Sturridge vs Welbeck

moses said:
He leaves me cold, I just don't rate his ability. He works hard, but he's A Dirk Kuyt or Alan Smith, neither of whom I liked.
Click to expand...
I think he's much more gifted. He's basically sometimes great at link up play, does something amazing things on the ball but while he has streaks of scoring here and there, generally is poor in final third.

Sturridge is just far far ahead right now. He's already a very very high quality striker. He's oozing class ATM. There's a class about his game Welbeck doesn't have.

The latter will have to improve big time to catch up.
 
Amar__ said:
OK, that's your perception, but I disagree with that, his all-round play in last month or so, or pretty much anytime he played as striker this season was better than van Persie's pre injury(this season).
Click to expand...

He works hard, but are you telling me you would pick him ahead of a fit RVP?
 
moses said:
The bias towards Academy players is finite, when you see so much of them and they still leave you cold, you draw a line. The same for Tom. As for definitely, well no, but I wouldn't be putting too much money on Danny becoming a fixture in the side.
Click to expand...

If he wants to be the 1st choice striker week in week out, I agree its unlikely to be here unless he drastically improves his play in the final third. But he can easily stay here if he's satisfied with a squad role.

Regarding this debate, Sturridge is comfortably the better striker and actually the better player atm. I do think Welbeck will go on to become a very good player himself though and will finish on a similar level to Sturridge. But as I said, if he really wants to become a top striker, it wont happen here at United.
 
amolbhatia100 said:
I think he's much more gifted. He's basically sometimes great at link up play, does something amazing things on the ball but while he has streaks of scoring here and there, generally is poor in final third.

Sturridge is just far far ahead right now. He's already a very very high quality striker. He's oozing class ATM. There's a class about his game Welbeck doesn't have.

The latter will have to improve big time to catch up.
Click to expand...

Streaks of scoring is generous. I liked Danny when he broke through, but he hasn't moved on for me, and that is not a good sign.
 
moses said:
The bias towards Academy players is finite, when you see so much of them and they still leave you cold, you draw a line. The same for Tom. As for definitely, well no, but I wouldn't be putting too much money on Danny becoming a fixture in the side.
Click to expand...
Cleverley is clearly not good enough though, I think only the people blinded by his 'academy' status cannot see that, really.

Welbeck on the other hand, I think he is, but I can certainly see why people wouldn't.
 
Amar__ said:
No way, I never said that, that would be ridiculous.
Click to expand...

So his busyness and overall play count for very little when up against someone who scores goals, which is my point, and the bottom line for a striker. And as good as he may be at linking play, he's not good enough to be a number 10.
 
From the comments you get about his overall play, you'd think he's a new Bergkamp in the making or some such.

Yet, he doesn't really deliver in the hole or the flanks either. So basically, as long as he's played up front, where there is a chance he might score a goal, his overall game is good.
 
B20 said:
This reminds me a bit of the Carrick/Alonso debates we used to have. Ie, only ever a debate on the caf.

I'd even venture the gap between those two is less than between Sturridge and Welbeck.
Click to expand...

To be honest in the last 9 months this hasn't really been a debate on the Cafe. Welbeck's biggest fans will qualify everything with "if he was played as consistently in his favourite position" or "if he had the same run of games" etc. What's the old saying: If my aunt had balls she'd be my uncle?

My opinion is that in 3-4 years Welbeck will be playing for a Newcastle type club (or as a backup at United if he's happy collecting a pay cheque) and Sturridge will still be at Liverpool. Sturridge is clearly a level above talent wise. The only thing I would mention is that I think neither will ever be main strikers for title contending clubs. Sturridge is currently in the hottest patch of his career and is still the 4th place teams' arguably third best player, he'll never reach the levels of an Aguero, Suarez, RVP etc (not that there's anything wrong with that).
 
Sturridge is world class striker. I hope he pushes Liverpool to challenge for the title this season, as his quality would suggest.

zzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
 
moses said:
So his busyness and overall play count for very little when up against someone who scores goals, which is my point, and the bottom line for a striker. And as good as he may be at linking play, he's not good enough to be a number 10.
Click to expand...

It's not just about the goals, Sturridge probably has better goals per game ratio than van Persie and van Persie would be still anyone's pick ahead of him, it's just that he is better striker overall, it's not really fair to compare him with van Persie. After all, Chicharito scores goals and Moyes picks Welbeck ahead of him.
 
Amar__ said:
It's not just about the goals, Sturridge probably has better goals per game ratio than van Persie and van Persie would be still anyone's pick ahead of him, it's just that he is better striker overall, it's not really fair to compare him with van Persie.
Click to expand...

