Tennis 2022

Status
Not open for further replies.
MattofManchester said:
Kyrgios is a massive test for Nadal, always has been, but Fritz is first up.

Bombing servers with big games have always been problematic for Nadal at Wimbledon.
Click to expand...

Kyrgios is a threat over 3 sets, but doesn't have the staying power for 5, he can't handle the battle of attrition that paying Nadal involves. Fritz is no threat whatsoever.

The chances of the final not involving Nadal and Djokovic were infinitesimal from the start, and have only gotten smaller!l.
 
The Hilton said:
Kyrgios is a threat over 3 sets, but doesn't have the staying power for 5, he can't handle the battle of attrition that paying Nadal involves. Fritz is no threat whatsoever.

The chances of the final not involving Nadal and Djokovic were infinitesimal from the start, and have only gotten smaller!l.
Click to expand...
Fritz has beaten Rafa once already this season and he's playing good tennis here. Rafa may be favorite but the odds of him losing a match to a random redlining big serving player are far higher at Wimbledon than at any other Slam and we've seen this often over the years. Nick will be another serious test as he's proven in both their Wimbledon (and other events) meetings in the past. Not having to face FAA and Berretini will make his path a lot easier but these will still be two very difficult games for Rafa. Novak, similarly, will face a huge test in Sinner though his semifinal looks pretty straightforward.
 
Ibi Dreams said:
Kyrgios match was surprisingly dull today. Decent win from him though.

On the women's side Halep absolutely demolished the number 4 seed. Breezed through the match like it was nothing. A good bet to win the tournament
Click to expand...
This is key when you're facing Nick to not get dragged into all the drama that he's going to try create.
KirkDuyt said:
Ah really? I dont watch him a lot honestly. He irks me. As does Djokovic. Wish they'd retire alrdy :wenger:
Click to expand...
Yup. Over the last 3-4 years, he's gotten really nervy in third sets and when closing out sets/matches so him getting broken when serving for match today was routine really.
 
The Hilton said:
Kyrgios is a threat over 3 sets, but doesn't have the staying power for 5, he can't handle the battle of attrition that paying Nadal involves. Fritz is no threat whatsoever.

The chances of the final not involving Nadal and Djokovic were infinitesimal from the start, and have only gotten smaller!l.
Click to expand...
Fritz beat Nadal once before and is playing really well, I think he is more of a threat than Kyrigos personally.
 
syrian_scholes said:
Fritz beat Nadal once before and is playing really well, I think he is more of a threat than Kyrigos personally.
Click to expand...

wr8_utd said:
Fritz has beaten Rafa once already this season and he's playing good tennis here. Rafa may be favorite but the odds of him losing a match to a random redlining big serving player are far higher at Wimbledon than at any other Slam and we've seen this often over the years. Nick will be another serious test as he's proven in both their Wimbledon (and other events) meetings in the past. Not having to face FAA and Berretini will make his path a lot easier but these will still be two very difficult games for Rafa. Novak, similarly, will face a huge test in Sinner though his semifinal looks pretty straightforward.
Click to expand...
Nadal played with a fractured rib against Fritz last time, to be fair.

though I agree that Fritz is a threat regardless. Can't look past him right now
 
Bizarre how some of you big Nadal fans will argue on one hand that he's the greatest ever but on the other that he's under threat from the likes of Fritz and Kyrgios at a grand slam.

I like Nadal, although not on the same level as you some of you, and I can see that there's basically no chance of him going out before the final. Over 3 sets maybe those guys would have a chance, but 5 no way.
 
The Hilton said:
Bizarre how some of you big Nadal fans will argue on one hand that he's the greatest ever but on the other that he's under threat from the likes of Fritz and Kyrgios at a grand slam.

I like Nadal, although not on the same level as you some of you, and I can see that there's basically no chance of him going out before the final. Over 3 sets maybe those guys would have a chance, but 5 no way.
Click to expand...
You should try the cricket thread. Most of yesterday - the England fans were talking about England's imminent batting collapse. Meanwhile Indian team fans were running reverse jinx operations and claiming England had it in the bag :D

That said, everyone knows that Rafa is getting older, and that his body is getting less resilient. We also see moments of weakness at key moments in matches, whether from a temporary drop in concentration, or an anxiety to "get it over with".

