Film Star Wars: Episode VIII

[beedoubleyou]

I'm allowed my opinion. And the new trilogy is shit so far. Rogue One was awesome.

You're allowed your option and are welcome to it, but saying "the only people who like it are probably those who have never seen the originals or have never invested in EU properly" is just fallacy.

 

[JustAFan]

They were still powerful at that stage, having been able to create the weapon in the first place, and ruling thousands or so system. While if you look at the events of post-RotJ (be it in the old or new canon), The New Republic had destroyed the Empire. So yep, I think it is quite important to know who was this guy who managed to destroy the New Republic, from the position of weakness.

Not having read any of the books:

Despite killing the emporer and destroying the new Death Star it is probably safe to say there were plenty of Empire loyalist left around along with storm troopers, ships etc. The New Republic would also be weak as it put itself together and tried to consolidate power. So not that far fetched that the First Order could quickly become a powerful force.

 

[Ubik]

Honestly, you liked that? Gravity in space? I mean, I know Star Wars was never that big on science and that's why it's a space fantasy, but that was stretching my suspension of disbelief way too much.

They have gravity in ships, they've always had gravity in ships.

 

[JustAFan]

You're allowed your option and are welcome to it, but saying "the only people who like it are probably those who have never seen the originals or have never invested in EU properly" is just fallacy.

Yes he can have his opinion about the movie but he can't make up his own facts.

 

[Cheesy]

They have gravity in ships, they've always had gravity in ships.

Plus I'd imagine the Original Trilogy violated all sorts of things you typically would/wouldn't get in space. It's not exactly attempting to be realistic sci-fi and never has been.

 

[beedoubleyou]

Wouldn't that have made Snoke extra-cautious though? And to be fair, the first time he was drank, this time he wasn't.

This is, of course, assuming that Snoke is Plagueis in the first place, which the movie didn't confirm or deny (bar the music trolling).

Also, why on Earth, Snoke wanted Rey killed? It made no sense from the movie point of view, and if we go with Snoke = Plagueis theory, then from Plagueis book, he was arguably the most benevolent Sith lord in the history. Obviously, he was okay with killing things (he ordered Palps to kill his family), but the kill should serve some purpose, which didn't in Rey's case. Ren was already converted, and he had past his test by killing Han. Killing Rey was totally needless, while converting her would have served their purpose better (Plagueis wasn't a believer of the rule of two, so no problem on keeping two apprentices).

I was really just riffing on the meme, but I don't actually think he was ever meant to be Plagueis. He just doesn't look like someone who was poisoned in his sleep. His death certainly deserved a Sheev-esque 'ironic' scoff.

 

[Grinner]

Anyone writing 'Palps' deserves a lightsabre up the jacksie.

 

[Dumbat12]

They have gravity in ships, they've always had gravity in ships.

Dropping bombs don't really has anything to do with ship gravity, but whatever. It's not that big of a deal, Star Wars was never meant to be a science fiction movie.

 

[Ubik]

Dropping bombs don't really has anything to do with ship gravity, but whatever. It's not that big of a deal, Star Wars was never meant to be a science fiction movie.

But they're dropped from within the ship, where there's gravity, and that momentum would be preserved once they hit vacuum.

I agree it doesn't really matter, it's just kinda funny when something that's actually pretty okay scientifically is picked out in a film series of inaccuracies.

 

[Snowjoe]

I swear the people who are saying how crap this is are looking at the old films through the same glasses people use to look at the Fergie era and talk like we used to batter teams 5-0 every week.

 

[space]

Just watched TLI, it was fecking awful and I am so disappointed. Especiay after I liked TFA and thought it set everything up so well. feck you Rian Johnson

 

[Godfather]

I swear the people who are saying how crap this is are looking at the old films through the same glasses people use to look at the Fergie era and talk like we used to batter teams 5-0 every week.

Ah not really. Didn't even particularly like the old ones. Quite liked The Force Awakens. This one was a bit shit though. There just happened way too much that didn't make any sense at all.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

Dropping bombs don't really has anything to do with ship gravity, but whatever. It's not that big of a deal, Star Wars was never meant to be a science fiction movie.

Yet you mention it as though it somehow spoiled your enjoyment of an exciting space battle?

 

[CassiusClaymore]

Ah not really. Didn't even particularly like the old ones. Quite liked The Force Awakens. This one was a bit shit though. There just happened way too much that didn't make any sense at all.

