T20 Auction draft - Rd 1 - MJJ vs Anant

Who would win with conditions in mind?

  • Total voters
    32
  • Poll closed .
MJJ said:
First season before people figured out his action. Is such a shit bowler.
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1. Aren't we talking about career peaks? (The argument you used in Ajmal vs Ashwin is we aren't talking of right now)
2. I have the international stats to prove that that wasn't the case. His T20I economy was 7.22 till 31Dec 2008, has changed to 7.26 (It was 7.1 till 31Dec 2008), But his Wicket taking ability has improved. His International B/S/R is 22.4. After 1 Jan 2009 it has been 22.0, before 1 JAn2009, it was 24.0.
3. Most bowlers lose their mystery. Mendis is one, Herath another one. But you need to remember how good these were at their peak. And Tanvir still holds the best bowling figures on Asian soil in T20s (as per Wiki)
 
anant said:
1. Aren't we talking about career peaks? (The argument you used in Ajmal vs Ashwin is we aren't talking of right now)
2. I have the international stats to prove that that wasn't the case. His T20I economy was 7.22 till 31Dec 2008, has changed to 7.26 (It was 7.1 till 31Dec 2008), But his Wicket taking ability has improved. His International B/S/R is 22.4. After 1 Jan 2009 it has been 22.0, before 1 JAn2009, it was 24.0.
3. Most bowlers lose their mystery. Mendis is one, Herath another one. But you need to remember how good these were at their peak. And Tanvir still holds the best bowling figures on Asian soil in T20s (as per Wiki)
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1.Yeah and his bowling action got figured out pretty soon,within a year or two of his debut he was dropped.
2.Check the teams he played against. Exclude the shitty sides and its not an improvement.
3.If someone had mendis, I would also count it against him. There is a difference between being found out due to players figuring your game and being past your peak.
 
MJJ said:
Ajmal,Gayle,Malik and Hussey> Ashwin,Jadeja,Morkel and Tanvir on spin friendly wickets.

How often can you consistently bowl yorkers? Tanvir certainly cant.
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3 genuine bowlers vs 3 part timers?
You know the importance of depth overs in 20/20, Last 4 overs is crucial,we got 2 bowler's who can bowl consistence yorkers at depth where you don't have any.
 
MJJ said:
Ajmal,Gayle,Malik and Hussey> Ashwin,Jadeja,Morkel and Tanvir on spin friendly wickets.

How often can you consistently bowl yorkers? Tanvir certainly cant.
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Leaving aside that the statement is ridiculously wrong, these 4 are bowling 16 overs? Because if yes, I am sure I'll be getting 170-180 on a pitch where 140 is enough. 12 overs by part timers?



Go to 1:14 and then 2:26
Go to 2:12
 
Mani said:
3 genuine bowlers vs 3 part timers?
You know the importance of depth overs in 20/20, Last 4 overs is crucial,we got 2 bowler's who can bowl consistence yorkers at depth where you don't have any.
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These two are? Watch how often the fast bowlers get destroyed near the end, you need spinners who can take the pace of the game. Playing Tanvir and Morkel is a very bad strategy here, there is a reason why I dropped broad.
 
anant said:
Leaving aside that the statement is ridiculously wrong, these 4 are bowling 16 overs? Because if yes, I am sure I'll be getting 170-180 on a pitch where 140 is enough. 12 overs by part timers?



Go to 1:14 and then 2:26
Go to 2:12
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What year is that ;)

You think 140 is enough on an Indian(Asian) Pitch? :lol:
 
MJJ said:
Watch how often the fast bowlers get destroyed near the end, you need spinners who can take the pace of the game.
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That's a ridiculous argument. Spinners are way more likely to go for runs at the end than someone who can bowl yorkers.
 