Well you mentioned RVP, saying Danny was playing better than him, which was not really relevant as you said you'd still pick a misfiring RVP ahead of him.


And Sturridge's goal ratio is about par with RVP at the moment, but I'd agrue RVP has scored more important goals during that spell and has also done it over a much longer period. That and you can see what RVP offers on the pitch, his touch and movement stand out. For me if you take the goals away from a strikers arsenal then what he gives instead has to be really special, and I just don't see that with Welbeck.
 
People seem to think all Sturridge does is score, he has more to his game than that. Danny lacks that composure and finishing ability. Forget the fact he doesn't get to play upfront week in week out. When he is presented with goalscoring chances that take more than two or three touches, he seems to mess up. Sturridge has hold up play, great movement, skill and is a good finisher. He's only 24 to boot, you can't ask for much more from him.

Danny is a great physical specimen, strong and fast. He has good touch and skills (at times) and he has decent link up play also. This club may be a bit too high a level for him to get a run as a striker. If he went down to say Everton/Tottenham level he would get the experience he would need.

If we put Danny at Liverpool he would not have been impressive as Sturridge.
 
moses said:
Well you mentioned RVP, saying Danny was playing better than him, which was not really relevant as you said you'd still pick a misfiring RVP ahead of him.


And Sturridge's goal ratio is about par with RVP at the moment, but I'd agrue RVP has scored more important goals during that spell and has also done it over a much longer period. That and you can see what RVP offers on the pitch, his touch and movement stand out. For me if you take the goals away from a strikers arsenal then what he gives instead has to be really special, and I just don't see that with Welbeck.
Click to expand...

I compared him with van Persie because I was comparing just forms of our strikers this season, because it's obvious our strikers aren't enjoying this season that much considering rest of our team are creating very little for them, and Welbeck still scored decent amount of goals and just had very good spell where he was scoring pretty much goal per game in a team that barely creates anything, and we were missing Rooney in some games too. So, saying his form was better than van Persie's in the same team this season it's just saying that he is more than good this season and that he shouldn't be criticised at all, I didn't said that means he is better player, but that he definitely deserves praise, and that he only can become better with better team.

Sturridge has 27 goals in 34 games for Liverpool, and van Persie has 41 in 65 for us, so Sturridge has better ratio during their times with their new clubs, and Sturridge has scored more than decent amount of goals for Liverpool in big games, so I think you cannot say that van Persie looking just by goals is better than him, but as I said, you would still pick van Persie ahead of him, it's not just about the goals.

As for that part when you ignore the goals, again, I strongly disagree, Welbeck has excellent pace, excellent technique, first touch, link up play, he is strong, he rarely looses to ball, I would say apart from goals he is excellent all-round player.
 
Amar__ said:
Sturridge has 27 goals in 34 games for Liverpool, and van Persie has 41 in 65 for us, so Sturridge has better ratio during their times with their new clubs, and Sturridge has scored more than decent amount of goals for Liverpool in big games, so I think you cannot say that van Persie looking just by goals is better than him, but as I said, you would still pick van Persie ahead of him, it's not just about the goals.
Click to expand...

No but you can see from RVP that he is a player, regardless of stats, I don't get that with Welbeck. Only time will settle this. I'd like you to be right.
 
coolredwine said:
Sturridge is world class striker. I hope he pushes Liverpool to challenge for the title this season, as his quality would suggest.

zzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
Click to expand...

You know to have put white text in.
 
moses said:
So his busyness and overall play count for very little when up against someone who scores goals, which is my point, and the bottom line for a striker. And as good as he may be at linking play, he's not good enough to be a number 10.
Click to expand...
There's a proper gulf between them right now. His link up play and work rate are better than Sturridge but it isn't particularly amazing or anything.
 
Some posters will never come to terms with how good Sturridge all round game is, it seems the comparisons to Defoe is embedded too deep into some peoples thinking even though it is honestly one of the worst companions i've ever seen.

Yesterday he had probably his best half at Liverpool playing from the left and often taking up number 10 positions, he also played the pass of the game when he juggled the ball up and knocked it through to Sterling, like i've said before there isn't many strikers in this league with an all round game as polished as him, his touch, the way he manipulates the ball, twists and turns and his passing is all at a high level. To think it got laughed off on here when i said he had a continental style, but i'm coming to the conclusion you have to be near blind not to see it, been a long time since England have produced a striker with as much technical ability and flair as him. In fact the player he reminds me the most of is RVP at Arsenal.

