How did that one turn out for the next manager and those same fans? Oh right.
That post match interview with our manager
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How did that one turn out for the next manager and those same fans? Oh right.
If we finish 2nd, progress is to win it. This wont happen. Unless you believe in miracles, Mourinho will be gone this time next season, one way or another.
I get the arguments about Jose's style of football but this is not it. Doesn't matter who you support, there are fundamentals to football and some of these players have proven 'for years' and not just under Jose that they aren't good enough when the expectation is to win. When playing against the 'top teams', everyone accepts it's on the day but those teams that it takes more than ability, they can't deliver.
Rom's will to win is greater than his ability at times but that's enough. How many times has he bullied the CB which has amounted to a go. Sanchez work rate surpasses anyone despite his quality. This is why these two have to start because like I said elsewhere, we have too many players that the conditions to play need to be right and this mindset starting right at the end of SAF era....
Lasting memory of this season is Smalling looking like a little boy in pain whilst we end up conceding against Leicester which at the time, we were still in the position to challenge city.
Rom's will to win is greater than his ability at times but that's enough. How many times has he bullied the CB which has amounted to a go. Sanchez work rate surpasses anyone despite his quality. This is why these two have to start because like I said elsewhere, we have too many players that the conditions to play need to be right and this mindset starting right at the end of SAF era....
Lasting memory of this season is Smalling looking like a little boy in pain whilst we end up conceding against Leicester which at the time, we were still in the position to challenge city.
I remember Sir Alex saying he'd always make a point of telling his players to go out and "have fun"
Under Mourinho, you can tell these players are stressed and under pressure. They try too hard because they know under Mourinho it's do or die.
Rashford will be England's best player soon, but I can imagine Mourinho will have scared him off by then
Under Mourinho, you can tell these players are stressed and under pressure. They try too hard because they know under Mourinho it's do or die.
Rashford will be England's best player soon, but I can imagine Mourinho will have scared him off by then
@In Rainbows. Obviously Mourinho will be chatting to his players in private as well, but I think people blaming preformances on the setup are just absolwing the players of any responsibility. It's just a ridiculous way for people who don't want Mou to say, look, he's making them incapable of doing the simplest thing.
They're scared? That must have been what Rashford was when he didn't try to play across to Martial on friday.
Don't care to defend Costa as I think he's a despicable human but unless I'm mistaking they won the title with him the following year so it's not that simple. Oh and they still have Hazard so I'm sure they'll have little regrets pertaining to not selling those two.
edit: personally wish they did so they'd have Hazard to add to their KDB and Salah heartache
Another thing to think about is leaders on the pitch. Under Fergie we had Robson, Ince, Keane, Neville, Ferdinand, Bruce, Schmeichel, Vidic etc. At least 1 good player and strong willed leader at a time, who could give the others a kick up the arse. We havent had that in a while. This obviously makes a difference as well.
For as average as Martial and Rashford have been, they've still contributed more this season than Mctominay. Imagine if Jose gave those 2 (or even Luke Shaw) half the love he gives to Mctominay...
You'd think McT was the 2nd coming of Paul Scholes.
Looks to me like he wants to prove a point that he likes young players so he can be absorbed of criticism when he eventually ships them out the club.
The recent mentality we're seeing in this forum is w̶h̶y̶ one of the reasons why the club was in the state it was in since sir Alex retired.
Edit: some people have a problem with this sentence. a quick edit to explain my point:
It creates negativity around the club, it translates to other platformes, like reddit, twitter and so on... where do you think the papers get their information ? where do you think they get the mood of the fans so that they write articles going in that direction, creating even more negativity around the club. do you think that the players don't know what's been said in the press, internet ? that, creates negativity around the club and that's not healthy, that helps players or others undermind the managers decisions.
We're fans, nothing more than that, he has a proven record in the professional game. He signed a contract for 3 years, give him the benefit of the doubt, let the man work without undermining what he is doing.
Cult? Because people are supporting the manger over the players for once? Com'on now.
I don't agree with all of his methods, I don't agree with bashing the players publicly. But do we now what happened behind closed doors? Do we know if he talked to them privately first? No, so we shouldn't be quick to judge based on the little information we have as armchair managers.
The progress is tangible, you may not like his methods, we are second, teams aren't bullying us like before.
And it's a joke that people are praising klopp and Guardiola, choosing quotes to advance their agenda. But hey, that's the world we live in right!
Be objective people, give him the time he needs to rebuild the team, before he came, we had Depay, Rooney, Mata, Januzay in attack, schneiderlin, a past it BS, Fellaini... let that sink in, a bunch of mediocre players, now we're getting there again. We building an excellent team. So let the man work, let him finish his contract, we'll see at the end of it.