Did you not get the memo? If you didn't like the film you must be a Star Wars nerd or worse still, an alt right lunatic (actually that might be the other way around).

 

[Dumbat12]

But they're dropped from within the ship, where there's gravity, and that momentum would be preserved once they hit vacuum.

I agree it doesn't really matter, it's just kinda funny when something that's actually pretty okay scientifically is picked out in a film series of inaccuracies.

Well, honestly, the bombs thing is one of the least important problems in this movie.

Yet you mention it as though it somehow spoiled your enjoyment of an exciting space battle?

No, I just found it stupid, the same way I found the kamikaze run stupid. "Exciting" space battle... wouldn't really call it that. The only thing that excited me in the movie is Rey and Kylo teaming up, but they had to feck that up afterwards, too.

 

[padr81]

While the movie was great some of the youtube nerd meltdowns over it are even greater. For that reason alone I want to see it win 72 Oscars

 

[Pogue Mahone]

Well, honestly, the bombs thing is one of the least important problems in this movie.


No, I just found it stupid, the same way I found the kamikaze run stupid. "Exciting" space battle... wouldn't really call it that. The only thing that excited me in the movie is Rey and Kylo teaming up, but they had to feck that up afterwards, too.

You didn’t like the movie. That’s fine. Just seems weird that your go-to dismissal of a particular scene that someone else who enjoyed was to nit-pick about “science”. Even more so when this particular nit-pick carries no weight (no pun intended) as explained by @Ubik above.

Not addressing this to you, personally, but it seems like a lot of the more obsessive fans have been annoyed because the movie didn’t play out exactly the way they wanted, so are making a massive deal about inconsequential flaws to retrospectively justify their annoyance. And that’s kind of pathetic.

 

[Nytram Shakes]

Really didn't like this film, felt like the director was just trying to shock the audience with twist after twist, and forgot to write a decent film for these twists to take place in.

 

[beedoubleyou]

You didn’t like the movie. That’s fine. Just seems weird that your go-to dismissal of a particular scene that someone else who enjoyed was to nit-pick about “science”. Even more so when this particular nit-pick carries no weight (no pun intended) as explained by @Ubik above.

Not addressing this to you, personally, but it seems like a lot of the more obsessive fans have been annoyed because the movie didn’t play out exactly the way they wanted, so are making a massive deal about inconsequential flaws to retrospectively justify their annoyance. And that’s kind of pathetic.

Agreed. I think it's been made by a real filmmaker who has made dramatic decisions for the story and not for fan service. Some bits bother me more than others, but it was a good call.

 

[sullydnl]

I was fine with Luke dying but it was a very ridiculous scene. There was nothing that we saw him do or say that would suggest that using the force for a few minutes would kill him.

When Rey and Ren are first connected he says he knows she didn't do it as the effort would have killed her. I think that was the set up for Luke dying later.

 

[Dumbat12]

You didn’t like the movie. That’s fine. Just seems weird that your go-to dismissal of a particular scene that someone else who enjoyed was to nit-pick about “science”. Even more so when this particular nit-pick carries no weight (no pun intended) as explained by @Ubik

Just as he was surprised that the movie divides the fanbase, I was also surprised that he liked the scene. There's nothing wrong with that, people have different taste.

Not addressing this to you, personally, but it seems like a lot of the more obsessive fans have been annoyed because the movie didn’t play out exactly the way they wanted, so are making a massive deal about inconsequential flaws to retrospectively justify their annoyance. And that’s kind of pathetic.

They have a reason to be annoyed. It's not about obsessiveness, this movie shits on everything Star Wars and it does absolutely nothing at the same time. Is there a post limit in this? I can probably go on a ramble about why this film is absolutely terrible and if there is a post limit, I would probably break it.
The characters, the plot, the setting, the "twists"... oh god, there's so much wrong with this movie. Let me just say that the only bit I liked is when Rey and Kylo teamed up to fight the guards, and probably Kylo's character (but that is mainly due to Adam Driver's acting). Everything else in this movie sucks and I'm not saying that as an obsessed SW fan, it's really just a bad movie.

 

[sullydnl]

Just as he was surprised that the movie divides the fanbase, I was also surprised that he liked the scene. There's nothing wrong with that, people have different taste.