It's not the peak Rafa we remember - but in reality he was never on that peak every match. It's just getting harder to judge whether he can reach that peak again later in a particular tournament or even in particular match.
 
I know it’s traditions and stuff, but I don’t see why they wouldn’t start the matches at say 3pm on the show courts from now. Especially with a womens match that’s likely to be a couple hours at best. The evening games have been really good viewing so far.

I would imagine it really limits the amount of people who can watch it.
 
The Hilton said:
Bizarre how some of you big Nadal fans will argue on one hand that he's the greatest ever but on the other that he's under threat from the likes of Fritz and Kyrgios at a grand slam.

I like Nadal, although not on the same level as you some of you, and I can see that there's basically no chance of him going out before the final. Over 3 sets maybe those guys would have a chance, but 5 no way.
Click to expand...
It’s almost like he might be 36, in the twilight of his career, carrying a chronic injury in a season where he’s already gone the distance and won two grand slams and was contemplating skipping this tournament.
 
Pexbo said:
It’s almost like he might be 36, in the twilight of his career, carrying a chronic injury in a season where he’s already gone the distance and won two grand slams and was contemplating skipping this tournament.
Click to expand...

Completely contradicted yourself within a sentence, impressive. He's 36 and struggling, so much in fact that he's mopped up the all of the Grand Slams so far this year. He's clearly on form this year, and has always been one to raise his game for grand slams. On top of that, most players are beaten before they even set foot on court with him, especially over 5 sets.

Given the weakness of the draw, there was never any chance that the final would involve anyone else. No need to pretend otherwise, and I find it odd that fans of a top all-conquering player this year want to paint him as an underdog. Why not just enjoy him being in nigh-unstoppable form?
 
The Hilton said:
Completely contradicted yourself within a sentence, impressive. He's 36 and struggling, so much in fact that he's mopped up the all of the Grand Slams so far this year. He's clearly on form this year, and has always been one to raise his game for grand slams. On top of that, most players are beaten before they even set foot on court with him, especially over 5 sets.

Given the weakness of the draw, there was never any chance that the final would involve anyone else. No need to pretend otherwise, and I find it odd that fans of a top all-conquering player this year want to paint him as an underdog. Why not just enjoy him being in nigh-unstoppable form?
Click to expand...

Are you completely oblivious to the concept of conditioning?
 
The Hilton said:
Bizarre how some of you big Nadal fans will argue on one hand that he's the greatest ever but on the other that he's under threat from the likes of Fritz and Kyrgios at a grand slam.

I like Nadal, although not on the same level as you some of you, and I can see that there's basically no chance of him going out before the final. Over 3 sets maybe those guys would have a chance, but 5 no way.
Click to expand...
Just a coping mechanism to soften the blow if he does lose. We call it "indekken" in Dutch.
 
Cloudface said:
Just another "character." Acts the prick to people constantly and cries when he gets a little back. Run of the mill goon.
Click to expand...

Totally agree.

A few of my mates in the group chat are all pro-Kyrgios and I don't get it.

The general opinion seems to be he's 'box office' and a 'character' who 'guarantees entertainment'.

But to me, someone who has watched every sport under the sun since I was a kid, I like to see people respect the sport first and foremost.

Yes we like characters but do it in the right way, you should always remain respectful.

I don't think Kyrgios shows respect to his opponents, match officials, the fans or the sport in general.

It's quite a feat to not tick any of those 4 boxes.

I really don't get how someone so unlikeable as a person has gathered so much support.
 
Rafa's quite obviously not in good form. That said, he wasn't in good form at RG as well apart from the QF against Djokovic.
 
Pexbo said:
Are you completely oblivious to the concept of conditioning?
Click to expand...

