[PepsiCola]

The selection of Chong was a positive, don't try to make it into a negative thing. If there was forced change them maybe he would have gotten a chance, but the manager trusted his first XI to do the job. Why is it so hard to understand that he thought there was a better chance of getting something from the game with the players who were on the pitch?

Because there was clearly nothing coming from the forwards on the pitch.

Are you really struggling to see why people are annoyed with his attitude?

 

[Jojo <3 Mou]

Because there was clearly nothing coming from the forwards on the pitch.

Are you really struggling to see why people are annoyed with his attitude?

I am. Are you really expecting 18 year old Chong with no first team appearance to come on against Juventus and do a better job than Martial, Rashford, Mata or Lukaku? Are you for real? What would he have changed? What could he have offered more than any of the guys on the pitch? Against Alex Sandro?

 

[lysglimt]

I am. Are you really expecting 18 year old Chong with no first team appearance to come on against Juventus and do a better job than Martial, Rashford, Mata or Lukaku? Are you for real? What would he have changed? What could he have offered more than any of the guys on the pitch? Against Alex Sandro?

Jaden Sancho is half a year younger - he seems to be doing ok against decent opposition.

 

[deafepl]

LVG has thrown out Rashford in games against Arsenal. Moye has thrown out Janauaj and SAF threw out Macheda that won us the league. Jose? Choose Chong on the bench because we don't have attacking options on the bench and chasing goal after down a goal and haven't made sub so he openly throwing him out under bus that he has no intention of using him and cries that we need Fellaini to change the games. It's really pathetic, if Moye, LVG or SAF didn't make a sub, they would come out like, it's wonderful for young players to get an experience of the first team and on the bench in big games against Juve.

 

[Jojo <3 Mou]

Jaden Sancho is half a year younger - he seems to be doing ok against decent opposition.

18 yr old Sancho with NO first team appearance and definitely NOT a first team member!

BTW, Sancho is actually 3/4 months younger than Chong. Additionally Chong spent almost a year out with a major injury. I'm thinking that these things affect development.

 

[zizi]

I can. Their might be no harm to Chong but definitely to a team that loses 0-4 and has to face the same opposition away next week. The chances of him actually making a positive contribution would not have outweighed this risk.

That is exactly the mentality why he shouldn't be our manager. Sure 9 out of 10 times it wont work and we may even concede a goal or two more. But the 1 in 10 time where he has a magical moment could get us a goal. Not daring to go for a result because you're scared we may lose by a bigger margin is incredibly negative, not to mention insulting to the fans. To be honest, seeing Chong come on would have been the most exciting thing to take from that match after the farce we saw.

 

[Adisa]

The selection of Chong was a positive, don't try to make it into a negative thing. If there was forced change them maybe he would have gotten a chance, but the manager trusted his first XI to do the job. Why is it so hard to understand that he thought there was a better chance of getting something from the game with the players who were on the pitch?

Don't know when I painted his inclusion as a negative.
He wouldn't have been the first prefessional debutant in a close game.

 

[PepsiCola]

That is exactly the mentality why he shouldn't be our manager. Sure 9 out of 10 times it wont work and we may even concede a goal or two more. But the 1 in 10 time where he has a magical moment could get us a goal. Not daring to go for a result because you're scared we may lose by a bigger margin is incredibly negative, not to mention insulting to the fans. To be honest, seeing Chong come on would have been the most exciting thing to take from that match after the farce we saw.

Exactly this.

 

[SteveW]

I like Chong but he was there in case of injury. Without an injury bringing him on would have made no sense whatsoever. He's lightweight and has zero experience at that level. Martial, Lukaku and Rashford are established players who have already achieved a lot in football. It was too important a game to experiment with kids when we had proven players on the field.

 

[zizi]

I like Chong but he was there in case of injury. Without an injury bringing him on would have made no sense whatsoever. He's lightweight and has zero experience at that level. Martial, Lukaku and Rashford are established players who have already achieved a lot in football. It was too important a game to experiment with kids when we had proven players on the field.

Except those proven players were failing. So instead of doing something, anything, to change that, he does nothing. What was the down side to putting Chong on in the 85th minute? Lose a match we were already losing.

 

[Utdstar01]

I like Chong but he was there in case of injury. Without an injury bringing him on would have made no sense whatsoever. He's lightweight and has zero experience at that level. Martial, Lukaku and Rashford are established players who have already achieved a lot in football. It was too important a game to experiment with kids when we had proven players on the field.

Are they? Not really looking proven at the moment. It doesn't really matter whether they're established or not because clearly we weren't getting any joy out of what was on the pitch and changes should've been made.

