Was what you wrote sarcastic? That shit doesn’t necessarily translate into text well, especially when your take on the Ole out crowd uses the pronoun "we", showing which side of the argument you’re on. If it’s not sarcasm then you’re calling the other side clueless and deluded.
The “Ole In” Brigade
- Thread starter Lentwood
- Start date
Was what you wrote sarcastic? That shit doesn’t necessarily translate into text well, especially when your take on the Ole out crowd uses the pronoun "we", showing which side of the argument you’re on. If it’s not sarcasm then you’re calling the other side clueless and deluded.
Oh no, you must be mistaken. I'm 100% behind Ole.
It's just my point of view on this whole Ole In/out situation.
We have 2 regimes who constantly recycle the same arguments, over and over again.
Same shyte, and I think I need to stop trying to argue about wheter Ole should stay or not.
Nobody thinks Ole is a tactical mastermind.
If he (ever) turns out to be a success (all is relative in that regard, of course - but we can all agree that frequent shite displays against the likes of Watford isn't acceptable), it's extremely unlikely that he will turn out to be a tactical mastermind. His most eager supporters don't expect this, so why bring it up?
Ah, ok. Nevermind then, I totally agree.
Gah, I can’t be arsed to go trawling for another example to throw to that rafael bloke.
It's funny when you read it.
When we win, Ole ins will comment the same thing about plan, youth, progress.
When we lose, the threads will be swarmed with ole outs throwing insults and degrading Ole.
And then they argue, and make out.
The end.
Fully agree, and I like it a lot when people pick out moments in a match that didn't necessarily lead to anything, but highlight something nonetheless.
I've said many times that this team lacks two things that will address our issues against defensive opponents. (1) a midfielder or two that go beyond the ball and (2) a poacher. Fingers crossed that we can address the poacher problem with Haaland and Pogba has shown clearly in 2 halves of football how much of an impact it can make to have a midfielder that instinctively reads a passage of play and gets into the box at the right time.
Haaland (or another similar player) and another forward thinking midfielder (2 if Pogba leaves) and I'm very confident that we will start to put these matches away consistently.
Surely Manchester United should have a manager who’s tactically astute & one of the best???
Full credit to you for defending your position. I actually really respect you for doing that and having the courage to open yourself up for challenge.
I must say that the best and most powerful arguments for the "Ole outers" are some of the statements that you put forward as rebuttals. The undeniable truth is that if Ole had never played for United he would he would not be manager of the club. There is absolutely nothing in Ole's resume that qualifies him to manage a club of the stature and standing of United. Sadly, Ole's situation is compounded by the fact that by his own admission United's development is progressing slower than he had expected only serves to underline the fact that Ole does not seem to have the answers.
Also look at some of his public statements about his squad (particularly midfield) implying at the start of the season that it was good enough when even casual observers could see that it was not. Add to that his recent statement that we should "expect more results like that" (I think after the Everton game) and you get a sense of someone falling over themselves to lower expectations to avoid having to face difficult questions.
To be honest, I have seen nothing that convinces me that Ole is the right man for the job. Obviously I will continue to support him as I did his predecessors, but let's not deceive ourselves, Ole's predecessors were dismissed for less.
Sign of the times. Problem is that the most dedicated and vocal people occupy the extremes in the spectrum. Much like in matters of politics and the like, I reckon there’s a 90 percent group sat in the middle, while 10 percent on either side make most of the noise and distorting reality for everyone.
I used to love being on the Caf, now it’s one of the things that saddens me the most. Outside of real shit, that is.
This would be a good argument if he was saying this after 3 or even 2 seasons, but he's barely been here for a full season and that too, he came in midway through last season.
And to answer your point, I am actually enjoying this season in parts, and I've learned to take the rough with the smooth cos we have gutted the squad which finished 6th and have had numerous injuries to key players. For us to be anywhere near 4th is a testament and a credit to the players and Ole. And I'll support them for as long as they're here.
Also, I hope you were consistent and didn't celebrate or even smile when we beat spurs and city a couple of weeks ago. If/when the inevitable happens and Ole is gone because of the impatient, ungrateful and frankly idiotic elements of this club's support, I hope you have the same energy for Poch or whoever comes in next. Cos I don't think it'll be pretty, at least in the early stages if his past career, and his past etiquette when the spotlight is on him, is anything to go by.
This would be a good argument if he was saying this after 3 or even 2 seasons, but he's barely been here for a full season and that too, he came in midway through last season.
And to answer your point, I am actually enjoying this season in parts, and I've learned to take the rough with the smooth cos we have gutted the squad which finished 6th and have had numerous injuries to key players. For us to be anywhere near 4th is a testament and a credit to the players and Ole. And I'll support them for as long as they're here.