You're right, one of the best conditioned tennis players there has ever been, famous for his fitness, who only this season outlasted loads other players on his way to winning both available grand slams, on much more taxing surfaces, in part thanks to his superior conditioning, is going to struggle against journeymen due to his lack of conditioning.

Honestly it's just mind boggling. Why do you need to pretend Nadal, who's on for a calendar slam, is an underdog? He's head and shoulders above everyone that isn't Djokovic.
 
The Hilton said:
You're right, one of the best conditioned tennis players there has ever been, famous for his fitness, who only this season outlasted loads other players on his way to winning both available grand slams, on much more taxing surfaces, in part thanks to his superior conditioning, is going to struggle against journeymen due to his lack of conditioning.

Honestly it's just mind boggling. Why do you need to pretend Nadal, who's on for a calendar slam, is an underdog? He's head and shoulders above everyone that isn't Djokovic.
Click to expand...

You’re still really struggling with the idea of conditioning aren’t you? Are you new to sport?
 
The Hilton said:
Bizarre how some of you big Nadal fans will argue on one hand that he's the greatest ever but on the other that he's under threat from the likes of Fritz and Kyrgios at a grand slam.

I like Nadal, although not on the same level as you some of you, and I can see that there's basically no chance of him going out before the final. Over 3 sets maybe those guys would have a chance, but 5 no way.
Click to expand...
Because, as Nadal fans, we can analyse the player we've watched for almost two decades and see he's not in peak form. He hasn't faced anyone who was any kind of threat and the last decade shows that he has struggled against players with big serves and big forehands on hard, but especially so at WImbledon, especially since most of them redline off the topspin strokes that Nadal serves up.
At the moment, his ground game is not as good as it was in 2018 and his serve is nowhere near as good as it was in 2019.

He is clearly nowhere near in peak form while Novak is reaching it in the latter stages. I never said he will lose, but Fritz is a challenge and Kyrgios loves these contests and the defeats to Rafa in the last two GS editions have been by very, very small margins.

Outside of the RG quarters against Novak, he hasn't played his best tennis since the injury against Alcaraz, so we hope he peaks in time, and Fritz will offer a very difficult test if he doesn't.
 
Last edited:
Pexbo said:
You’re still really struggling with the idea of conditioning aren’t you? Are you new to sport?
Click to expand...

The only struggling I'm seeing is with you trying to make an actual point, instead relying on unearned condescension to avoid articulating a reason why a player unbeatable at grand slams this year is somehow the underdog at a grand slam against fodder.

I know perfectly well what conditioning is, and that it doesn't support the idea of Nadal being an underdog at all, as I believe you do too. If you disagree, how about actually articulating why, rather than relying on a teenager's snarky response.
 
MattofManchester said:
Because, as Nadal fans, we can analyse the player we've watched for almost two decades and see he's not in peak form. He hasn't faced anyone who was any kind of threat and the last decade shows that he has struggled against players with big serves and big forehands on hard, but especially so at Wimbledon, especially since most of them redline off the topspin strokes that Nadal serves up.
At the moment, his ground game is not as good as it was in 2018 and his serve is nowhere near as good as it was in 2019.

He is clearly nowhere near in peak form while Novak is reaching it in the latter stages. I never said he will lose, but Fritz is a challenge and Kyrgios loves these contests and the defeats to Rafa in the last two GS editions have been by very, very small margins.

Outside of the RG quarters against Novak, he hasn't played his best tennis since the injury against Alcaraz, so we hope he peaks in time, and Fritz will offer a very difficult test if he doesn't.
Click to expand...

There's some serious hyperbole here. Those "very, very small margins" were 4 set victories, all that struggling from the last decade and the only players to beat him at Wimbledon since 2017 are Djokovic and Federer. Not to mention that he's the form player this year, and is on for the calendar slam. He's going to breeze past Fritz, which I'm sure even Fritz understands, and Krygios will implode whenever he faces some resistance, as always.

