Television Succession

I think Kendall will take the throne. He is the most brutal and competent of the three kids. Mencken will not get the deal, Tom will brutally fall from his high horse and Greg will somehow end up in an incredibly high position.

This season has been incredible and I cannot wait to see what the finale holds. Already among my favourite shows ever.
 
altodevil said:
You are reading a whole lot into a few lines in a few posts. Why do you care anyway?
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Honestly don’t care. But you’ve just watched the most childish person on the show call a principled adult, ‘juvenile’ and you’re complaining about a lack of character development.

You’re looking for change from the wrong people. It’s not that show.
 
I guess it's not an episode I'll be dying to re-watch quite soon, but I think it was quite good. The eulogies were obviously pivotal: Roman desperately propping himself up with the profanities only to completely collapse. Ken having his rock star (relatively speaking) moment, all the while Shiv panicking about it and showing us - and this time also the world - that she's not half as smart as she thinks, scrambling into the stage throwing out as many words as she could without saying a lot.

I think in that scene Roman lost Mencken, but Shiv also lost Mattson. We already saw Mencken betray the brothers and I think Mattson just did the same to Shiv, because CEO just looks too far fetched for her, especially considering her opposition to Mencken. The logical conclusion at this point would be Ken either with or without Mattson. I think his last interaction with Roman stressed that he's now assumed the role of his father in the family, I also got the vibe that Roman realized he'll be a "bitch" forever and was actively trying to get himself hurt or even killed in the end.
 
This season is rushed. Characters flip-flop per episode and depending on what the plot requires them to be. One moment Mattson is a business savvy genius, the next he is a complete shizo who doesn't know what he wants. Mencken's betrayal of Roman and Ken doesn't make sense and isn't in his interest. Overall, I feel like S5 here was desperately needed to explore the GoJo deal, Logan's death and eventual Succession.
 
Already decided the minute it's over I'm rewatching it all from scratch.
 
edcunited1878 said:
I don't think I did because the episode has already been aired and I'm in the U.S., plus the entire episode includes total run time of all programming that was played in the 1 hour 20+ minutes from last night.

And the series finale preview has been available to the world for 18 hours.
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This is irrelevant. It is classed as a spoiler and should not be talked about in here.

People choose to avoid previews for a reason. There will be warnings if it happens again.
 
Sviken said:
This season is rushed. Characters flip-flop per episode and depending on what the plot requires them to be. One moment Mattson is a business savvy genius, the next he is a complete shizo who doesn't know what he wants. Mencken's betrayal of Roman and Ken doesn't make sense and isn't in his interest. Overall, I feel like S5 here was desperately needed to explore the GoJo deal, Logan's death and eventual Succession.
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Mencken's betrayal absolutely makes sense.. on one hand, because it's a classic theme for would be puppet masters to lose control of their own creation and on the other hand Roman was the liaison and he just shit the bed massively at the funeral. We even have Ken telling us this directly.

And billionaires not being admirable geniuses (though maybe seeming that way from the outside), but (in some ways) flawed lunatics is basically the central theme of the show.
 
Also I don’t know when Matsson was ever portrayed as a savvy genius. He’s always seemed a bit like just another grifter to me.
 
Team Tom.

He worked instead of going to the funeral. The spirit of Logan lives in him.
 
do.ob said:
Mencken's betrayal absolutely makes sense.. on one hand, because it's a classic theme for would be puppet masters to lose control of their own creation and on the other hand Roman was the liaison and he just shit the bed massively at the funeral. We even have Ken telling us this directly.

And billionaires not being admirable geniuses (though maybe seeming that way from the outside), but (in some ways) flawed lunatics is basically the central theme of the show.
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Why would he turn on the Roy’s one day after the election debacle when there a long fight to face to be president? Why would he risk his base for…Mattsen?
It’s mad that they only visited Norway 4 episodes ago. Soooo much has happened
 
cyberman said:
Why would he turn on the Roy’s one day after the election debacle when there a long fight to face to be president? Why would he risk his base for…Mattsen?
It’s mad that they only visited Norway 4 episodes ago. Soooo much has happened
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4 days ago. Which is why I don't really like the format of this series. I mean, Logan's only been dead a week. Only over a week ago he was telling them they're not serious people at a karaoke bar. It's just so odd that so much happened in between his funeral. It's felt very forced and contrived. The show worked better when there were gaps between each episode's setting.

