She looks like a baddie from Insurrection.
I’m also finding the story really uninteresting to be honest. Two episodes left though so may as well see it out
Television Star Trek
- Thread starter Raoul
- Start date
She looks like a baddie from Insurrection.
I’m also finding the story really uninteresting to be honest. Two episodes left though so may as well see it out
To anyone screaming FAN SERVICE with utter rage following episode 9, I can only say this:
Well, I was right. I can accept that as a plot, it works ok, they could have been a little more subtle about it rather than slapping everyone across the face with the Borg references constantly. The old "fleets new system being compromised" storyline is a bit lame though. BSG did it so much better, in fact now that I come to think of it, they're basically nicking the plot of BSG just without the murdering of billions of people.
Guess they worked out a way to remove the weirdness of Captain Shaw not actually doing any Captaining on his ship.
Funny to see Shelby back in a Borg related episode only for her to be killed immediately too.
Guess they worked out a way to remove the weirdness of Captain Shaw not actually doing any Captaining on his ship.
Funny to see Shelby back in a Borg related episode only for her to be killed immediately too.
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Well that was a fecking awesome episode of Picard. Proper Star Trek.
My favourite Enterprise.To anyone screaming FAN SERVICE with utter rage following episode 9, I can only say this:
Well that was pretty fecking good wasn't it!
To anyone screaming FAN SERVICE with utter rage following episode 9, I can only say this:
I was actually elated that we could finally see a set with good lighting. The dark sets in each of the recent ST shows have been incredibly annoying.
I thought the same. Actually, when the lights just started and it was still rather dark I wondered if it'll stay that way.
There's good fan service and there's bad fan service. This is great fan service. Yes, there's a lot of it, but they're squeezing in what should have been three seasons worth into one. After the whimper finish of Nemesis, the awful first two seasons of Picard and the fact this is this full cast's last chance, it's well earnt and if not now then never. I wish Matalis had been given this show sooner instead of people who clearly never liked Star Trek to begin with. My criticism is that this story and these references deserved more than 10 hours. That said, even as a die-hard TNG fan, this is easily the most consistently good 10 hours we've ever spent with these characters.
I don't understand why anyone finds this annoying. It's become one of those go-to cliches, but it just looks cool and not like an 80s television studio with a very limited lighting rig! The movie budgets always brought us darker sets, except in the "Kelvin" timeline and The Motion Picture, but they took completely different production design choices. The integration of LCARS design into The Titan is beautiful.
What seems strange to me is that the Enterprise D now looks more like a model than it ever did when it was an actual model. As a kid, I though the D was primitive CG.
Anyway, thrilled about this! It's the last adventure it deserves.
I don't understand why anyone finds this annoying. It's become one of those go-to cliches, but it just looks cool and not like an 80s television studio with a very limited lighting rig! The movie budgets always brought us darker sets, except in the "Kelvin" timeline and The Motion Picture, but they took completely different production design choices. The integration of LCARS design into The Titan is beautiful.
What seems strange to me is that the Enterprise D now looks more like a model than it ever did when it was an actual model. As a kid, I though the D was primitive CG.
Anyway, thrilled about this! It's the last adventure it deserves.
Dark sets where you can't properly see things is obviously annoying, as is the poor sound design where the voices of actors are drowned out by sound effects (ie. they are too low). Ultimately, I prefer actual sets such as TOS, TNG, or DS9. It was so nice to see the TNG set yesterday where you could once again see all the consoles and gadgets on the deck.
I'm not sure what it is you can't see, but then I guess we can't see it. Jefferies tube?
The sound mix is just the nature of us now having the ability to play with a high dynamic range. It's a universal problem in modern media, though not one I've noticed in this show. In fact, there have been many an audio call back I've enjoyed.
My only complaint is they dragged out the Jack stuff for 8 episodes and then we get only one and a half episodes of the main confrontation everything has built towards
LIGHTS!!!!
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I almost cried. God im such a trek nerd 
It feels like a film script expanded and filled out for a 10 episode show.
I'm not as keen as you guys and certainly wasn't close to tears watching it.
