Tennis 2017

[Enigma_87]

if anything, the fact that Murray can beat Fed and Djokovic (who was probably the best returner around) even with his wta serve says more about his overall game. Roddick just doesn't compare in that regard. he and other servebots can't really surprise players like him, even though they can be very dangerous on faster surfaces when they are in the mood. if not, they are in trouble because their one dimensional game rarely troubles great players and on the clay they look even more hopeless.

Del Potro's serve is comparable to Roddick's and his forehand is better, but Murray handles him quite well and dominates that matchup. if serve and power were everything, it wouldn't be like that, would it?

He can beat them, but usually he doesn't. His record in slams against both of them is 3-13. His only win against Federer is hardly convincing either beating him in 2013 where he had issues with his back during the start of the year.

I agree with a lot of what you say on Roddick. I think he was a good player and in another era would have won Wimbledon for sure. I just don't think he was better than Murray. We'll just have to differ on this one though.

Aye fair play mate. Murray has the slam count to his favor as well, but the way Roddick usually gets dissed is something I can't agree with.

 

[Enigma_87]

I don't see how anyone who watched this match and followed their careers and reaches the conclusion that Nalbandian was a better player than Murray.

Nalbandian on his day could be a terrific player, but Murray had more to his game and peak Murray would beat Nalbandian more often than Nalbandian would beat him. Also peak Nalbandian would not have won more slams than Murray if he was playing in modern era.

Safin is truly top class talent. I would rate him higher than Murray in terms of pure tennis ability.. heck he'd probably even destroy likes of Djokovic at his very very best, he reminds me of Stan the man but with more class to his game, shame he never had the mentality and discipline to be a elite player but again that just proves that Federer did have it easy in the beginning part of his career as he wasn't up against huge competitors like Nadal and Djokovic who have mentalities which stand the test of time and trump even all time greats.

Also think you overrate serve prowess. Guys like Djokovic and Murray do not struggle v big servers, they read the serve so well that they're always in the game. You'll get the odd match where they won't but 8 times out of 10, I'd back them to beat Roddick on any surface.. although Djokovic v Roddick on grass, I'd back Roddick.

Nalbandian sucked at grass mate, he fluked that Wimbey final in a favorable draw, but on hard courts I'd back him to beat Murray more often than not. I said he was more talented and one of the few when in the zone can go toe to toe with peak Federer. Problem with Nalby is he wasn't focused, didn't have the discipline and essentially didn't capitalize on his talent.

When he was focused and in the zone was absolutely terrific player. Take 2007 Madrid MS. Beat Berdych, young Delpo, annihilated Nadal, then #3 Djokovic and Federer in the final. You can't get more impressive run that that.

Wasn't fluke either as he straight setted Federer in Paris next and bagelled Nadal in the final.

Murray beats every one of those when it comes to consistency but if we're measuring peak level and one off match I'd rather have Nalby on hard courts and clay. Murray takes the grass.

On Roddick vs Djokovic they actually played 11 times and Roddick leads 6-5. I don't think Djoko beating him 8 out of 10 is realistic if we go with actual encounters.

 

[Bole Top]

He can beat them, but usually he doesn't.

11-14 vs Fed is excellent record and it's 6-3 for Murray on ATP 1000 tournaments. that's very good, despite their 1-5 record on GS. he was beating him even when Fed was younger. if those was Roddick's stats, somehow I believe you would be looking differently on them.

 

[Enigma_87]

11-14 vs Fed is excellent record and it's 6-3 for Murray on ATP 1000 tournaments. that's very good, despite their 1-5 record on GS. he was beating him even when Fed was younger. if those was Roddick's stats, somehow I believe you would be looking differently on them.

It's a bit odd tbh with Federer losing in masters to Murray. He always looked a bit off in those. When it came to the tournaments it mattered most to him - the tour finals and slams he's 9-2 against him.

Not finding excuses, mind. Murray was good enough to beat him in all those, but it's really peculiar h2h when you break it up.

 

[Zen]

Nalbandian sucked at grass mate

Not really, he was pretty much the same everywhere. A proper all-court mid ranked player really, his percentage on grass is marginal better than clay/hard, but realistically it's all the same....circa 65%. A couple of decent Wimbledon runs(F, QF and a fourth round loss to a peak Henman nothing to suggest sucking) and Stella runs too. Essentially what he had anywhere.....except of course, he had a couple of good matches against Federer which is why people tend to overrate him....but Nalbandian juiced their H2H before Federer was, well you know, Federer.

