Didn't expect that, but Muller deserves it.
Could use with Nadal dropping points in the ranking tho.
Could use with Nadal dropping points in the ranking tho.
Tennis 2017
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No way. Are they really planning to bring them on? For what, 15 minutes?
Well done Gilles
Dammittttt Rafa.
Well I never.
Incredible effort from Muller, so impressive how he was rattling off those service games in the last set. Got to feel for Rafa but still a lot of positives to take from the tournament for him.
I hope so. Just to feck with him.
Well thats that
Ahh, gutted. All those saved match points too. Muller's serving was just too good today.
I've never really got why people care about autographs, or pictures to be honest.
What a match. Deserved win for Muller there.
No further play tonight - just been announced. Novak tomorrow.
Argh, was away from the tv for a couple of minutes and it got decided. Great for Muller, and for Federer too.
I'm happy for Muller, 34 years old, 17 years on the circuit, has finally beaten a top 5 player. Good lad. I like the perseverance.
No Djokovic tonight, terrible organising, centre court was sitting with it's legs open and they ignore it, playing 2 days in a row is unfair.
No Djokovic tonight, terrible organising, centre court was sitting with it's legs open and they ignore it, playing 2 days in a row is unfair.
Biggest moment in his tennis career so far and he looks as excited as my little finger! Really cool!Muller even stays ice cool after that win!He's a machine.
Ah what, Muller is a top 16 player. I thought he was a nobody who learned to play tennis with a spoon, I wanted tears.
Disappointed.
Disappointed.
What. A. Match.
great matchStars are aligning perfectly for Fed here, retirement in first match, Djoker having to play 2 days in a row, Nadal out, Murray in middling form, Raonic went 5 set once already. If he doesn't win it this year then there's no other year.
Huge props to Muller for that match. Nadal refusing to die and keep coming back and coming back. Incredible composure to hold his serve and wait for the latter to make mistakes.
Huge props to Muller for that match. Nadal refusing to die and keep coming back and coming back. Incredible composure to hold his serve and wait for the latter to make mistakes.
It's not too bad for Djokovic. He plays Berdych who he has beaten 12 times in a row if he makes it through. He's the least dangerous player in the last 8 alongside Muller now.
Muller simply because that match can't have done his body any good so you expect Cillic to beat him.
I didn't really watch after the 3rd set, was watching the new Spiderman movie.
I'm not at all disappointed. Like I'd said before the RG final, I'd take him not winning anything for the rest of the year if he could just get that Slam. Besides, I said it yesterday, this was always going to be a dodgy match for Nadal. He always goes out to guys with big serves and/or shots. If he'd even managed to win, he'd have just lost to Cilic anyway.
Also, getting to the 2nd week is a great result for Rafa at Wimbledon
He's only gained points with this run here so it's not too bad. Not that the ranking really matters at the end of the year, it's all about the titles.
You want me banned because I don't servebots are great players? Sure Muller had a good game today ( I thought he was pretty average when the game actually got into rallies in the 3 sets I watched) but is he anything but a mediocre player? This is his first Top 5 win in 17 years apparently. Nadal loses to players even outside the Top 100 here because they're able to serve well and have the matches of their lives on a particular day.
Maybe our opinions differ but I'll never find players like Roddick brilliant and you don't need to agree with it but I'll always find him and players who can only really serve well pretty average.
PS: I'm not even bitter, disappointed or angry about this loss. I wasn't even expecting him to make it to the second week so I'm pretty okay with this.
Nah, want Federer to get that #1 once again - would be a great comeback and swan song for him and only Nadal seems to be in the race considering Novak and Murray are off the boil at the moment.
He gained only 180 points here, could've been much more. Can't see him winning much more in the indoor season or bettering the USO results.
Just watching the Beeb's highlights show. Mentioned Venus being the oldest woman since Navratilova in 94 to reach the quarter finals.
She has had an amazing career. Can't help but think she'd be thought of in much higher regard were it not for the fact the best player of all time happens to be her little sister.
She has had an amazing career. Can't help but think she'd be thought of in much higher regard were it not for the fact the best player of all time happens to be her little sister.
I don't think Nadal played the two American HC last year and only got to R3 of USO if I"m not wrong. He'll definitely improve on that. He only had 370 points to defend post RG.
Mediocre now? It was garbage earlier! Maybe if you did get the threadban for a tournament you'd actually learn to not be so bitter and belittling. However much you may dislike serve and volley, it's a style of play that takes a lot practice, determination and well skill. As does any aspect of the game, and no despite you're assumptions, that doesn't mean I prefer it....I'm just open minded enough to appreciate all sorts.
Let's be real here, the absolute only reason you dislike it so much is because it's a weakness for Nadal, you probably don't groan to yourself when he changes up and plays well using serve and volley tactics.
He got to the 4th at the USO and only missed Toronto and Paris. Fed has zero to defend post Wimbey but has to gain 2000 points on him.
And Fed has none.
Like you though I'm not fussed. A few months more as No.1 won't really make much of a difference for him. If he wins Wimbledon that's already the greatest comeback story ever, double Slam holder at the age of 36.
