This is what I don't get. The reviewers criticise this movie for its lack of originality, when The Force Awakens and The Last Jedi were just as unoriginal. Only difference being they were better executed to an extent.
Film Star Wars Episode IX The Rise of Skywalker [Theories]
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This is what I don't get. The reviewers criticise this movie for its lack of originality, when The Force Awakens and The Last Jedi were just as unoriginal. Only difference being they were better executed to an extent.
Star Wars films or your posts?
Saw it last night. Thought it was shite. I say that as someone who disliked The Force Awakens but quite liked The Last Jedi.
Too unoriginal, too much fan service. TLJ gave me some hope that Star Wars might actually try to do something new and go in a slightly different direction, but instead Abrams (of course) opts for the fan service, the rehash of Episode VI. A glorified fetch quest with far, far too much suspension of disbelief for my liking. I actually think it could have been redeemed if
but no, we had to go for the Hollywood ending. Cliches, inconsistencies, unexplained phenomena and a healthy dose of power creep... I let out an audible groan when
I hate the way that Abrams doesnt feel the need to have any sort of story transition from previous films, either. The Force Awakens was even worse for this - we go from the Jedi/Resistance winning at the end of the original trilogy; the death star is destroyed, the Empire is defeated. Suddenly out of nowhere there is the "First Order" - no explanation for how they actually formed or became so powerful. Did nobody see them coming and think "hey, we should probably do something about these guys before they get too strong...". Rise is guilty of the same sort of thing. They dont even bother to put arguably the biggest reveal on screen - its just told to you in the scrolling text introduction without any further explanation and expect you to take it as given.
Too unoriginal, too much fan service. TLJ gave me some hope that Star Wars might actually try to do something new and go in a slightly different direction, but instead Abrams (of course) opts for the fan service, the rehash of Episode VI. A glorified fetch quest with far, far too much suspension of disbelief for my liking. I actually think it could have been redeemed if
Rey had stayed dead
Rey started force pulling a transport ship out of the sky
I hate the way that Abrams doesnt feel the need to have any sort of story transition from previous films, either. The Force Awakens was even worse for this - we go from the Jedi/Resistance winning at the end of the original trilogy; the death star is destroyed, the Empire is defeated. Suddenly out of nowhere there is the "First Order" - no explanation for how they actually formed or became so powerful. Did nobody see them coming and think "hey, we should probably do something about these guys before they get too strong...". Rise is guilty of the same sort of thing. They dont even bother to put arguably the biggest reveal on screen - its just told to you in the scrolling text introduction without any further explanation and expect you to take it as given.
How did the Emperor survive? Why was this not hinted at before? How the feck is there a secret Sith planet with an enormous fleet of planet killing ships out of nowhere? Who built these things? Why is there an inscribed dagger with critical information on it? Why the feck does Rey keep randomly wandering off blankly like an idiot and nearly getting herself killed? Why do both she and Kylo have such ridiculous mastery of the force beyond virtually anyone else before them, and without even needing to try? Why are these two Sith Wayfinder devices just being left in random treasure hunt locations? Given the rule of Two, why dont Kylo and Snoke/Sidious just keep their respective Wayfinders on them at all times?
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I think that's the thing, you can have familiar beats but make them seem fresh, or have call-backs without it feeling forced. The whole Palpatine shtick, retconning Rey (for literally no purpose other than fan service), all the member berries people turning up, a planet going kaboom... It all felt quite uninspired. TFA was a rehash but it gets away with it because the original itself was heavily based on other material but freshened up, and it felt like a return to the old magic after those many trade disputes. This was more like box ticking.
Problem for me is that they didn't feel fresh in the first two of this sequel trilogy. It was as obvious as it is in this one. I'm aware that Lucas burrowed from DC's New Gods, Japanese mythology, Flash Gordon, etc., but it wasn't relying on itself to retell a story.
So those time travel plot leaks everyone freaked out about turned out to be bullshit?
I still don't get what this "new direction" or "something different" stuff is about regarding TLJ. It did nothing new or different, it was just a bit boring and pissed of some fans.
Never even heard of those ones
Never even heard of those ones
Honestly. I kinda liked it. 
Thought it was actually pretty good. There were no stupid scenes like the last jedi. My only gripe about is was that they were able to fight each other while being in different locations. Thought that was a bit of a stretch. But I liked everything else. Fights were good, finn and Poe were better in this. Leia got a nice send off and finally did some justice with chewies reaction to her death. C3PO was funny. Palpatine was pretty good too, bit generic but he did his job well. Feel like the only person
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I decided to watch a camrip before deciding on whether or not I’d try to persuade someone to go with me. It’s a pretty easy decision. What a disappointing film.
