Television Star Trek

I enjoyed watching Starship Down the first time in 90s. Shameless copy/paste of that episode. Every story beat is there.

Try to rescue another ship: check
Enter an astronomical body to escape: check
Fashion a kind of sonar: check
Have the captain close off a bulkhead with crew still behind that bulkhead: check
One of the command staff injured and needs another of the crew to step up: check
Two characters in the lower decks have to stop something from blowing up: check.
One of the crew has to learn to modify their command style to get the best of those serving under them: check

I get that Star Trek has always recycled a premise here and there. But this is out right lifting of a story, changing a few names, and then claiming its an original work. I really don't like new Star Trek. Its just not Star Trek, or its just shamelessly stealing from Star Trek of the past to pass it off as something new.
 
Norman Brownbutter said:
I enjoyed watching Starship Down the first time in 90s. Shameless copy/paste of that episode. Every story beat is there.

Try to rescue another ship: check
Enter an astronomical body to escape: check
Fashion a kind of sonar: check
Have the captain close off a bulkhead with crew still behind that bulkhead: check
One of the command staff injured and needs another of the crew to step up: check
Two characters in the lower decks have to stop something from blowing up: check.
One of the crew has to learn to modify their command style to get the best of those serving under them: check

I get that Star Trek has always recycled a premise here and there. But this is out right lifting of a story, changing a few names, and then claiming its an original work. I really don't like new Star Trek. Its just not Star Trek, or its just shamelessly stealing from Star Trek of the past to pass it off as something new.
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I think this may be down to the fact that Trek writers (especially in SNW) have worked on other Sci-Fi shows and are prone to using plot devices they know have worked elsewhere. For instance, the two guys that wrote episode 4 of SNW have backgrounds in Marvel, DC Comics, and Supernatural.

What I like about the series is they have fixed all of the things that were broken in Discovery and season 2 Picard, which has allowed SNW to get off to a solid start. Trek shows have historically had a problem of bad writing in season 1 (and 2 occasionally) resulting in writers getting fired and new ones being brought in to save the show. SNW doesn't look to have this problem, which suggests it will do very well.
 
Raoul said:
I think this may be down to the fact that Trek writers (especially in SNW) have worked on other Sci-Fi shows and are prone to using plot devices they know have worked elsewhere. For instance, the two guys that wrote episode 4 of SNW have backgrounds in Marvel, DC Comics, and Supernatural.

What I like about the series is they have fixed all of the things that were broken in Discovery and season 2 Picard, which has allowed SNW to get off to a solid start. Trek shows have historically had a problem of bad writing in season 1 (and 2 occasionally) resulting in writers getting fired and new ones being brought in to save the show. SNW doesn't look to have this problem, which suggests it will do very well.
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I quite strongly disagree with the idea that this is better written. The characters are still talking in that tween CW show kind of way. Its all about the quips, rather than people being professional in their work. I mean these are supposed to be "the best" star fleet has to offer. All I see is people trying to act cool or what they think teens think acting cool is like these days. Its all very shite way of talking. So you can imagine my lack of surprise at seeing that tonights show was written by two CW vets.

As for the writers in general, they are mostly the same people that did Disco and Picard. Kurtzman and Goldsman leading the way. Both hack writers who keep failing upwards. And so far from the 4 episodes of SNW that are, they have borrowed heavily(nicest way I can put it) from other trek writers in 3 of those 4. Like I said, recycling a premise or inspiration or taking some plot elements is one thing. But I can't pretend that stealing a story beat for beat is ok. We have really seen that Disco and Picard are shameless at pilfering other peoples work. And so it seems that trend is continuing in SNW.
 
Norman Brownbutter said:
I quite strongly disagree with the idea that this is better written. The characters are still talking in that tween CW show kind of way. Its all about the quips, rather than people being professional in their work. I mean these are supposed to be "the best" star fleet has to offer. All I see is people trying to act cool or what they think teens think acting cool is like these days. Its all very shite way of talking. So you can imagine my lack of surprise at seeing that tonights show was written by two CW vets.

As for the writers in general, they are mostly the same people that did Disco and Picard. Kurtzman and Goldsman leading the way. Both hack writers who keep failing upwards. And so far from the 4 episodes of SNW that are, they have borrowed heavily(nicest way I can put it) from other trek writers in 3 of those 4. Like I said, recycling a premise or inspiration or taking some plot elements is one thing. But I can't pretend that stealing a story beat for beat is ok. We have really seen that Disco and Picard are shameless at pilfering other peoples work. And so it seems that trend is continuing in SNW.
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I don't think we are getting rid of the quips altogether (although SNW is better than the other two recent shows at keeping a lid on them). Younger audiences of today (the ones that do most of the TV viewing) are not likely to take that much issue with them as the olds.