In regards to Welbeck i think he too can be a top striker, he just is in the unfortunate position of playing with two world class strikers in their prime, and another very good striker in Chicarito always ready to come and take his place as soon as he starts misfiring. He has all the tools to be one of the best in the league as well, but he may need to take a step down to a team where he could be one of the two main strikers to have a chance at fulfilling this potential, at the moment Sturridge is the more accomplished player and i would argue this is in terms of finishing and all round play, but Welbeck is still a year younger and this time next year it may be his turn to start firing at all cylinders, i just don't see it happening at United, the competition is too good.
 
IMO, United should send Welbeck on loan to a club like Everton next season. Let him play regularly at the level just below top 4 without serious competition.

Come the summer 2014 and Van Persie well be getting prepped for the glue factory anyway.

He'll be a perpetual nearly man without it I think.
 
Just like people outside United seem stuck with old views regarding the likes of De Gea and Rafael, so some United fans struggle to accept things have shifted massively in this Sturridge v Welbeck thing...
 
B20 said:
IMO, United should send Welbeck on loan to a club like Everton next season. Let him play regularly at the level just below top 4 without serious competition.

Come the summer 2014 and Van Persie well be getting prepped for the glue factory anyway.

He'll be a perpetual nearly man without it I think.
Click to expand...
It would have been the thing to do this season but next season I doubt Hernandez will stick around, making Welbeck the second choice main striker.
 
coolredwine said:
There was a white text in there. :D

And sarcasm fail.. sigh.

AND...never call me a Scouser!!
Click to expand...

I know, hence me saying you know to have put in white text. But then your reply after confused me, apoligies on the scouser, I wasn't trying to insult.
 
This is a total non-discussion. Sturridge is miles ahead. Welbeck would have to have a 20+ goal season next season, on top of a good finish to this one, to even be considered as being anywhere near Sturridge.
 
JaffyJoe said:
People seem to think all Sturridge does is score, he has more to his game than that. Danny lacks that composure and finishing ability. Forget the fact he doesn't get to play upfront week in week out. When he is presented with goalscoring chances that take more than two or three touches, he seems to mess up. Sturridge has hold up play, great movement, skill and is a good finisher. He's only 24 to boot, you can't ask for much more from him.

Danny is a great physical specimen, strong and fast. He has good touch and skills (at times) and he has decent link up play also. This club may be a bit too high a level for him to get a run as a striker. If he went down to say Everton/Tottenham level he would get the experience he would need.

If we put Danny at Liverpool he would not have been impressive as Sturridge.
Click to expand...
Nail on head. Great post.
 
Yeah a few people really overrate Danny's overall game while underrate sturridge's. Welbeck is just 'good' on the ball. Not excellent or whatever, he's not a great passer, just average. He's big, strong and fast, but he really has no idea how to use his body, and gets outmuscled easily and seems to run pretty slowly when it looks like a chance is on. He has terrible shooting technique, but he's got a pretty good touch. Those things just aren't enough really, he doesn't get you out of your seat when he has the ball, thinking he can do something. He doesn't have the ability really to beat players, or at least he doesn't really try to dribble past them very often (sort of like kagawa with this, always does a safe pass first).

I've always said we should've sent him on loan the minute we signed van Persie, because although he played a lot that season, it was all on the wing where he is useless because Rooney, Hernandez and van Persie were all clearly ahead of him as a striker. I don't think he'll ever fully develop at united because he's not good enough to take over as a main striker right now, and at united we always use world class forwards over the years, so when rvp and Rooney are past it, we'll probably look to buy a top class forward to replace them as I don't see us continuing to use 2 strikers consistently. He's a good player, but I think a team like Tottenham or Everton is his future level, not a title challenging team.
 
amolbhatia100 said:
It would have been the thing to do this season but next season I doubt Hernandez will stick around, making Welbeck the second choice main striker.
Click to expand...

I'd still go for a loan at this moment, not because I don't think Welbeck can't make it at United, but because when RVP and Rooney are fit, they will play. The only games Welbeck would get a start in are Carling Cup games and dead rubbers in the CL and league. Despite the school of thought on here, you need a run of games as a player to be really good.
 
This "why is this even a thread" rhetoric seems extremely pompous to me. For a start, the thread has been around since early 2011 when Sturridge was on loan at Bolton from Chelsea and Welbeck was on loan at Sunderland from United. The comparison between the two is completely understandable. They are a year apart, they've played together throughout the England youth ranks and they play in the same position(s) for rival clubs. Additionally, there are some interesting similarities and differences in their style of play that are worthy of comparison. They even have similar builds and stature - and yes they're both black too. Their careers have been running on an interesting kind of parallel for years now. This thread is an interesting tracking of their progressions.