I dislike it when films or books try to be mysterious by simply retconning everything we knew. It was Palpatine all along. Everyone knew who Rey’s parents were. Leia was a Jedi and her past holds the key to the last half hour of Rey’s journey.
That’s not mystery, J.J. Abrams! That’s having no story. Just dramatic moments that are dramatic while they need to be and then forgotten (or re-explained as something else, actually.)Their lack of a plan’s come back to bite them with a vengeance. Nothing matters and J.J.’s the last person to change that.
Leia’s insertions are awkwardly obvious, especially her death.
Some of the dialogue would sound bad even in RotJ. And plot points are embarrassingly sign-posted (Rey’s name).
The Knights of Ren are pointless and ridiculous.
Han turns up again. Wa-hey.
Rose, whom I really enjoyed in TLJ, is brushed aside. It’s nice to see Lando again, and the new characters are fine, but they hardly have room to do anything since two of our three main heroes are only just getting to know each other.
I enjoyed TFA in spite of reservations about J.J. Abrams’ ability to work beyond exciting scenes and the incoherent explanation about the Resistance and First Order, and the way the most striking scene - the blood humanising the bad guys - was quickly ignored.
I loved TLJ (I admit some of it was silly, but no sillier than ANH or RotJ.)
But this...
I suppose I liked the bits about the droids.
I dislike it when films or books try to be mysterious by simply retconning everything we knew. It was Palpatine all along. Everyone knew who Rey’s parents were. Leia was a Jedi and her past holds the key to the last half hour of Rey’s journey.
That’s not mystery, J.J. Abrams! That’s having no story. Just dramatic moments that are dramatic while they need to be and then forgotten (or re-explained as something else, actually.)Their lack of a plan’s come back to bite them with a vengeance. Nothing matters and J.J.’s the last person to change that.
Leia’s insertions are awkwardly obvious, especially her death.
Some of the dialogue would sound bad even in RotJ. And plot points are embarrassingly sign-posted (Rey’s name).
The Knights of Ren are pointless and ridiculous.
Han turns up again. Wa-hey.
Rose, whom I really enjoyed in TLJ, is brushed aside. It’s nice to see Lando again, and the new characters are fine, but they hardly have room to do anything since two of our three main heroes are only just getting to know each other.
I enjoyed TFA in spite of reservations about J.J. Abrams’ ability to work beyond exciting scenes and the incoherent explanation about the Resistance and First Order, and the way the most striking scene - the blood humanising the bad guys - was quickly ignored.
I loved TLJ (I admit some of it was silly, but no sillier than ANH or RotJ.)
But this...
I suppose I liked the bits about the droids.
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My expanded thoughts on it, it's weird because I did on the whole enjoy the movie and thought it was decent, and I left feeling somewhat satisfied before then picking it apart on my way home - but even with the below things that I hated, it's not enough to make me hate the film I just think it could have been so much better.
Right off the bat I hated the fact that Palpatine was shoehorned into the opening scroll-text. Such a huge development, we should have seen an opening scene where people on all worlds were hearing this transmission. Instead we just get the text 'PALPATINE IS ALIVE AND EVERYONE HEARD HIM ON THE RADIO AND NOW WE GO TO THE MOVIE!'
I know that Leia in the expanded universe which is now non canon had a lot of development regarding her Jedi training, but we've seen none of that whatsoever in these movies she's just been a princess/general until she did her Superman flying through space in the last movie. So with that in mind, we have flashbacks to her training as a Jedi, her lightsaber being gifted to Rey. It just seems like that brings more questions than it answers, which we no longer have the ability to pursue in future movies so it seemed needless to include it.
The knights of Ren were absolutely pointless characters. They did absolutely nothing in the first 2 films, and did nothing in this film other than follow Rey around a bit looking a bit menacing and then have a 5 second fight with Kylo that they were annihilated in. They added absolutely nothing to the films.
Rey's healing and force lightning makes sense given that she's Palpatines granddaughter and he had those powers it's literally in her blood so I can forgive that, but what the feck is with Palpatines son, her dad? Why is the son of the most powerful person in the universe not have any kind of power at all, he's just a random normie living in the desert.
Rey blowing up the transport ship then to say 'oh Chewie must have been on another transport!' there was no other transport. That's really dumb. Did Ren somehow cause everyone to see some kind of mirage? That made no sense.
