The “Ole In” Brigade

He finished 11th. Can you imagine the outcry off a lot on here if we finished 11th?
Yes, people were happy, we finally got a manager with quality, dominated the Scottish league with a small team, won 2 European trophies with that same small team. We knew we had something special and we knew he is a risk worthy taking. It paid off.
Tell me, why is Ole our manager?
 
I don't get the revisionism about LVG here. Feels like I was watching a different team back then. He made me lose interest in watching United for several games in a row, never ever I have reached this stage even under Moyes. His signings were crap, football played was dogshite and insomnia curing, results were terrible. Bar the Fa Cup win, Rashford and Martial, and few good games in his first season, his period here was total and an absolute failure.

His track record of signings didn't indicate anything would have been solved by giving him an additional year. We regressed massively in his second after an initial OK season so there're more chances we would have regressed even more with an additional year.
 
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Agree @el3mel, feels like people have very short memories. We had 3-4 games but apart from that it was mostly awful.
 
Yes, people were happy, we finally got a manager with quality, dominated the Scottish league with a small team, won 2 European trophies with that same small team. We knew we had something special and we knew he is a risk worthy taking. It paid off.
Tell me, why is Ole our manager?

The real reason - Jose was a prick ;)
 
I don't think Ole is worse than Moyes in anything. So that leaves only two managers. LvG is obviously very well-respected manager, but he was a horrible fit for us and we were going nowhere. With Ole there's at least slight chance for improvement. If Woodward buys him decent midfield soon enough and Ole starts consistently winning, all of those Ole Out people will evaporate in thin air.

How on earth do you reach that conclusion? At the end of the day we all want what's best for the club. Some may be overly critical of Ole while some are overly optimistic. There's no right answer here. By your logic if Ole starts winning and the out crowd all dissappear, what happens if Ole goes on a losing streak and ends up sacked? Will the in crowd all dissappear? Of course thy won't.

It's these sort of posts that make these threads toxic. Ole fc or Manchester United fc you choose because you can't have both.
 
How on earth do you reach that conclusion? At the end of the day we all want what's best for the club. Some may be overly critical of Ole while some are overly optimistic. There's no right answer here. By your logic if Ole starts winning and the out crowd all dissappear, what happens if Ole goes on a losing streak and ends up sacked? Will the in crowd all dissappear? Of course thy won't.

It's these sort of posts that make these threads toxic. Ole fc or Manchester United fc you choose because you can't have both.

Stop talking sense.
 
How on earth do you reach that conclusion? At the end of the day we all want what's best for the club. Some may be overly critical of Ole while some are overly optimistic. There's no right answer here. By your logic if Ole starts winning and the out crowd all dissappear, what happens if Ole goes on a losing streak and ends up sacked? Will the in crowd all dissappear? Of course thy won't.

It's these sort of posts that make these threads toxic. Ole fc or Manchester United fc you choose because you can't have both.

Depends on the losing streak, but if it is significant - of course everybody will be against him. What do you think - he has some kind of carte blanche of untouchability? For crying-out loud, his head is demanded every time he loses even a single game! He is on a pretty thin ice. Clearly he bought himself more time by winning City and Spurs games. If he loses enough games he will be sacked, and none of "he didn't have squad" or "he was not supported enough" arguments will save him.

Of course that is the case! The only question is the amount of patience he's granted but it is definitely not endless. I have no idea why you think that either fans, or even the club will forgive him anything. That is clearly not the case.

It's these sort of posts that make these threads toxic. Ole fc or Manchester United fc you choose because you can't have both.

What does this even mean? You are just making things up now. Ole is here to help rebuild the club. He may succeed or fail but there is no "Ole FC" or a hidden agenda. That is silly. I don't know how you can even question guy's loyalty or sincerity. Maybe you can question if he has what it takes, but everything you see shows how much he cares.
 
We had a lot of the ball under LvG. The only problem was that we did nothing with the ball, hence it got very boring and tedious (yes even for me). But I felt that the foundations of a possession based team were in process of being built. There were some issues to be fixed as nothing is perfect but we never gave him the chance.

Quite frankly, the zombie football issue has plagued LvG, Mourinho and Solskjaer. It is a problem that transcends managers and we haven't solved it by sacking the manager.
 