 

[Enigma_87]

Not really, he was pretty much the same everywhere. A proper all-court mid ranked player really, his percentage on grass is marginal better than clay/hard, but realistically it's all the same....circa 65%. A couple of decent Wimbledon runs(F, QF and a fourth round loss to a peak Henman nothing to suggest sucking) and Stella runs too. Essentially what he had anywhere.....except of course, he had a couple of good matches against Federer which is why people tend to overrate him....but Nalbandian juiced their H2H before Federer was, well you know, Federer.

To me Nalbandian looked less natural on grass than anywhere else. He put some strong displays on clay in Rome and at the RG, while his grass game was a bit off. Obviously very talented everywhere. His Wimbey final was a combination of some early losses in his quarter(Sampras bombed out to Bastl) and favorable opposition in the later stages(Lapentti and Malisse). Both Lapentti and Malisse didn't even remotely could repeat being in the last 8/4 in Wimbey apart from that year.

In the end in terms of talent he's right up there with the best, but overall career didn't turn out to be that good.

The guy was 16 stones at the end of his career.

 

[Zen]

I'm not really bothered about his Wimbledon run, it's not really a sticking point. I just didn't think of him as super talent lost....if the talent was there, especially as a hard court player, he would of made a final at the AO/US, it led to finals and 2 wins....and a better Masters career for Safin for instance. Hell an unseeded Safin knocked Nalbandian out of the US in 2005 or 6, fairly comfortably. Safin should of been sharing the spotlight pre Nadal/Djokovic, but urgh, he was comfortably ahead of Hewitt/Roddick, who are no slouches themselves despite what some might make out about them.....

I think Gasguet and Gulbis would probably even rank higher in the wasted talent ranks than Nalbandian too. Though entirely different reasons really, reasons which are probably likely preventing Kygrios and Tomic moving forward too.

 

[Enigma_87]

I'm not really bothered about his Wimbledon run, it's not really a sticking point. I just didn't think of him as super talent lost....if the talent was there, especially as a hard court player, he would of made a final at the AO/US, it led to finals and 2 wins....and a better Masters career for Safin for instance. Hell an unseeded Safin knocked Nalbandian out of the US in 2005 or 6, fairly comfortably. Safin should of been sharing the spotlight pre Nadal/Djokovic, but urgh, he was comfortably ahead of Hewitt/Roddick, who are no slouches themselves despite what some might make out about them.....

I think Gasguet and Gulbis would probably even rank higher in the wasted talent ranks than Nalbandian too. Though entirely different reasons really, reasons which are probably likely preventing Kygrios and Tomic moving forward too.

Tomic is my least favorite tennis player like ever. Spoilt brat.

Let's hope Kyrgios and Zverev kick it on and create the next big rivalry as there aren't many coming along.

 

[The Man Himself]

Tomic is my least favorite tennis player like ever. Spoilt brat.

Let's hope Kyrgios and Zverev kick it on and create the next big rivalry as there aren't many coming along.

Zverev seems to have the temperament to become great, whether Kyrgios has, remains to be seen and indications till now are negative. Let's see, still very young. Thiem is a future slam winner for sure as well and he is only 23-24. Coric's progress has been stalled somewhat.

 

[wr8_utd]

There's some underrating of Murray on. For me, he's definitely better than Roddick and Hewitt.

 

[wr8_utd]

So Nadal has pulled out of Queens. I'll be pretty surprised if he makes it past the first week at Wimbledon.

 

[Bojan11]

So Nadal has pulled out of Queens. I'll be pretty surprised if he makes it past the first week at Wimbledon.

It's a smart decision. His got a better crack at doing well on the North America hard courts.

Atleast he's not pulling out the grandslam like others do.

I think he can still be decent at Wimbledon this year. Moya has improved his serve which helps on the grass.

 

[wr8_utd]

It's a smart decision. His got a better crack at doing well on the North America hard courts.

Atleast he's not pulling out the grandslam like others do.

I think he can still be decent at Wimbledon this year. Moya has improved his serve which helps on the grass.

I'm all right with whatever the result at Wimbledon tbh. The dream was to win one Slam and he's done it. I don't see him doing well at Wimbledon but yes a deep run at the USO is possible.

 

[Raoul]

So Nadal has pulled out of Queens. I'll be pretty surprised if he makes it past the first week at Wimbledon.

He may fare better at Wimbledon by taking a bit of a rest and just practicing on grass instead of going full whack at Queens.

 

[amolbhatia50k]

Nadal probably won't make the finals at Wimbledon but he could do fairly well. Especially given the form of djokovic and Murray these days which should help both him and Federer. The rest of the field isnt amazing really.

 

[InfiniteBoredom]

Nadal probably won't make the finals at Wimbledon but he could do fairly well. Especially given the form of djokovic and Murray these days which should help both him and Federer. The rest of the field isnt amazing really.

