Tennis 2023

saivet said:
Even ignoring potential mental fatigue I think Alcaraz's draw is quite tricky too.
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Exactly. Sinner/Zverev, Medevedev and Djokovic is a tough draw but also, I feel it'll help him because Djokovic's draw is a joke and he'll come into the final quite undercooked.
 
GuybrushThreepwood said:
Going forward Alcaraz will need to dial down the intensity and fighting spirt that he shows in smaller tournaments, so that he has more left in the tank for the grand slams and big tournaments, and to sustain success over as long a period of time as possible.

There's a balance to be had though. A mentality that 'only grand slams matter', which Sampras really pushed in the 90s, is very damaging for the sport, as the more interest there is throughout the season and not just at 4 grand slams, the better.

I remember the young Nadal would fight just as hard in every match that he played, regardless of the tournament, round and opponent. For example during his 2008 Chennai semi-final against Moya, he saved 3 match points and won it in nearly 4 hours. Now in the grand scheme of things, whether or not he won a Chennai semi-final (and he was totally spent for the final the next day) wasn't significant for his career, or in the immediate term for his Australian Open prospects. I think the following year, he pushed his body to the limit to try and win a title in Rotterdam (I think he lost to Murray in the final). He then learned that he needed to pick his battles and conserve his energy as much as possible. A few years later, I remember watching him play Tsonga at Queen's, losing the 2nd tiebreak, and then basically not bothering to compete or exert himself in the 3rd set. That made perfect sense, as he had already played a huge number of matches during the season, and whether or not he beat Tsonga at Queen's (I think that was in 2011 when he had won Wimbledon the last 2 times he entered it), was irrelevant for his Wimbledon title chances, he just needed to get some match practice on grass beforehand.
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I think Alcaraz is still evolving.

His game is still raw, but in a couple years, I think he'll be able to sweep up smaller tournaments without getting out of second gear. Right now, that's a bit more difficult

To be fair, he only played the Masters events after Wimbledon. The problem was the amount of time spent on court, but I don't think he was wrong to push himself in any of those, and the fight in the final was expected given who he played.

All that plus how hard he's been pushing against Novak and others throughout the season is bound to burn him out either during or after the US Open.
 
MattofManchester said:
I think Djokovic is a shoe in for the US Open at this point. Tsitsipas is not a threat and Rune possible won't get that far.

I can see Alcaraz having a bit of mental burnout as we get closer to the end of the season. It's been pretty intense for him.
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Out in Round 1. Djokovic's half of the draw is a joke really which is particularly annoying because you can't expect any decent matches to watch from that side.
 
wr8_utd said:
Out in Round 1. Djokovic's half of the draw is a joke really which is particularly annoying because you can't expect any decent matches to watch from that side.
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I was going to try and play devil's advocate and say if FAA (R4), Fritz (QF) and Round (SF) show some form and play their best then they won't be easy opponents. Turns out Djokovic has a combined H2H of 13-0 against those three :lol:

I do think it's a bit of a shame that Medvedev landed on the other half of the draw. He's not been in great form but it's a more interesting match up vs Djokovic than it is against Alcaraz.
 
saivet said:
I was going to try and play devil's advocate and say if FAA (R4), Fritz (QF) and Round (SF) show some form and play their best then they won't be easy opponents. Turns out Djokovic has a combined H2H of 13-0 against those three :lol:

I do think it's a bit of a shame that Medvedev landed on the other half of the draw. He's not been in great form but it's a more interesting match up vs Djokovic than it is against Alcaraz.
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Exactly, they're all easy matchups for Djokovic :lol: Besides, Ruud has absolutely no weapons and FAA won't even make it close to R4. The only match which has some potential to maybe cause Djokovic to reach a tiebreak atleast is if he faces Tsitsipas. Apart from that, it's a desperately poor draw while Carlos' half has quite a few decent matches. And I agree about Medvedev. I don't think he'll do well vs Carlos but him vs Novak in a semifinal would have been super fun, especially given their last meeting here.
 
GuybrushThreepwood said:
A mentality that 'only grand slams matter', which Sampras really pushed in the 90s, is very damaging for the sport, as the more interest there is throughout the season and not just at 4 grand slams, the better.
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Sampras never pushed this. He'd have more Australian Opens if so, he also didn't give a rats ass about the French. He simply played to his strengths.
 
Zen said:
Sampras never pushed this. He'd have more Australian Opens if so, he also didn't give a rats ass about the French. He simply played to his strengths.
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He did. He specifically said it quite a few times during his career, and also similar things such as ' 'It’s all about the majors'. Plus he flat out tanked (or at least didn't bother to compete) at regular tournaments when he didn't feel up for it. Right after he won his first title at Philadelphia in early 1990, he said, 'No-one remembers who won Philadelphia or Memphis. Where you make your name is the Grand Slams.'

In the 00s when there were frequent Federer-Sampras comparisons, it was clear how much more seriously Federer treated non-slam tournaments compared to Sampras.

He cared very much about the French Open up to and including 1996, when he beat Bruguera and Courier, but physically had nothing left in the tank for his semi-final against Kafelnikov and hit the wall. After that defeat he realised that he was never going to win that title at RG; he had the ability and fitness to score big victories on clay from time to time, but not to score the series of consecutive victories required to lift the trophy. Him becoming more and more of an out and out of serve volleyer under Annacone during the late 90s, and less of the all court player that he had previously been, also contributed to the sharp decline in his results at RG post 1996. He also said a few times that a French Open title was 'the only thing missing from my career'.