As for the writers, there are significant differences between Discovery, Picard 1 & 2, and SNW. Akiva and Kurtzman usually have a hand in writing the season premiers and finales, then outsource much the rest to a different set of writers each year. Picard 1 was largely driven by Michael Chabon, which resulted in a pretty good season imo. Season two was done during COVID, on top of which, they hired terrible writers.

Fortunately, other than the premier episode, none of SNW's writers appear to have played any part in Disovery or Picard, although they do have Sci-Fi backgrounds
 
Maybe it's the lack of good Trek recently that has me so impressed with this show, but goddamn was that a fun episode. It's 5 quality episodes out of 5 so far.
 
These "Strange New World's" episodes are just like modern version's of TOS. Pretty great so far.
 
This last “Spock Amok“ episode is what Star Trek was all bout when I was a kid. Humor for an episode and back to business.
 
Another great episode (6) in the veins of the old Trek, been great so far.
 
Just watched ep1, so refreshing to see somene can still make good tv from old favourites, hope Disney is taking notes.

It worth catching up on Discovery given its referenced? Only watched s1.
 
Simbo said:
Just watched ep1, so refreshing to see somene can still make good tv from old favourites, hope Disney is taking notes.

It worth catching up on Discovery given its referenced? Only watched s1.
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So Strange New Worlds is actually good? And not Discovery and Picard "good" where some odd people pretend it is good?
 
Bobski said:
So Strange New Worlds is actually good? And not Discovery and Picard "good" where some odd people pretend it is good?
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So far it has been excellent. Reminds me 100% of TNG with standalone episodes with a thread of continuity running through.
 
WI_Red said:
So far it has been excellent. Reminds me 100% of TNG with standalone episodes with a thread of continuity running through.
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Can it be true? Have they actually made a decent Star Trek?

I know people like Voyager and DS9 for some reason. Currently on season 1 in both of them, I keep trying to get hooked. When do they become good?
 
FreakyJim said:
Can it be true? Have they actually made a decent Star Trek?

I know people like Voyager and DS9 for some reason. Currently on season 1 in both of them, I keep trying to get hooked. When do they become good?
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DS9 gets to be really good in my opinion and it is my favorite of the ST series (Terry Farrell has 25% to do with this). I put Voyager behind TNG and TOS in a solid 4th. There is a chasm between 4 and 5 (if not counting any of the animated series).
 
FreakyJim said:
Can it be true? Have they actually made a decent Star Trek?

I know people like Voyager and DS9 for some reason. Currently on season 1 in both of them, I keep trying to get hooked. When do they become good?
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Voyager is...mediocre, it has some decent episodes but never really commits to the theme, there was a double parter where the ship started falling apart, they were running out of supplies, turning on each other, should have been a more present issue throughout. Gets better when 7 of 9 comes into the show, Voyager as a whole lacks strong characters. Janeway is good, Seven, The Doctor but other than that they are a bit dull.

DS9 really improved in the 3rd season, the first 2 have some good standalone episodes but a lot of rough ones at the same time, but it gets better and better from that point, and unlike Voyager it has a fantastic cast of Characters. Odo, Quark, O'Brien and Bashir, Dukat, Garak, I love Kira as well.

I missed Enterprise on its initial run and was surprised at how much I enjoyed it when I eventually got around to it. Archer is the dumbest captain but from the mid point of the second season it was really quite good, T'Pol did some hard carrying of that show.
 
Bobski said:
Voyager is...mediocre, it has some decent episodes but never really commits to the theme, there was a double parter where the ship started falling apart, they were running out of supplies, turning on each other, should have been a more present issue throughout. Gets better when 7 of 9 comes into the show, Voyager as a whole lacks strong characters. Janeway is good, Seven, The Doctor but other than that they are a bit dull.

DS9 really improved in the 3rd season, the first 2 have some good standalone episodes but a lot of rough ones at the same time, but it gets better and better from that point, and unlike Voyager it has a fantastic cast of Characters. Odo, Quark, O'Brien and Bashir, Dukat, Garak, I love Kira as well.

I missed Enterprise on its initial run and was surprised at how much I enjoyed it when I eventually got around to it. Archer is the dumbest captain but from the mid point of the second season it was really quite good, T'Pol did some hard carrying of that show.
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Enterprise 3 and 4 are some of the better Trek imo
 
Bobski said:
And the theme song?

Epic or Cringe?

My brother and I dueted on a rendition of that song on his Stag Party in Krakow many years ago, to impressive bar clearing effect.
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Hated it when it first came on, but it gradually grew on me. There was something different about the Enterprise cast that seemed to work well when there was good writing to back it up.
 
