Still Need that Game Changer

I realise that some of you think Martial is going to win the Ballon dor.
I also realise that some fans think L.Shaw is the best LB in the World and the only reason we didn't win the league 2 years ago, was because of Shaw's injury.
But to compare Martial with Ronaldo is err....deluded?

Ronaldo was very exciting to watch in his very first season for us. His end product was lacking, but he did everything, but score a goal. By the age of 21, he was already one of the best players in the league. By the age of 23, did he not win the Ballon Dor?

Martial, in comparison has scored 4 league goals in his last season. He was abysmal. Even the word abysmal is perhaps too good to describe how bad Martial was last season and some believe that if he has another one of those seasons, he'll be gone in the Summer. I said this 2 seasons ago: Martial would not have even made the bench in the 1999 squad. That's how good Martial is right now.

Does he have potential? Yes. Of course. But realising that potential is a whole different story.
Ronaldo burst onto the scene at 22, at 21 there were still plenty of naysayers on the caf. I was there and I had to defend him tooth and nail. Especially in the summer before he went ham in the premier league.

Edit: actually you're right since he was still 21 in the season where he exploded following his third so and so season with us.
 
We have some great options tbf. This is a really tasty front 6 IMO.

Lukaku

Martial _ Pogba _ Mkhitaryan

Matic _ Herrera​
It's very good. But as per the thread, I think it's one "game changer" away from being a title winning team. Even Spurs have a better first choice front 6 imo. That definitely won't be the case with a Sanchez or Bale though.

Lukaku

Bale _ Pogba _ Mkhitaryan

Matic _ Herrera
We're just that bit of quality short behind the striker. All United's greatest teams have had it. Ronaldo, Rooney, Tevez were our 3 attackers the last time we won the CL. All game changers.
 
Jesus. Did he feck your mother then burn the house down?

He was no worse than Rashford (for the majority of the season) or Lingard and in terms of goals plus assists per minute he was only behind Ibrahimovic...

:lol:

Seriously I really don't get all the hyperbole on this forum. He wasn't good but to call his season abysmal is a bit of a stretch. Also amazing that people have not patience with young players anymore, either they perform at their best possible level for every season or they are immediately written off. Unfortunately not only by our fans but it seems the media and in parts our manager don't afford young players any room for mistakes anymore. Apart from the occasional freaks almost all young players struggle to be consistent between the age of 17-23/24.
 
Mahrez would be more productive than Martial, Rashford and Miki.

Or make Di Maria look energetic and enthusiastic.

Tough one. I would love him in our squad. As a last resort if other options fall through though. We need consistent greatness. Sanchez would be first choice.

I wonder why none of the top Premiership clubs have shown interest in him?
 
How long is Athletico's ban? Does it include Jan window? If not is there any chance we get Griezman in the Winter window? Particularly if they get Costa in for Jan.
 
I think the difference of having a decent DM as opposed to Felani, will allow Pogba and Herera the freedom to move forward more effectively, Herera had pretty impressive assists and creativity stats when in La Liga, not to mention Mata, Miki and Lingard able to slot into that no. 10 role.... I think we are okay without, I have good vibes that Pogba is going to have a very impressive season now he isn't going to be so burdened by defensive responsibilities
 
I think right now our squad looks good in all areas even the bench. I honestly think Sanchez is the missing piece.

Sheer determination to win at all costs. He already has the Mourinho defensive work rate. If he comes he'll add 20 goals and 10+ assists. This straight away puts up in a great position considering all the draws last year.

He's honestly worth what ever we have to pay for him to beat our rivals.
 
I think right now our squad looks good in all areas even the bench. I honestly think Sanchez is the missing piece.

Sheer determination to win at all costs. He already has the Mourinho defensive work rate. If he comes he'll add 20 goals and 10+ assists. This straight away puts up in a great position considering all the draws last year.

He's honestly worth what ever we have to pay for him to beat our rivals.

I also think that if you got Sanchez it would instantly take your team up a level and you would be one of the favorites to win the league. You still have a big problem in the transition from defence to attack - Matic could help this by freeing up Pogba but it remains to be seen just how effective that will be.
 
I don't think we could outbid City for Sanchez, Dembele will probably push upwards of 100m too, Mahrez would definitely be cheap alternative, but you have to wonder why no-one else is interested?
 
I don't think we could outbid City for Sanchez, Dembele will probably push upwards of 100m too, Mahrez would definitely be cheap alternative, but you have to wonder why no-one else is interested?

Mahrez has had a career of complete mediocracy with one purple patch in a freak season. He is inconsistent, very lazy and nowhere near good enough.
 