Nah. He's always been uncomfortable on grass following his repeated knee injuries post-08. The likes of Raonic, Kyrgios will dismantle him there.

 

[saivet]

He may fare better at Wimbledon by taking a bit of a rest and just practicing on grass instead of going full whack at Queens.

The Queens draw looked pretty loaded as well, so no easy matches to get into things there.

 

[Giggsy92]

Wouldn't surprise me if he skips Wimbledon too. Would only really make a difference in the race for number one if Federer sweeps Stuttgart, Halle and Wimbledon, which seems very unlikely.

 

[InfiniteBoredom]

Wouldn't surprise me if he skips Wimbledon too. Would only really make a difference in the race for number one if Federer sweeps Stuttgart, Halle and Wimbledon, which seems very unlikely.

How many points does Nadal have to defend post Wimbledon?

 

[Giggsy92]

How many points does Nadal have to defend post Wimbledon?

Hardly any... A 4th round at the US Open and that's about it, he lost early in a few tournaments then skipped everything after Shanghai. More than Federer though of course.

 

[InfiniteBoredom]

Hardly any... A 4th round at the US Open and that's about it, he lost early in a few tournaments then skipped everything after Shanghai. More than Federer though of course.

He'd have to play Wimbledon then I guess. Let's say the real difference now is about 2k. If Fed wins Wimbledon that's already more than 1k, add in small tournaments here and there and the fact that Fed tends to do better in the indoor hardcourt season, its nowhere nailed on for him.

 

[wr8_utd]

Nadal has barely anything to defend post Wimby (included). If he makes it to the second week also at Wimbledon he's gaining good points. He'll also gain a lot in N America

 

[saivet]

I was very close to buying tickets for Queens but the fact that I have only a few days of leave left meant I didn't bother.

May try for the WTFs when tickets become available.

 

[Enigma_87]

He may fare better at Wimbledon by taking a bit of a rest and just practicing on grass instead of going full whack at Queens.

I wouldn't be surprised if he skips it. It's his worst slam out of late and there are plenty of guys that will take him out as soon as the quarters even in his great form as he is now.

Nadal has barely anything to defend post Wimby (included). If he makes it to the second week also at Wimbledon he's gaining good points. He'll also gain a lot in N America

He'll probably skip Canada. I expect Federer to do the same, especially if he makes it deep in Wimbey.

 

[Giggsy92]

He'd have to play Wimbledon then I guess. Let's say the real difference now is about 2k. If Fed wins Wimbledon that's already more than 1k, add in small tournaments here and there and the fact that Fed tends to do better in the indoor hardcourt season, its nowhere nailed on for him.

Federer's schedule for the rest of the year will probably be Stuttgart, Halle, Wimbledon, Cincinnati, USO, Basel and the WTF. If he wins all of those (not going to happen, obviously) he gets 7750 points, and Rafa's already 3000 ahead. So Rafa needs, at most, 4750 from his post-Wimbledon tournaments. For comparison he got around 3000 during the same period in 2015 with pretty bad results (eg. 3R in both Cincinnati and New York).

 

[Enigma_87]

Federer's schedule for the rest of the year will probably be Stuttgart, Halle, Wimbledon, Cincinnati, USO, Basel and the WTF. If he wins all of those (not going to happen, obviously) he gets 7750 points, and Rafa's already 3000 ahead. So Rafa needs, at most, 4750 from his post-Wimbledon tournaments. For comparison he got around 3000 during the same period in 2015 with pretty bad results (eg. 3R in both Cincinnati and New York).

Rafa won't do too well in the latter part of the season IMO. Djokovic will inevitable pick up and Murray I expect to at least get close to his last year form. Combined with Kyrgios dangerous on fast services I wouldn't be surprised if he doesn't win more than 3000 points post Wimbey and included.

 

[InfiniteBoredom]

Federer's schedule for the rest of the year will probably be Stuttgart, Halle, Wimbledon, Cincinnati, USO, Basel and the WTF. If he wins all of those (not going to happen, obviously) he gets 7750 points, and Rafa's already 3000 ahead. So Rafa needs, at most, 4750 from his post-Wimbledon tournaments. For comparison he got around 3000 during the same period in 2015 with pretty bad results (eg. 3R in both Cincinnati and New York).

Nadal is 2500 pts ahead, not 3000. If he skips Wimbledon and Fed wins it, that lead is down to ~ 1.3k pts. Not unimaginable that Fed outperform him by that much during the final stretch of the year.

He has a big advantage, but he cannot afford to miss Wimbledon without seriously risking his position.