The Republic fleet they brought at the end was beyond overkill. They make a point about how nobody came during one battle but all of a sudden Lando goes to a few planets and they now have the biggest fleet that we've ever seen in Star Wars coming to their aid? On top of that, before they showed up we're shown the republic fighters engaging the star destroyers and being somewhat outnumbered by tie fighters. There are 10x as many star destroyers there than republic fighters, there should have literally been about 100,000 tie fighters crushing the attack in seconds. Imagine you're about to launch your biggest fleet ever to finally take back control and ¬20 ships show up. 'Shall we send all the tie fighters just in case sir? This is the huge moment we absolutely can't afford anything to go wrong with!' 'No, just send a few it'll be fine.'
The kiss was unnecessary too, they went from hating each other to kissing as quickly as Anakin deciding to slaughter younglings.
Also what the feck are the ghosts of Luke, Yoda, Obi Wan, Qui Gon etc doing if they have the power to use the force and hold lightsabers even as ghosts? Why aren't they attacking Palpatine themselves.
And I know that 'the force of every Jedi lives inside you' is supposed to give them a pass for this, but Palpatine literally just waved his hand and overpowered both Rey and Ren, this is the man that even Yoda couldn't defeat in a duel, then on top of that he not only drained them both of their life force, but he added both of their life forces to his own that was already more powerful than the two of them combined, he then disables about 90,000 ships in the sky with a wave of his hand but that's no problem because she then just defeats him in a few seconds because she has not one but two light sabers. Why didn't Mace Windu think of that.
I know that Leia in the expanded universe which is now non canon had a lot of development regarding her Jedi training, but we've seen none of that whatsoever in these movies she's just been a princess/general until she did her Superman flying through space in the last movie. So with that in mind, we have flashbacks to her training as a Jedi, her lightsaber being gifted to Rey. It just seems like that brings more questions than it answers, which we no longer have the ability to pursue in future movies so it seemed needless to include it.
The knights of Ren were absolutely pointless characters. They did absolutely nothing in the first 2 films, and did nothing in this film other than follow Rey around a bit looking a bit menacing and then have a 5 second fight with Kylo that they were annihilated in. They added absolutely nothing to the films.
Rey's healing and force lightning makes sense given that she's Palpatines granddaughter and he had those powers it's literally in her blood so I can forgive that, but what the feck is with Palpatines son, her dad? Why is the son of the most powerful person in the universe not have any kind of power at all, he's just a random normie living in the desert.
Rey blowing up the transport ship then to say 'oh Chewie must have been on another transport!' there was no other transport. That's really dumb. Did Ren somehow cause everyone to see some kind of mirage? That made no sense.
The Republic fleet they brought at the end was beyond overkill. They make a point about how nobody came during one battle but all of a sudden Lando goes to a few planets and they now have the biggest fleet that we've ever seen in Star Wars coming to their aid? On top of that, before they showed up we're shown the republic fighters engaging the star destroyers and being somewhat outnumbered by tie fighters. There are 10x as many star destroyers there than republic fighters, there should have literally been about 100,000 tie fighters crushing the attack in seconds. Imagine you're about to launch your biggest fleet ever to finally take back control and ¬20 ships show up. 'Shall we send all the tie fighters just in case sir? This is the huge moment we absolutely can't afford anything to go wrong with!' 'No, just send a few it'll be fine.'
The kiss was unnecessary too, they went from hating each other to kissing as quickly as Anakin deciding to slaughter younglings.
Also what the feck are the ghosts of Luke, Yoda, Obi Wan, Qui Gon etc doing if they have the power to use the force and hold lightsabers even as ghosts? Why aren't they attacking Palpatine themselves.
And I know that 'the force of every Jedi lives inside you' is supposed to give them a pass for this, but Palpatine literally just waved his hand and overpowered both Rey and Ren, this is the man that even Yoda couldn't defeat in a duel, then on top of that he not only drained them both of their life force, but he added both of their life forces to his own that was already more powerful than the two of them combined, he then disables about 90,000 ships in the sky with a wave of his hand but that's no problem because she then just defeats him in a few seconds because she has not one but two light sabers. Why didn't Mace Windu think of that.
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Knights of Ren pretty much embody the Abrams mystery box. Introduce something that sounds mysterious and important, then when you have to actually do something with them, they end up as a bunch of bods with comedy weapons that point at stuff.
Fair
I find these critics/arguments blaming the fans to be more than a little irritating. All 3 of this new trilogy have been flat, poorly plotted, clunky dialogue with shallow characterization. Fans and their reactions and demands have not made the series this way, a lack of shared creative vision is the overriding feel of it. That comes from studio leadership.