They have a reason to be annoyed. It's not about obsessiveness, this movie shits on everything Star Wars and it does absolutely nothing at the same time. Is there a post limit in this? I can probably go on a ramble about why this film is absolutely terrible and if there is a post limit, I would probably break it.
The characters, the plot, the setting, the "twists"... oh god, there's so much wrong with this movie. Let me just say that the only bit I liked is when Rey and Kylo teamed up to fight the guards, and probably Kylo's character (but that is mainly due to Adam Driver's acting). Everything else in this movie sucks and I'm not saying that as an obsessed SW fan, it's really just a bad movie.

If you think it's genuinely an objectively poor movie then why do you think it's been so well received by critics?

It seems the "it's just a poor movie" criticism is far more prevalent amongst pre-existing Star Wars fans than it is among more neutral audiences (like critics), which to me suggests that Pogue has a point. If it really was an objectively poor movie then you'd expect the criticsm to be more evenly spread among fans and neutrals.

 

[arthurka]

Saw it again and it´s better the next time around. I really enjoyed it, really entertaining. 8,5/10

 

[GBBQ]

I got a text from my Dad after he went to see it and he said '5 star cheese pizza'. And I don't know if that's the perfect review or if its early onset dementia.

 

[VP89]

Really didn't like this film, felt like the director was just trying to shock the audience with twist after twist, and forgot to write a decent film for these twists to take place in.

Him keeping both rey and ren on the same respective side, keeping Lea and not having a Jerry springer twist on Reys parents points towards fine balance for me. Killing Snoke was the biggest surprise but I otherwise expected one or both of Lea and Luke to go.

I don't think there were too many twists. This one had perfect balance.

 

[Dumbat12]

If you think it's genuinely an objectively poor movie then why do you think it's been so well received by critics?

Do you really believe in professional critics in this day and age? They don't know a movie any less than you do. Critics feel that way because it's is their livelihood and Disney is very powerful (the most powerful in the film industry), so they feel the need to rate it good because otherwise they won't be invited to see anything from Disney every again and other privileges they get when it comes to dealing with Disney. We, on the other hands, are anonymous people, Disney can't get to us so we can say whatever the hell we want and think about the movie.

 

[Dumbat12]

Him keeping both rey and ren on the same respective side, keeping Lea and not having a Jerry springer twist on Reys parents points towards fine balance for me. Killing Snoke was the biggest surprise but I otherwise expected one or both of Lea and Luke to go.

I don't think there were too many twists. This one had perfect balance.

It sets up the movie as another rehash of ESB and into the ROTJ where the First Order will inevitably lose. What they should have done is make Rey accept Kylo's offer and make their announcement to the galaxy that they will rule it from here on out and outdaded concepts as the Jedi, Sith, Republic, Empire - would all be abandoned. And end the movie there. This creates a nice setup for the next movie where Leia, the Resistance would still be fighting the First Order, but this time there would be a lot more depth in it and Kylo and Rey Sue would actually become meaningful and well thought characters. Unfortunately Disney lack the balls to do something like this, so they decided to continue with the OT - remastered edition instead.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

Do you really believe in professional critics in this day and age? They don't know a movie any less than you do. Critics feel that way because it's is their livelihood and Disney is very powerful (the most powerful in the film industry), so they feel the need to rate it good because otherwise they won't be invited to see anything from Disney every again and other privileges they get when it comes to dealing with Disney. We, on the other hands, are anonymous people, Disney can't get to us so we can say whatever the hell we want and think about the movie.

That’s bollox tbf. Plenty of movies from big studios (including Disney) have been massacred by critics before.

 

[Siorac]

Really didn't like this film, felt like the director was just trying to shock the audience with twist after twist, and forgot to write a decent film for these twists to take place in.

It barely had any twists, really. The one big surprise was Snoke getting killed off unceremoniously.

 

[Cheesy]

That’s bollox tbf. Plenty of movies from big studios (including Disney) have been massacred by critics before.

Yeah, pretty much every big DC movie that's come out recently has been slated due to how terrible most of them have been.

 

[sullydnl]

Do you really believe in professional critics in this day and age? They don't know a movie any less than you do. Critics feel that way because it's is their livelihood and Disney is very powerful (the most powerful in the film industry), so they feel the need to rate it good because otherwise they won't be invited to see anything from Disney every again and other privileges they get when it comes to dealing with Disney. We, on the other hands, are anonymous people, Disney can't get to us so we can say whatever the hell we want and think about the movie.