 

[Giggsy92]

Nadal is 2500 pts ahead, not 3000. If he skips Wimbledon and Fed wins it, that lead is down to ~ 1.3k pts. Not unimaginable that Fed outperform him by that much during the final stretch of the year.

He has a big advantage, but he cannot afford to miss Wimbledon without seriously risking his position.

It's 6915 vs 4090 (after today). I guess the main difference is you see Federer winning Wimbledon and I don't. Might change my mind if his serve clicks over the next couple of weeks though.

 

[Giggsy92]

Rafa won't do too well in the latter part of the season IMO. Djokovic will inevitable pick up and Murray I expect to at least get close to his last year form. Combined with Kyrgios dangerous on fast services I wouldn't be surprised if he doesn't win more than 3000 points post Wimbey and included.

Don't think there's anything inevitable about Djokovic picking up. Murray I expect to do well during the grass tournaments, then hopefully fairly well after that. Hard to tell how much of Kyrgios' recent form is due to injury and his grandfather passing away, or just because he's not great on clay. Either way I agree there'll be more danger for Rafa than during the past few months but he did well enough on a fast court in Melbourne earlier this year.

 

[InfiniteBoredom]

It's 6915 vs 4090 (after today). I guess the main difference is you see Federer winning Wimbledon and I don't. Might change my mind if his serve clicks over the next couple of weeks though.

He's just back from a long rest, obviously hes a bit rusty. Yet who is his competitors at Wimbledon? Murray obviously, but Fed hasnt had much trouble dispatching him in Slams, Kyrgios, Raonic, Zverev etc... You can never count out Djokovic but he's in a terrible slump.

Last year he made it to the semi with a broken back. If we look into form this season, despite his age he must be considered favourite or at worst 2nd favourite for Wimbledon.

Corrected on the ranking. I checked the live one not the 5 weeks one.

 

[wr8_utd]

I was very close to buying tickets for Queens but the fact that I have only a few days of leave left meant I didn't bother.

May try for the WTFs when tickets become available.

When for that 2 years ago. Did two days back to back so got to watch all of the Big 4 play

It's 6915 vs 4090 (after today). I guess the main difference is you see Federer winning Wimbledon and I don't. Might change my mind if his serve clicks over the next couple of weeks though.

I think Federer has to be favorite for Wimbledon. His serve is giving him plenty of free points and there's no one really there to challenge him.

Nadal is 2500 pts ahead, not 3000. If he skips Wimbledon and Fed wins it, that lead is down to ~ 1.3k pts. Not unimaginable that Fed outperform him by that much during the final stretch of the year.

He has a big advantage, but he cannot afford to miss Wimbledon without seriously risking his position.

I don't think Nadal will be too bothered about his ranking and neither would Fed. They'll schedule themsevles in a way to maximize their Slam returns.

Rafa won't do too well in the latter part of the season IMO. Djokovic will inevitable pick up and Murray I expect to at least get close to his last year form. Combined with Kyrgios dangerous on fast services I wouldn't be surprised if he doesn't win more than 3000 points post Wimbey and included.

Thing is Nadal has nothing to defend from last year so he should do relatively well post Wimbledon but again I don't think he's too bothered about his end of year ranking

I wouldn't be surprised if he skips it. It's his worst slam out of late and there are plenty of guys that will take him out as soon as the quarters even in his great form as he is now.


He'll probably skip Canada. I expect Federer to do the same, especially if he makes it deep in Wimbey.

Nadal won't skip Wimbledon unless injured. He doesn't even retire from matches so he can finish the match off even injured. If he gets a bad draw and has a lot of big hitters I don't see him going too deep but I think he'll play the full N. American circuit for some practice ahead of NY. He played both Masters even before the clay season right now.

 

[Giggsy92]

He's just back from a long rest, obviously hes a bit rusty. Yet who is his competitors at Wimbledon? Murray obviously, but Fed hasnt had much trouble dispatching him in Slams, Kyrgios, Raonic, Zverev etc... You can never count out Djokovic but he's in a terrible slump.

Last year he made it to the semi with a broken back. If we look into form this season, despite his age he must be considered favourite or at worst 2nd favourite for Wimbledon.

Corrected on the ranking. I checked the live one not the 5 weeks one.

Hard to argue with that, I just think going in as favourite does him no favours. One of the reasons he went so well in Australia is because he himself thought the best he could do was the quarters, and a lot of people (myself included) thought he'd go out even earlier than that. Whether finally winning number 18 will have changed his mindset, I don't know... I'd add Cilic and Tsonga to that list, Federer would obviously be the favourite against any of them but there are plenty of potential banana skins.