As for not facing any kind of threat - that's exactly what I'm talking about - there weren't any in the draw (to either of the big two). Nadal's place in the final has been assured since he declared for the tournament. I get hoping for the worst, but Nadal is so much better than you're giving him credit for.
 
The Hilton said:
The only struggling I'm seeing is with you trying to make an actual point, instead relying on unearned condescension to avoid articulating a reason why a player unbeatable at grand slams this year is somehow the underdog at a grand slam against fodder.

I know perfectly well what conditioning is, and that it doesn't support the idea of Nadal being an underdog at all, as I believe you do too. If you disagree, how about actually articulating why, rather than relying on a teenager's snarky response.
Click to expand...

You know exactly the point I’m making and are doing your best to avoid it because you’d rather make some weird point about Nadal not being the GOAT because his fans are worried he might suffer an upset against lesser players. So stop being cute and whining about being called out on it.

He’s 36. He’s struggled with injuries recently. His form isn’t great.

Out of interest, are you also discrediting everything Ronaldo achieved in the game because now as a 37 year old he’s no longer capable of playing every game and goes through patches of poor form. Or do you point to him scoring two hat tricks in 3 matches and 24 goals this season and say “see there’s nothing wrong with him he’s just not one of the best players of all time”?
 
The Hilton said:
There's some serious hyperbole here. Those "very, very small margins" were 4 set victories, all that struggling from the last decade and the only players to beat him at Wimbledon since 2017 are Djokovic and Federer. Not to mention that he's the form player this year, and is on for the calendar slam. He's going to breeze past Fritz, which I'm sure even Fritz understands, and Krygios will implode whenever he faces some resistance, as always.

As for not facing any kind of threat - that's exactly what I'm talking about - there weren't any in the draw (to either of the big two). Nadal's place in the final has been assured since he declared for the tournament. I get hoping for the worst, but Nadal is so much better than you're giving him credit for.
Click to expand...
I''m not sure what you're trying to achieve by arguing with everyone here. And 4 set victories don't mean they weren't small margins. If you watched the matches, which I take it, you didn't, one or two moments separated one from the other. Nadal the more experienced saw him through those moments. In the opposite direction, Thiem beat Nadal in 4 at AO previously, and that was by ridiculously small margins as well. But his game is nowhere near as good as of this moment as it was then.

He can still find it again, but it is a very hard ask of a player who hasn't touched grass for 3 years and is playing with a problematic foot and now it seems an abdominal problem he refuses to talk about.

While he has won the first two GS, he clearly isn't the best player on tour right now if you actually watch him.

Also, who is hoping for the worst? Fritz and Kyrgios are in form, so most Rafa fans are expecting tough matches. Expecting the worst is expecting him to lose and by a significant margin. Expecting the worst is expecting him to pick up another career-defining injury. Nobody has said that. What we've said is it will be difficult. And unless he is in peak form and his groundstroke game redlines, it is quite difficult to see him beating Novak. Difficult, but in no way impossible. Nadal NEEDS a difficult match to propel him into form. It has always been this way.

It almost feels like you're undermining the quality of Fritz and Kyrgios when they are two of the most in-form grass players at this moment.

However, having said that, Kyrgios might probably out the tournament as of now.
 
Impressive by Sinner. Didn’t let his mistakes cost him compared to Djokovic who did.
 
Only saw it from 4-4 but impressive end to the set from Sinner. Saw he was 4-1 down too so some way to take the opening set.
 
Pexbo said:
You know exactly the point I’m making and are doing your best to avoid it because you’d rather make some weird point about Nadal not being the GOAT because his fans are worried he might suffer an upset against lesser players. So stop being cute and whining about being called out on it.

He’s 36. He’s struggled with injuries recently. His form isn’t great.

Out of interest, are you also discrediting everything Ronaldo achieved in the game because now as a 37 year old he’s no longer capable of playing every game and goes through patches of poor form. Or do you point to him scoring two hat tricks in 3 matches and 24 goals this season and say “see there’s nothing wrong with him he’s just not one of the best players of all time”?
Click to expand...

I had no idea what your point was, as all you'd done was make a childish comment. Thanks for finally expanding on it.