 

[pocco]

I think Chong could have had a Macheda moment at best, to expect anything more is daft at that level. If you're looking at probabilities, at the 70/80 minute mark, the attackers on the pitch were still more likely to produce something imo. We also had a decent foothold at that point, to make a change and bring on an inexperienced youngster might have loosened our grip on the game.

 

[PepsiCola]

It just goes to further prove the man was never right for the club.

Goes against too many values and hasn't been worth selling our souls, so to speak.

 

[Adisa]

Anyway, hope we see him and Gomes soon.

 

[Kostov]

That infuriated me much more than the shit about coming second to Juventus he spouted. Football has more romance than that Jose, go feck yourself. I’m off to seeing that Macheda goal for the hundredth time today.

 

[cyberman]

Has a United youngster ever made his debut v arguably the best side in Europe?

 

[Kostov]

I am. Are you really expecting 18 year old Chong with no first team appearance to come on against Juventus and do a better job than Martial, Rashford, Mata or Lukaku? Are you for real? What would he have changed? What could he have offered more than any of the guys on the pitch? Against Alex Sandro?

Why the feck not? Is that so big of a feet at the moment?

 

[Kostov]

I think Chong could have had a Macheda moment at best, to expect anything more is daft at that level. If you're looking at probabilities, at the 70/80 minute mark, the attackers on the pitch were still more likely to produce something imo. We also had a decent foothold at that point, to make a change and bring on an inexperienced youngster might have loosened our grip on the game.

Really? We were hopeless, nothing was coming of that bunch. The game cried for a change by minute 50. Lukaku was pathetic, Mata hopeless and Rashford nowhere to be found. We would have lost nothing by bringing in Chong.

 

[SteveW]

Except those proven players were failing. So instead of doing something, anything, to change that, he does nothing. What was the down side to putting Chong on in the 85th minute? Lose a match we were already losing.

Are they? Not really looking proven at the moment. It doesn't really matter whether they're established or not because clearly we weren't getting any joy out of what was on the pitch and changes should've been made.

Obviously he thought those players were more likely to score or create an equaliser than Chong. Which makes sense because they are currently much better players than him and they are experienced at that level. It's fecking obvious.

You're just annoyed because you didn't get to see the new shiny young player. If you want to watch him watch the reserves and under 19s. It was an important match, you cant just give up after 85 minutes and start weakening the team for a bit of fun and excitment. What do you really think he would have done in 5 minutes that Rashford or Martial couldn't have done.

As I said, I like Chong. Once he puts some meat on his bones he'll be a good player. Right now a breath of wind would knock him over. So have a bit of patience ffs.

 

[SteveW]

Anyway, hope we see him and Gomes soon.

You won't. Right now they aren't as good as a number of players who can't get into the team themselves. You'll have to wait for them to be good enough.

 

[snk123]

Has a United youngster ever made his debut v arguably the best side in Europe?

How is Juventus ahead of Barcelona or Madrid? or any other top european team? How do you make that distinction considering Juventus haven't won a CL in years?

 

[Litch]

Based completely on hindsight. In the moment there was loads to lose. Martial and Rashford are easily better atm and have both come up big for us in the past. You can't say there is nothing to lose when in the moment for all we knew Martial could have popped up with another late goal. Then you'd have the same people crying why Martial or whoever was taken off for a kid with zero experience when we desperately needed a goal.

If he's on the bench then he should be able to come on in the most pressurized situation possible is terrible logic as well.

Thought most of the comments on here are normally after the fact? Under normal circumstances, the person coming on is usually a lesser player than the one coming off so 'better' isn't in the equation. I honestly even in hindsight I think people would have preferred to have rolled the dice than doing nothing at all....

For me Utd is about 'daring to dream' and not called the Theatre of them for no reason. It's these moments that can kickstart something special and love the headlines of CR7 on the same pitch as potentially a young Utd winger just starting out New and the Old.....but maybe Im just a dreamer.

 

[Adisa]

You won't. Right now they aren't as good as a number of players who can't get into the team themselves. You'll have to wait for them to be good enough.

Wouldn't we be able to judge if they are better than the options ahead of them only after they have had the opportunity to play?

 

[Utdstar01]

Obviously he thought those players were more likely to score or create an equaliser than Chong. Which makes sense because they are currently much better players than him and they are experienced at that level. It's fecking obvious.

You're just annoyed because you didn't get to see the new shiny young player. If you want to watch him watch the reserves and under 19s. It was an important match, you cant just give up after 85 minutes and start weakening the team for a bit of fun and excitment. What do you really think he would have done in 5 minutes that Rashford or Martial couldn't have done.

