Did you ever hear the tragedy of Darth Plagueis The Wise?
Film Star Wars: Episode VIII
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Did you ever hear the tragedy of Darth Plagueis The Wise?
Absolutely horrible movie. Around halfway through the casino scene I actually found myself saying "I haven't enjoyed any part of this movie yet". So many things make no sense, so many things add nothing to the movie or to the story as a whole. I was underwhelmed by the force awakens, but the last jedi makes that movie seem like a classic.
I reckon I'm in the exact same boat as you. Wasn't entirely sure when I first saw it, but there was definitely something there that had me intrigued. Going by your post, I decided to watch it again last night and really enjoyed it. There's a lot happening, and some parts could be better, but I agree with you, the core characters are fantastic.
Was also surprised at how much I somehow managed to miss the first time around.
The scene with Snoke, Kylo and Rey is absolutely brilliant and so well done. On the first viewing it felt a bit contrived, but second time around I appreciated the way they all play off one another. Loved the way Snoke claims to have predicted Rey's emergence as the balance/opposite to Kylo. And it seems both Kylo and Rey come of age in that moment.
The bit with Yoda was also excellent. Loved how he still treats Luke as the kid from Empire. On the first viewing I didn't realise that Yoda knew that Rey had taken the books, so had no qualms about burning down a tree. Now it makes lots of sense, and his dialogue was so good.
Also came to realise how visually stunning parts of the film are. Even at the start, when the Stardestroyers appear in the sky at lightspeed, so incredibly menacing.
At the end, when the boy uses the Force to pick up the broom. Didn't notice that at all on the first viewing. Saw it this time and it changed the end scene completely, now it felt like Luke looking out from Tatooine.
The bit with Yoda was also excellent. Loved how he still treats Luke as the kid from Empire. On the first viewing I didn't realise that Yoda knew that Rey had taken the books, so had no qualms about burning down a tree. Now it makes lots of sense, and his dialogue was so good.
Also came to realise how visually stunning parts of the film are. Even at the start, when the Stardestroyers appear in the sky at lightspeed, so incredibly menacing.
At the end, when the boy uses the Force to pick up the broom. Didn't notice that at all on the first viewing. Saw it this time and it changed the end scene completely, now it felt like Luke looking out from Tatooine.
I also consider myself a big Star Wars fan, and though I'm still not convinced by the Casino sequence, there was so much there that I thought was really very good. Also, for those wondering, there's no post-credit scene (thankfully), however it's worth waiting for the credits to roll for a minute or so.
I do find the anger from fans over the lack of explanation of Snoke's background to be hilarious. I don't remember The Emperor in ESB or ROTJ stopping to give a breakdown of his past...
Wouldn't that have made Snoke extra-cautious though? And to be fair, the first time he was drank, this time he wasn't.
This is, of course, assuming that Snoke is Plagueis in the first place, which the movie didn't confirm or deny (bar the music trolling).
Also, why on Earth, Snoke wanted Rey killed? It made no sense from the movie point of view, and if we go with Snoke = Plagueis theory, then from Plagueis book, he was arguably the most benevolent Sith lord in the history. Obviously, he was okay with killing things (he ordered Palps to kill his family), but the kill should serve some purpose, which didn't in Rey's case. Ren was already converted, and he had past his test by killing Han. Killing Rey was totally needless, while converting her would have served their purpose better (Plagueis wasn't a believer of the rule of two, so no problem on keeping two apprentices).
I was fine with Luke dying but it was a very ridiculous scene. There was nothing that we saw him do or say that would suggest that using the force for a few minutes would kill him.
I'm allowed my opinion. And the new trilogy is shit so far. Rogue One was awesome.
Other than Star Wars nerds who the feck would know who Plagueis is? He was mentioned, what, once in a throw away line in Episode III which came out 12 years ago. Not only are they trying to do everything to ignore the prequels, but I just simply do not think they would expect anyone other than the hard core community to have any conception of who he was. And besides, he would mean absolutely nothing to any of the characters we've got left.
Because it would have been a great time to introduce a character with a deep back story as a total badass instead of the lame duck we got. A guy who was supposed to be amazing, there from the start, witnessed the fall of the sith, incredibly powerful training the next Darth Vader who can apparently sense everything going on in somebodies mind who then dies after doing absolutely nothing whatsoever in the films because he had his eyes closed and didn't see or hear a lightsaber next to him turning towards him.