As for rating this set of movies against the past, I still think Lucas screwing up the prequel trilogy was more frustrating, because I expected little from this set of 3. Just so bland and forgettable, thought probably better movies than the utter mess of 1-3, though I do give those bonus points, episode 2 especially for the quite ridiculous attractiveness of Natalie Portman.
As for rating this set of movies against the past, I still think Lucas screwing up the prequel trilogy was more frustrating, because I expected little from this set of 3. Just so bland and forgettable, thought probably better movies than the utter mess of 1-3, though I do give those bonus points, episode 2 especially for the quite ridiculous attractiveness of Natalie Portman.
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The first half of this movie was actually flawless. There was a turning point for me though where I begin to understand the criticism. But that first hour was brilliant. Much much much better than the last Jedi.
turning point for me was the resurrection of Ben. Some leaps I was fine with but others were ridiculous. 2nd act of this movie clearly had way too much going on. Was hard to keep track of what was happening and there was very little “breathing” allowed during the movie. It definitely felt rushed at times.
Luke’s ghost catching the lightsaber was ridiculous. Lando showing up with the largest rebellion fleet ever was just. Abrams was a bit too eager to please fans rather than do his own thing. That is one thing I will say. However, as a Star Wars, you just cannot hate this movie... seeing the emperor back, all the nostalgic elements, I loved it. Not as strong as the force awakens but certainly not as bad as most people are making it out to be. In fact the first hour of this movie was actually very good. The last Jedi obviously did a lot of damage and it was very evident in the rushed mess which happens in the 2nd half of this movie.
Luke’s ghost catching the lightsaber was ridiculous. Lando showing up with the largest rebellion fleet ever was just
. Abrams was a bit too eager to please fans rather than do his own thing. That is one thing I will say. However, as a Star Wars, you just cannot hate this movie... seeing the emperor back, all the nostalgic elements, I loved it. Not as strong as the force awakens but certainly not as bad as most people are making it out to be. In fact the first hour of this movie was actually very good. The last Jedi obviously did a lot of damage and it was very evident in the rushed mess which happens in the 2nd half of this movie.
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I couldn’t concentrate on any of the Leia scenes because of Charlie from Lost and that pilot who was in Heroes. Poor casting in my opinion, you just can’t have those guys playing those roles.
Without wanting to be controversial, I loved it. Large sweet and salty mixed popcorn and a Coke Zero and I was as happy as a pig in sh*t! No Oscar winner for sure but seriously, it was a Star Wars film, what was anyone expecting?
Too many plot holes, unanswered questions and the story was rehash.
Revenge of the Sith all the way, despite Palpatine tried yet again to save another Star Wars trilogy.
Quality control badly needed after this if they plan another installments.
I wanted to love this movie.
Quality control badly needed after this if they plan another installments.
I wanted to love this movie.
well done, Jar Jar Abrams, you've done it again
The first half of this movie was actually flawless. There was a turning point for me though where I begin to understand the criticism. But that first hour was brilliant. Much much much better than the last Jedi.
turning point for me was the resurrection of Ben. Some leaps I was fine with but others were ridiculous. 2nd act of this movie clearly had way too much going on. Was hard to keep track of what was happening and there was very little “breathing” allowed during the movie. It definitely felt rushed at times.
Luke’s ghost catching the lightsaber was ridiculous. Lando showing up with the largest rebellion fleet ever was just
Meh to nostalgia. ROTJ was 25 years ago, have the confidence to make a movie that stands on its own. This was, not quite awful, but really not far off.
Haven't seen a full Star Wars in nigh on 20 years but still very much enjoy these threads. Funny stuff.
Saw it this afternoon. Ehhhhh.
This is comfortably the worst of the sequels. It tries to cram two films' worth of plot into just one which means its major beats aren't given their due. It can't tell the difference between speed and momentum so it feels more exhausting than exciting. It answers almost every question within minutes of asking it and it resolves every risk it takes, so any greater sense of tension or conflict is lost. The first hour is an endless series of tedious side missions, forgettable side characters, and crowbarred exposition. The amount of deaths that get reversed, or turn out to be fake, or wind up with that same character coming back as a ghost, lost more of their impact every time they did it. This was JJ's attempt to cram his vision for episodes 8 & 9 into one film and boy does it show. It's too much in every sense of the word.
With that being said, this definitely retains the atmosphere I expect from these films. The characters alone are wonderful to spend time with, and they successfully pull off a lot of heavy lifting on their own - the actors do a great job of keeping things light and airy. And for all its pacing troubles, it's never boring and ticks along nicely. There were moments that were emotionally rewarding, and funny, and got the expected reaction out of me, so this wasn't a waste of time by any means. I even appreciated the way they rowed back on the things The Last Jedi introduced.