MJJ said:
1.Yeah and his bowling action got figured out pretty soon,within a year or two of his debut he was dropped.
2.Check the teams he played against. Exclude the shitty sides and its not an improvement.
3.If someone had mendis, I would also count it against him. There is a difference between being found out due to players figuring your game and being past your peak.
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So if we are talking of peak, how does it matter till when he was effective. Its like Ajmal got figured out as well- he chucked!
And he played from 2007 to 2015. He played Eng, Lanka, BAngladesh last year
 
MJJ said:
These two are? Watch how often the fast bowlers get destroyed near the end, you need spinners who can take the pace of the game. Playing Tanvir and Morkel is a very bad strategy here, there is a reason why I dropped broad.
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Starc and Tanvir
Yorker vs Spin, which one thrive at end? you tell me
 
anant said:
So if we are talking of peak, how does it matter till when he was effective. Its like Ajmal got figured out as well- he chucked!
And he played from 2007 to 2015. He played Eng, Lanka, BAngladesh last year
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Thats different, Ajmal with the same bowling action never got figured out. Its like judging a 37 year old dhoni vs a 25 year old dhoni. The 25 year one is his peak. Here you have a bowler who only had the surprise element.

Aldo said:
That's a ridiculous argument. Spinners are way more likely to go for runs at the end than someone who can bowl yorkers.
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Not really, almost all the team rely on spinners near the end on batting friendly pitches to take the pace out of the game, specially in T20s.
 
MJJ said:
These two are? Watch how often the fast bowlers get destroyed near the end, you need spinners who can take the pace of the game. Playing Tanvir and Morkel is a very bad strategy here, there is a reason why I dropped broad.
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No one uses Morkel in death overs. His bowling overs will be similar to kallis' in t20s. And which spinner bowls in last 2-3 overs of an innings?

MJJ said:
What year is that ;)

You think 140 is enough on an Indian(Asian) Pitch? :lol:
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I'd say his peak years :drool:
I meant in 140s region. ANd how many times this WC has 140s type of score been enough on these spinning tracks! Hint: its a lot. Look at every NZ game! Ind vs Bangladesh was pretty tough batting wise, SA vs SL, SA vs WI, Eng vs Afg, etc.
On a spinning pitch 140-150 is a pretty decent score especially when opposition batting runs till 1 down and you have world's best spinner and Jadeja
 
MJJ said:
Thats different, Ajmal with the same bowling action never got figured out. Its like judging a 37 year old dhoni vs a 25 year old dhoni. The 25 year one is his peak. Here you have a bowler who only had the surprise element.

Not really, almost all the team rely on spinners near the end on batting friendly pitches to take the pace out of the game, specially in T20s.
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So, we judge a chucker by his peak, but someone with mystery action on his career?

And Spinning tracks arent batsman friendly and despite this, no team uses a spinner that late!

EDIT: Just checked Ind vs NZ commentary:
In NZ's innings- last 5 overs 2 were bowled by Jadeja (a player I have BTW), Ind conceded 38 runs in last 5 overs at rate of 7.6 (greatly skewed by Nehra's last over that conceded 15). Jadeja conceded runs at an over par rate 8rpo.
In India's Innings in the last 3.1 overs, Ind scored 18 runs at 5.68rpo- 2 were bowled by spinners who conceded 13 at rpo of 6.5.
So statisticaly even, using spinners in last few overs will do more harm than good
 
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anant said:
So, we judge a chucker by his peak, but someone with mystery action on his career?

And Spinning tracks arent batsman friendly and despite this, no team uses a spinner that late!
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If you want to define his peak as the first two years of his career when people were surprised by his action, be my guest.

anant said:
No one uses Morkel in death overs. His bowling overs will be similar to kallis' in t20s. And which spinner bowls in last 2-3 overs of an innings?


I'd say his peak years :drool:
I meant in 140s region. ANd how many times this WC has 140s type of score been enough on these spinning tracks! Hint: its a lot. Look at every NZ game! Ind vs Bangladesh was pretty tough batting wise, SA vs SL, SA vs WI, Eng vs Afg, etc.
On a spinning pitch 140-150 is a pretty decent score especially when opposition batting runs till 1 down and you have world's best spinner and Jadeja
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Will find matches for you later after work.
 
MJJ said:
If you want to define his peak as the first two years of his career when people were surprised by his action, be my guest.
Will find matches for you later after work.
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Just a found a game where spinner was used on a spin friendly track:
Ind vs NZ commentary:
In NZ's innings- last 5 overs 2 were bowled by Jadeja (a player I have BTW), Ind conceded 38 runs in last 5 overs at rate of 7.6 (greatly skewed by Nehra's last over that conceded 15). Jadeja conceded runs at an over par rate 8rpo.
In India's Innings in the last 3.1 overs, Ind scored 18 runs at 5.68rpo- 2 were bowled by spinners who conceded 13 at rpo of 6.5.
So statistically even, using spinners in last few overs will do more harm than good.

