Thanks for the engineering perspective BR. Have a feeling they may have to wait for it to dry up a bit. Sounds too horrendous for young inexperienced kids to attempt, hope I’m wrong. Wonder where they are going to toilet
Thai Cave kids | All 12 boys and coach rescued from cave | visiting United
- Thread starter Ekkie Thump
- Start date
Thanks for the engineering perspective BR. Have a feeling they may have to wait for it to dry up a bit. Sounds too horrendous for young inexperienced kids to attempt, hope I’m wrong. Wonder where they are going to toilet
This is frightening really. The graph above doesn't help...
Sorry if this has been covered, but how did these boys end up in a cave where the only way out is underwater?
Heavy rain flooded the cave after they had entered.
wikipedia said:
I'd say lock up the stupid coach when they get out.
Technically it would have been June when they entered with the monsoon not expected to start for several weeks but unfortunately in that part of the world one severe downpour can dump 30cm or more in an hour and when that surface water is focused into narrow caves and channels they can fill up very quickly so a bit harsh to lock up a 25 year old for one silly mistake.
Wow, terrifying. Getting the kids to dive out seems an impossibility to me to be honest.The whole thing looks terrifying. I guess it's all about finding the least bad options.
They're closing off underground waterways that feed in, and trying to re-route surface water streams that feed into those underground fissures to give them a chance of getting the water levels down. If it starts raining hard, they'll lose that control.
There are some good graphics at:
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2...escuers-race-time-trapped-boys-monsoon-storms
that give an idea of what the route looks like.
And this from the BBC that gives an overview
He may have been silly taking them in there in the first place (although we don't know all the circumstances yet), but he kept 12 young kids alive for 10 days in horrific conditions. Let's not start judging him yet.
Some sort of structure that covers a whole mountain? That would probably take a while to build.
It's almost like that porous, limestone rock which provided them with breathable air and drinkable water for 10 days isn't waterproof or something!
I read that the scubadivers and the Thai governor (the later qualifying the idea of nonsense, maybe for political image) discarded to wait 4 months and they will try to teach them how to dive even if it is dangerous.
My dad did spelunking and I never wanted to do it. Just seeing his pictures makes me sick. A friend of his died diving inside a cave. I am a certified scuba diver and will never do the caving certification. Ever. I can't imagine what it is in this extreme, none visible situation. Hope they can make it
My dad did spelunking and I never wanted to do it. Just seeing his pictures makes me sick. A friend of his died diving inside a cave. I am a certified scuba diver and will never do the caving certification. Ever. I can't imagine what it is in this extreme, none visible situation. Hope they can make it
My assumption is several mitigation plans are underway. It could be that the authorities well and truly know that they must make some sort of effort to teach the children as much as they can to perform the dive. It is expected that a storm will hit the area on Friday and that will give all experts the best indication of how well they have prevented rainwater to permeate into the ground and potentially how much time is on their side.
Bury explained it really well, there's too many time and engineering constraints preventing use of TBM or Bore Hole Drilling.
I really don't know how they're going to get the children out via that enormous stretch of diving.
I reckon some genius will find a feasible route out for them that will probably require a lengthy period of time whilst the children will be taught to dive as a last resort if waters start to rise.
Bury explained it really well, there's too many time and engineering constraints preventing use of TBM or Bore Hole Drilling.
I really don't know how they're going to get the children out via that enormous stretch of diving.
I reckon some genius will find a feasible route out for them that will probably require a lengthy period of time whilst the children will be taught to dive as a last resort if waters start to rise.
I did some speleology or caving or whatever you call it with school when I was a kid. There were small tunnels of at least 2-3 meters long where we needed to crawl through.
Scary stuff thinking back, I must not have been any older than 12-13 years old. I would never let my daughter do that, who knows what can go wrong.
There's no guarantee that ledge they're on is safe if the cave gets flooded further in the monsoon season. So I'm imagining that they have to have a diving plan ready to go at a moments notice even if just as a last resort.
If they are are beginning to shy away from the idea of waiting it out then someone's probably crunched some numbers and they aren't confident that the water levels in the cave will stay low enough. It's going to be terrifying for the kids but it's time for human ingenuity to shine again. With the best experts in cave diving on the scene I believe they will get it done. Perhaps using the stretchers.
If they are are beginning to shy away from the idea of waiting it out then someone's probably crunched some numbers and they aren't confident that the water levels in the cave will stay low enough. It's going to be terrifying for the kids but it's time for human ingenuity to shine again. With the best experts in cave diving on the scene I believe they will get it done. Perhaps using the stretchers.
Some stuff from VG (norwegian site):
1. They have to get the kids out either through the water or climbing upwards. Waiting for the rain-period to stop is not an option.
2. All but the youngest kid (including the teacher) are categorized as green (good) health-wise, with the youngest being coded yellow, it doesn't say if it's due to mental stress or potential physical danger.
3. They have food (chicken, rice, energy-gel in tubes is mentioned), and both a doctor and a nurse have been to see them.
4. The marines are trying to pump out as much water as possible from the cave, and have so far been pumping more out than the rain has pushed in but that won't be the case forever.
They were in the cave to celebrate one of the kids birthday-party, which is said to be very normal with that specific cave, they were meant to go someplace else after the visit to the cave and celebrate some more. VG also reports that the coach is a former munk who has been teaching them to meditate which they report (assumption by tourist-police) to have helped the kids get through those days in the dark.
The cave is said to have a lot of large chambers you have to crawl through a hole to get into. It's one of these chambers the kids supposedly are in. For now the chamber is supposed to be dry.