But my biggest problem is that this doesn't ever feel like a story. Not once. It's more of a series of moments and set pieces that are connected by a plot that's far too busy to let anything settle. Nothing breathes, no emotional arcs are established, no characters are really developed outside of Rey or Kylo. The Last Jedi has its critics but that really took the time to try something new and really investigate these characters. The Rise of Skywalker decides it would rather race through a checklist that's far too long and delivered in a way that's scattered and disorganised.
This isn't bad by any means, but it is very, very average.
With that being said, this definitely retains the atmosphere I expect from these films. The characters alone are wonderful to spend time with, and they successfully pull off a lot of heavy lifting on their own - the actors do a great job of keeping things light and airy. And for all its pacing troubles, it's never boring and ticks along nicely. There were moments that were emotionally rewarding, and funny, and got the expected reaction out of me, so this wasn't a waste of time by any means. I even appreciated the way they rowed back on the things The Last Jedi introduced.
But my biggest problem is that this doesn't ever feel like a story. Not once. It's more of a series of moments and set pieces that are connected by a plot that's far too busy to let anything settle. Nothing breathes, no emotional arcs are established, no characters are really developed outside of Rey or Kylo. The Last Jedi has its critics but that really took the time to try something new and really investigate these characters. The Rise of Skywalker decides it would rather race through a checklist that's far too long and delivered in a way that's scattered and disorganised.
This isn't bad by any means, but it is very, very average.
I don’t really understand how they can bring palpatine back and just not explain how he’s even there? The last time we saw him on screen he was thrown down a shaft and then blown into pieces just after, don’t the audience deserve an explanation?
But no, it’s just the same as how that little orange thing found Luke’s lightsaber in the TFA. “Who cares how, let’s just do it.” Speaking of Luke’s lightsaber, how is it back, despite being ripped in half in the last film?
But no, it’s just the same as how that little orange thing found Luke’s lightsaber in the TFA. “Who cares how, let’s just do it.” Speaking of Luke’s lightsaber, how is it back, despite being ripped in half in the last film?
Though nothing will ever beat The Walking Dead thread for that.
The shear agony of people's hopes being built up by 1 good episode, to then trying to find the good in the next 15 as it slowly dawned on them it was the same season over and over and over again, was almost as hilarious as the fact they still felt the need to defend it to the death.
Brilliant fun
The arguments and reactions surrounding the films are much more fun than the films themselves.
Just saw it. Liked the first 2/3 okay, then it just got to be too much. Felt like a greatest hits.
It was weird to say the least. Basically like a high budget fan-fic. Some fun set pieces but most of the plot didn't make much sense.
Fans are too clever for our own good. We both want and don't want fan service, we both want and don't want our theories to become canon, we both want and don't want jokes and humour, we both want and don't want our nostalgia to be pandered to. We want a relastic, down to earth show that's completely off the wall and swarming with magic robots.The new one is getting panned by the fans for the same reasons that they praised Abrams first one for, and when Johnson tried to something different it was too too much and unfaithful.
For me it all felt very forced.
If the plan all along was to bring back Palpatine could they have at least some how done it in the last film?
If the plan all along was to bring back Palpatine could they have at least some how done it in the last film?
Different directors with different ideas. Rian Johnson made life very difficult for Abrams. I reckon Snoke was meant to be the main villain.
I'll have to check it out.
Though nothing will ever beat The Walking Dead thread for that.
I don't mean to be a total snark about it though. I imagine it's been pretty thankless being a Star Wars fan ever since Lucas began sabotaging his own vision. But I guess the eternal optimism of the fans is heartening, even as their Frankenstein of a franchise is pimped out by the Lucas/Disney marketing department. The various schisms within the fandom are sometimes intriguing and often funny to follow, more so when you have no reference to go by.
I lasted about 50 minutes of The Force Awakens before deciding that I couldn't justify sitting through any more of these stodgy films, on the off chance that a muppety creatures so exotically unmissable might appear. I guess that's partly why the bitesize Mandalorian show seems tailor made for me.
That’s the thing, they claim it was the plan all along. How they expect people to believe that I have no idea though.
Chemistry is shit, character development is shit, plotholes all overs.
No redeeming features at all....
This is Disney adventure movies all over, it's not star wars. I'm fine with feel good movies that makes money, but as a star wars fans this is aberration
No redeeming features at all....
This is Disney adventure movies all over, it's not star wars. I'm fine with feel good movies that makes money, but as a star wars fans this is aberration
I see what you did there.
Majorly disagree with the first 2 points but yes the potholes are a problem. Won’t expand on it in case of spoilers.