Think we'll need to accept a few silly moments in the finale to allow 1 starship to beat off a huge fleet. Captain Janeway to the rescue, she'll kick the Borg Queen in the nuts with her withering stares. Here's hoping we get a cameo of Ensign Kim still being an Ensign aged 50 odd. That would make me very happy.
I'm not as keen as you guys and certainly wasn't close to tears watching it.
Think we'll need to accept a few silly moments in the finale to allow 1 starship to beat off a huge fleet. Captain Janeway to the rescue, she'll kick the Borg Queen in the nuts with her withering stares. Here's hoping we get a cameo of Ensign Kim still being an Ensign aged 50 odd. That would make me very happy.
It feels like a film script expanded and filled out for a 10 episode show.
I'm not as keen as you guys and certainly wasn't close to tears watching it.
Think we'll need to accept a few silly moments in the finale to allow 1 starship to beat off a huge fleet. Captain Janeway to the rescue, she'll kick the Borg Queen in the nuts with her withering stares. Here's hoping we get a cameo of Ensign Kim still being an Ensign aged 50 odd. That would make me very happy.
I don’t want the finale if there isn’t an ensign Kim who is still an ensign
I don't know, maybe I'm cynical, but I think this is still mostly crap. Like a greatest hits record with poor production. It has its moments like Worf saying those nice things to Deanna right in front of Riker, but that's pretty much it.
Oh yeah, it’s complete fecking schlock. The mystery villain was … the most famous and predictable villains that they used in the last series. The entire evil plot hung on the chosen one-esque genetic importance of the main character and his previously unmentioned surprise son (who he had at, what, 60?) and the comfy nostalgia is so cynically spoon fed for OG fans that the plot is literally that everyone under 25 is a mindless unthinking drone and only the decrepit old boomers and their outdated technology can save the Universe!
But hey, they lit the set properly!!
Its full of plotholes and issues
1.Why didnt the borg assimilate the changlings?[
2. Borg control the USS Titan now which has a cloaking device, meanng Borg should assimilate cloacking technology.
3. How did the changlings find the borg anyway?
4. What happens to all the changlings in starfleet now the borg starfleet are killing anyome who hasnt been assimilated?
5. Why would changlings work with the borg who are solids. Whats in it for them?
6. Why do the borg need the changlings when a dozen cubes will probably takeout the federation entirely?/SPOILER]
2. Borg control the USS Titan now which has a cloaking device, meanng Borg should assimilate cloacking technology.
3. How did the changlings find the borg anyway?
4. What happens to all the changlings in starfleet now the borg starfleet are killing anyome who hasnt been assimilated?
5. Why would changlings work with the borg who are solids. Whats in it for them?
6. Why do the borg need the changlings when a dozen cubes will probably takeout the federation entirely?/SPOILER]
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Agree that the "villian" has been overused far too much, just like the xenomorph in aliens, the impact isnt there anymore. ST needs a new villian species, not had any since species 8472 and hyrogen.
Wonder which Nu Trek will introduce the "Lihn Zhee", whos skull was seen in picards trophy room in season 2.
I'm quite enjoying it, but I have to admit that the title of 'best trek since the pre-Abrams days' isn't much of an accolade. I'm just enjoying it for what it is, and that it is a huge upgrade on the dross being served up across all these series for the past few years.
this show is a mess... but, after the ending of the 9th episode, I don't really care anymore. it made everything worthwhile. imagine Weghorst being crap for the whole 90 minutes and then scoring the winner in the last minute. on Anfield. with us playing with red card since first half. of course everything is forgiven
couldn't care less what will happen in the last episode, I got what I needed.
couldn't care less what will happen in the last episode, I got what I needed.
These aren't plotholes or issues.
1. They were working with the Changelings, why would they assimilate them? They served a purpose. They clearly already had some control over them as Handface was able to alter Vadic's form.
2. The Borg have already assimilated species who have cloaking technology before, they have no real need for it. It goes against what they are.
3. Vadic was kept at Daystrom along with Borg equipment (the Vinculum). Entirely possible she activated it.
4. Well we won't know until the final episode, will we?
5. The enemy of my enemy is my friend.
6. The Borg were crippled by Janeway at the end of Endgame, it's entirely possible they don't have dozens of cubes left. Even if they did then Starfleet has shown that it can ruin their plans more than once. If you want a boring answer: because then there would be no Star Trek.