 

[Enigma_87]

Nadal won't skip Wimbledon unless injured. He doesn't even retire from matches so he can finish the match off even injured. If he gets a bad draw and has a lot of big hitters I don't see him going too deep but I think he'll play the full N. American circuit for some practice ahead of NY. He played both Masters even before the clay season right now.

Yeah, but he's not 20 anymore. If he plays back to back masters before the USO he'll gas out for the indoor season and think he knows that.

 

[saivet]

When for that 2 years ago. Did two days back to back so got to watch all of the Big 4 play

I went to years ago as well, though just for an evening session. Just Federer from the big 4 I'm yet to see live.

 

[Raees]

Wimbledon is one of the most toughest to call for years IMO... Murray played some of his best tennis v Wawrinka and on grass, he'd be close to unbeatable with some of the form he was showing in that match.

Fed will come back all rested. Nadal is clearly very competitive and hungry.. could have been on two slams already this calendar year and he can beat Federer on grass definitely.

The way I see it is if Nadal faces Murray in semi finals, he could lose.. but if he avoids Murray and Federer takes him out, I can see Nadal winning the entire thing.

Djokovic has three wimbo's already which is crazy when you think about it, but the slump he is in.. would be very surprised to see him go all the way but what a story it would be - might finally get the limelight his achievements deserve by winning on grass with such a competitive field.

 

[wr8_utd]

Hard to argue with that, I just think going in as favourite does him no favours. One of the reasons he went so well in Australia is because he himself thought the best he could do was the quarters, and a lot of people (myself included) thought he'd go out even earlier than that. Whether finally winning number 18 will have changed his mindset, I don't know... I'd add Cilic and Tsonga to that list, Federer would obviously be the favourite against any of them but there are plenty of potential banana skins.

Fed has handled expectations nd pressure pretty well through his career. He's still going to easily dispatch off the likes of Cilic imo.

I went to years ago as well, though just for an evening session. Just Federer from the big 4 I'm yet to see live.

I did both the sessions on both days so got to see the entire player practice courts and matches. No good matches but was great fun watching them all. You might not really get to see Novak/Murray this year the way things are going!

Yeah, but he's not 20 anymore. If he plays back to back masters before the USO he'll gas out for the indoor season and think he knows that.

I doubt he even cares about the indoor season other than the WTF. He's awful on the surface anyway. A good USO and he proabably won't care beyond that.

 

[wr8_utd]

Wimbledon is one of the most toughest to call for years IMO... Murray played some of his best tennis v Wawrinka and on grass, he'd be close to unbeatable with some of the form he was showing in that match.

Fed will come back all rested. Nadal is clearly very competitive and hungry.. could have been on two slams already this calendar year and he can beat Federer on grass definitely.

The way I see it is if Nadal faces Murray in semi finals, he could lose.. but if he avoids Murray and Federer takes him out, I can see Nadal winning the entire thing.

Djokovic has three wimbo's already which is crazy when you think about it, but the slump he is in.. would be very surprised to see him go all the way but what a story it would be - might finally get the limelight his achievements deserve by winning on grass with such a competitive field.

Think Fed and Murray will be way higher a level than Nadal and Djoko. Nadal won't be able to dispatch off all the players with their massive serves on grass I think.

 

[saivet]

I did both the sessions on both days so got to see the entire player practice courts and matches. No good matches but was great fun watching them all. You might not really get to see Novak/Murray this year the way things are going!

You do that one your own? My problem with watching tennis is Wimbledon aside I have very few friends willing to or interested in going to see it.

Like I want to go to the USO next year, but think I'll have to drum it up to a few people that it's a holiday to NYC, with the added potential of going to the tennis.

 

[wr8_utd]

You do that one your own? My problem with watching tennis is Wimbledon aside I have very few friends willing to or interested in going to see it.

Like I want to go to the USO next year, but think I'll have to drum it up to a few people that it's a holiday to NYC, with the added potential of going to the tennis.

Yeah I was working in Scotland at that point and came down for the weekend and watched it myself. Couldn't be bothered waiting for friends to turn up and risk missing tickets or them getting really expensive.

 

[saivet]

Yeah I was working in Scotland at that point and came down for the weekend and watched it myself. Couldn't be bothered waiting for friends to turn up and risk missing tickets or them getting really expensive.

Makes sense that. Might do the same for WTF semi final and final tickets as I've just realised I'm on holiday during the week when the RR will be going on.

I did a similar thing last year with RG. My sister was in Paris, so went to visit her but spent a couple of days on my own at RG. Weather was shite and Nadal pulling out during the first week was a big shame, but still enjoyed.