We would be a midtable team if what the CAF wants was applied.
The length people go to protect players, when you have Rashford that can't pass a simple ball for a goal, or Martial that misses occasion after occasion, don't tell me that's on the manager.
Edit: some people have a problem with this sentence. a quick edit to explain my point:
It creates negativity around the club, it translates to other platformes, like reddit, twitter and so on... where do you think the papers get their information ? where do you think they get the mood of the fans so that they write articles going in that direction, creating even more negativity around the club. do you think that the players don't know what's been said in the press, internet ? that, creates negativity around the club and that's not healthy, that helps players or others undermind the managers decisions.
We're fans, nothing more than that, he has a proven record in the professional game. He signed a contract for 3 years, give him the benefit of the doubt, let the man work without undermining what he is doing.
Cult? Because people are supporting the manger over the players for once? Com'on now.
I don't agree with all of his methods, I don't agree with bashing the players publicly. But do we now what happened behind closed doors? Do we know if he talked to them privately first? No, so we shouldn't be quick to judge based on the little information we have as armchair managers.
The progress is tangible, you may not like his methods, we are second, teams aren't bullying us like before.
And it's a joke that people are praising klopp and Guardiola, choosing quotes to advance their agenda. But hey, that's the world we live in right!
Be objective people, give him the time he needs to rebuild the team, before he came, we had Depay, Rooney, Mata, Januzay in attack, schneiderlin, a past it BS, Fellaini... let that sink in, a bunch of mediocre players, now we're getting there again. We building an excellent team. So let the man work, let him finish his contract, we'll see at the end of it.
We would be a midtable team if what the CAF wants was applied.
The length people go to protect players, when you have Rashford that can't pass a simple ball for a goal, or Martial that misses occasion after occasion, don't tell me that's on the manager.
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Clearly you've never been under pressure. It's easy to over think things. A relaxed Rashford squares that ball
Clearly? Do you know what I do in my life? I just think the players need to start producing more consistently and 4 or 5 are simply not good enough.
Quality post. We were a feared team during SAF’s era and this year for the first time I feel that’s slowly coming back. We do still lack leadership in the team. Let’s wait and see what next year brings before drawing out the daggers.
how is the attitude we are seeing in this forum the reason why the club was in the state it was since Fergie retired? how does that even make sense? if anything, some people here want managerial change before its too late and we are in a deeper hole from which another manager will have to start over to dig us out from. the club seems incredibly reactive and nowhere near as proactive as it should be.
yes, we are fans and as such we reserve the right to criticise and/or voice our opinion when we aren't happy with something. you can't just point to his track record to highlight the positives, trophies, and wholesale dismiss the more negative aspects like what's often understood as defensive/drab football, and his questionable record with youth. and for all the "he's a winner" comments that are often used to defend mourinho, we have only really put decent challenges in second tier cup competitions.
we judge him and speak about these matters based on what is presented to us, and currently that's tumescent football and a manager that goes great lengths at/to lambasting the players while shielding himself of all criticisms by speaking of trophies he has won a while ago at other clubs. we can't sit here speculating about the maybes/and what ifs that happen behind doors and there's nothing wrong with that. otherwise, what would be the point of discussion forums if "we can't judge him based on the little information we have" and have to give him the benefit of the doubt because maybe/perhaps/possibly he spoke to the players behind close doors?
why is it a joke that people are praising klopp or guardiola? they play much better football, and one ran away with the league while the other is in the CL final, and with klopp you can't even say he has a better squad than us. their methods, be it tactics or the way they treat players, are seemingly working a lot better than mourinho's.
the performance vs brighton wasn't an isolated incident though. we regularly put inept performances like that one to the point that us being second is a mystery even sherlock holmes would have trouble deciphering how it happened. reducing it to martial and rashford is just incredibly foolish and disingenuous since we have seen similar performances with players mourinho brought in like sanchez and lukaku, multiple times at that, so yeah, it's on the manager.
Nothing wrong or inaccurate with what he said. The summer is coming and with any luck the axe will swing and chop off the deadwood.
Common sense. Good post.
I really wonder what would have become of Jose if he had to work with Liverpool's budget or had to make do with players like Lovren, Henderson or Karius
No. He is way too greedy. Pressure or not.
It creates negativity around the club, it translates to other platformes, like reddit, twitter and so on... where do you think the papers get their information ? where do you think they get the mood of the fans so that they write articles going in that direction, creating even more negativity around the club. do you think that the players don't know what's been said in the press, internet ? that, creates negativity around the club and that's not healthy, that helps players or others undermind the managers decisions.