2. The Borg have already assimilated species who have cloaking technology before, they have no real need for it. It goes against what they are.
3. Vadic was kept at Daystrom along with Borg equipment (the Vinculum). Entirely possible she activated it.
4. Well we won't know until the final episode, will we?
5. The enemy of my enemy is my friend.
6. The Borg were crippled by Janeway at the end of Endgame, it's entirely possible they don't have dozens of cubes left. Even if they did then Starfleet has shown that it can ruin their plans more than once. If you want a boring answer: because then there would be no Star Trek.
They are plotholes/issues because they havent been explained in the show itself. Your make assumptions.
And you’re assuming the points you have made won’t be addressed in the finale…
Klingons are back to being Klingons! Oh, I love this show.
Looks promising. One thing they could do without is episodes where they go back to present day earth.
Hoping for more screen time to Nurse Chapel this season!
I still can’t believe season 2 of Picard spent half of its time in that setting.
Excellent finale to a great final season. I want more.
They had their Luke Skywalker Mandalorian moment.
The question is, will they actually learn from this unlike Disney who carried on being stubborn with their views of what Star Wars should be?
The question is, will they actually learn from this unlike Disney who carried on being stubborn with their views of what Star Wars should be?
Well, since some of the disasters of recent years we had the third season of Picard and first season of SNW - both of which were excellent. So... Maybe?
I guess spoilers below as this isn't officially out here yet...
Well, I enjoyed that series immensely, although I actually didn't think large parts of the final episode hit the mark. The Borg stuff felt like a re-run and wasn't as much fun as the Vadic and the Changelings. I also felt you could see the limitations of the budget, even more than earlier in the series when they reused the Matalis Prime and Ten Forward sets over and over. That doesn't really matter though. I thought the human stories were good, everyone was left in the right place and it was an excellent goodbye to TNG cast. I'll overlook Jack's acceleration to the bridge crew, I could have done without Q and if this does continue, it must do so without the fan service.
Hopefully!
It's a shame that respecting a franchises lore and general past is so rare nowadays. Look what happens when you actually do that.
Well, I just finished my binge of the season and I have to say that it sucks. It sucks that it's over that it is, that was brilliant. Felt like I was watching Star Trek again, and not the trash that has been wearing its corpse for the past few years. It wasn't perfect by any stretch, but the parts that worked, worked so well that it was easy to just make up head cannon to get past it. I didn't tear up in episode nine, but I did find myself smiling like a fecking idiot ear to ear. What did get me though was the father and son stuff, having no relationship with my own father I always find stories about fathers and sons to be interesting.
Seeing the old crew back together again really did underline just how well these people played off each other. The chemistry they all share is just priceless, and hard to find in modern tv. Disco certainly never managed it. The characters, even fecking Raffi who I hated in the first 2 seasons is redeemed here with MUCH better writing for the character. Worf had some of the best lines delivered perfectly with the deadpan Worf style Dorn does so well. And Riker, absolute stand out. The first couple of episodes he slides right back into the role of protector to his captain, demanding respect be shown when faced with other characters putting him down. Something that was sorely missed in the first 2 seasons as Picard sat there being the punching bag for a generation of insecurities. Seven, who had felt out of place before, slots in perfectly and actually feels like Seven again. She's still the Seven for seasons 1 and 2, but theres a quality to her character that was missing from her Voyager days. A quit reservedness is the best I can describe it. Shaw I think was the biggest success. Todd Stashwick has made a career out of being the biggest prick in the room no matter what show he's been in. So to see Shaw get a full character arc that shows he's more than just some toxic white male that needs to be slapped around, and see that he's not only got a really good reason for how he acts at first, but that he's not a dick. He just does things differently. He and Ryan played off each other really well, and it's a shame we won't see any more of that.
And finally Amanda Plummer knocks it out the park as Vadic. I didn't think much of the character from the trailer, but once she got going she was awesome. Towards the end really made you feel bad for her as well considering her treatment at the hands of section 31. I won't say she's on the level of Khan, but she's pretty damn close.