That's just not true though. Plenty of critics attack big studio film mercilessly without any fear of reprecussion from the studio. Just look at the pasting the DC superhero films regularly get, for example. Or the likes of Mark Kermode who liked this film despite slaughtering previous Star Wars films and indeed previous Disney flops like John Carter. Where was the studio's power then?

 

[Siorac]

Amen. I’ve never heard of Plagueis and couldn’t give a toss about him. I suspect the vast majority of people who watched the movie are in the same boat.

Honestly, I was happy that Snoke got killed off without a lot of explanations just because he has such a terrible name. I mean, Snoke, really? Who came up with that?

 

[Pogue Mahone]

It sets up the movie as another rehash of ESB and into the ROTJ where the First Order will inevitably lose. What they should have done is make Rey accept Kylo's offer and make their announcement to the galaxy that they will rule it from here on out and outdaded concepts as the Jedi, Sith, Republic, Empire - would all be abandoned. And end the movie there. This creates a nice setup for the next movie where Leia, the Resistance would still be fighting the First Order, but this time there would be a lot more depth in it and Kylo and Rey Sue would actually become meaningful and well thought characters. Unfortunately Disney lack the balls to do something like this, so they decided to continue with the OT - remastered edition instead.

And there you have it. Exactly what I'm talking about. People who are criticising the movie because the plot wasn't the plot that they wanted. It's a strange phenomenon and never happens other than from obsessed fans of Star Wars or comic book spin-offs. It's also never an angle you'll hear from any movie critic because you should criticise what appears on the screen, not what it lacks compared to a hypothetical movie produced in your own head.

 

[VP89]

It sets up the movie as another rehash of ESB and into the ROTJ where the First Order will inevitably lose. What they should have done is make Rey accept Kylo's offer and make their announcement to the galaxy that they will rule it from here on out and outdaded concepts as the Jedi, Sith, Republic, Empire - would all be abandoned. And end the movie there. This creates a nice setup for the next movie where Leia, the Resistance would still be fighting the First Order, but this time there would be a lot more depth in it and Kylo and Rey Sue would actually become meaningful and well thought characters. Unfortunately Disney lack the balls to do something like this, so they decided to continue with the OT - remastered edition instead.

I disagree, there are still lots of ways they can go from here. The resistance is more depleted than it was on ESB and I don't think it would have been smart to have it end with the only 2 Jedis joining hands along with a ridiculous fleet to dominate 400 resistance members. They may as well have ended the franchise there and then.

The galaxy needs balance and Rey and Ren need to be on opposite sides is the way I see it. They're the last of the trained Jedi, with the kids having the force at the end scene leaving various routes possible from there. There's also no Yoda, no Sidious, no Vadar and no Obi Wan. No seasoned member to guide two very green leaders which for me adds a fresh element to the story even if you can draw comparisons to ESB and ROTJ.

 

[Dumbat12]

And there you have it. Exactly what I'm talking about. People who are criticising the movie because the plot wasn't the plot that they wanted. It's a strange phenomenon and never happens other than from obsessed fans of Star Wars or comic book spin-offs. It's also never an angle you'll hear from any movie critic because you should criticise what appears on the screen, not what it lacks compared to a hypothetical movie produced in your own head.

No, because what I would have done is delete the whole new Star Wars franchise and start something entirely different in the Old Republic era where the KOTOR games are set. What I actually said in my post was that the movie was shit, but they at least could have made it better with some tweaking and doing what I said would have made people eager to tune in for the last one, as well.

Instead, why is anyone going to watch the last movie? Rey has already beaten Kylo, Kylo was humiliated by pretty much everyone, he just won't work as a main villain. And bringing Snoke back would be a stupid thing to do.

I disagree, there are still lots of ways they can go from here. The resistance is more depleted than it was on ESB and I don't think it would have been smart to have it end with the only 2 Jedis joining hands along with a ridiculous fleet to dominate 400 resistance members. They may as well have ended the franchise there and then.

The galaxy needs balance and Rey and Ren need to be on opposite sides is the way I see it. They're the last of the trained Jedi, with the kids having the force at the end scene leaving various routes possible from there. There's also no Yoda, no Sidious, no Vadar and no Obi Wan. No seasoned member to guide two very green leaders which for me adds a fresh element to the story even if you can draw comparisons to ESB and ROTJ.

Well, considering that Disney wanted to imply with this movie that anyone can be a jedi, I don't believe that is so. Rey's parents are drunkards and she is one of the most powerful Jedis ever. She also appeared from a planet in a middle of nowhere. I'm sure there are potential Jedis around.