Also, I hope you were consistent and didn't celebrate or even smile when we beat spurs and city a couple of weeks ago. If/when the inevitable happens and Ole is gone because of the impatient, ungrateful and frankly idiotic elements of this club's support, I hope you have the same energy for Poch or whoever comes in next. Cos I don't think it'll be pretty, at least in the early stages if his past career, and his past etiquette when the spotlight is on him, is anything to go by.
what nonsense are you talking about. Of course I celebrated us winning any game. Just because I want Ole out doesnt mean I can’t support the team..is that seriously your argument?
Wow the Ole in lot are a cult
Just when I think your posts couldn't be more stupid, you drop the bar even lower
If beating good teams was so simple and easy, why haven't more teams around our level beaten them?
Is he? Our results whenever Pogba was fit and playing were pretty much the same as they have been since he's been out.
People have used both Pogba and Martial as scapegoats for our poor form whenever they've been out and I've never gotten that because even with both fit we were still basically averaging the same sort of performances and points. Martial came back and we still did and now Pogba is back and we probably still will too.
I think people need to go back to the Pogba thread's from when he actually was fit and look at all the complaining being done about him in there because he wasn't producing enough, before proclaiming that he is some Messi esque remedy to our issues that's worth loads of extra points when he's actually available, because he isn't
Pogba is the best player at this club but he's not the sort of player that transforms a team's fortunes single handedly. He's not a goal scoring or assist machine and he generally only performs at his best when those around him are also performing at their best.
Just when I think your posts couldn't be more stupid, you drop the bar even lower
If beating good teams was so simple and easy, why haven't more teams around our level beaten them?
Because..read my post again a bit more clearly.
We actually don’t have such a terrrible squad- you need good players to do that & beat top teams- counter attack is a easy thing to use too. Which is more of a damming indictment against Ole that we obviously have half decent players but have been rubbish against the dross in the league.
Hope you can understand & reach that bar my friend
The point about pointing to injured key player is that if they play the game, the entire game turns out differently than if they were not playing. Not a single ball trajectory besides the kickoff remain the same.
No, be consistent. You asked me to enjoy being midtable, I asked you if you had the same energy when we beat city and spurs.
Just shows that you're nothing more than a hypocrite, and someone whose opinion on this I cannot take seriously, which your previous posts have also shown (hilariously so, as well)
Yes. But "astute" is a long way from "mastermind".
What people are arguing here is that Ole, at present, simply doesn't have the tools to consistently beat "lesser" opponents (who don't accommodate us, who sit back and deny us the chance(s) to capitalize on imbalances created by them having a go): we don't have enough creativity, we don't have a truly outstanding allround attacker, and we don't have a top notch poacher either.
We also have a generally youthful and inexperienced squad - and with that comes, predictably, inconsistent performances.
Furthermore, we play in a league where even relegation fodder teams possess enough quality to pose a problem on their day. The cliche actually holds true: you can't just turn up and expect to win in England these days - look at City: lose some momentum, have a couple of badly timed injuries, and presto - you're a country mile behind the leaders, right in the middle of a dogfight for 4th.
Any generally "astute" manager might struggle to string together consistent performances with a squad lacking in certain areas. An actual tactical "mastermind" might overcome those deficiencies, sure. But how many who fit that bill are around?
If your stance is that Ole is not even "astute", fair enough. But then you're faced with the fact that his United are currently four points off 4th. Rub of the green next round - and we're talking a couple of points off, perhaps even just ONE. What's the angle, then? He's absolutely terrible - but the team/squad (which most seem to think is clearly lacking) is actually quite brilliant? Does that make sense?
Sure. I would say had De Gea got injured all seasons we would be better off too.
It is hard to know. I think our run with defeat against West Ham, Newcastle and draw with Arsenal could have been better with less injuries though.
And it seems you didn't heed you're own advice either, when I asked about teams at around our level (I.e. Spurs, City, and Arsenal). If this was such an easy tactic, why isn't it replicated by those teams with an arguably better set of players? Why are we second only to Liverpool in the big 6 games? Our set of players, who finished 6th last season, btw.
Keep reaching, and don't give up darling. You'll get there one day, I'm sure.
So, you are saying if he wins every game people will stop attacking him? How generous of them!
Newsflash: we will lose games again, including stupid ones because we have unbalanced and inconsistent team that lacks depth. That is why he said this year is not about results. We need several transfer windows to get consistency and balance and no amount of yelling on Caf is going to change that
Where exactly did I say that he needed to win every game? So far as I can remember, I said the next two and then try to put a run together in fixtures that are winnable. Believe it or not, Solskjaers win ratio is still terrible even with yesterday's win. It's still not good enough - so pipe down.