He finished 11th. Can you imagine the outcry off a lot on here if we finished 11th?

He finished 11th after United were 21st and in the relegation zone, so he was congratulated for vast improvement. It's a very poor comparison.
 
LVG became boring as hell later on. But it is trying to spin that he was worse than Ole. He actually won something the FA Cup and got us in 4th and 5th while winning the FA Cup. Ole is not boring but pathetic as hell. LVG though boring won more than Ole has so far.
 
Whoever jumped on "Ole in" bandwagon after that PSG game has no right to tutor anyone about patience.

Bunch of knee jerkers
 
Whoever jumped on "Ole in" bandwagon after that PSG game has no right to tutor anyone about patience.

Bunch of knee jerkers
You are right but as fans at that moment in time it was hard not to. Shame our board knee jerked it too and abandoned their promises of a thourough search until the end of the seson and gave him the perm role. A massive mistake giving it to him without really knowing how he and the team would respond to a bad run. Sadly enough it didn't take long to find out and the answer was terrible. If they had stuck to their original plan there is no way in hell they would have given it to him.
 
We are in a process of replacing these players but they are still on the payroll and provide something to the squad. Until they are replaced with players who provide more then you have to use what you have got.

I get what youre saying, but why do we have to play right now, players who offer more. We could play players who we dont know whether they will or wont offer more (basically the youth) cos we know what were getting with the players who arent really contributing.
 
I'm a big Ole In fan, but I have to acknowledge that part of it is that is because he is the lovable legend. Just a post ago I gave the stats that he is out performing Klopp and Poch after each had one year in charge and noted that he's building, it's a project.

However the game against Arsenal has got me wondering. Luke Shaw was dreadful, he passes the ball and stands still 3 yards away from the player he passed to. and watches .Literally does nothing. Has he never heard of pass and go ? Of course he has, he was England's best young defender - so why does he now play like a 6 year old ?

With just 5 minutes left AWB did the same thing, passed and stood next to the person he passed to. They were hemmed in but acres of space in front and to the right to run and draw a defender and he just stood there. It was incredible. After a while he realized he needed to do something so made a very half hearted run and we lost the ball.

These people know how to play basic football.

I can't believe that the coaches tell them to pass and stand still.

So, the only alternative I can find is that they don't care - and that comes down to something being wrong with the manager - and that bothers me.
 
To be honest i'm not sure why anyone kneejerked after the PSG game, i'll admit it was hard not to get caught in the moment but the reality is the signs were there during that game itself really. We scored 3 goals yes.. one was a penalty, one was a goalkeeping howler from Buffon and the other was a complete howler of a backpass from their defender straight to Lukaku, everyone talks like we were completely dominated them and showed what the future would look like under Solksjaer. The actual reality is that we were supremely lucky to go through and we didn't play particularly well doing it either, so I guess in a way it did show what the future would look like.

Everyone was just caught up in the moment without looking at how and why we actually won.
 
Shame our board knee jerked it too and abandoned their promises of a thourough search until the end of the seson and gave him the perm role.

You are kidding, right? Have you even seen who our board is?
  • Edward Woodward – Glorified banker
  • Joel Glazer, Kevin Glazer, Bryan Glazer, Darcie Glazer Kassewitz, Ed Glazer - papa Glazer's clueless offsprings
  • Richard Arnold – sponsorships salesman
  • Cliff Baty – Chief Financial Officer
  • Robert Leitão – Banker from Rothschild & Co
  • Man Utd Sawhney – Sporting goods and media salesman in Singapore
  • John Hooks – Luxury fashion executive

Do I need to even comment about this "board" of 12 people none of whom have any clue about football? I guarantee you at least 3/4 of them probably don't even know what an "offside" means. Yeah, they are gonna conduct a thorough search of a manager… Pfft
 
2020: Poch is the one. I just know it. 2021: Rogers is REALLY the one. I'm sure of it. 2022: We finally got Pep. I always knew that he was THE KEY to us getting back on track just like King Eddie says. 2023,............
Or

2050: We can't judge Ole until he signs 3 Balon Dor winners in one summer. These aren't even really his players. And no other manager has to deal with injuries which is an alien concept in the footballing world. Besides he's been making invisible progress. Those who haven't allocated 50 points in the skill tree to the 'blind patience' ability just can't see it. These things take time.
 