 

[nickm]

Honestly, you liked that? Gravity in space? I mean, I know Star Wars was never that big on science and that's why it's a space fantasy, but that was stretching my suspension of disbelief way too much.

Forgotten about the TIE bombers in Empire Strikes Back then? Let alone that none of the ships in Star Wars - XWings, TIE fighters - could physically manoeuvre the way they do, in real space. Does it matter? No, it's a space fantasy.

 

[VP89]

Well, considering that Disney wanted to imply with this movie that anyone can be a jedi, I don't believe that is so. Rey's parents are drunkards and she is one of the most powerful Jedis ever. She also appeared from a planet in a middle of nowhere. I'm sure there are potential Jedis around.

There are potential Jedi as shown by the last scene. But no one to train them just yet and no idea on the split that will be dark or light.

Also I don't think rey is necessarily stronger than Ren. She had the upper hand once and you can put it down to him underestimating her. As for who can and who can't be a Jedi, I found the premise that it has to run in your bloodline a bit stupid anyway. I don't mind Disneys direction.

 

[Zarlak]

And there you have it. Exactly what I'm talking about. People who are criticising the movie because the plot wasn't the plot that they wanted. It's a strange phenomenon and never happens other than from obsessed fans of Star Wars or comic book spin-offs. It's also never an angle you'll hear from any movie critic because you should criticise what appears on the screen, not what it lacks compared to a hypothetical movie produced in your own head.

To be fair, this is probably because these films are based on pre-existing universes full of lore, characters and stories to draw from and the films are often inspired by these stories, then the films go a different way. You don't see it in other films because they're fresh and nobody knew the first thing about it before they watched it, or cared about what direction it went in because they didn't know any other direction that it could have possibly gone in. That's not the same with comic book films or films where there are a plethora of books out there to base the story on and translate to the big screen. It's still a bit silly, you're right but it's not really a strange phenomenon or strange that it doesn't happen with other movies.

 

[acnumber9]

And there you have it. Exactly what I'm talking about. People who are criticising the movie because the plot wasn't the plot that they wanted. It's a strange phenomenon and never happens other than from obsessed fans of Star Wars or comic book spin-offs. It's also never an angle you'll hear from any movie critic because you should criticise what appears on the screen, not what it lacks compared to a hypothetical movie produced in your own head.

That’s not really true. There was a large thread on here about Inception where people complained it wasn’t ‘dreamy’ enough. Yourself included.

If it was a standalone film your point of view would have slightly more merit. It’s not though and some of these characters and storylines have been built over many years so criticisms like that are much more valid.

 

[squiggle]

I finally got to see and I've no idea what the complaints about. That's the Star Wars I grew up loving.

Random thoughts - I loved Chewie getting to pilot the Falcon on his own. And getting to hug Leia at last.

- The Porgs were great, though I could have done without the cooked ones. So were the foxes. Neither outstayed their welcome.

- The humour didn't put me off. To some extent that's always been a part of Star Wars. You might quibble about where it's appropriate but I didn't.

- The four main returning characters remained as likeable and interesting as before, and exactly what was missing from the prequels. And Poe got to do more this time.

- or rather the main five, because BB-8 is as much a character as any of them.

- Rose Tico was brilliant. Funny and touching.

- BB-9E reminded me of Vincent and BOB from the Star Wars knock-off The Black Hole.

- real Yoda was back. I don't agree with RLM that his eccentricity was all an act. He did play it up to test Luke when they first met but he was always an oddball. And damn it, when he said he'd missed Luke...

- Likewise the reunions of Luke and Chewie, and Luke and R2, and Luke and Leia, and Luke and Threepio were lovely.

- But it does sadden me that we'll never see Luke, Leia and Han together again.

- where's Lando?

- I thought they played Snoke's part very well. I'm sure they'll expand on his role elsewhere but we didn't need to know any more. We just needed to know that there was more to know. His throne room was beautiful.

- likewise Rey's parentage.

- one minor criticism is that I think (unless I missed something) that Laura Dern could have let Poe and Billie Lourd and the amphibian guy know that there was something more to her plan. I enjoyed seeing Billie Lourd more.

- But most of all that was Luke Skywalker. It really was. I had concerns about where they'd take him but, no, it all fitted. It was Luke, my first fantasy hero, whose toy my parents gave me when we were emigrating.

It was wonderful.