How would you go for as a manager ? the name that's poping all the time is Pochettino ? so people are talking about Tuchel, about Jardim, how crazy is that ? who says that they gonna do better than what Jose is doing ? at least he has the pedigree to attract the kind of players this club needs.
How are we in a deeper hole than before ? we're second, only to a team that's breaking records after records.
Yes, i agree with all the things that you wrote here, however, we should be sensible enough to know that it's not easy, that two years aren't enough and that what we saw in those two years is enough to give him the benefit of the doubt, to let him work.
Who has a good record with youth ? that's not a stick you can beat him with, Klopp has a good record with young ? Guardiola ? who ? Zidane ?
you say that we cann't sit here speculating on the maybes and what happens behind doors and thus, without having enough information on what happens, but at the same time, you do exactly that, you judge him without knowing what's happening.
It is a joke when you hand pick things to suit your Agenda, of course it is, it's dishonnest.
i agree with that, We have seen similar performances under van gaal, way worse, why isn't the players ? why is it the manager ? i'm not saying that it's not the manager, but why shouldn't it be the player ? i'm not resuming the game against brighton to Martial and Rashford, i'm merely pointing that we had occasion anyway and that Martial and Rashford should have done better, their fallings in the game wasn't because management, far from it.
Under pressure? With Top 4 already guaranteed, against a bottom club. Now is your chance to start, which you have been complaining in the past few months, and you think winning is not important, because no matter how well I play, Lukaku and Sanchez always start, so what is the point.
I stopped checking Mourinho interviews after the Sevilla game. Nothing is ever his fault, he should go and become a pundit.
No it isn't
This is so true. It's up to the players to carry out the instructions and perform on the pitch. Mourinho can't do everything for them. It's a big problem with football these days, some players are over protected and sensitive towards any criticism. Anytime a manager criticises a player in public everyone loses their minds 'Throwing players under the bus' has to be the most over used cliche in football.
I think that question is more suited towards a manager like Pep. Are you forgetting Jose's time at Porto?
What are those instructions? It's hard to tell what our attacking plan is, no matter who is playing.
Liverpool game last month, City away (2nd half) Tottenham in the FA Cup etc. These are games where Mourinho's plans have came off and it's clear the players listened to him and performed to the standard that's required. We're not 2nd and in the FA Cup final by pure luck we are capable of big performances but you have performances like Brighton on Friday and West Brom the other week where it's looked like the players couldn't be bothered and are already thinking about the WC or their holidays. Before you bring up Sevilla, clearly that performance was down to the manager he got it wrong tactically but you can't say it's Mourinho's fault all the time. The players need to perform as well.
Of course they do. And you named three big games where we sat and played on the break. We have no issues there, as it's what he knows. What's the plan when we play the poorer sides who sit against us? It seems to be just hope for the best and someone work a piece of magic. Why are we not imposing a style of play onto the opposition like the other top 4 sides do.
drama queens
This is the United version of "this is why Trump won", it's meaningless.
Whatever nonsense fans may spew online has negligible bearing on the managerial, transfer issues and a bit of lack of foresight that has affected the club since Fergie left. Don't try to subtly police other people's opinions online by trying to make a spurious link, pinning what's not at all their fault on them.
I'm sure it's the twitter and reddit posts players are reading that's the part cause for some performances this season. Imagine
Like it or not, at the end when the majority of players start to underperform it is the manager who gets the boot. These are the simple realities in today's football.
It could be annoying. He's right, though.
you put way too much weight onto forum discussions, way more than they merit. if you genuinely believe the attitude around this forum and/or reddit is substantially responsible for the situation the club was in after Fergie retired then i'm a fool for even seriously engaging you.
deeper hole than the situation we are currently in. you know, terrible football, 5 years no league title, and mostly doing alright in second tier cup competitions, with a team that although has made some progress in terms of results (hard not to after after a £300m investment and with previous league campaigns having 5th and 6h placed finishes) is still pretty much lacking cohesiveness and any discerning characteristic of positive attacking football, as well as being eons away from europe's elite, and in danger of being left in the dust by its historical rivals, as well as by its city neighbours. again, imo, us being second in the league is not a true reflection of our performances, i feel we fluked our way to second and lucked out with liverpool's inconsistent start to the league, as well as chelsea's debacle.
who says they are going to do worse? if "who says they are going to do better than what we have right now?" was a legitimate and/or best measurement or guidance to whether change should occur or not, then no club would ever change managers. also, manchester united should still be capable of attracting top talent without mourinho at the helm.
