Looks terrible. No one needed or wanted a Section 31 series
Television Star Trek
- Thread starter Raoul
- Start date
from Sloan (DS9) to that.
Looks lots of millions that could have been better spent elsewhere.
to me, DS9 is the best ST show overall, but it requires a bit time to reach the level of TNG.
it's just how it is with those huge story arcs. there simply have to be some building first. the number of characters is incredible and almost all of them are there to stay until the end.
everyone always praised DS9 for it's action - war episodes and battle scenes, but to me it was always about acting and dialogues.
there's just something about this idea of soap opera in space to what DS9 is very close to sometimes, and it's probably why I loved Babylon 5 so much as well.
it's a space station, it was always going to be more about characters and less about exploring the space. plus, there's much more politics than science and later it fully transforms into a pure war show = even less "science".
honestly, I can't see how any ST fan couldn't love this show yet it was precisely the case when it came out.
If you could develop a new Trek series based on the best bits of everything you've watched lately, what would you add to it ?
Oh now that’s a question, needs some serous though.
Off the top of my head a series about the Terren universe would be good, lots of scope to start in Kirk’s era
Didn't they do a bit of that in Enterprise?
Doesn't look the first thing like Star Trek of any kind.
Literally just Marvel/Disney Star Wars shite with a ST badge slapped on it.
I bit yes, but I think a series would work.
I'd like to move forward in time and maybe bring the Breen into the equation. Maybe a power struggle within the federation and a civil war.
I saying that I've not caught up on discovery, pickard and haven't started strange new worlds. I haven't entertained watching the cartoon stuff.
Ive watched all the Enterprise, TOS, TNG, DS9 & Voyager (actually watching this through again, onto the last season)
I prefer season arcs. I like side stories within an overall season arc.
The Breen are a very good shout.
Arc or individual eps, I have to say I like both.
TOS and TNG worked well with individual eps , Voyager and DS9 work better with the story arc and all the side stories, DS9 especially.
Babylon 5 was mentioned earlier, I think that is easy on a par with the best of any Trek and it had the best ending of anything I have watched, something that Star Trek struggled with.
It's hardly the biggest problem with this, but that one line
"we're facing a threat unlike Starfleet has ever faced"
is such a massive problem with nuTrek. 95% of Trek episodes have no massive threat. When it comes (like the Borg), it's a serious rare thing.
But, from what I know, every single season of nuTrek (other than SNW S1 and Lower Decks) is built around incomprehensible galaxy-ending nonsense.
the way DS9 ended left plenty of material to work with without going too far into the future and plenty of characters to bring back from the dead as well. there's really no need to invent stuff and change the previously set rules.
post Dominion War years were never revisited. Cardassia is literally in ruins, poverty and famine awaits good parts of its population and they're slowly losing parts of their territory as they can't fully defend their borders anymore + add some angry Bajorans wanting to get even now when the tables turned.
Klingons and Federation utterly exhausted, while Romulans have no use for the alliance anymore and are happy to exploit the chaos in quadrant while awaiting destruction of their own planet as well (happened prior to events in Picard). that alone is enough to get started. it would be a gold mine for any good writer, easily.
after a while you start introducing Section 31 again, and the cold reality of future where dilithium supply in galaxy is going to dry up one day. this gives you space to write characters such as Sloan (DS9), who can act as baddies for a while since they represent parts of Federation willing to get their hands dirty. make them put their hands on dil. deposit they have no rights to touch and so you can have medium sized conflict against Xindi who are finally back. that's seasons 3 and 4 sorted.
if the show is still alive at that point, introduce that Voth species from Delta quadrant that originated on Earth 60 mill. y ago and would like to reclaim their home back now, with humans to feck off somewhere else or... well, that's seasons 5 and 6 sorted.
the ingredients are there. I managed to write that in about 16 minutes. if anything, revisiting stuff from previous shows is a must for me.
Picard abandoned that almost entirely which is why the show felt so disconnected from everything in ST universe and I didn't like that at all. the show starts only about 15-20 years after the events in DS9, yet you would have thought it's one of those alt. universe episodes.
I didn't hate it completely in the end, but most topics that the show covered are coincidentally those I'm not that interested in, at least not enough to want them to be the main plot. meaning, feck of with your synthetics and alternate realities, I don't care for that compared to some other stuff they never revisited.
for start, get decent actors and writers. second, ST isn't some ordinary show so this idea of ST "lite" needs to die. even simple shows such as Walking Dead had 16 episodes per season. you aren't getting close to prime Star Trek with so little content. which is kinda the only problem these days, the ambition simply isn't there. ST will never get massive again.
post Dominion War years were never revisited. Cardassia is literally in ruins, poverty and famine awaits good parts of its population and they're slowly losing parts of their territory as they can't fully defend their borders anymore + add some angry Bajorans wanting to get even now when the tables turned.
Klingons and Federation utterly exhausted, while Romulans have no use for the alliance anymore and are happy to exploit the chaos in quadrant while awaiting destruction of their own planet as well (happened prior to events in Picard). that alone is enough to get started. it would be a gold mine for any good writer, easily.
after a while you start introducing Section 31 again, and the cold reality of future where dilithium supply in galaxy is going to dry up one day. this gives you space to write characters such as Sloan (DS9), who can act as baddies for a while since they represent parts of Federation willing to get their hands dirty. make them put their hands on dil. deposit they have no rights to touch and so you can have medium sized conflict against Xindi who are finally back. that's seasons 3 and 4 sorted.
if the show is still alive at that point, introduce that Voth species from Delta quadrant that originated on Earth 60 mill. y ago and would like to reclaim their home back now, with humans to feck off somewhere else or... well, that's seasons 5 and 6 sorted.
the ingredients are there. I managed to write that in about 16 minutes. if anything, revisiting stuff from previous shows is a must for me.