Mahrez has had a career of complete mediocracy with one purple patch in a freak season. He is inconsistent, very lazy and nowhere near good enough.
This is my concern, it is also well known that managers and ex managers talk about possible transfers. I wonder if clubs have spoken to the Leicester team and got an answer they don't like. I get the feeling Jose doesnt want to go get a game changer, hence spending "only" 40m on Perisic, its a bit of a nothing gamble. I think his view might be that he wants to see if Martial, Mkhi, Lingard, Rashford can step up this season and those that don't will be shipped out to make way for a big buy next year
 
I realise that some of you think Martial is going to win the Ballon dor.
I also realise that some fans think L.Shaw is the best LB in the World and the only reason we didn't win the league 2 years ago, was because of Shaw's injury.
But to compare Martial with Ronaldo is err....deluded?

Ronaldo was very exciting to watch in his very first season for us. His end product was lacking, but he did everything, but score a goal. By the age of 21, he was already one of the best players in the league. By the age of 23, did he not win the Ballon Dor?

Martial, in comparison has scored 4 league goals in his last season. He was abysmal. Even the word abysmal is perhaps too good to describe how bad Martial was last season and some believe that if he has another one of those seasons, he'll be gone in the Summer. I said this 2 seasons ago: Martial would not have even made the bench in the 1999 squad. That's how good Martial is right now.

Does he have potential? Yes. Of course. But realising that potential is a whole different story.
He scored 4 goals and created 6 assists in 1558 PL minutes (around 17 full matches). That works out to a goal or an assist every 155~ minutes. Not bad at all for a player who was in the worst form of his life, personal issues, and a strange form of man-management behind him.
 
He scored 4 goals and created 6 assists in 1558 PL minutes (around 17 full matches). That works out to a goal or an assist every 155~ minutes. Not bad at all for a player who was in the worst form of his life, personal issues, and a strange form of man-management behind him.
Just took a look and when you look at his per 90 mins stats Martial actually wasn't as bad as you think. The stats don't seem to tell the story how his season feels in my head, but maybe it was an expectation too far with his issues.
 
I wonder why none of the top Premiership clubs have shown interest in him?

He's woefully inconsistent. I see that as the only reason.

One stunning season remains an outlier of his career. Even at his single-game best last season he wasn't at the level of the title winning season.
 
Griezmann next summer.
Griezmann isn't a player who goes past 3-4 players and scores goals. He is great at positioning and finishing, but he is not Messi, Neymar or Hazard.

In our team I can see Martial, Rashford and Pogba as game changers right now.
 
Just took a look and when you look at his per 90 mins stats Martial actually wasn't as bad as you think. The stats don't seem to tell the story how his season feels in my head, but maybe it was an expectation too far with his issues.
Of course, stats never tell the full story. The initial post was totally disparaging and claiming Martial was 'abysmal', which is ridiculous. It wasn't a great season, but contextualised with a lick of sense and comparing to his competition, it was one which still highlighted the fact that Martial has bundles of ability and should realistically be pushed as a serious option.
 
How long is Athletico's ban? Does it include Jan window? If not is there any chance we get Griezman in the Winter window? Particularly if they get Costa in for Jan.

No they can register players again from January 1st. So we should be buying Greizmann January 1st. Don't care if he is cup tied in Europe, theres still half a league season left at that point. Im really really hopeful we have some sort of pre-agreement with Greizmann from this summer that he will join us as soon as possible once Atletico are sorted. Especially with the rumored Barcelona links.

Hopefully Costa will rejoin Atletico in the summer and then sit around until January so Greizmanns replacement is already in place.
 
No they can register players again from January 1st. So we should be buying Greizmann January 1st. Don't care if he is cup tied in Europe, theres still half a league season left at that point. Im really really hopeful we have some sort of pre-agreement with Greizmann from this summer that he will join us as soon as possible once Atletico are sorted. Especially with the rumored Barcelona links.

Hopefully Costa will rejoin Atletico in the summer and then sit around until January so Greizmanns replacement is already in place.

Seconded.
 
I think Matic will make game changers like Pogba, Lukaku, Martial and Rashford arise.
 
I think we have done great business thus far in the market, filling some needed gaps, but we have not yet addressed our biggest challenge from last year. Right now we just do not have that player that can grab a game, and make a difference when needed. Someone that is creative, can take players on and create opportunities and work some magic.

We have those types of players in our ranks with Mkhi, Rashford and Martial but none of them have been able to step up to the levels that we'd need, particularly when we are in a tight match and need something special.

Let's hope there is still some business to be done and we can find this type of player that will help us score in those matches that really cost us last season.
FOr a very short while, I thought Di Maria would be just that. maybe we should get him back h haha
 
I think we are done for the summer.
Massive risk from Woodward if that's the case and chances are it could be true, but one unlucky injury to Lukaku and Jose will probably have to experiment with attacking lineup, once again... Last season it had very random effects and team couldn't find consistency whatsoever.
 
Our players have to step up without the need to pay again.

Remember that season when we had Falcao and Di Maria and RVP and Rooney in our team? They didn't step up.
Last season we had several attackers who failed to step up.
What makes you think that after all that, now, our players are going to step up?
Is it logic....or blind hope?
 