As for the over all story, I felt it was restricted probably by budget as the high-ups had obviously given up on it and just palmed it off to Terry Matalas to write it on his own. The conspiracy in starfleet felt too out of the way, too remote. Not like in DS9 were you felt the walls coming in around in that show. Probably a matter of time constraints as well. The Borg at this point feel really over played. I understand the decision to go this way, but it's hurt by the previous two seasons also being Borg heavy. The changelings were a nice touch, and I liked the fact that they updated them and had them coming from a place of anger at how some of them were treated during the war as POWs and how quickly the federation had gone to bio warfare almost right out of the gate. It felt like a natural consequence of section 31s actions.
As for the fan service. I think it works here. It's done in a loving way as a love letter to the fans, rather than to do the heavy lifting for a substandard plot or characters. Memberberries are a horrible crutch in current tv trends, but I didn't ever get the feeling thats what was happening here. It was fan service, sure. But it was good, loving fan service for a franchise that has meant so much to so many people for almost 60 years. And this was a love letter and an ending to a particular era of the franchise. If youre between 40 and 100 years old, this was probably the Star Trek you watched growing up. And the Star Trek your mother and father showed to you when they want to show something that they grew up watching. This was more like flipping through an old family photo album that it was memberberry bullshit.
The really unfortunate thing is that while I loved this season, there are no plans to continue trek in this fashion. Star Trek legacy as Matalas has coined it has concepts in place should he ever get a green light. He says he's already talked about going forward with Ryan, Speleers and funnily enough, Stashwick. They are all on board for a spin off, yet we aren't getting it. What we are getting is more Disco, a Disco spin off called starfleet academy, more Strange new worlds in the form of seasons 2 and 3 which is just starting to film as well as more of Lower decks and Prodigy(Im shocked to say, this is actually really good. And its for kids!!). Kurtzman has been trying to get Section 31 done for a number of years now with paramount telling him no repeatedly. He reworks it and keeps coming back at them. They have finally given in and compromised for a tv movie. Kurtzman was supposedly really pissed off about Goldsman getting Strange new worlds greenlit as he had that production slot earmarked for Section 31. So really the Trek franchise going forward is more of the same. Which, Im ok with in terms of lower decks, prodigy and somewhat with strange new worlds. But the Disco stuff? Thats gonna be a hard pass. It really is astonishing that Terry Matalas managed to make something that is not only getting critical recognition but fan recognition as well, and the boys at paramount think more disco is the way to go. It's the same dumb nonsense thats going on at Star Wars. "How do we fix our broken franchises? I know, let's do more of the stuff people hated. That will work!!".
All in all, I loved Picard season 3. More a ten hour 5th movie than an 8th season of TNG. But I loved it. Respecting a franchise and its characters, who knew that was how to make good tv?
Seeing the old crew back together again really did underline just how well these people played off each other. The chemistry they all share is just priceless, and hard to find in modern tv. Disco certainly never managed it. The characters, even fecking Raffi who I hated in the first 2 seasons is redeemed here with MUCH better writing for the character. Worf had some of the best lines delivered perfectly with the deadpan Worf style Dorn does so well. And Riker, absolute stand out. The first couple of episodes he slides right back into the role of protector to his captain, demanding respect be shown when faced with other characters putting him down. Something that was sorely missed in the first 2 seasons as Picard sat there being the punching bag for a generation of insecurities. Seven, who had felt out of place before, slots in perfectly and actually feels like Seven again. She's still the Seven for seasons 1 and 2, but theres a quality to her character that was missing from her Voyager days. A quit reservedness is the best I can describe it. Shaw I think was the biggest success. Todd Stashwick has made a career out of being the biggest prick in the room no matter what show he's been in. So to see Shaw get a full character arc that shows he's more than just some toxic white male that needs to be slapped around, and see that he's not only got a really good reason for how he acts at first, but that he's not a dick. He just does things differently. He and Ryan played off each other really well, and it's a shame we won't see any more of that.