As it is, it seems you've entirely missed my point. You've taken my post as an attack on Nadal or his legacy, even its the opposite. The Ronaldo thing is also irrelevant, I haven't discredited anything about Nadal, in fact I've said right now he's the best player in the world by some margin, and that folks should stop pretending he isn't.

Now that you know I'm not attacking your favourite, let's get to the actual discussion: whether or not Nadal is the greatest or not is irrelevant, its the bizarre dichotomy between thinking he is while also thinking he's the underdog at Wimbledon against players he's far superior to, given that his grand slam form this year is far from "not great", and is in fact far better than anyone else's.
 
saivet said:
Only saw it from 4-4 but impressive end to the set from Sinner. Saw he was 4-1 down too so some way to take the opening set.
Click to expand...

Djokovic was imperious in the first 3 games but since he made his first mistake he’s been guff.
 
I remember being excited when Djokovic was 2-0 down in sets to Musetti, but he didn't have the stamina and Novak ate him. I fear it'll happen today too.
 
The Hilton said:
There's some serious hyperbole here. Those "very, very small margins" were 4 set victories, all that struggling from the last decade and the only players to beat him at Wimbledon since 2017 are Djokovic and Federer. Not to mention that he's the form player this year, and is on for the calendar slam. He's going to breeze past Fritz, which I'm sure even Fritz understands, and Krygios will implode whenever he faces some resistance, as always.

As for not facing any kind of threat - that's exactly what I'm talking about - there weren't any in the draw (to either of the big two). Nadal's place in the final has been assured since he declared for the tournament. I get hoping for the worst, but Nadal is so much better than you're giving him credit for.
Click to expand...
This is just not true. Until Covid hit, Rafa was due to face Berretini in the semi, the guy who has been the best player on grass this year and unbeaten. Prior to that, he had Cilic and FAA as well. He's gotten very lucky his draw has opened up.
 
Giggs' right foot said:
I remember being excited when Djokovic was 2-0 down in sets to Musetti, but he didn't have the stamina and Novak ate him. I fear it'll happen today too.
Click to expand...
Sinner is a lot lot better than Musetti but I agree, I don't see Novak losing either. Even if he goes 0-2 down.
 
Giggs' right foot said:
I remember being excited when Djokovic was 2-0 down in sets to Musetti, but he didn't have the stamina and Novak ate him. I fear it'll happen today too.
Click to expand...
I have my doubts about Sinner but I think he's a lot more proven and less flaky than Musetti.
 
MattofManchester said:
I''m not sure what you're trying to achieve by arguing with everyone here. And 4 set victories don't mean they weren't small margins. If you watched the matches, which I take it, you didn't, one or two moments separated one from the other. Nadal the more experienced saw him through those moments. In the opposite direction, Thiem beat Nadal in 4 at AO previously, and that was by ridiculously small margins as well. But his game is nowhere near as good as of this moment as it was then.

He can still find it again, but it is a very hard ask of a player who hasn't touched grass for 3 years and is playing with a problematic foot and now it seems an abdominal problem he refuses to talk about.

While he has won the first two GS, he clearly isn't the best player on tour right now if you actually watch him.

Also, who is hoping for the worst? Fritz and Kyrgios are in form, so most Rafa fans are expecting tough matches. Expecting the worst is expecting him to lose and by a significant margin. Expecting the worst is expecting him to pick up another career-defining injury. Nobody has said that. What we've said is it will be difficult. And unless he is in peak form and his groundstroke game redlines, it is quite difficult to see him beating Novak. Difficult, but in no way impossible. Nadal NEEDS a difficult match to propel him into form. It has always been this way.

It almost feels like you're undermining the quality of Fritz and Kyrgios when they are two of the most in-form grass players at this moment.

However, having said that, Kyrgios might probably out the tournament as of now.
Click to expand...

Zverev has continued playing despite all the allegations against him. I don't think Nick will be eliminated from Wimbledon at all.
 