Over the past few years their individual successes have dovetailed - with both having more promising spells than the other. Yes, in the last 12 months Sturridge has kicked on and is enjoying a new level of success and acclaim that Welbeck is yet to achieve. Prior to that, his spell at Chelsea was marked with the same issues as Welbeck's spell at United. Playing second fiddle to more established strikers, not getting a run in the team and being played out of position. Whisper it, but Welbeck's goal scoring record for United is actually superior to Sturridge's goal scoring record for Chelsea. Fair play to Sturridge he has taken his opportunity of first team football at Liverpool with both hands and he has stepped up a level. That is no reason to get on one's high horse, attack this thread, and play the smug "I'm more objective than you" card. The comparison between the two players is still interesting and will be interesting to watch develop over the next few years as their careers for club and country continue.

I think it's entirely reasonable to expect that in the next few years both Sturridge and Welbeck will have spells or seasons where they perform better than the other or have more individual success. It's also possible that one of them will kick on and leave the other one trailing in their wake. Either way - this thread is still worthy and interesting, and doesn't need this fecking dismissive pretentiousness that is stinking up the last few pages. The only posters coming out from this at all well are the Scousers, who are at least posting with good humour and are deservedly enjoying the fact that their player is currently in the form of his life.

bosnian_red said:
I think a team like Tottenham or Everton is his future level, not a title challenging team.
Click to expand...

Same can be said of Sturridge :devil:
 
B20 said:
IMO, United should send Welbeck on loan to a club like Everton next season. Let him play regularly at the level just below top 4 without serious competition.
Click to expand...

He's currently not pulling up any trees playing at a club just below top 6 :angel:
 
M'n'M said:
He's currently not pulling up any trees playing at a club just below top 6 :angel:
Click to expand...

I think, when given a run up front, he's shown enough to suggest he could do a job for a top 7 side. ;)
 
B20 said:
I think, when given a run up front, he's shown enough to suggest he could do a job for a top 7 side. ;)
Click to expand...

A couple of seasons back, at 21 years of age, he showed he was good enough to play up front for a top two side. He's a far better player now than he was then, but hey.. he misses a few 'tap ins' and falls over a bit so lets forget the good stuff.
 
Drainy said:
A couple of seasons back, at 21 years of age, he showed he was good enough to play up front for a top two side. He's a far better player now than he was then, but hey.. he misses a few 'tap ins' and falls over a bit so lets forget the good stuff.
Click to expand...
He scored 12 goals all year, despite playing as a striker alongside Rooney almost all year. He was promising but lets not get ahead of ourselves saying he looked really good all year and looked like a top class Manchester United forward. He played well in the big games, but did basically nothing in all the other games from memory.
 
Rowem said:
This "why is this even a thread" rhetoric seems extremely pompous to me. For a start, the thread has been around since early 2011 when Sturridge was on loan at Bolton from Chelsea and Welbeck was on loan at Sunderland from United. The comparison between the two is completely understandable. They are a year apart, they've played together throughout the England youth ranks and they play in the same position(s) for rival clubs. Additionally, there are some interesting similarities and differences in their style of play that are worthy of comparison. They even have similar builds and stature - and yes they're both black too. Their careers have been running on an interesting kind of parallel for years now. This thread is an interesting tracking of their progressions.

Over the past few years their individual successes have dovetailed - with both having more promising spells than the other. Yes, in the last 12 months Sturridge has kicked on and is enjoying a new level of success and acclaim that Welbeck is yet to achieve. Prior to that, his spell at Chelsea was marked with the same issues as Welbeck's spell at United. Playing second fiddle to more established strikers, not getting a run in the team and being played out of position. Whisper it, but Welbeck's goal scoring record for United is actually superior to Sturridge's goal scoring record for Chelsea. Fair play to Sturridge he has taken his opportunity of first team football at Liverpool with both hands and he has stepped up a level. That is no reason to get on one's high horse, attack this thread, and play the smug "I'm more objective than you" card. The comparison between the two players is still interesting and will be interesting to watch develop over the next few years as their careers for club and country continue.

I think it's entirely reasonable to expect that in the next few years both Sturridge and Welbeck will have spells or seasons where they perform better than the other or have more individual success. It's also possible that one of them will kick on and leave the other one trailing in their wake. Either way - this thread is still worthy and interesting, and doesn't need this fecking dismissive pretentiousness that is stinking up the last few pages. The only posters coming out from this at all well are the Scousers, who are at least posting with good humour and are deservedly enjoying the fact that their player is currently in the form of his life.
Click to expand...

Very good post.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.