If you asked any of the EPL fans if they'd prefer their manager or Ole. 19 would say their own manager or someone else. That alone should tell you the story.

Let's be real the only reason he has a job is because he played here. He over-performed in a small sample size with his two biggest wins being games we should have lost but got incredibly lucky. Nepotism & idiotic people in charge is the only reason we are at this point.

As unqualified as he is for the job, the sadder part are the unqualified people who have made bad decisions after another hiring wrong managers & buying wrong players. DOF in complete charge of football operations or I don't care who we hire it won't end up well. Preferably with Poch as he's the best available.
 
The last time the most experienced football god SAF made a decision, it was to give moyes the managerial job.

I bet he had something to do with naming ole, i doubt woodward even remembers ole.

Between saf and the romantics I'd prefer the ruthless businessman
 
The revisonisim on here regarding LvG is actually insane. He made watching us a total and utter chore.
That's just how you see football. Don't project that as fact. I enjoyed LVG's football out of all our recent managers including SAF's last years. Acknowledge that there are different ways of looking at football. I liked that we could control the game, the movement, the triangles etc. You like to see action, tackles, pace etc.
 
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This. I don't know how anybody cannot see how threadbare this midfield is.

It's frankly obtuse and narrow minded to believe Ole was happy to ignore the midfield. Herrera wanted crazy wages for his age and that was exactly part of the problem we had with the poor club strategy of rewarding older players, he wanted out so we let him go.

Fellaini was on the verge of leaving for a while and needed to go, nobody complained when he finally left.

Now to say Ole was happy for the two to leave and not bother replacing them is complete nonsense. Say what you want about Ole but he is not an idiot and knows how competitive and grueling this league is. He would never have been happy with the midfield regardless of what he says when he is towing the company line in interviews.

It's clear as day when you look at our net spend in the summer that we should have had more to spend in Midfield. I mean we are supposed to be the biggest club in the world and one of the richest.

Now it's not all about buying players, I understand that, but compare our net spend in the summer to that of another club giant in Real Madrid, who have a supposedly 'established manager' - as I've pointed out before the difference is night and day.

Madrid show what it takes to complete a rebuild a lot quicker, not everything but a hell of a lot is gained through recruitment and the speed at which a rebuild takes place is almost entirely dependent on it, unless you have Klopp as your manager who turns water into wine.

I mean the first thing Pep does at a new club is spend money like it's going out of fashion.

How people thought that Ole was going to totally transform us and correct 5 years of woeful player recruitment and mismanagement is beyond me, especially when you factor in the net spend in the summer and our injuries to key players.

I agree with almost everything you said except one thing.

Given the dire state of our midfiled in pre season and we had like 6 CB at that moment why the feck we did spend £80 m on a CB and not a single midfielder ?

That's a terrible mistake imo. And it's not hindsight, half the caf including me was crying for a new midfielder in the summer.
 
It's better to give Ole the rest of the season at least. People talk like we're dangling in 12th place when we're 5th. Even though 5th shouldn't be where we aim for, it is very befitting of this current squad. Sacking Ole right now will be very reactive and they are alot of reasonable 'excuses' I can give him.

The first thing I want to ask is what your expectations are really from this current squad. First place? Fourth place? Because mine is sixth place. We're not better than City Liverpool and Leceister(yes leceister) clearly. Our squad is not better than Chelsea or Tottenham either. In hindsight it will sound ridiculous that we're not better than some of them but please take time to compare our squad to those 5 teams I mentioned and their bench and you will see what I'm talking about.

Also what kind of style of play do you honestly expect with this squad asides from counter attack majorly. We have Jesse fecking Lingard as our AM, Mcctominay and Fred as our CMs, two defensive full backs and three pacy forwards. What exactly do you expect these set of players with their abilities majorly akin to counter to produce other than majorly counter attacks

We also play more sides in the team that park the bus rather than attack. And no matter how much space an attacker creates against such teams it will hardly be exploited without a creative midfielder. Van Persie said he counted about 12 runs Rashford made against Arsenal but nobody could pick him out. I've seen Martial raising his hand when he's free but Lingard has no vision to see him. Pogba has been injured and therefore we have not one single creative player in the team. All the top 6 sides have 1 or more. We have had none through out the season.