Picard abandoned that almost entirely which is why the show felt so disconnected from everything in ST universe and I didn't like that at all. the show starts only about 15-20 years after the events in DS9, yet you would have thought it's one of those alt. universe episodes.
I didn't hate it completely in the end, but most topics that the show covered are coincidentally those I'm not that interested in, at least not enough to want them to be the main plot. meaning, feck of with your synthetics and alternate realities, I don't care for that compared to some other stuff they never revisited.
for start, get decent actors and writers. second, ST isn't some ordinary show so this idea of ST "lite" needs to die. even simple shows such as Walking Dead had 16 episodes per season. you aren't getting close to prime Star Trek with so little content. which is kinda the only problem these days, the ambition simply isn't there. ST will never get massive again.
Agreed on TOS and TNG. I'm not sure how that sort of thing would be received in the present given that most series these days are serialized season arcs. Enterprise seasons 3 and 4 were some of the best season arcs I've see from Trek as well.
agreed on Enterprise, its been a while since I watched it.
26 eps series dont work any more, 6,10- 12 max these day and I quite like that, 26 ep series are a long slog.
yep. S1 of Discovery was pretty much still on the classic path. you had war with the Klingons and that's it. Federation lose, tough luck, life goes on.
S2... was interesting and we got Pike, but started the trend of Michael basically turning into the member of Avengers and everything since that moment was pretty much fight for the survival of all universe.
I was actually among those rare ones here praising Discovery yet I gave up in the middle of the last season and I never thought I'd do that when it comes to ST.
I endured episodes with Neelix mostly cooking, holo doctor singing and Chakotay boxing.
Michael Burnham though... it's incredible that no one in studio had issues with such character around.
Cracking post.
Haha I just remembered, there's a Voyager channel here, every single time I start it I see Neelix's stupid face first thing and start muttering in digust at the screen.
I actually gave up after Discovery season 1 itself. Just too dark and the whole story was so drastically stupid (the resolution at the end was that some individual Klingon has to hold a detonator or something???!!!). With the tardigrade and other things, they'd already dialed the idealism down to zero. Why even call it Trek.
I love DS9 but thought that more of the same (massive galaxy-wide conflict) would be overkill. Trek primarily got its cult following from TOS and TNG which are mostly exploration shows.
An idea I had a few years ago was basically not far from Lower Decks. Mid-level ship, mid-level people, lower-tier exploration, or research, or diplomatic missions, or skirmishes. Not the Federation flagship with the best crew, always at the front lines and doing first contact. But, unlike LD, not a comedy, everything is still taken seriously. Genuinely I don't care if every other series is being grand and with season/series arcs, episodic Trek will still have a sustainable audience.
Also about the discontinuity from DS9 -> nuTrek - I haven't really kept up with this, but isn't Romulus finished because they take the rubbish 2009 reboot movies seriously?
I get what you are saying. those were just couple of instant ideas anyway from the most common timeline which I love the most. it's not just TNG and DS9, Voyager also returned to Earth so we have 3 shows sharing basically the same era. which is why my ideal new ST show would most likely be doing the same if I was behind it, with so many stories ready to be continued in any way.
I like your idea btw. I could easily imagine it working, but it would need to have nice set of characters and great casting in general to justify watching them in such roles in the long run. whether I'd trust those who worked on recent ST shows to succeed in that... is entirely different matter.
when you think about it, the characters people love the most in new shows are almost always the ones "borrowed" from previous shows, while those newly introduced ones are pretty much all utterly forgettable. I still have nightmares from Ralphie or whatever she was called and that Latino guy from Picard... yikez.
on the other hand, Discovery peaked when Pike was teleported on the bridge for the first time. Picard escaped the shitness of S2 the moment it started introducing old TNG crew. even SNW, as good as it was, had its best moment when they basically recreated TOS episode and introduced Kirk.
it will actually be interesting to see the next Trek without any of the characters from previous series and how long it will last, because the writers haven't be able to introduce any new memorable character for a while now. ENT was the last to try with entirely new crew and got canceled. Discovery had Spock and Pike for a season, but the rest were frequently bashed.
as for Romulus, yes. first they mentioned it in the movie, then they expanded it in the opening 2 episodes of Picard. he resigned because the Federation wouldn't send ships to help them leave the planet or something like that.
Finished DS9, I realised that I had not seen quite a bit of season 7 and none of that last 10 eps.
DS9 has everything you want in a ST series, very few eps that I skipped.
The story arc in season 7 from ep20 The Changing Face of Evil to the Finale has for me some of the best trek of any series and I think is the best multi episode arc in all of ST
Has for the Finale What you leave behind, fantastic, wrapped up DS9 near perfectly.
DS9 is definitely my second best ST series after TNG.
DS9 has everything you want in a ST series, very few eps that I skipped.
The story arc in season 7 from ep20 The Changing Face of Evil to the Finale has for me some of the best trek of any series and I think is the best multi episode arc in all of ST
Has for the Finale What you leave behind, fantastic, wrapped up DS9 near perfectly.
DS9 is definitely my second best ST series after TNG.