I feel next summer we shall go all out for a world class attacker. Unless a miracle like Bale leaving Real pops up this summer

Bale's miracle of leaving shall pop up this Summer. And next Summer. And the one after that. :p
Same with Ronaldo, Messi and probably even Neymar (if he has an average season with PSG).
 
Let Martial play consistently and he will become our game changing player.
 
Jesus. Did he feck your mother then burn the house down?

He was no worse than Rashford (for the majority of the season) or Lingard and in terms of goals plus assists per minute he was only behind Ibrahimovic...

My mother? My house?
Awww, I think I hurt this Martial fanboy's feelings. :p
I am not the one who told Martial to score 4 league goals in a season, so I suggest you direct your ire somewhere else.

And btw, I have berated all our attackers, except Ibra. Rashford is let off due to his age, but Mata, Lingard, Martial, Miki - all of them were atrocious last season.
I read a stat that Lallana was Liverpools worst attacker (goal-wise), but he out scored all of the names I mentioned above. That puts into perspective how bad most of our attackers were.

I do find it strange that players who were terrible last season, have such a strong following, yet players like Fellaini, who actually has had some decent games for us (not many, but some), gets such a hard time.
 
I really don't think Martial, Miki, Rashford, Lingard or Mata will be good enough to improve much on our goal haul from last season. I think we'd benefit a lot from a switch to 3-5-2 if we buy Perisic. Put Martial and Lukaku up front. Miki for me flatters to deceive and will not make it here.
 
Matic will free up our attackers from a lot of defensive responsibilities. I think we will see a very different season from players like Martial and Miki.
100%. I can see Rashford and Martial tearing it up this season.
 
My mother? My house?
Awww, I think I hurt this Martial fanboy's feelings. :p
I am not the one who told Martial to score 4 league goals in a season, so I suggest you direct your ire somewhere else.

And btw, I have berated all our attackers, except Ibra. Rashford is let off due to his age, but Mata, Lingard, Martial, Miki - all of them were atrocious last season.
I read a stat that Lallana was Liverpools worst attacker (goal-wise), but he out scored all of the names I mentioned above. That puts into perspective how bad most of our attackers were.

I do find it strange that players who were terrible last season, have such a strong following, yet players like Fellaini, who actually has had some decent games for us (not many, but some), gets such a hard time.
All our attackers were poor but claiming that even abysmal is too mild a word to use for his performances is ridiculous and unnecessary hyperbole. That would be ridiculous even for Lingard.

The much-maligned attackers still had far more good games than Fellaini. It's just we expect much less of Fellaini - when he does the basics, he gets praise. Mkhitaryan is labelled terrible despite being our EL top scorer.
 
I agree, I believe we will end up with Perisic and Aurier.
We should be challenging for the title if the players gel as expected.
I agree with the OP that we still require a game changer but to be fair if we end up lining up like this;


---------------------------De Gea--------------------------
Val/Aurier-------Bailly/Smalling------Jones/Lindelof/Rojo---------Shaw/Blind
----------------------Matic/Carrick---------------------
--------------Pogba/Pereira---------Herrera/Fellaini--------------

Mhiki/Lingard-------------Lukaku/Rashford/Ibra--------------Perisic/Martial


That's solid depth to say the least.
 
I agree with the OP that we still require a game changer but to be fair if we end up lining up like this;


---------------------------De Gea--------------------------
Val/Aurier-------Bailly/Smalling------Jones/Lindelof/Rojo---------Shaw/Blind
----------------------Matic/Carrick---------------------
--------------Pogba/Pereira---------Herrera/Fellaini--------------

Mhiki/Lingard-------------Lukaku/Rashford/Ibra--------------Perisic/Martial


That's solid depth to say the least.


That side definitely has the most depth that weve had for quite some time. My only concern is LB.
As much as I like Shaw, he cannot be relied upon and while Blind does a reasonable job at LB, I'd prefer someone who gets up and down the wing a bit more.
 
That side definitely has the most depth that weve had for quite some time. My only concern is LB.
As much as I like Shaw, he cannot be relied upon and while Blind does a reasonable job at LB, I'd prefer someone who gets up and down the wing a bit more.
Agree, ideally we get a left back along with a winger. We haven't been linked to any left backs this summer though.
 
Remember that season when we had Falcao and Di Maria and RVP and Rooney in our team? They didn't step up.
Last season we had several attackers who failed to step up.
What makes you think that after all that, now, our players are going to step up?
Is it logic....or blind hope?
How the hell do you understand from what I said, that I think I believe they'll step up :confused: ?
 
Pogba, Martial, Rashford.

Not enough

Pogba from the midfield yes, he can boss a game but not as an attacker that will rip open defences and score important goals left and right.

Martial and Rashford both very raw and they don't have the maturity in their game yet to play such a vital role.