Also for a final season it feels like there's no room for the characters to grow, or something. Like it's going to end after we've spent 9-10 days in a row with them? There's way too much to cover in the last episode too, I think we'll all, mostly, be pretty disappointed.
 
Massive Spanner said:
4 days ago. Which is why I don't really like the format of this series. I mean, Logan's only been dead a week. Only over a week ago he was telling them they're not serious people at a karaoke bar. It's just so odd that so much happened in between his funeral. It's felt very forced and contrived. The show worked better when there were gaps between each episode's setting.

Also for a final season it feels like there's no room for the characters to grow, or something. Like it's going to end after we've spent 9-10 days in a row with them? There's way too much to cover in the last episode too, I think we'll all, mostly, be pretty disappointed.
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The timing just heightens tension & a creates a sense of good sense of bewilderment as we all can have empathy for the poor timing of it all. Doesn't detract at all imo.

There was always going to be a stark crescendo similar to the end of last season. We were never going to see the three sibs fade away into the background, the end was always going to be a slap in the face. The unresolved plot threads won't hurt the overall quality one bit as the episodic length of the show just couldn't ultimately satisfy them all.

It was always going to be a messy breakup re: fans & the show.
 
I don’t mind the short timeline. It doesn’t really matter for me whether stuff happens over weeks/months or days. Sometimes it has been hard to clean how much time has passed but then someone will mention it and you realise how condensed it has been. No wonder everyone is basically losing their shit.
 
Massive Spanner said:
4 days ago. Which is why I don't really like the format of this series. I mean, Logan's only been dead a week. Only over a week ago he was telling them they're not serious people at a karaoke bar. It's just so odd that so much happened in between his funeral. It's felt very forced and contrived. The show worked better when there were gaps between each episode's setting.

Also for a final season it feels like there's no room for the characters to grow, or something. Like it's going to end after we've spent 9-10 days in a row with them? There's way too much to cover in the last episode too, I think we'll all, mostly, be pretty disappointed.
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Got to think there'll be a time jump at some point in the finale.
 
I actually have no idea what the time scale was for previous seasons. I don’t think it really mattered so much?
 
Pexbo said:
I actually have no idea what the time scale was for previous seasons. I don’t think it really mattered so much?
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Usually a few months in between episodes and then the episode itself would cover a day where there was some big event, right? I dunno, maybe I'm reading too much into it. This just feels a bit rushed to us.
 
Solius said:
Also I don’t know when Matsson was ever portrayed as a savvy genius. He’s always seemed a bit like just another grifter to me.
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Yep, I agree. We're so conditioned to see the kids as frauds that we might miss the fact that almost all the business geniuses in the show are portrayed as frauds. Just look at how Matsson talked to Menken at the party, it sounded just like listening to Kendall.
 
I don't mind the short timeline. I actually think it salvages this season in a way. Logan died abruptly at the worst possible time. His kids are both emotionally stunted human beings and unsuited successors to his empire. They don't trust each other and they're surrounded by snakes, both internally and externally. And time is not on their side. It makes sense that they make dumb decisions and lash out emotionally. They are in the midst of chaos.

I worry about the ending though. This isn't The Wire. The show can't just "sort of end". The ending must have some kick to it, but I'm not sure if they can deliver it in a way that is satisfying. Every season so far have ended on semi-conclusive cliff hangers which obviously wont work for a final season. They need to deliver something bombastic, but within the bounds of realism.