Another excuse is the fact that we have a young squad. There's really nothing I can say here other than young players are bound to be inconsistent. In some matches we look like we're out for blood and in the next we look very unmotivated. Compare Rashford against Tottenham to Rashford against Arsenal. There is are hardly any leaders in this team.

My last excuse is our injuries. Pogba is out with and there is no creativity in the team. We saw what he could do when he came on for a few minutes. Martial was out for a while and we couldn't score more than a goal through out that period. It changed when he came back. Mcctominay is injured now, a vital player in this team. We also have lack any quality squad depth that can make any kind of impact whatsoever asides from an 18 year old.

There is a great imbalance in this squad that can only be solved by a manager that is willing to be patient and wait for the right players rather than rush things. A manager that sees this as a gradual process. Ole so far has shown such features and he has us at 5th considering all the excuses I gave him. Sacking right now will just be reactionary. He deserves at least the end of the season then we can evaluate if he has shown signs that he is the one that can take us forward or whether our future would be better in the hands of another manager
 
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That's just how you see football. Don't project that as fact. I enjoyed LVG's football out of all our recent managers including SAF's last years. Acknowledge that there are different ways of looking at football. I liked that we could control the game, the movement, the triangles etc. You like to see action, tackles, pace etc.
When you're the only person in the room with your opinion, chances are you're wrong.
 
it’s the default. If SAF or Klopp had been sacked BS that people make. How about this if Liverpool didn’t sack Hodgson after 6 months would they have become CL winners and league contenders much sooner?
Some people fail to grasp that good managers can provide the direction pretty quickly, with Klopp it was clear straight away that a lot of teams could not handle their style only for them to draw/lose due to stupid mistakes by Karius/Mingnolet/Lovren/Moreno etc. when they were right on top of other teams. With Ole we're losing games deservedly to most bottom teams after a year in charge. I'm really not sure how people are missing this by bringing up Pep/Klopp etc. to the conversation.
 
We've given all four managers more time than they deserved. Each and every one of them was a sunken ship long before we actually sacked them. Moyes and LvG should've been gone by Christmas in those seasons, Ole should've been gone by September/October and Mourinho should have been gone the moment he started falling out with everyone. We have been incredibly patient, no other big club would've given those managers the time of day we have.

Ole has had more than enough time to imprint some sort of style of play, to improve results, to show what he's capable of, and has, quite frankly, failed on every front.

plus, a top-class manager earns the right to more time based on what they have achieved previously and their record of building great sides when given time to do so. You think if we hired someone as good as Klopp that we should expect him to immediately chase titles and sack him without letting him build a team? Don't be so ridiculous. Everyone compares Ole to SAF but seems to forget the fact that SAF had done wonders at Aberdeen which earned him patience here. Ole has done the square root of sweet feck all in his career so far to earn more time than we've already given him.
Spot on. Agree with every single word here.
 
That's just how you see football. Don't project that as fact. I enjoyed LVG's football out of all our recent managers including SAF's last years. Acknowledge that there are different ways of looking at football. I liked that we could control the game, the movement, the triangles etc. You like to see action, tackles, pace etc.

Incredible stuff. I have seen it all I guess.
 
LVG's football was literally sleep inducing most of the time, but you could clearly see what he was trying to do, and with a Pogba in that side and a bit more quality it would be way more successful than whatever it is Ole is trying to do.
 
2 midfielders this window and Ole can push for top 4.
No manager in world football would get much more out of the players we currently have available for selection. If Klopp tried to play his style with this group we would concede about 6 goals a game.
Ole is certainly not the big problem here - I think he’s doing ok given how poor this squad is. I don’t buy that he signed off about the lack of signings - no manager turns down the opportunity to get new players.
For the last 3 managers I, like many others, have said many times it’s not just the manager but lack of quality in the squad. People judge the squad based on fees paid but the reality is they are worth much, much less. Changing Ole now without backing him more will just set us back further. We are currently 5th so forget about him getting sacked for the foreseeable future. Support the club and vent your anger towards Woodward and the Glazers. Ole can and will get us back into a top 4 side if he’s backed properly, I’m sure of it. That’s the first target and he’s currently on course.
 