no one said his job is easy, however, he gets compensated handsomely for it, no sympathy in that regard, at the highest level you have to produce, and i don't believe he has done enough to afford him benefit of the doubt all things considered. progress has happened at a snail's pace, the team isn't particularly good at anything, i mean, pretty average in possession, slow and laboured build up, can't define counters, can't/don't press, no width, comical defending with our GK having to bail us out over and over, what are we good at? that's a genuine question btw, multiple players have regressed, and at this point I'd even go as far as to say no Mourinho transfer has turned out to be a runaway hit yet aside from maybe Lukaku (and i wouldn't be particularly aggravated if someone decided to question even that). both Guardiola and Klopp have been at their respective clubs for around 2 years (slightly more for Klopp iirc) and they managed to implement their style of play on their teams, why can't mourinho? why don't we have one recognisable trait that we are consistently good at two years into his tenure?
Klopp had a pretty young core at Dortmund and still does at Liverpool with their average age being 26, Pochettino seems to be doing decently with young players too, and Guardiola has seemingly improved Sterling and Sane's game, Jesus is doing well too. Sure, you could question the whole youth thing, but in contrast, our young players have regressed.
i already stated we can only judge and discuss what is presented to us. i'm not about to sit here and speculate about mourinho paying fairy godmother visits to the players before trashing them in press conferences. what we have is tumescent football and a manager that goes great lengths at/to lambasting the players while shielding himself of all criticisms by speaking of trophies he has won a while ago at other clubs. that is what is presented to us, and that is what we speak on.
its no agenda to say City and Liverpool play better than us and that one ran away with the league while the other is in the CL final. both did it in/with style too. their methods, be it tactics or the way they treat players, are seemingly working a lot better than mourinho's. there's no agenda in saying that, its facts.
the team has a whole, De Gea aside, has been poor and continues to be so, that has to fall on the manager. no amount of hiding behind Rashford not putting a simple ball through to Martial and/or Martial's inconsistency will obfuscate that. Responsibility falls on the manager. "b-b-but he was the special one some years ago", dude is washed up.
Yea, also LVG's time with Ajax donkey years ago.
He was a divisive character before he started at United and he'll be divisive when he leaves. Even if he won't the league and CL there are some who never change their dislike of him - it's just the way it is.
But it can definitely be argued that the reason for their underperformance is because of him not being able to incorporate an attacking style of play that would get the best out of them (and everyone else) along with not making them feel valued throughout the season or even be in any future plans. The second they play well, they get dropped. Others play shit and never get dropped. That's the difference. Bad performances happen to everyone, saying "this is why lukaku always plays" is a load of shit because hes just absolving himself of any blame when he should be the first to be blamed.
Literally 2 weeks ago we played like shit against West Brom with all the main players. Last week we had Martial come on and change the game for us. Now suddenly he doesnt play because of a bad performance? Come on.
I agree with every sentiment here. This is exactly how I’m feeling.
These players are paid a feckin ridiculous amount of money each week and are consistently not performing to an acceptable level. They should be ashamed and fully deserve the bollocking
Exactly he has no patience to work with them and he knew he would be criticised for that here, who could forget him bringing out his list of players he gave chances to when he started here....
Last season he used Rashford to deflect some blame and this season Rashford is out. This season McTominay will be used to deflect criticism for his handling of Martial and Rashford and next season he will be out too.
It's a weird one for me. On the one hand, I enjoy seeing a group of underperforming, overly-pampered, social media addicted clowns get called out for what they are. For too long since SAF, we've had to witness a continual stream of half-assed underachievement, and the uncomfortable truth, at least as far as I can see it is that many of these guys just aren't up to it.
On the other hand, I don't think this is the best management approach from Mourinho. It stirs uncomfortable memories of past meltdowns at Chelsea, and as pointed out, he never seems to accept his share of the blame. Unlike SAF, whose every press conference utterance was obviously in service of the team's best interests, Mourinho always seems to be looking out for number one above all else.
It's hard to see this going on beyond another season. Whether that will ultimately benefit the team, I really couldn't guess.
On the other hand, I don't think this is the best management approach from Mourinho. It stirs uncomfortable memories of past meltdowns at Chelsea, and as pointed out, he never seems to accept his share of the blame. Unlike SAF, whose every press conference utterance was obviously in service of the team's best interests, Mourinho always seems to be looking out for number one above all else.
It's hard to see this going on beyond another season. Whether that will ultimately benefit the team, I really couldn't guess.
The average players point doesn't sell when he is literally begging fellaini go to stay
Well under Mourinho if you don't play well in your one chance then you're out the team. This isn't a secret, Mourinho has effectively said this himself.
To expect a young player to get one start and turn in a World Class performance, otherwise he's out the team, is unrealistic.