#1 is the cherry on top however
Not only winning big titles but having the consistency to be the best player in the field at 36.Well let's just win Wimbey first. He's improving but still has a big error in him somewhere. Shouldn't have dropped a service game against Mischa and Grigor.#1 is the cherry on top however
Yeah I have never gotten the fuss over the #1 ranking and even more so because I find the defending points system a really foolish method of deciding points and ranking.
I am pretty sure I remember reading post the RG final that Nadal has 370 and Federer has around 400 odd to defend post May? I could be wrong but I think that's what I'd read.
If you want me threadbanned, go for it. It won't really affect me in anyway but like I said, I'm not bitter about the loss. I'm used to Nadal losing at Wimbledon to all sorts of big hitters and I'd said before the match also I see this as a potential slip up. Maybe calling him "garbage" was a bit of heat of the moment harshness but I won't be shocked if he goes and loses the very next game. It always happens with Nadal's conquerors at Wimbledon.
I don't rate players like Roddick, Raonic and all your servebots and never will. Federer has a huge serve but he has an amazing game to go with it as well. The others are pretty useless imo and well that's an opinion that won't even change with a thread ban
Probably because Nadal is always #2
#1 is and always has been prestigious and great achievement. It gives you a more accurate view on who is better than his peers and the whole field. For example Rafa can sweep all the clay courts in the beginning of the season, but due to that ranking being 52 weeks he'd rarely become #1 as Federer and Djokovic always performed better than him across the season.Federer has only a Wimbey SF to defend, then he skipped the whole year. Rafa pulled out of Canada, Paris and the WTF. He lost early in Cincy and Shanghai. I expect him to pull out of one of the American HC masters otherwise he might gas out for the USO.
If you want me threadbanned, go for it. It won't really affect me in anyway but like I said, I'm not bitter about the loss. I'm used to Nadal losing at Wimbledon to all sorts of big hitters and I'd said before the match also I see this as a potential slip up. Maybe calling him "garbage" was a bit of heat of the moment harshness but I won't be shocked if he goes and loses the very next game. It always happens with Nadal's conquerors at Wimbledon.
I don't rate players like Roddick, Raonic and all your servebots and never will. Federer has a huge serve but he has an amazing game to go with it as well. The others are pretty useless imo and well that's an opinion that won't even change with a thread ban
You can't compare someone like Raonic, Muller with Roddick. I love it when lot of guys shit on him and label him as a servebot. Interestingly enough a player that has only a serve has managed to win one slam title, make it to 4 other finals and 4 SF at the AO where the conditions doesn't exactly reward servebots. Not to mention numerous titles, being #1 in the world, having positive h2h with guys like Djokovic, Safin, Sampras, tied with Hewitt and so forth. But yeah compare him to a guy who a 31 nearly retired Roddick beat in 2011.
For the record Muller is a journeyman, but he's better than the last journeymen Nadal lost to since 2012 like Darcis, Rosol and Brown - who rarely even make it to the main draw in masters.
Not liking them would be an opinion. Saying they are garbage or useless etc is just being wrong and silly. Know the difference.
I'd also say based on today, Muller has a ton more to his game than Karlovic and Isner, but probably not Roanic who is advancing slowly from being a pure server. I'm not entirely sure why you throw Roddick in there, might as well just toss Sampras, Becker, Rafter and Goran in too, let's ignore the fact people had anything after a big serve unless it's amazing like Federer eh? Roddick had a pretty strong game outside of his serve, don't let one slam or ace number change that, getting to the second week of a slam consistently as courts slowed down proved that.
I'd say Muller is a lower tiered power hitter - which has been Nadal's weakness since Tsonga crushed him at the AO.
I'd also say based on today, Muller has a ton more to his game than Karlovic and Isner, but probably not Roanic who is advancing slowly from being a pure server. I'm not entirely sure why you throw Roddick in there, might as well just toss Sampras, Becker, Rafter and Goran in too, let's ignore the fact people had anything after a big serve unless it's amazing like Federer eh? Roddick had a pretty strong game outside of his serve, don't let one slam or ace number change that, getting to the second week of a slam consistently as courts slowed down proved that.
I'd say Muller is a lower tiered power hitter - which has been Nadal's weakness since Tsonga crushed him at the AO.
Labeling Muller as a servebot is really lazy.
Here are the match stats on serve:
Same average speed on 1st and 2nd. Nearly the same top speed clocked on first serve. Muller also had 7 aces more than Nadal, which is not crazy by any means.
Just as a comparison at the AO Federer aced Nadal 20 times whilst the latter did it only 4.
Just because Muller is tall doesn't mean he's serve bot..
Probably because Nadal is always #2
Federer has only a Wimbey SF to defend, then he skipped the whole year. Rafa pulled out of Canada, Paris and the WTF. He lost early in Cincy and Shanghai. I expect him to pull out of one of the American HC masters otherwise he might gas out for the USO.