However the game against Arsenal has got me wondering. Luke Shaw was dreadful, he passes the ball and stands still 3 yards away from the player he passed to. and watches .Literally does nothing. Has he never heard of pass and go ? Of course he has, he was England's best young defender - so why does he now play like a 6 year old ?

With just 5 minutes left AWB did the same thing, passed and stood next to the person he passed to. They were hemmed in but acres of space in front and to the right to run and draw a defender and he just stood there. It was incredible. After a while he realized he needed to do something so made a very half hearted run and we lost the ball.

These people know how to play basic football.

I can't believe that the coaches tell them to pass and stand still.
Personally, I'd put that down to the coaching. It's become a trend in Shaw's game that either the coaching staff are fine with or they are not doing much about it, otherwise he would have been dropped.

Even with AWB, while his natural attacking instincts are not high, those type of runs should be drilled into him by the coaching staff. If you don't drill particular movements into players then they will just revert to what they're used to/most comfortable and with Shaw and AWB it will offer little from an attacking perspective.
 
2 midfielders this window and Ole can push for top 4.
No manager in world football would get much more out of the players we currently have available for selection. If Klopp tried to play his style with this group we would concede about 6 goals a game.
Ole is certainly not the big problem here - I think he’s doing ok given how poor this squad is. I don’t buy that he signed off about the lack of signings - no manager turns down the opportunity to get new players.
For the last 3 managers I, like many others, have said many times it’s not just the manager but lack of quality in the squad. People judge the squad based on fees paid but the reality is they are worth much, much less. Changing Ole now without backing him more will just set us back further. We are currently 5th so forget about him getting sacked for the foreseeable future. Support the club and vent your anger towards Woodward and the Glazers. Ole can and will get us back into a top 4 side if he’s backed properly, I’m sure of it. That’s the first target and he’s currently on course.

Lads. Close the thread. Hes sure of it.
 
If Ole gets all the players he wants and implements his philosophy will we win anything with him? That is the main question. In the PL only Leicester has won using Ole's methods while no recent CL team has won with Ole's methods.
I don't see the point of continuing with this and the stupidity of Woodward to get sold by a philosophy that barely gets you top 4 in the long run is damning.
 
When you're the only person in the room with your opinion, chances are you're wrong.
An opinion cannot be wrong, it's subjective, that's why it's called an opinion and not fact. You cannot say someone he/she is wrong to have liked watching certain type of football. Go check that up.
 
An opinion cannot be wrong, it's subjective, that's why it's called an opinion and not fact. You cannot say someone he/she is wrong to have liked watching certain type of football. Go check that up.
OK, so if my opinion is that the earth is flat, that vaccines are bad for you, that Trump is a good man, the Brexit is great for the UK, that genocide is a good thing... then you can't say I'm wrong, because it's an opinion, and opinions are never wrong.
 
OK, so if my opinion is that the earth is flat, that vaccines are bad for you, that Trump is a good man, the Brexit is great for the UK, that genocide is a good thing... then you can't say I'm wrong, because it's an opinion, and opinions are never wrong.
What an atrocious post. Why are you confusing facts with opinions. Earth is demonstrably not flat. Vaccines protect your from getting infections later in life. Genocide causes unnecessary suffering of humans. With Brexit and Trump people can have opinions because you cannot demonstrate its good or bad yet.

How can you demonstrate to me that LVG's football is boring, it's my preference. Same way can you tell a homosexual person that their own gender is not attractive? That would be intolerance. If you cannot demonstrate, then people are entitled to their opinion. Keep in mind that people's opinions can change over time.
 
What an atrocious post. Why are you confusing facts with opinions. Earth is demonstrably not flat. Vaccines protect your from getting infections later in life. Genocide causes unnecessary suffering of humans. With Brexit and Trump people can have opinions because you cannot demonstrate its good or bad yet.

How can you demonstrate to me that LVG's football is boring, it's my preference. Same way can you tell a homosexual person that their own gender is not attractive? That would be intolerance. If you cannot demonstrate, then people are entitled to their opinion. Keep in mind that people's opinions can change over time.
The point is that stating your opinion and saying "hey, look, it's just my opinion, you can't actually say it's wrong!" is a really lazy argument in general. If you're in the extreme minority of people who have your opinion then there's a strong chance it's wrong.
 