MattofManchester said:
I''m not sure what you're trying to achieve by arguing with everyone here. And 4 set victories don't mean they weren't small margins. If you watched the matches, which I take it, you didn't, one or two moments separated one from the other. Nadal the more experienced saw him through those moments. In the opposite direction, Thiem beat Nadal in 4 at AO previously, and that was by ridiculously small margins as well. But his game is nowhere near as good as of this moment as it was then.

He can still find it again, but it is a very hard ask of a player who hasn't touched grass for 3 years and is playing with a problematic foot and now it seems an abdominal problem he refuses to talk about.

While he has won the first two GS, he clearly isn't the best player on tour right now if you actually watch him.

Also, who is hoping for the worst? Fritz and Kyrgios are in form, so most Rafa fans are expecting tough matches. Expecting the worst is expecting him to lose and by a significant margin. Expecting the worst is expecting him to pick up another career-defining injury. Nobody has said that. What we've said is it will be difficult. And unless he is in peak form and his groundstroke game redlines, it is quite difficult to see him beating Novak. Difficult, but in no way impossible. Nadal NEEDS a difficult match to propel him into form. It has always been this way.

It almost feels like you're undermining the quality of Fritz and Kyrgios when they are two of the most in-form grass players at this moment.

However, having said that, Kyrgios might probably out the tournament as of now.
Click to expand...

I'm not trying to achieve anything, I simply stated that Nadal was nailed on to get to the final and that I don't understand why his biggest supporters want to pretend otherwise. Various people have reacted to that, one who took it as "Nadal isn't the greatest" which was bizarre as I didn't say anything like that, and others like yourself have tried to downplay his chances or talk up his potential opponents, none of whom have ever made a dent on a grand slam.

Why do you take it I didn't watch the matches? Because I disagree with your analysis? How incredibly self-important. Most tennis matches at the top level are decided by small margins, it's part of the sport, and Nadal is famous for winning the points that matter throughout his career, and Kyrgios tends to fall apart at them. A 4 set win is relatively comfortable compared to a 5 set one, as there's a whole extra set of "small margins" that wasn't required to decide it.

Hoping for the worst was clearly a typo, I meant planning for the worst and hoping for the best.

Anyway, all that extra aside, your "if you actually watch him" statement betrays the contradiction I'm talking about. If the player with the most grand slams ever is the best ever, then the player with the most grand slams in a year is the best of that year. Nadal is, objectively, the best player at grand slams this year, despite his foot injury. He might not beat Djokovic, but he'll get to the final without issue.
 
The Hilton said:
I'm not trying to achieve anything, I simply stated that Nadal was nailed on to get to the final and that I don't understand why his biggest supporters want to pretend otherwise. Various people have reacted to that, one who took it as "Nadal isn't the greatest" which was bizarre as I didn't say anything like that, and others like yourself have tried to downplay his chances or talk up his potential opponents, none of whom have ever made a dent on a grand slam.

Why do you take it I didn't watch the matches? Because I disagree with your analysis? How incredibly self-important. Most tennis matches at the top level are decided by small margins, it's part of the sport, and Nadal is famous for winning the points that matter throughout his career, and Kyrgios tends to fall apart at them. A 4 set win is relatively comfortable compared to a 5 set one, as there's a whole extra set of "small margins" that wasn't required to decide it.

Hoping for the worst was clearly a typo, I meant planning for the worst and hoping for the best.

Anyway, all that extra aside, your "if you actually watch him" statement betrays the contradiction I'm talking about. If the player with the most grand slams ever is the best ever, then the player with the most grand slams in a year is the best of that year. Nadal is, objectively, the best player at grand slams this year, despite his foot injury. He might not beat Djokovic, but he'll get to the final without issue.
Click to expand...

Novak had a dream draw and is even more nailed on to get to the final but he's about to go 2 sets down. Tennis may be predictable with the Big 3 but on grass, you can always get a big server who just red lines away and causes an upset. Which is why it doesn't make sense to say Nadal was/is nailed on to reach the final especially given that he has a history of shock results on this court.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.