You can't compare someone like Raonic, Muller with Roddick. I love it when lot of guys shit on him and label him as a servebot. Interestingly enough a player that has only a serve has managed to win one slam title, make it to 4 other finals and 4 SF at the AO where the conditions doesn't exactly reward servebots. Not to mention numerous titles, being #1 in the world, having positive h2h with guys like Djokovic, Safin, Sampras, tied with Hewitt and so forth. But yeah compare him to a guy who a 31 nearly retired Roddick beat in 2011.
For the record Muller is a journeyman, but he's better than the last journeymen Nadal lost to since 2012 like Darcis, Rosol and Brown - who rarely even make it to the main draw in masters.
Nah, rankings really don't mean much to me. Nadal is right in the battle for the #1 right now and I genuinely couldn't care less if he ends the season 1 2 or 4th. I'm already satisfied with his season and if he does well at USO it's going to be a big bonus. He's been the best/second best player on tour this season and just seeing him compete is enough for me. I'd rather he have more Slams than weeks at #1.
As for Nadal pulling out of the 2 pre USO hard courts, I'm not sure he will. He didn't play any warmup grass tournaments and he's just played 4 matches at Wimbledon. He's more likely to skip a lot of the indoor tournaments later on where he's rubbish anyway.
Players like Roddick, Raonic or whoever these huge servers are, they'll never really be worthy of like or dislike. They're not important enough to like or not so yes my opinion still stands they're rather average (since garbage is a bit harsh).
As for today's game, I didn't see after halfway through Set 3 as I was in a movie but I found the standard of his play pretty ordinary till then. Nadal essentially had 2 slightly poor service games and those cost him the two sets and his reading of Muller's serve was awful.
As for Muller, like I said, he's been on tour for 17 years and this is his first win against a Top 5 opponent. He's clearly a pretty average player who had his big day against Rafa at Wimbledon like many have in the past and many will even in the future. I throw Roddick in with these games because I always found his game extremely limited and as a "number 2" his record against his big rival was just embarrassing. Maybe the age of actual top quality Number 2's like Novak, Murray and Nadal makes me look down at his lack of an all around game but again that's my opinion on him and his fellow big servers.
As for Raonic, yeah he did seem to improve his game a bit last year, I'll agree on that bit. However till he consistently adds something to his game other than just big serves and the occasional on target monster forehands, he won't be much better a player than a Berdych.
My two favorites have been Agassi and Nadal. Maybe I just have a subconscious bias against huge servers but I just will always find a lot of them very one dimensional.
I rate the #1 a lot and I'm sure all the pro's do, especially in an era where two players dominate the field. Think it's pretty good median to show who is in overall the better player in the current field and probably very accurate too. Slams of course are the best indicator but weeks #1 and also YET should be rated pretty high as well.
On Muller I think you are hugely underrating his game. He's not a top player, far from it - pretty average in fact, but he has a lot to his game than a serve bot would suggest. Even today he stayed with Rafa in most of the rallies and offered some great shots off both wings. A serve bot is what I'd call Karlovic and Lopez who will slice all day and go for the net due to not having a ground game to stay in the rallies. Muller is not such a player. Most of the time he went to the net he was invited by Nadal returning from outside the stadium.
It's not that Muller is particularly great player but Nadal has to step up and return much closer to the baseline in matches like this. Compare it to the Fed match - he pushed Dimitrov on serve every time he got his racket on. Thus inviting pressure and a lot of DF's as well as making him go for variation in his serve, which also causes errors.
Nadal returned deep as he used to do in his last several years where he exited early.
Muller was serving well. I think a lot of the top players would have struggled to read his serve today. At the end of the day Nadal could have come forward or stay backwards but it wouldn't have made a difference. Sometimes you gotta say well done to the other guy. Federer had a totally different opponent. Probably the perfect opponent in Dimitrov because Dimitrov is basically a poor version of Federer. Where as if he actually played Muller, I think he'd probably have beaten him on tiebreaks. There's very little you can do when a Karlovic, Muller or Isner are serving well besides serve well yourself and hope you win the first set by tie break.
The only good thing for the other players is that Nadal has taken a lot out of Muller. He's not gonna have much left against Cillic.
The only good thing for the other players is that Nadal has taken a lot out of Muller. He's not gonna have much left against Cillic.
Also not average, YOU just don't LIKE them. Learn the difference, I didn't read the rest of your response. I'd happily give you Karlo, Isner or even Muller as average in terms of pro tennis, but when you start calling Roanic average...it's just not correct, forget Roddick - 1 Win, 5 finals, endless more SF/QF's...just odd. But whatever, be insanely bias, but I can't see how you can enjoy the game that way.
I don't agree with this. Muller served well but it's not like he was clocking 120 mph on every single first serve. 30 aces over a 5 hours 5 setter is nothing crazy either. If you want an example of that kind, look to the Kyrgios-Nadal match where the former hit near 50 aces over 3 set.
I don't think Muller played any better than Mischa and Fed quite comfortably beat the latter, albeit with a slight hiccup. It's just a case of Nadal refusing to step out of his comfort zone and get punished for it, as has been the case in recent years. You cant stay two meters from baseline all day and expect to go far in this tournament, slow as it might be nowadays.
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