How can you demonstrate to me that LVG's football is boring, it's my preference.

Personally I'd demonstrate it by the number of times that I actually dozed off for 20 minutes whilst watching United, awoke to discover that we still hadn't taken a shot at goal...Zzzz, Zzzz, Zzzz..:boring:
 
He finished 11th after United were 21st and in the relegation zone, so he was congratulated for vast improvement. It's a very poor comparison.
I believe the point here is not really what Ferguson did in his first season alone, but what he did in his first seasons in general.

Ferguson took over a side which had placed either 3rd or 4th the five seasons prior to him taking over. Yes, they were in 21st place when he took over, which is why he can not be criticized for only achieving 11th in his first season. But he then proceeded to finish 2nd, 11th, 13th and 6th before finally winning the league in his fifth full season.

In other words, in his second full season, he took a team that had been 2nd the year before, and worse than 4th only one time in seven seasons, to 11th place in the league. In his third season, he regressed further to 13th Place. The fourth season saw improvement again with 6th place, but still that would have been far from what is currently acceptable here. I won't even start to imagine how the caf would have treated him in his second and third seasons.

We all agree that Ole is no Fergie. But Ferguson's initial years does give some perspective to the Ole debate. To me, the club is now in every way in as much of a need of rebuild as it was when Ferguson took over in 1986. I am not sure that Ole will be the one to steer the team to titles again. But one can say a few things from Ferguson's United statistics:

1) If a club has gone wrong, a proper rebuild will take time. Even a manager as great as Alex Ferguson needed a number of years to get United on track.
2) Patience can give great rewards. Ferguson would never have taken United to the heights he did if he had not been given the necessary patience in his first years.

Even if we are erratic at times, struggle to break down park the bus teams and don't win enough, I generally find that I agree with the steps Ole are taking to move the club back on track:
- Out with players who are expensive/mercenaries/old/without sufficient mobility
- Emphasise on developing young players from within
- Buying for the future as much as for the current year
- There seem to be a focus on players with speed, mobility and energy
- He seem to have focused on fixing the defence first. In a perspective that goes beyound the next game, and in a world where we can not buy 8 world class players at once, I am fine with that. I am sure he will aim to bring in players who can break down a defence in the next transwer windows.
- Fergie's teams were always deadly on the counter. That is back with Ole
-It seems that he is successfull in installing a team spirit and passion in the team, which I have not seen since Fergie's days (with some exeptions, such as the Arsenal game).

For me it would be madness to kick him out now, with so much work still to be done on the transition side. As Ferguson's early years shows, transition will take time if a club has lost its way. To me, sacking Ole now and bringing in a "top" manager for short term success comes with ith a huge risk, as we may be back to square one if this new manager is not successful in the short term.

It seems clear to me that any manager, even Fergie, would struggle to obtain consistant success with the current United squad. Based on the actions he has taken so far, it does however seem to me that Ole is close to the perfect fit to take us through the rebuilding process of the next few years. A "top" manager will be much more likely to succeed if he takes over in two years, compared to today.

In my view, Ole also deserves a lot of credit and respect for taking the long perspective even at the expense of his own managerial career and reputation, due to his love for the club. Most other managers would be much more focused on the short term in order not to risk their reputation, but as Fergie's early United years shows, patience and a long term perspective is some times needed to get a club back on track. I can not really see us getting that to the same degree from any other manager than Ole.

Other managers would be much more focused on the short term in order not to risk their reputation, but as Fergie's early United years shows, patience and a long term perspective is some times needed to get a club back on track. I can not really see us getting that to the same degree from any other manager than Ole, as the downside to such an approach is ridicule and a destroyed reputation if the manager is eventually not successful or given sufficient time to oversee the transition. Imagine Fergusons reputation in the early nineties if we had lost the famous game to Norwich and he had been sacked in the winter of 1990.

And again, I am in no way saying that Ole is the new Fergie, only that the club is at a point in time where patience and a long term perspective is needed, like in the 1986-90 period. And in my view, Ole is the correct manager for such a period.
 
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