Raoul said:
Hated it when it first came on, but it gradually grew on me. There was something different about the Enterprise cast that seemed to work well when there was good writing to back it up.
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I think it is easier to relate to them. The Human characters in TNG/DS9/Voyager are all from an evolved Earth where social issues had been fixed, a paradise of learning. The Enterprise characters are not there yet, they are not the super competent leaders of a space federation, but people who screw up badly while also having the will to keep going.

Discovery and Picard tried to bring some of that to their shows but it didn't work, there was still a sincerity to the Enterpise crew, while Disc/Picard are all a bunch of nihilistic self obsessed dicks while also being super preachy at the same time. Not a good combination.
 
Bobski said:
So Strange New Worlds is actually good? And not Discovery and Picard "good" where some odd people pretend it is good?
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It's a nice blend of TNG and TOS. It's very character driven rather than having an 'epic' storyline saga. Personally i'm loving it and it may end up being my favourite season 1 of any Star Trek show. It isn't taking itself too seriously and the actors seem to have really good chemistry.
 
Bobski said:
So Strange New Worlds is actually good? And not Discovery and Picard "good" where some odd people pretend it is good?
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that depends on how much you like the characters, and how much the style of 90s trek youre invested in. The characters here still suffer from the same issues as the other new shows. Talking in todays TikTok obsessed tween speak, heavy handed "message" writing, and characters that act so the plot can move forward rather than the other way around. However, these issues aren't as bad as they were in Picard and Disco. The writing in general is A LOT better. As are the characters who when giving "the message" a body serve are actually pretty good and interesting. There is of course the elephant in the room, canon. They just don't give a feck about canon, and its kind of annoying to see them bang on about this being the prime timeline while also giving zero fecking about long form continuity. If the show bit the bullet and just said "feck it, we are in a different time line to all the other stuff" it would allow them greater freedom in the story telling and have a lot less nitpicking.

For example there was a reveal in the latest episode that could be a really interesting season arc for next year, if they embraced the alternate timeline stuff. Ill spoiler the rest just in case
Star Trek 5 kinda sucks. But it wasnt always that way. The original idea pitched by Shatner was a bit different. There was a part of it though that no one liked. In fact, Nimoy was pretty annoyed about it, as he didnt think that Spock would ever betray Kirk. Kelley thought the same thing. But if SNW did reboot this story, they could use Shatners original script, or at least the outline, and we could have the story of Star Trek 5 without the studio interference and budget restraints. Spock might not betray Kirk, but he might betray Pike being that he's younger here and still seemingly at odds within himself.

All in all, this show is far superior to Picard and disco. Its not even close to be honest. SNW is as close to older trek as we have gotten since 2009. Outside of the Orville that is. You can absolutely feel comfortable giving it a shot without worry that youre getting more Picard/disco dog shit, thats for sure.
 
FreakyJim said:
Can it be true? Have they actually made a decent Star Trek?

I know people like Voyager and DS9 for some reason. Currently on season 1 in both of them, I keep trying to get hooked. When do they become good?
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DS9 gets consistently good from season 3 onwards, but there are some real gems in the first 2 seasons that you don't want to miss.

Season 1 episodes to watch:

The Emissary. Introduction to all the characters and where it takes place.

Past Prologue. Focus is on Kira and Bajor. Give a you a look at her character, her back ground and how the occupation affected the people of Bajor.

A man Alone. Focus on Odo, and a murder mystery.

Captive Pursuit. Focus on O'Brien. Gives you a look at O'Briens character. If you don't like O'Brien, you could skip it.

The Nagus. I love all the Ferengi episodes, but Im told Im in the minority for this opinion.

Battle lines. This episode sets up a lot of the conflicts that come up latter on. Its an OK episodes, but you should watch it so you know why things are happening down the line.

Duet. WATCH IT!

In the hands of the Prophets. More political stuff and it leads into the season 2 3 part opener.

Season 2

The homecoming, the circle, the siege. Watch them all.

Invasive procedures. Only watch if you care about the whole Trill thing. Or think Terry Farrel is hot...

Rules of acquisition. Another Ferengi episodes, and another must watch.

Necessary evil. Back story of the characters and the station itself.

Sanctuary. This episode I didnt care for very much at the time I saw it. But on further viewings Ive come to appreciate what it was trying to do. Especially now that the subject matter has become a hot button issue for todays real world politics.

Rivals. Its an Odo focused episode and give you a look at his past and hints to more about him.

Whispers. An Obrien episode that I rather liked, but its stand alone. And you can skip it if you want.

Profit and loss. Quark episode with a lot of Cardassian stuff in it.

Blood Oath. Jadzia episode looking at the history of her previous host. Has some characters that show up again later on.