We'll see
What you're basically doing there is agreeing with me because the poster I was responding to said Pogba would be an extra six points but if nothing is the same then it's absolutely impossible to try claim something like that.
Think we've 2 wins in 6 with Pogba playing iirc. He's not the silver bullet some seem to think he is. You know what is, good fecking coaching.
Ole doesn’t = the club. Stop talking nonsense you’re embarrassing yourself
Nobody think that. But just for fun to prove that it is not black or white. How come we are only team taken points from Klopp? How come Ole went to Etihad and took away 3 points? How come we won against Chelsea twice, Tottenham and Leicester? If Ole is clueless and a catastrophic manager? I’m realy curious what your answer is. Because lucky is not the answer.
What does "winnable" even mean for us? We beat City and lost to Watford. There is no definition of "winnable" to this team. We can win any game, but we dont have the depth and squad to do it consistently, so you are just setting up your argument to bash on Ole when we lose next. Way too thinly veiled, mate!
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Because we don’t have as bad a team as is claimed. We should be doing much much better. With a better manager we would be but ah well champions league is gone again
They have been asked this question and the Ole Out have no answer to it. It is obvious that tactically inapt manager would not succeed in the games Ole did, so they start yapping about losses instead, as if we have a squad to be consistent.
By the way - we do not lose every game where teams sit back, that is factually incorrect, but they keep saying it anyway
It's not good enough - it certainly isn't terrible (unless you compare it to Guardiola and Klopp)
Last time I checked it was at exact 50% but it could be a percentage or 2 up or down. Not great, not terrible
Of course we don't have a bad team, but we dont have a brilliant side. And in order to beat teams like City and Liverpool, not a bad team wont cut it. We do however we have 3-4 players who aren't good enough. No one in their right mind can argue against that - but a bigger problem is our squad, it's just not good enough. And with our injuries this season - we will suffer..as we have.
But a question to you … if our players arent as bad as you say - you agree OGS has to take a lot of credit for transforming Fred and Rashford, for signings 3 players who play regularly and for giving youngsters like Greenwood a chance then ?
It's woeful as permanent United manager.
Ok - so we simply look at the matches that fit our agenda....
Since October 21st he has won 10 out of 16 - that is over 60% - and one of those defeats was with our kids in Astana. Surely that can't Count - so he has won 10 out of 15 matches with our strongest side - 66% - not bad!
I don't understand how some can come on here and argue the exact same thing, day after day, for months on end! To the point of developing a reputation on the boards for being an "inner" or an "outer". I mean, don't you get bored?
Worst part is when it's clear that nothing will change their position. Always the same points said in 10,000 different ways... I mean, what's the point of it all?
6 years of crap you poor baby that must seem like a lifetime.
You know it takes & or 9 years to train to be a doctor, hard work and tough times but rewards at the end!
You cant expect life to be perfect all the time, and when it isnt you cant expect an instant fix.
No. I'm looking at it from an objective point of view. There is a difference between being an interim manager and permanent manager. There is a thing called manager bounce?
28 points in 31 games is terrible. If Solskjaers had a 60% win ratio as a permanent manager, we wouldn't be having this conversation. Look at the his announcement as permanent manager thread -- the majority were happy that he was on board permanently, after that things change, so we go from there.
Okey, lets keep going. Next question. Let us pretend now that you are right (I disagree to a point) about us having "not bad team". Can we agree that all of the teams I brought up have better squad than us? And if so, how is it that we despite having worse squad than those teams we still come out with points? If you are telling the World that Ole is fault for losses against Watford and teams like that, why can't you give him lot of credit against better teams?
Rollocoster of results will happen until our players have the maturity to handle games against weaker opponents. Looking at those games, we have been better overall but still lost. When you are young player you don't have that patience and composure that requires to win games against weaker opponents. You make quick, irrational decisions that affect your play in bad way.
What are you talking about? I am talking about saying fans who want Ole out are plastic/not loyal/glory hunters /will be supporting another club soon when such fans have been supporting the club normally through 6 years of being crap and already passed the test of what they would do when the team stops winning things. If there were glory hunters among United, I ensure you they must have left few years ago!
Manager bounce or not, they are still Ole's results. You can't discredit them simply because he was interim manager at that time. That's silly.
Are we meant to not include the first 2/3 months of performances for every new Manager for every club in Europe because "manager bounce". It's a shit argument personally.