Writing good endings to ambitious TV series is hard. They seem to be the exception rather than the norm.
 
cyberman said:
Why would he turn on the Roy’s one day after the election debacle when there a long fight to face to be president? Why would he risk his base for…Mattsen?
It’s mad that they only visited Norway 4 episodes ago. Soooo much has happened
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I don't think it's a strange concept that people are quite eager to forget who put them there, once they (think they) are in power. And Roman's breakdown was a plausible catalyst, too.
 
nimic said:
Yep, I agree. We're so conditioned to see the kids as frauds that we might miss the fact that almost all the business geniuses in the show are portrayed as frauds. Just look at how Matsson talked to Menken at the party, it sounded just like listening to Kendall.
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That’s my view of Kendall. Normal people don’t become billionaire CEOs. The audience are obviously aware of all his flaws and if anything they have used the four seasons to introduce us to other billionaire CEO or CEO candidates and exposed that they actually make Kendall look normal and somewhat competent.
 
do.ob said:
I don't think it's a strange concept that people are quite eager to forget who put them there, once they (think they) are in power. And Roman's breakdown was a plausible catalyst, too.
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Roman is the best character in the show, his grief feels real.
I just can’t see why he would choose a savvy operator such as Mattsen over Roman who has handed editorial control of ATN over to him during an election and called said election in his favour. The man has it made. That could all go away when Mattsen Ikeas it all to shit. It all feels so tacked on to the end of the season, it’s such a shame it never got time to breathe.
Look at Pierce the poor, forgotten bastards, there really needs to be comeback in that as well.
This season is as condensed as if Logan got sick ep 1, the kids took over ep 2, Ken attempts takeover episode 3, cruises scandal ep 4, blows over and attempted bear hug ep 5, wedding and death ep 6, zombie Ken ep 7, agree to buy pierce and falls apart episode 8, Logan agrees a sale to Mattsen ep 9.
Just a whirlpool of plots
 
An understated moment of the episode that I really enjoyed was when Logan's "4" widows, the official wives and the mistresses, all pulled together and sat next to each other, and Marcia put her hand on Kerry's. You could feel the relief from Kerry, and the understanding from the 3 other women, probably having suffered in various ways from their love for Logan.

Also funny that Caroline's "Kerry", Sally-Anne, was portrayed by Brian Cox's real-life wife.
 
Rooney in Paris said:
An understated moment of the episode that I really enjoyed was when Logan's "4" widows, the official wives and the mistresses, all pulled together and sat next to each other, and Marcia put her hand on Kerry's. You could feel the relief from Kerry, and the understanding from the 3 other women, probably having suffered in various ways from their love for Logan.

Also funny that Caroline's "Kerry", Sally-Anne, was portrayed by Brian Cox's real-life wife.
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That was a great scene

I also totally forget the bit in the burial chamber where they're debating whether they'd go in too and Connor says "i'll have to ask Willa, we were talking about cryogenics" :lol:
 
Massive Spanner said:
That was a great scene

I also totally forget the bit in the burial chamber where they're debating whether they'd go in too and Connor says "i'll have to ask Willa, we were talking about cryogenics" :lol:
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"I wouldn't say no to a top bunk" :lol:
 
Another banger of an episode. I know a lot of people aren't too enthused about the choice of having each episode correspond to one day, but I got to say, I don't really notice it. It doesn't feel rushed to me, despite a shit load of things happening in such a short span of time. I feel the pacing is fine, and I think they've done an incredible job of building up to an end. It really does feel like the end is approaching, naturally.

Not every little thing is going to get wrapped up, and not every little thing needs to get wrapped up. I think they will continue with this conceit of having an episode-per-day, thing. I'd be very surprised if we got any sort of five years later, flash-forward type deal. I just don't think the show is concerned about the long-term trajectory of these characters.

As for this episode, the actors really had their chance to shine here. They always do, but I think they really got to show why this ensemble is the best out there right now. I loved that Roman was ready to knock everyone on their ass with his speech, until Uncle Ewan got up there and brought a bit of reality crashing down on him.
 
BusbyMalone said:
Another banger of an episode. I know a lot of people aren't too enthused about the choice of having each episode correspond to one day, but I got to say, I don't really notice it. It doesn't feel rushed to me, despite a shit load of things happening in such a short span of time. I feel the pacing is fine, and I think they've done an incredible job of building up to an end. It really does feel like the end is approaching, naturally.