And finally Amanda Plummer knocks it out the park as Vadic. I didn't think much of the character from the trailer, but once she got going she was awesome. Towards the end really made you feel bad for her as well considering her treatment at the hands of section 31. I won't say she's on the level of Khan, but she's pretty damn close.
As for the over all story, I felt it was restricted probably by budget as the high-ups had obviously given up on it and just palmed it off to Terry Matalas to write it on his own. The conspiracy in starfleet felt too out of the way, too remote. Not like in DS9 were you felt the walls coming in around in that show. Probably a matter of time constraints as well. The Borg at this point feel really over played. I understand the decision to go this way, but it's hurt by the previous two seasons also being Borg heavy. The changelings were a nice touch, and I liked the fact that they updated them and had them coming from a place of anger at how some of them were treated during the war as POWs and how quickly the federation had gone to bio warfare almost right out of the gate. It felt like a natural consequence of section 31s actions.
As for the fan service. I think it works here. It's done in a loving way as a love letter to the fans, rather than to do the heavy lifting for a substandard plot or characters. Memberberries are a horrible crutch in current tv trends, but I didn't ever get the feeling thats what was happening here. It was fan service, sure. But it was good, loving fan service for a franchise that has meant so much to so many people for almost 60 years. And this was a love letter and an ending to a particular era of the franchise. If youre between 40 and 100 years old, this was probably the Star Trek you watched growing up. And the Star Trek your mother and father showed to you when they want to show something that they grew up watching. This was more like flipping through an old family photo album that it was memberberry bullshit.
The really unfortunate thing is that while I loved this season, there are no plans to continue trek in this fashion. Star Trek legacy as Matalas has coined it has concepts in place should he ever get a green light. He says he's already talked about going forward with Ryan, Speleers and funnily enough, Stashwick. They are all on board for a spin off, yet we aren't getting it. What we are getting is more Disco, a Disco spin off called starfleet academy, more Strange new worlds in the form of seasons 2 and 3 which is just starting to film as well as more of Lower decks and Prodigy(Im shocked to say, this is actually really good. And its for kids!!). Kurtzman has been trying to get Section 31 done for a number of years now with paramount telling him no repeatedly. He reworks it and keeps coming back at them. They have finally given in and compromised for a tv movie. Kurtzman was supposedly really pissed off about Goldsman getting Strange new worlds greenlit as he had that production slot earmarked for Section 31. So really the Trek franchise going forward is more of the same. Which, Im ok with in terms of lower decks, prodigy and somewhat with strange new worlds. But the Disco stuff? Thats gonna be a hard pass. It really is astonishing that Terry Matalas managed to make something that is not only getting critical recognition but fan recognition as well, and the boys at paramount think more disco is the way to go. It's the same dumb nonsense thats going on at Star Wars. "How do we fix our broken franchises? I know, let's do more of the stuff people hated. That will work!!".
All in all, I loved Picard season 3. More a ten hour 5th movie than an 8th season of TNG. But I loved it. Respecting a franchise and its characters, who knew that was how to make good tv?
I agree with everything you've said. As for the future, I sort of don't really care that much. We finally have an end to the TNG story which isn't Nemesis or Picard time travelling around his mummy issues. I think we're on the same page with the other Trek, I'm happy to just not watch it. Should we get a Seven and Jack series, I'd give it a go, but I'd not have too much riding on it. This feels like an nice exit point for me.
It's like what didn't happen with Star Wars. I know many fans,. particularly of the wider cartoon/video game audience, did not like The Last Jedi, I loved it. So the backtracking and rehashing that was Rise of Skywalker was so bad it left me feeling stupid for liking Star Wars in the first place. Star Wars is now in the same Nemesis place TNG had been for the last twenty years. However, I don't see this franchise ever getting fixed, but they're going to keep throwing shit at the wall so they'll be an Andor to enjoy here and there.
Yeah I found it hilarious that the Borg would hatch a nefarious decades spanning plan to take over the Galaxy that hinged on a guy who's never wanted kids to have a kid. Like how the feck did they even know the Doctors kid was Picard's when Picard himself didn't have a clue.
i agree, the changling story line was much more interesting than the borg. The borg have been so overused in star trek that they lost their aura and fearsomeness a long time ago.