I have a theory that Ren and Rey are super strong because there are so few force wielders left and so the force becomes more concentrated in them. Snoke pretty much admits as much that the Light would rise to meet it, an equal. Its the central principle of the movie of balance. Ren previously looked weaker than Rey but Snoke said it was because he was affected by killing his dad and conflicted, and presumably from the wound too. But in their confrontation this time they fought to a standstill over the lightsabre. What do you think?
Oh I agree that Snoke's character was an absolute lame duck who needed a better back story, but I simply do not think that that clamouring for him to be Pelagius makes any sense in the context of what TFA/TLJ have done.
Making him Pelagius would just be an exercise in fan service, and god knows there's enough of that already.
Amen. I’ve never heard of Plagueis and couldn’t give a toss about him. I suspect the vast majority of people who watched the movie are in the same boat.
I think it would have done, if they introduced him in the film and explored who he was. It was a great and ready made character. Palpatines master, it would immediately speak to casual fans anyway as the master of the last big bad who they grew up with - it's a natural progression. They'd just need to go into more about him and briefly explore his backstory and not kill him in a lame manner.
It makes perfect sense. It is also why I thought it made so much sense for Palpatine to be so ridiculously powerful, cause the dark side of the force was concentrated on him and his apprentice, while the light side was spread over 10k Jedi.
I've not seen it yet, Does Flash Gordon get 24 hours to save the earth or does he need help from Dr Spock? *stands back and sees if anyone bites!*
The Emperor's Master would have made him immediately super badass.
I just don't really see how that would strengthen his character that strongly in relation to the characters in the film. The new heroes all have no reason whatsoever to know who he is (and I'm not convinced there's any plausible reason why Luke, Leia, or Han would either), and I think you're still assuming a great deal of the casual fan to remember the dialogue line that created him.
To you. To the average fan it would have needed explaining and they would have had to deal with the backstory. Regardless of who Snoke was supposed to be his real issue is they've shown over two films that they simply could not be bothered to create a backstory for him. If they weren't willing to spend anytime developing the character then one line of dialogue going 'I'm Palegius btw' harking back to one line of dialogue in a film 12 years ago isn't going to fix it.
I wouldn't say ignore as it seemed like they tried to distance themselves from the older movies somewhat.
That's a good point too. Think the Jedi always misunderstood the One who will bring balance as to mean get rid of the Sith. In New Hope there was just Darth and the Emperor vs Obi Wan and Luke--much more balanced. After ROTJ there was Luke and Leia to a small extent and Snoke. Now Snoke and Luke die maintaining the balance of Rey vs Ren (plus broom boy and presumably a new dark force user).
He says in the throne room "I cannot be betrayed", so you'd think he'd dial it down a bit if he really was Plagueis, who most Star Wars fans know only as "that bloke that Palpatine betrayed". It was on the nose enough for him to be saying it whilst he was actively being betrayed, let alone that.
I think this stuff is similar to the Rey parentage stuff - let's not shrink the universe down so that only people we've come across before can be players. Having him be Plagueis adds pretty much nothing to the story other than being a nod to fan theories.
I think this stuff is similar to the Rey parentage stuff - let's not shrink the universe down so that only people we've come across before can be players. Having him be Plagueis adds pretty much nothing to the story other than being a nod to fan theories.
Goes to the cinema with his wife and kid
Enjoys some popcorn and a frosty beverage
Takes in the spectacular entertainment on the giant screen that makes him feel like a kid again.
Doesnt take to the internet after to point out the movies inadequacies.
May go watch it again.
Enjoys some popcorn and a frosty beverage
Takes in the spectacular entertainment on the giant screen that makes him feel like a kid again.
Doesnt take to the internet after to point out the movies inadequacies.
May go watch it again.
They'd thought Snoke would be a new big bad villain since Darth Sidious, turned out he was just a MacGuffin.
I also don't get what all the red herrings in TFA were for, the final twist was just meh. Yes, they made a point but going through all the trouble for ... what? How is this good writing again?
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Extremely bad movie. Ruins absolutely everything we know and love about Star Wars. Doesn't answer almost anything and the things it does answer, it answers in the most lazy and shitty way I've ever seen. TFA was a rehash of A New Hope. Meh, a decent movie if you can ignore the shitty character clones and the rehashed plot(but you can't because it basically resets the Star Wars universe so we can go for R̶e̶b̶e̶l̶s̶ The Resistance vs the E̶m̶p̶i̶r̶e̶ First Order round 2 thus making Vader's sacrifice and Luke's story utterly meaningless). So when you take into account all these things - it's a shit movie. TLJ, on the other hand, tries to be original in some ways (mostly fails, IMO), but just because something is "original" doesn't make it good.
