Pep needed 2 full backs after his 1st season he got 3 that cost something like 130 million .
We spent that on 2 defenders last summer but we never would have if Lukaku wasn't on his way for 70 or whatever he cost .

We can go get Poch or whoever but they will have the same problems the rest have had . Yes Poch might make us a bit better but that's not good enough and to match City and Pool we probably need a summer window spending around 300 million and our owners won't ever do that
 
Tel074 said:
No I think the owners take the money and line their pockets instead of running the club properly. Come visit OT I will borrow you my season ticket and look around the place is becoming a shit hole. The owners give zero


Because they all got a rise when Jose went just like Chelsea did when they went on and won the CL after Jose left . Do you believe any of the player listed




I know a poor manager like I know poor players like I can see poor owners and a pish poor Ed Woodward. I've never once said Ole is the Messiah I was totally against him getting the job full-time when he did.

My point which alot in here refuse to listen to is we have not got the correct structures in place above our manager to be successful.

Pep would struggle as United manager because we never go the whole way to support a manager . Pep needed 2 full backs after his 1st season he got 3 that cost something like 130 million .
We spent that on 2 defenders last summer but we never would have if Lukaku wasn't on his way for 70 or whatever he cost .

We can go get Poch or whoever but they will have the same problems the rest have had . Yes Poch might make us a bit better but that's not good enough and to match City and Pool we probably need a summer window spending around 300 million and our owners won't ever do that
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Except we had already signed those two defenders before we sold Lukaku so how does that work?

We had been playing hardball all summer over his price and until Juve joined the interested clubs there was nothing to indicate we would recoup the 70m we wanted.
 
Tel074 said:
No I think the owners take the money and line their pockets instead of running the club properly. Come visit OT I will borrow you my season ticket and look around the place is becoming a shit hole. The owners give zero
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But that has nothing to do with your point or mine.
 
b82REZ said:
Except we had already signed those two defenders before we sold Lukaku so how does that work?

We had been playing hardball all summer over his price and until Juve joined the interested clubs there was nothing to indicate we would recoup the 70m we wanted.
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Do you really believe United had no idea Lukaku was going to be sold ? Seriously ?
 
Tel074 said:
My point is the club has loads of money but they choose to take most of it out of the club
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But that point is not even close to be true, around 95% of the club's revenue are used for operating expenses. I don't even know why people make points like that when we are talking about a PLC.
 
Tel074 said:
Do you really believe United had no idea Lukaku was going to be sold ? Seriously ?
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They undoubtedly knew about the interest from the Italian teams but we set our price and wouldn't budge. To suggest our transfers were tied to sale of Lukaku is simply not true. Had Inter not offered 70m so late in the window there's a good chance he'd still be here.
 
b82REZ said:
They undoubtedly knew about the interest from the Italian teams but we set our price and wouldn't budge. To suggest our transfers were tied to sale of Lukaku is simply not true. Had Inter not offered 70m so late in the window there's a good chance he'd still be here.
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b82REZ said:
They undoubtedly knew about the interest from the Italian teams but we set our price and wouldn't budge. To suggest our transfers were tied to sale of Lukaku is simply not true. Had Inter not offered 70m so late in the window there's a good chance he'd still be here.
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We signed Maguire 3 days before Lukaku signed for Inter ? This board have very little history of spending huge sums in any one window . For you to try to make out the Inter bid came from no where is niave at best . There was absolutely no chance Lukaku was going to stay and he was always going to Inter
 
Tel074 said:
We signed Maguire 3 days before Lukaku signed for Inter ? This board have very little history of spending huge sums in any one window . For you to try to make out the Inter bid came from no where is niave at best . There was absolutely no chance Lukaku was going to stay and he was always going to Inter
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At no point have I implied the Inter bid came out of nowhere. But until Juve entered the race the fact is they were not willing to meet our asking price.
 
Good point but just looking at the transfer values of cash in and cash out omits a key factor. Herrera was allowed to leave on a free transfer. In today's overinflated transfer market an evaluation of Herrera at 40 million is very conservative. His loss without replacement reduces the net investment by the club by 40 million which means the net investment in players by the club was only 40 million. At best that possibly enough to keep the same relative strength compared to their major rivals. It certainly doesn't represent an effort to rebuild the club.

Herrera's loss without replacement has significantly weakened the club. With Matic's shelf life expired, that left us to start the season with one proven Premier League quality CMF. The only rebuilding that has taken place this season is Ole developing young players such as McTominay, Fred, Williams, Rashford, James, Greenwood, and Martial.

To state the obvious, the squad this year is painfully thin but it was obviously painfully thin last season. When Herrera went down injured, Ole's initial victory march ended with a thud. We had no one available to replace him. The club's executives not only failed to add CMF replacements, they let Herrera go without replacement. The result today is chaos. One proven CMF.
 
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Love to hear from the Ole in brigade after tonight. Yes the team needs investment and that seems to be the main excuse for OGS but how do they explain how we keep dropping points to teams with inferior players?

Everyone knows James is in need of a rest and Greenwood should have started last night. Why can’t he see that?
 
Redo91 said:
Love to hear from the Ole in brigade after tonight. Yes the team needs investment and that seems to be the main excuse for OGS but how do they explain how we keep dropping points to teams with inferior players?

Everyone knows James is in need of a rest and Greenwood should have started last night. Why can’t he see that?
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Do you think another manager will make any difference? Genuine question. We have tried many others with the same results, the club stinks of shithousery.
 