As I said, I like Chong. Once he puts some meat on his bones he'll be a good player. Right now a breath of wind would knock him over. So have a bit of patience ffs.

Sounds like Jose had half given up before the game had begun going off of his comments. Clearly whatever we were doing on the pitch wasn't working, he probably wouldn't have done much worse than Rashford or Lukaku. We didn't make any changes at all which was just odd.

 

[SteveW]

Wouldn't we be able to judge if they are better than the options ahead of them only after they have had the opportunity to play?

Or just watch them play for the reserves and u19s.

We're out of the league cup, we're 10th in the league with top 4 looking less and less likely, we're hanging by a thread in the CL. The team is playing like crap and under extreme pressure and scrutiny every time they play. Which games would you suggest we use Gomes and Chong in?

 

[SteveW]

You think he was planning to be 1 down and chasing the game? Would you rather he did a Pep and just had 6 players on the bench?

It does hurt because it does Chong no good to be given that pressure and he'd have likely barely touched the ball and been bullied. It'd have done the team no good either because when the chips are down Martial, Rashford, Mata etc. have the experience of getting late important goals.

There is pretty much no manager who thinks massive Champions League game down 1 to a team better than us, feck it lets throw in the 18 year old twig and give him the pressure of getting a goal back. Fantastic management that would be.

Bit of common sense in a thread where's it's been sorely lacking.

 

[Grahampa]

I think Chong could have had a Macheda moment at best, to expect anything more is daft at that level.

You're expecting more than a practically PL winning goal out of nowhere like magic? That could have happened, and I have no doubt the kid will do better than Federico, but that was against Aston Villa. Juve defence would have knocked him into row 7.

 

[Adisa]

Or just watch them play for the reserves and u19s.

We're out of the league cup, we're 10th in the league with top 4 looking less and less likely, we're hanging by a thread in the CL. The team is playing like crap and under extreme pressure and scrutiny every time they play. Which games would you suggest we use Gomes and Chong in?

I don't get the need for all this debate. I said I hope we see them soon. I'm not asking for them to replace anyone. For all we know we could be cruising in any of the next few games. If any of them are in the squad, can't see why they can't get a few minutes.

 

[el3mel]

Obviously he thought those players were more likely to score or create an equaliser than Chong. Which makes sense because they are currently much better players than him and they are experienced at that level. It's fecking obvious.

You're just annoyed because you didn't get to see the new shiny young player. If you want to watch him watch the reserves and under 19s. It was an important match, you cant just give up after 85 minutes and start weakening the team for a bit of fun and excitment. What do you really think he would have done in 5 minutes that Rashford or Martial couldn't have done.

As I said, I like Chong. Once he puts some meat on his bones he'll be a good player. Right now a breath of wind would knock him over. So have a bit of patience ffs.

People are just desperate imo. The rational behind throwing Chong in this game all lies in "he's not going to be any worse than the rest" rather than having a reasonable opinion of throwing an 18 years old kid against Juve while losing 1-0.

 

[pocco]

Really? We were hopeless, nothing was coming of that bunch. The game cried for a change by minute 50. Lukaku was pathetic, Mata hopeless and Rashford nowhere to be found. We would have lost nothing by bringing in Chong.

Imo yes. I'm sure the betting odds would have reflected that. How often have these players been shite but scored a goal. Martial until his first Vs Chelsea was just as bad, he ended up with 2 goals. Lukaku is anonymous all the time and, until recently, scores goals on the regular. I still feel they were more likely. Chong would have been a roll of the dice which we may have took if we weren't in control of the game towards the end. Like I mentioned, I don't think Jose wanted to tinker too much whilst we were on top, even if they had dealt with everything with relative ease. All we needed was a lucky deflection or a mistake.

 

[cyberman]

How is Juventus ahead of Barcelona or Madrid? or any other top european team? How do you make that distinction considering Juventus haven't won a CL in years?

They're better than both Spanish sides this year, better than Barca have been for quite a while in fact.

 

[SteveW]

I don't get the need for all this debate. I said I hope we see them soon. I'm not asking for them to replace anyone. For all we know we could be cruising in any of the next few games. If any of them are in the squad, can't see why they can't get a few minutes.

Don't get your hopes up. He's not going to waste squad places on players he doesn't think he might need. Once the injuries clear up you wont see Chong or Gomes.

I think they won't rush either player to be honest. Chong is probably good enough for a loan but physically they probably feel he's not ready. Maybe in the new year or next season he'll go out and get some experience. Not sure about Gomes. He's well down the pecking order here so his best bet will also most likely be a loan deal.