The plan is to take them out 1-by-1 as they get ready for the trip, they have been trying to getting used to diving-equipment, the planners are going to spend 2 days in hopes of trying to figure out how to reduce the risk as much as possible. Meanwhile it will be made more attempts to figure out if there are climbing-options to get them out. Climbers have so far been able to get 500 meters down into the cave, but they have not reached them yet and they will be making more attempts today (unless VG is talking about next Thursday).
Going in like was done with the miners earlier will not be possible because of the risk of having the whole cave collapse.
1. They have to get the kids out either through the water or climbing upwards. Waiting for the rain-period to stop is not an option.
2. All but the youngest kid (including the teacher) are categorized as green (good) health-wise, with the youngest being coded yellow, it doesn't say if it's due to mental stress or potential physical danger.
3. They have food (chicken, rice, energy-gel in tubes is mentioned), and both a doctor and a nurse have been to see them.
4. The marines are trying to pump out as much water as possible from the cave, and have so far been pumping more out than the rain has pushed in but that won't be the case forever.
They were in the cave to celebrate one of the kids birthday-party, which is said to be very normal with that specific cave, they were meant to go someplace else after the visit to the cave and celebrate some more. VG also reports that the coach is a former munk who has been teaching them to meditate which they report (assumption by tourist-police) to have helped the kids get through those days in the dark.
The cave is said to have a lot of large chambers you have to crawl through a hole to get into. It's one of these chambers the kids supposedly are in. For now the chamber is supposed to be dry.
The plan is to take them out 1-by-1 as they get ready for the trip, they have been trying to getting used to diving-equipment, the planners are going to spend 2 days in hopes of trying to figure out how to reduce the risk as much as possible. Meanwhile it will be made more attempts to figure out if there are climbing-options to get them out. Climbers have so far been able to get 500 meters down into the cave, but they have not reached them yet and they will be making more attempts today (unless VG is talking about next Thursday).
Going in like was done with the miners earlier will not be possible because of the risk of having the whole cave collapse.
This is so terrifying. Makes me feel claustrophobic.
Holy feck, what a horror situation this is. Can they pump out more water than the incoming rain?
How'd they get that far?The whole thing looks terrifying. I guess it's all about finding the least bad options.
They're closing off underground waterways that feed in, and trying to re-route surface water streams that feed into those underground fissures to give them a chance of getting the water levels down. If it starts raining hard, they'll lose that control.
There are some good graphics at:
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2...escuers-race-time-trapped-boys-monsoon-storms
that give an idea of what the route looks like.
And this from the BBC that gives an overview
Not when the rain properly starts.
From the pictures I saw, I think they are using open circuit rather than rebreather?
The Guardian seems to have more details than the other English reports, so maybe that has some clues.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2...escuers-race-time-trapped-boys-monsoon-storms
The Guardian seem to be keeping their reports up to date as well. They're often really strong on these live reports.
Apparently the kids reported that they had sometimes heard surface noise like dogs barking, roosters crowing. There are teams looking for other connections to the chamber/tunnel system they're in, in case they can create a row that way. Plus, for the moment, they're trying to get water levels down enough to make the actual totally submerged sections shorter.
Alright smart arses. Perhaps I didnt make my post sufficently clear.
I was assuming that the majority of the water gets in through the entrance to the cave. Perhaps it doesnt I dont know. But in the event it does then blocking the majority of water getting in there would seem logical.
The main water ingress is about a mile into the cave. They're controlling that and pumping out more than comes in now but won't be able to once it starts raining heavily. There are some good graphics and maps at:
https://www.theguardian.com/world/n...re-the-boys-found-and-how-can-they-be-rescued
Oh man this whole thing is stressing me out now.
Same. Just thinking about makes me jittery.
The round trip to and from the boys takes 11 hours. For experienced divers. fecking hell!
Yeah i read that today, its mad.
They are hoping to be able to reduce water levels to waist height in most of the caverns but they have a long way to go and not much time. Poor kids
Holy hell!
What a horrible situation. The families most feel so desperately helpless.
That gives me the creeps so much. It reminds me of this scene from The Descent.
That gives me the creeps so much. It reminds me of this scene from The Descent.
Is there no way to sink a shaft from above down into the cave they are captured in? As in would it take too long or is it not geologically possible?
Well that’s just mean!
The whole thing looks terrifying. I guess it's all about finding the least bad options.
They're closing off underground waterways that feed in, and trying to re-route surface water streams that feed into those underground fissures to give them a chance of getting the water levels down. If it starts raining hard, they'll lose that control.
There are some good graphics at:
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2...escuers-race-time-trapped-boys-monsoon-storms
that give an idea of what the route looks like.
And this from the BBC that gives an overview
I repeat, how the feck did they get down there on the first place?
Yeah what the feck? Did the graph take water levels into account, caused by the rain?
This is such an interesting story.
What about the zone where climbing gear is needed, how did they get down there then?
One positive from this is it's an excellent team-building exercise. I'd have money on them to win their next game.
Invite these kids to the WC final if they are rescued before.
Perhaps they climbed down with climbing gear?
They had been there before in similar activities, and knew the cave well. The flash flooding was the unexpected event.
Or that diagram represents only one of various different routes.
I haven't read too much into this, but can they not send in expert divers to do some kind of tandem setup where they take a person out each? Probably an idiotic idea for anyone who knows anything about this situation.
The complication arises with the fact that some parts of the cave are too narrow to even fit the oxygen tanks. Combine that with zero visibility and it's a very scary situation for experienced divers, nevermind kids who don't even know how to swim.