And he also cared about the Australian Open, but didn't like the rebound ace or conditions and weather in general there, confirming that in his autobiography. Still Agassi, who loved rebound ace, was the main barrier to him winning more titles there, beating him in the 1995 final and their 2000 semi-final (when Sampras was 2 points away from a 4 set win).
 
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I know the quality and style of opponent makes a big difference, but Murray seems to be hitting his backhand flatter and more powerful than previously. Or am I just imagining it.
 
GuybrushThreepwood said:
He did. He specifically said it quite a few times during his career, and also similar things such as ' 'It’s all about the majors'. Plus he flat out tanked (or at least didn't bother to compete) at regular tournaments when he didn't feel up for it. Right after he won his first title at Philadelphia in early 1990, he said, 'No-one remembers who won Philadelphia or Memphis. Where you make your name is the Grand Slams.'

In the 00s when there were frequent Federer-Sampras comparisons, it was clear how much more seriously Federer treated non-slam tournaments compared to Sampras.

He cared very much about the French Open up to and including 1996, when he beat Bruguera and Courier, but physically had nothing left in the tank for his semi-final against Kafelnikov and hit the wall. After that defeat he realised that he was never going to win that title at RG; he had the ability and fitness to score big victories on clay from time to time, but not to score the series of consecutive victories required to lift the trophy. Him becoming more and more of an out and out of serve volleyer under Annacone during the late 90s, and less of the all court player that he had previously been, also contributed to the sharp decline in his results at RG post 1996. He also said a few times that a French Open title was 'the only thing missing from my career'.

And he also cared about the Australian Open, but didn't like the rebound ace or conditions and weather in general there, confirming that in his autobiography. Still Agassi, who loved rebound ace, was the main barrier to him winning more titles there, beating him in the 1995 final and their 2000 semi-final (when Sampras was 2 points away from a 4 set win).
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Good post!
 
Carolina Red said:
Have to say, I’m pretty embarrassed by the US Open fans over this.

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Cry me a river. She was stalling that match like crazy. Couldn't wait for the match to be over so Novak gets on the court. She would have dragged it until 3 am if she could.
 
Carolina Red said:
Did she go over the time limit?
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The fck I know. It was extremely slow. I think you are focusing on her serve. She was stalling Coco's serve. There is this common courtesy in tennis to be ready when opponent wants to serve. Yeah, there are delays for towel etc but she was overdoing it.
 
ExoduS said:
The fck I know. It was extremely slow. I think you are focusing on her serve. She was stalling Coco's serve. There is this common courtesy in tennis to be ready when opponent wants to serve. Yeah, there are delays for towel etc but she was overdoing it.
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You realize at this point I could tell you to cry me a river, right?

But seriously, as an American, I didn’t like it. No reason to do things like cheer faults or boo her off the court.
 
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Carolina Red said:
You realize at this point I could tell you to cry me a river, right?

But seriously, as an American, I didn’t like it. No reason to do things like cheer faults or boo her off the court.
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Did you watch the match or did you just find that out on twitter? Honest question.
 
7 wins out of 7 for British players in the 1st round. Yes they all had favourable opponents, but still that feels a bit surreal !

I did feel sorry for Sakkari as she broke down in tears following her 1st round defeat. Her inability to win a 2nd WTA title (with her only one coming in Rabat back in 2019) is widely mocked by tennis fans, and since entering the top 10 her grand slam results have been pretty disastroua including 3 straight 1st round defeats. I hope she can regroup. She has a very impressive physique, but there are suspicions that she doesn’t get the balance between physical training and technical training (i.e. working on her serve and groundstrokes right). I think a coaching change is definitely needed there.

I also feel sorry for the fans that paid for Arthur Ashe night session tickets yesterday, with a 43 year old Venus suffering a heavy defeat, and Alcaraz’s opponent Koepfer rolling his ankle in the first game and retiring injured during the 2nd set after hobbling around.
 
Another early round exit at the US Open for Tsitsipas. It is a bit odd how he's never made it past R3.
 
The joke that is the Novak half of the draw continues with even Tsitsipas out today.
 
saivet said:
Another early round exit at the US Open for Tsitsipas. It is a bit odd how he's never made it past R3.
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He's 14-12 in his career at Wimbledon and the USO. He clearly just seems to lose steam in the second half of seasons?!
 
Carolina Red said:
She stayed within the rules for what I can recall.
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She kept delaying when Gauff was serving. Rule is you play to the servers pace with a reasonable expectation. You definitely don't make the server wait again and again. She was definitely in the wrong and coco was absolutely spot on in her complaint to the ref
 
mav_9me said:
She kept delaying when Gauff was serving. Rule is you play to the servers pace with a reasonable expectation. You definitely don't make the server wait again and again. She was definitely in the wrong and coco was absolutely spot on in her complaint to the ref
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That’s a gray area for a reason.
 
Ruud and Tsitspas, the two most "difficult" seeds left in Novak's half, both knocked out today.
 
Wozniacki actually beat Kvitova. Did not expect that. Should beat Brady too for a ticket to the quarter finals.
 
Murray breaking back on Dimitrov in an incredible game.

Murray running down the net cord and flicking it back over was an amazing point.
 
Djokovic in slight trouble. Down a set, and down a break in 2nd set. Good time to put some money on Djokovic or maybe after 2nd set is done
 
This by the way is over. Djokovic in 5 sets.

Wonder what the odds were at beginning of 3rd set
 
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