And speaking of longer peaks, I am pretty sure, he had a longer peak than Perera, Uthappa.
And yes, Tanvir was dropped because of injuries in 2010 rather than performances.
 
And yes, talking of peaks, Isn't White going to be your pinch hitter? What is his peak? Becasue cant find 2 continuous series where he averaged 25+ or consecutive series involving games where his S/R was 130+ . And 130 should be the absolute minimum for a pinch hitter!
 
anant said:
And yes, talking of peaks, Isn't White going to be your pinch hitter? What is his peak? Becasue cant find 2 continuous series where he averaged 25+ or consecutive series involving games where his S/R was 130+ . And 130 should be the absolute minimum for a pinch hitter!
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http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/player/8291.html?class=3;template=results;type=batting

Grouping Span Mat Inns NO Runs HS Ave BF SR 100 50 0 4s 6s
year 2009
6 6 1 157 55 31.40 112 140.17 0 1 0 8 8
year 2010
15 14 5 306 85* 34.00 217 141.01 0 2 0 18 19

Must try harder.
 
Initially voted MJJ, but have thought about it again

I was initially drawn in by the sheer overwhelming depth of MJJs batting, and then the superstars in Gayle and Kohli, and then Malik and White (I presume Cam) scored plenty of runs, but the more I think about it, the more i lean towards anant's team, his batting isn;t shabby with Williamson and Smith and then in Buttler he has that superstar who can do incredible things - and his bowling is better.

So switched vote, probably switch it again, it's a close one this
 
EdWeatherall said:
Initially voted MJJ, but have thought about it again

I was initially drawn in by the sheer overwhelming depth of MJJs batting, and then the superstars in Gayle and Kohli, and then Malik and White (I presume Cam) scored plenty of runs, but the more I think about it, the more i lean towards anant's team, his batting isn;t shabby with Williamson and Smith and then in Buttler he has that superstar who can do incredible things - and his bowling is better.

So switched vote, probably switch it again, it's a close one this
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This is why I have trust issues!
 
MJJ said:
http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/player/8291.html?class=3;template=results;type=batting

Grouping Span Mat Inns NO Runs HS Ave BF SR 100 50 0 4s 6s
year 2009
6 6 1 157 55 31.40 112 140.17 0 1 0 8 8
year 2010
15 14 5 306 85* 34.00 217 141.01 0 2 0 18 19

Must try harder.
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And that is why I had written Series!

Also, considering the claim that Tanvir has been poor post 2009,
Tanvir's stats from 2012 are pretty good


Grouping Span Mat Inns Overs Mdns Runs Wkts BBI Ave Econ SR 4 5
year 2012 9 9 31.3 0 205 10 3/12 20.50 6.50 18.9 0 0
year 2013 10 10 36.0 2 250 9 2/11 27.77 6.94 24.0 0 0
year 2014 4 4 15.0 0 107 4 2/24 26.75 7.13 22.5 0 0
 
Couldn't ignore the Kohli factor.
 
Varun said:
Would have voted you if you had 2 half good bowlers instead of Pereira and white. You didn't need them with Gayle and Kohli in the side.
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Dude white isn't even bowling. I have mcclenaghan,ajmal,perera, gayle, malik and hussey on a spinning pitch. I chose not to play broad because of the conditions.
 
MJJ said:
Dude white isn't even bowling. I have mcclenaghan,ajmal,perera, gayle, malik and hussey on a spinning pitch. I chose not to play broad because of the conditions.
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I didn't mean he was bowling. I meant you didn't need his batting or Pereira's all round ability. Would have been better to have 2 bowlers instead. You have 2 main bowlers and a lot of part timers.
 
Leaving aside lack of bowling depth MJJ's side, I have a batting lineup that is technically superior and technique is an important factor especially on spinner's paradise.
Also, The fielding- Look at the fielders in my side- Jadeja, Smith, Rohit, Williamson- some of the best fielders right now.
 
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