Maybe it would have been a step too far with the fan service, but they could have gotten Voyager and the Defiant out of mothball status and helped the enterprise D, with seven and worf commanding those ships. Afterall the Definant was built to fight the borg. A tridant of ships taking out the queens cube.
Someone should have died in the cube to give the episode some weight, ideally picard. But theres that chance of a guest appearance on Star Trek Legacy series for the TNG crew so they kept them all alive for that i guess.
Maybe i missed it, as i was watching the episode late at night, but why did no other federation worlds come to help defend earth? Andorians? Vulcans? etc etc
Maybe it would have been a step too far with the fan service, but they could have gotten Voyager and the Defiant out of mothball status and helped the enterprise D, with seven and worf commanding those ships. Afterall the Definant was built to fight the borg. A tridant of ships taking out the queens cube.
Someone should have died in the cube to give the episode some weight, ideally picard. But theres that chance of a guest appearance on Star Trek Legacy series for the TNG crew so they kept them all alive for that i guess.
Maybe i missed it, as i was watching the episode late at night, but why did no other federation worlds come to help defend earth? Andorians? Vulcans? etc etc
https://www.denofgeek.com/tv/star-trek-picard-different-ending-dead-character/
“We wanted Kate Mulgrew to be part of Seven of Nine’s promotion,” Matalas told MovieWeb, referring to Admiral Kathryn Janeway. Although he doesn’t get more specific, Matalas hinted at even more when talking to Variety, “We have wanted some more Voyager folks to come be part of Seven of Nine’s promotion to captain.”
Speaking of Tuvok, Matalas had written a scene of Starfleet rescuing the Vulcan from the Changelings, which included a compelling plot hook: “There was a scene in which they found Ro [Laren] in the dungeons of the Intrepid with Tuvok and that she had survived,” Matalas told MovieWeb.
Yes, you read that correctly: the sequence would have revealed that Michelle Forbes’ Ro Laren had in fact survived her apparent death in a shuttle explosion earlier in the season. Matalas even had a plan for how her return would have been explained in the finale, “[She] had been beamed off of her shuttle and was still being used by the Changelings for information.”
So why didn’t any of this happen, you ask? Matalas has a simple answer: money.
“It comes down to how many pennies you have left in the piggy bank after building a Borg cube and an Enterprise,” he told Variety. MovieWeb relates a much more forceful response from producers who read Matalas’s first script: “Are you out of your f*****g mind with these things?” Matalas claims a line producer told him. “You’re not Avengers: Endgame.”
“We wanted Kate Mulgrew to be part of Seven of Nine’s promotion,” Matalas told MovieWeb, referring to Admiral Kathryn Janeway. Although he doesn’t get more specific, Matalas hinted at even more when talking to Variety, “We have wanted some more Voyager folks to come be part of Seven of Nine’s promotion to captain.”
Speaking of Tuvok, Matalas had written a scene of Starfleet rescuing the Vulcan from the Changelings, which included a compelling plot hook: “There was a scene in which they found Ro [Laren] in the dungeons of the Intrepid with Tuvok and that she had survived,” Matalas told MovieWeb.
Yes, you read that correctly: the sequence would have revealed that Michelle Forbes’ Ro Laren had in fact survived her apparent death in a shuttle explosion earlier in the season. Matalas even had a plan for how her return would have been explained in the finale, “[She] had been beamed off of her shuttle and was still being used by the Changelings for information.”
So why didn’t any of this happen, you ask? Matalas has a simple answer: money.
“It comes down to how many pennies you have left in the piggy bank after building a Borg cube and an Enterprise,” he told Variety. MovieWeb relates a much more forceful response from producers who read Matalas’s first script: “Are you out of your f*****g mind with these things?” Matalas claims a line producer told him. “You’re not Avengers: Endgame.”
Hated the finale, they wasted a chance to make a great drama and went for an elongated fan service ending where everyone survived and was happy.
At the end, they could have killed Worf and / or Riker, instead Denna deus ex machina's a way of saving them. Felt it negated the whole series.
On the plus side, Brave New Worlds looks awesome, loved the first series.