Not every little thing is going to get wrapped up, and not every little thing needs to get wrapped up. I think they will continue with this conceit of having an episode-per-day, thing. I'd be very surprised if we got any sort of five years later, flash-forward type deal. I just don't think the show is concerned about the long-term trajectory of these characters.

As for this episode, the actors really had their chance to shine here. They always do, but I think they really got to show why this ensemble is the best out there right now. I loved that Roman was ready to knock everyone on their ass with his speech, until Uncle Ewan got up there and brought a bit of reality crashing down on him.
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Speaking of Roman...

https://www.vanityfair.com/hollywood/2023/05/succession-season-four-episode-nine-roman-funeral
 
Scandi Red said:
I don't mind the short timeline. I actually think it salvages this season in a way. Logan died abruptly at the worst possible time. His kids are both emotionally stunted human beings and unsuited successors to his empire. They don't trust each other and they're surrounded by snakes, both internally and externally. And time is not on their side. It makes sense that they make dumb decisions and lash out emotionally. They are in the midst of chaos.

I worry about the ending though. This isn't The Wire. The show can't just "sort of end". The ending must have some kick to it, but I'm not sure if they can deliver it in a way that is satisfying. Every season so far have ended on semi-conclusive cliff hangers which obviously wont work for a final season. They need to deliver something bombastic, but within the bounds of realism.

Writing good endings to ambitious TV series is hard. They seem to be the exception rather than the norm.
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Yeah a fair number of great shows have failed to stick the landing. I actually hated how conclusive and neat the Breaking Bad finale was (thought Better Call Saul did a much better job.) I'm one of the few who loved the ambiguity and open-endedness of The Sopranos finale.
 
do.ob said:
Mencken's betrayal absolutely makes sense.. on one hand, because it's a classic theme for would be puppet masters to lose control of their own creation and on the other hand Roman was the liaison and he just shit the bed massively at the funeral. We even have Ken telling us this directly.
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Yeah, but from Mencken's perspective I don't see how he comes ahead in this. He has the CEO of Fox News in his pocket, willing to shill any kind of propaganda he desires and he trades it for some liberal centrist tech dudebro that doesn't like that type of politics and Shiv who he knows hates him. It seems to me this was sorely done to keep the plot going otherwise Mencken would just block the deal and Kendall can't assume sole leadership of the company.

And billionaires not being admirable geniuses (though maybe seeming that way from the outside), but (in some ways) flawed lunatics is basically the central theme of the show.
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It's not about Rome being a genius, it's the fact that Mencken's betrayal is stupid as feck.

Solius said:
Also I don’t know when Matsson was ever portrayed as a savvy genius. He’s always seemed a bit like just another grifter to me.
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I mean, it depends. In his first meeting with Logan he was quite clearly presented as the child Logan wished he had. He also kinda outmaneuvered Logan with the reverse-uno of GoJo buying Waystar instead of the other way around. But this season how capable he is remains entirely dependent on the episode. Remember when he was about to walk any minute and then in the next episode he desperately wants to buy not only Waystar, but ATN as well and he won't take no for an answer?
 
Sviken said:
I mean, it depends. In his first meeting with Logan he was quite clearly presented as the child Logan wished he had. He also kinda outmaneuvered Logan with the reverse-uno of GoJo buying Waystar instead of the other way around. But this season how capable he is remains entirely dependent on the episode. Remember when he was about to walk any minute and then in the next episode he desperately wants to buy not only Waystar, but ATN as well and he won't take no for an answer?
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I think you missed the point of this. It's not an inconsistency, because he was never going to walk. It was a negotiating strategy to get it to happen as quickly as possible.
 
I can see these riots coming to the fore in the last episode and having an impact on Mencken. I think they are sliding under the radar but with Mencken falling out with the Roys, that could backfire on him.
 
nimic said:
I think you missed the point of this. It's not an inconsistency, because he was never going to walk. It was a negotiating strategy to get it to happen as quickly as possible.
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I don't think it was a negotiating strategy. He was dead serious about this and Logan knew. Then Logan dies and suddenly all is forgotten and he wants to buy ATN as well. You can't tell me this wasn't for plot purposes. I love the show, but come on - this season feels horribly rushed.
 
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