The Maquis part 1 and 2. Watch it.

The Wire. Garak episode. You'll learn a lot about Garak here...

Crossover. This one starts off a lot of one off that come back to this premise that it resurrected from the OG Star Trek.

The Collaborator. Lots of Bajorain politics stuff in this one. Its a must watch for how it sets up the rest of the series.

Tribunal. Another O'Brien episode, but give more insight in to the inner workings of the Cardassians.

The Jam'Hadar.
Oh, boy. This one is pretty innocent looking on its surface. But it sets up the major conflict for the rest of the series.

Thats my list. Others might differ slightly Im guessing. But, IMO, you can skip the rest. Season 3 onwards, you might have the occasional dud. But its mostly gold right the way through.
 
Bobski said:
I think it is easier to relate to them. The Human characters in TNG/DS9/Voyager are all from an evolved Earth where social issues had been fixed, a paradise of learning. The Enterprise characters are not there yet, they are not the super competent leaders of a space federation, but people who screw up badly while also having the will to keep going.

Discovery and Picard tried to bring some of that to their shows but it didn't work, there was still a sincerity to the Enterpise crew, while Disc/Picard are all a bunch of nihilistic self obsessed dicks while also being super preachy at the same time. Not a good combination.
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Both Discovery and Picard had their issues for different reasons - the former having weak writing, poor casting, and excessively cartoonish production design. I did enjoy Picard season one because the story arc was somewhat interesting. Season two seemed terrible for a number of reasons that have been discussed elsewhere.

The silver lining in the failures of both shows seems to have taught some valuable lessons learned that have been applied in season one of SNW, which has helped it get off to a very strong start. The casting has been exceptional, and you can tell they are investing a lot of time to develop characters early so audiences get hooked. I can’t think of any other Trek show that has started this strongly.
 
VidaRed said:
First two seasons of every trek show was shit.

Even babylon 5 was guilty of this.
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TKO, basically the cross species MMA episode is so bad it makes Lexx look like a quality show in comparison.

I love me some B5 but boy did it have some clunkers early.
 
Norman Brownbutter said:
DS9 gets consistently good from season 3 onwards, but there are some real gems in the first 2 seasons that you don't want to miss.

Season 1 episodes to watch:

The Emissary. Introduction to all the characters and where it takes place.

Past Prologue. Focus is on Kira and Bajor. Give a you a look at her character, her back ground and how the occupation affected the people of Bajor.

A man Alone. Focus on Odo, and a murder mystery.

Captive Pursuit. Focus on O'Brien. Gives you a look at O'Briens character. If you don't like O'Brien, you could skip it.

The Nagus. I love all the Ferengi episodes, but Im told Im in the minority for this opinion.

Battle lines. This episode sets up a lot of the conflicts that come up latter on. Its an OK episodes, but you should watch it so you know why things are happening down the line.

Duet. WATCH IT!

In the hands of the Prophets. More political stuff and it leads into the season 2 3 part opener.

Season 2

The homecoming, the circle, the siege. Watch them all.

Invasive procedures. Only watch if you care about the whole Trill thing. Or think Terry Farrel is hot...

Rules of acquisition. Another Ferengi episodes, and another must watch.

Necessary evil. Back story of the characters and the station itself.

Sanctuary. This episode I didnt care for very much at the time I saw it. But on further viewings Ive come to appreciate what it was trying to do. Especially now that the subject matter has become a hot button issue for todays real world politics.

Rivals. Its an Odo focused episode and give you a look at his past and hints to more about him.

Whispers. An Obrien episode that I rather liked, but its stand alone. And you can skip it if you want.

Profit and loss. Quark episode with a lot of Cardassian stuff in it.

Blood Oath. Jadzia episode looking at the history of her previous host. Has some characters that show up again later on.

The Maquis part 1 and 2. Watch it.

The Wire. Garak episode. You'll learn a lot about Garak here...

Crossover. This one starts off a lot of one off that come back to this premise that it resurrected from the OG Star Trek.

The Collaborator. Lots of Bajorain politics stuff in this one. Its a must watch for how it sets up the rest of the series.

Tribunal. Another O'Brien episode, but give more insight in to the inner workings of the Cardassians.

The Jam'Hadar.
Oh, boy. This one is pretty innocent looking on its surface. But it sets up the major conflict for the rest of the series.

Thats my list. Others might differ slightly Im guessing. But, IMO, you can skip the rest. Season 3 onwards, you might have the occasional dud. But its mostly gold right the way through.
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Great, I'll take your word for it.

Will keep trying with DS9. To be honest, I thought I'd like Voyager better as the premise seemed so much more interesting (lost ship trying to get back) but so far I'm thinking of giving up and just continue on the DS9 path.
 
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