 

[Kostov]

Imo yes. I'm sure the betting odds would have reflected that. How often have these players been shite but scored a goal. Martial until his first Vs Chelsea was just as bad, he ended up with 2 goals. Lukaku is anonymous all the time and, until recently, scores goals on the regular. I still feel they were more likely. Chong would have been a roll of the dice which we may have took if we weren't in control of the game towards the end. Like I mentioned, I don't think Jose wanted to tinker too much whilst we were on top, even if they had dealt with everything with relative ease. All we needed was a lucky deflection or a mistake.

I think you are painting the wrong picture. The Chelsea game was different, we were nowhere near outplayed like against Juve. And to answer your question, not often enough have they scored goals while being shit. Most cases they are shit and disappear in their act. Lukaku has never been this bad for us, he is shot of confidence, Mata is Mata and Rashford has been appalling so often as was the case on Tuesday. You can feel if something happens in this team it’s either Pogba or Martial recently.

We were never on top, nothing. The game cried for a change, even a 18 year old debutant would have been something rather than surrendering the game in minute 60.

 

[Heista]

Play the lad for 10 or 5 minutes. There is not much to lose.
He himself would be gratefull for the chance. Even if he wouldnt be able to do anything, he gets to know what is expected of him to have an impact. Noone would blame him if he wouldn't create something. The crowd would be happy that a youngster got a chance. Mourinho would be somewhat praised for using a youngster and he can prove a point, whatever floats his boat.

Now we have a youngster who is looking at crappy play and notices no sub. He might feel a bit underappreciated.
If you put him in the squad, be willing to play him. Now you say to him: We have injured players, so you get a chance. Your chance is if there's 3 more players coming off injured, I might make use of you (if the scoreline permits).

There's much to say about LvG, but he would have played the lad in a moment where he can make an impact. And Mourinho typically will not.

 

[SteveW]

Sounds like half the people on here had given up on the game by the last 20 minutes. I'm no fan of Jose or the job he's doing but i'm glad he at least took it seriously enough to keep his best players on the pitch to the end. We were 1-0 down We need every point we can get. It was not the time to be blooding youth players.

 

[PepsiCola]

Sounds like half the people on here had given up on the game by the last 20 minutes. I'm no fan of Jose or the job he's doing but i'm glad he at least took it seriously enough to keep his best players on the pitch to the end. We were 1-0 down We need every point we can get. It was not the time to be blooding youth players.

Its not about blooding youth.

Its about recognising whats happening on the pitch isn't working and we needed to try something new.

 

[Ashley R1+O]

You think he was planning to be 1 down and chasing the game? Would you rather he did a Pep and just had 6 players on the bench?

It does hurt because it does Chong no good to be given that pressure and he'd have likely barely touched the ball and been bullied. It'd have done the team no good either because when the chips are down Martial, Rashford, Mata etc. have the experience of getting late important goals.

There is pretty much no manager who thinks massive Champions League game down 1 to a team better than us, feck it lets throw in the 18 year old twig and give him the pressure of getting a goal back. Fantastic management that would be.

God, just let the moaners moan. Why even bother trying to come up with an explanation for the outpouring of drivel?

He brings him on, he looks like todge and then people yell "WHY DID HE BRING HIM ON, HIS CONFIDENCE WILL BE GONE NOW". Best just leave it be and let people embarrass themselves in peace.

 

[Shiva87]

Obviously he thought those players were more likely to score or create an equaliser than Chong. Which makes sense because they are currently much better players than him and they are experienced at that level. It's fecking obvious.

You're just annoyed because you didn't get to see the new shiny young player. If you want to watch him watch the reserves and under 19s. It was an important match, you cant just give up after 85 minutes and start weakening the team for a bit of fun and excitment. What do you really think he would have done in 5 minutes that Rashford or Martial couldn't have done.

As I said, I like Chong. Once he puts some meat on his bones he'll be a good player. Right now a breath of wind would knock him over. So have a bit of patience ffs.

Isn't football supposed to provide a "bit of fun and excitement"?

I'm not fussed about Jose not making any changes - but given how Lukaku was playing, it would not have been such a bad thing to replace him with Chong and get Rashford up top.

If Chong did something good, it would have been a lift for the entire team/ fan base. If not, it wouldn't have made any difference anyway.

 

[FootyGirl88]

He won't play with Jose here - He didn't even have him on the bench against Derby.

 

[Crashoutcassius]

Except those proven players were failing. So instead of doing something, anything, to change that, he does nothing. What was the down side to putting Chong on in the 85th minute? Lose a match we were already losing.

We might have scored with the players in the pitch. Just because we didn't doesn't mean we couldn't lol