It's a shame really, I don't know what else I expected. Disney has always played it safe. Star Wars has some of the most amazing settings and story I have ever seen outside the movies (like the KOTOR games) and yet Disney will never even venture there because they are just a souless corporation with no real passion for the universe. Say what you want about Lucas but at least he tried something new and unique. It was badly made, but the prequels tried to tell a different story than the OT. Now we're stuck with an amazing franchise stuck in the hands of the same people who made these "funny quips" Marvel movies.
It's a shame really, I don't know what else I expected. Disney has always played it safe. Star Wars has some of the most amazing settings and story I have ever seen outside the movies (like the KOTOR games) and yet Disney will never even venture there because they are just a souless corporation with no real passion for the universe. Say what you want about Lucas but at least he tried something new and unique. It was badly made, but the prequels tried to tell a different story than the OT. Now we're stuck with an amazing franchise stuck in the hands of the same people who made these "funny quips" Marvel movies.
Unless you go by the theory that he engineered his fall in the hands of Palps, knowing that otherwise the chosen one will kill him. He had some ability to look at the future (or so he said), and he was quite concerned about the Chosen One (in some way, the Force created the Chosen one to balance Plagueis' ability to cheat death and to directly control the Force/midichlorians).
I think that Snoke being Plagueis would have just make the fans happy, while not changing anything for the characters. Which is why I think that eventually they will have a book showing that he is Plagueis, and that book will be read only from the fans. What is bothering me though, is why Johnson decided to play Plagueis' music in the throne scene.
Everything we needed to know about the OT was there from the start. We didn't need a backstory. All we knew was "It is a period of civil war". The opening shot establishes big, powerful bad guys and the weaker good guys. That was all we needed. How he became the emperor was irrelevant at the time.
Skip forward to the sequel trilogy though, suddenly those questions become important. Where we left off, the rebels ruled the galaxy and the bad guys had been defeated. So what changed, and why? This new Snoke guy, how did he turn around the situation we saw at the end of ROTJ, and where did he find the money? Suddenly who this guy is becomes very important because we're told to forget everything we saw previously. There's a gap between two stories we know, where something big clearly happened and as an audience we want that filled in.
I'm not sure how this film is polarizing people so much.
It was worth it for the opening scene alone. Those bombers and the bomb bays, so very much the B52 of WW2... the sacrifices being made... it was awesome.
The music was just a carry over from TFA I think. Johnson really didn't seem to care who he was, maybe Abrams will want to go into it more.
Which is exactly what happens when you read the scrolling text at the very beginning of the movie.
Have you seen the force awakens? They have this massive planet killer base and blow up the planets with the new republic government on. That's how the first order takes over
But the crawl for The Force Awakens didn't do any of that.
I quite liked them killing off Snoke. Even if he'd been given backstory it was always going to amount to the same character - ie an Emperor-esque bad guy who's evil for the sake of being evil. His death actually surprised me and the scene itself was very good.
That music was only in Revenge of the Sith, I think.
Johnson even name-checked Plagueis in an interview, saying that Snoke = Plagueis wouldn't have made any difference for Rey, so it doesn't matter if he was Plagueis or not, so yep, he mostly didn't care about Snoke in general, considering that he decided to kill him.
So you don't care about what happened in the 30 years prior? Personally I think that would make for a much better movie than the one we got, but that's me.
They were still powerful at that stage, having been able to create the weapon in the first place, and ruling thousands or so system. While if you look at the events of post-RotJ (be it in the old or new canon), The New Republic had destroyed the Empire. So yep, I think it is quite important to know who was this guy who managed to destroy the New Republic, from the position of weakness.
Oh right, yeah. Thought you were talking about this one.
Me too
Oh right, yeah. Thought you were talking about this one.
May be entirely making this up but I'm sure the "Snoke's music is the same as Plagueis'" discussion was had after TFA, for that scene where he's the infeasibly large hologram. There's almost certainly a youtube of it.
Well, I don't know how anyone can like this movie (and this isn't some form of an insult against anyone, I just really don't), so we're both perplexed.
Honestly, you liked that? Gravity in space? I mean, I know Star Wars was never that big on science and that's why it's a space fantasy, but that was stretching my suspension of disbelief way too much.