I'm compiling a list of all you fecking whining cnuts that want Ole sacked so when he is sacked and we have the same shit squad with a new manager churning out the same shit results under the same ownership with Woodward at the helm I can chime in here and say, "now what?"

:lol:

I don't even care anymore. Until the owners or Woodward is chucked out, it's all the same. I'll still watch matches but I stopped letting it ruin my day several years ago. I suggest you all do the same. Life is too short to cry over something you can't change.
 
arthurka said:
Do you think another manager will make any difference? Genuine question. We have tried many others with the same results, the club stinks of shithousery.
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Three dinosaurs and one novice (in terms of top level experience); there's some good players here that would do well under an attacking, top level manager.
 
Lets sack our 4th manager and then we can blame the 5th manager for our bad players. Its insane.
The manager isnt responsible for players missing easy goals

Yes exactly. Like the same whiners who come up now with: "Martial isnt a striker, AWB is a waste etc"
 
arthurka said:
Do you think another manager will make any difference? Genuine question. We have tried many others with the same results, the club stinks of shithousery.
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Of course they would. We have tried many others but not the right ones. The board has been too inept to get that right. Just because Moyes, LVG, Jose and OGS haven’t worked out doesn’t mean there isn’t a good fit out there.
 
Redo91 said:
Love to hear from the Ole in brigade after tonight. Yes the team needs investment and that seems to be the main excuse for OGS but how do they explain how we keep dropping points to teams with inferior players?

Everyone knows James is in need of a rest and Greenwood should have started last night. Why can’t he see that?
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Our winger from the championship needs a rest and all we've got is an 18 year old rookie to replace him. Spot the problem (which will still be there if we change manager).
 
peridigm said:
I'm compiling a list of all you fecking whining cnuts that want Ole sacked so when he is sacked and we have the same shit squad with a new manager churning out the same shit results under the same ownership with Woodward at the helm I can chime in here and say, "now what?"

:lol:

I don't even care anymore. Until the owners or Woodward is chucked out, it's all the same. I'll still watch matches but I stopped letting it ruin my day several years ago. I suggest you all do the same. Life is too short to cry over something you can't change.
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spot on. I got to the point under Moyes where I just shrugged my shoulders. Meh.

LVG brought new hope and whilst he had a dull philosophy you could actually see what he was coaching

Mourinho brought hope as a serial winner

OGS brings me no hope whatsoever. And I’m back shrugging my shoulders. Meh
 
United58 said:
Three dinosaurs and one novice (in terms of top level experience); there's some good players here that would do well under an attacking, top level manager.
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Which players?
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Leftback99 said:
Our winger from the championship needs a rest and all we've got is an 18 year old rookie to replace him. Spot the problem (which will still be there if we change manager).
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But again with the players on offer we should be winning games like this. The lack of depth doesn’t explain tonight.
 
arthurka said:
Do you think another manager will make any difference? Genuine question. We have tried many others with the same results, the club stinks of shithousery.
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Well considering the last 2 managers did absolutely miles better than this whilst still being not right for United, I'd gonna have to go with yes.

Moyes PL win-rate: 51%
LVG PL win-rate: 51%
Mourinho PL win-rate: 54% (including the part season the fecker wanted the sack)
Ole PL win-rate: 37% :eek: :eek:

fecking stupid question @arthurka. Another making out as though Ole is "only doing as bad as the others", not he aint, he's absolutely awful.
 
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It’s
Redo91 said:
Of course they would. We have tried many others but not the right ones. The board has been too inept to get that right. Just because Moyes, LVG, Jose and OGS haven’t worked out doesn’t mean there isn’t a good fit out there.
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In comparison to Ole those managers did work out, better managers did a better job. This is worst performing team for 30 years, man presiding over it is worst manager.

Whoever is Utd manager is handicapped because the club is a joke but persisting with Ole is total madness, can’t expect a mid table Norwegian a manager (whose team got better since he left) to be any benefit to the club.
 
arthurka said:
Do you think another manager will make any difference? Genuine question. We have tried many others with the same results, the club stinks of shithousery.
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A more talented manager would improve us, yes. Not in the sense of getting United back to where they should be (not under Woodward) but better than the current situation where we lose to Burnley at home and are 30 points off the top in January. Just like signing a quality player would improve us, even though he’d be playing under the limitations imposed by having a 3rd rate manager.
 
Anyone who’s Ole in can feck right off as far as I’m concerned.
 
Roboc7 said:
In comparison to Ole those managers did work out, better managers did a better job.
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Moyes PL win-rate: 51%
LVG PL win-rate: 51%
Mourinho PL win-rate: 54% (including the part season the fecker wanted the sack)
Ole PL win-rate: 37% :eek: :eek:

Needed repeating to shut this bollox up. Oh, and for the record, all these guys had the same board. Ole has Wolves and Chelsea next up, he'll be at 34% by mid-Feb and Ole-in will still back him to the hilt, something they absolutely would not do if he was David Moyes or Neil Warnock.
 
Redo91 said:
But again with the players on offer we should be winning games like this. The lack of depth doesn’t explain tonight.
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Tonight wasn't good enough. But then there's no excuses for Martial and Mata missing the chances they did.
 
Sadly not good enough. Not even close. Has one game plan and it’s more suited to a bottom half club or the 90s where teams used to play each other as opposed to modern football where teams are well coached in defensive blocks.
 
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