Spurs 2018/19

[Moonwalker]

Ergh. How many times in this thread are we going to see people draw an equivalence between the general idiocy surrounding the transfer market (people believing tabloid articles, expecting 10 transfers every summer etc) and people wanting the club using the window to address its very obvious weaknesses with maybe a couple of players? It's bizarre.

How exactly have we addressed our central midfield weaknesses (A concern expressed by a number of Spurs fans in this thread) by signing Moura and Sanchez? I like how you've decided you don't see weaknesses, so people who actually watch the side week in week out must be incorrect. Did you watch Dembele being forced in to making 10 fouls a game in order to keep up with play, and looking exhausted by the second half? He's been our most crucial midfielder in seasons past, yet is now clearly on a 'use carefully' basis. That needed fixing, at the minimum this window a central midfielder needed bringing in to add depth and a bit more quality, we have nobody (except for Winks, who is returning from a bad injury) who can pick a pass in that area, or at least a midfielder with similar attributes to Dembele so we wouldn't miss him so badly when he's injured, which is a lot these days.

We also obviously could have done with a wide player, what with Son being out for the Asian games, and the fact we regularly resort to using Lamela and Sissoko, who between them managed an impresssively terrible 3 goals and 3 assists between them last season. Moura goes some way to remedying this, but phasing out Sissoko entirely (its pointless playing him) and bringing in another wide attacker could be crucial to picking up extra points, Lamela offers work rate but has zero end product. Backup for Alli in the form of Grealish would also have clearly helped us out, because Alli spent most of last season coasting through games (despite doing well statistically) and clearly needs a little bit of competition, but once again we're going to be entirely reliant on him due to a lack of depth. Too much pressure on a player of his age, and nobody to come in when he's having a period where it's pointless having him on the pitch.

Nobody is having headaches over who to play on the wing. Our only proven option there who delivers is Son, who will be out for a period of time, with Lamela offering work rate but nothing but frustration in attacking areas, and Moura being an unknown factor. Admittedly though, it's lowest on our list of priorities. We're 'settled and solid', in other words meaning we've failed to freshen up the squad or add any competition for spots, and told the entire league we aren't interested in doing any better than top four. Don't see why it's hard to see that some fans would be very dissapointed by the complete lack of ambition, especially due to comments which upped expectations at the start of the window.

Basically, it's a bit odd that some are making out people are being unreasonable or transfer muppets for expecting a couple of players to come in to this team. We haven't won a trophy since 2008, have a key player in Dembele on the wane, and clearly need more competition for certain spots. This team isn't one which is proven as winners and can't realistically be improved, and even City added Mahrez, so I find it bizarre that people are surprised when the fans aren't happy that we're the only club to decide we could not strengthen.

Well I watch spurs every week (except when United play on the same day, at the same time) so that argumentum ad verecundiam is not gonna be of any use to you. Clearly we perceive things differently due to something other than the frequency of watched games. It could be high neuroticism on your part? If you want me to speculate very rudely.

Would certainly explain why you have such a "glass completely empty" view of your squad. Your description of Lamela epitomises that very well, and ironically, it's precisely the sort of view that I would associate with someone who doesn't watch the team. he was absolutely outstanding for you pre-injury and has a lot more to his game than just running.

Moura hasn't really had a chance to establish himself for a good reason, and that's because the side is fine without him, but there's your "competition for spots".

You're probably the only team in recent memory who could (and did) rotate full backs on a weekly basis, without a significant drop in quality and you still have that (despite the fact Aurier isn't quite as good as Walker). Walker-Peters didn't even have a look in, all season, despite looking pretty good in the opening game.

It's not unreasonable to say you could have added another midfielder to the mix, but you don't just buy for the sake of it. You buy shrewdly, when an opportunity arises. This is what got you in the position to be all whiny despite finishing in the top four for three seasons in a row (which is unthinkable to all those who were used to watching Ruel Fox and Andy Sinton "week in"), in the first place.

When you have a good squad it's hard to improve it. When you have a good squad that's also a young squad, that's the best possible squad to not make any signings.

It could have been, obviously, a better window, and there's room for improvement as there always is, but it isn't the disastrous end to humanity as we know it.

 

[SquishyMcSquish]

Well I watch spurs every week (except when United play on the same day, at the same time) so that argumentum ad verecundiam is not gonna be of any use to you. Clearly we perceive things differently due to something other than the frequency of watched games. It could be high neuroticism on your part? If you want me to speculate very rudely.

Would certainly explain why you have such a "glass completely empty" view of your squad. Your description of Lamela epitomises that very well, and ironically, it's precisely the sort of view that I would associate with someone who doesn't watch the team. he was absolutely outstanding for you pre-injury and has a lot more to his game than just running.

Moura hasn't really had a chance to establish himself for a good reason, and that's because the side is fine without him, but there's your "competition for spots".

You're probably the only team in recent memory who could (and did) rotate full backs on a weekly basis, without a significant drop in quality and you still have that (despite the fact Aurier isn't quite as good as Walker). Walker-Peters didn't even have a look in, all season, despite looking pretty good in the opening game.

It's not unreasonable to say you could have added another midfielder to the mix, but you don't just buy for the sake of it. You buy shrewdly, when an opportunity arises. This is what got you in the position to be all whiny despite finishing in the top four for three seasons in a row (which is unthinkable to all those who were used to watching Ruel Fox and Andy Sinton "week in"), in the first place.

When you have a good squad it's hard to improve it. When you have a good squad that's also a young squad, that's the best possible squad to not make any signings.

It could have been, obviously, a better window, and there's room for improvement as there always is, but it isn't the disastrous end to humanity as we know it.

No I don't. We're a top four squad, with a good team but, like like the other top four sides we have weaknesses. Obvious ones which are not impossible to address, as some have been claiming this window, but entirely workable had the board invested a bit of money in to the team. A 'glass half empty' view seems to be a realistic assessment of a team that most of the fans share, for some reason you've decided that people being annoyed that the club has decided to show no ambition means that we think it is the 'end of humanity', which just isn't the case. Fans are annoyed because we know we have a good team, with lots of good players, but are deciding not to build on this platform and show the ambition needed to go the extra mile as a team. Being the only team to sign nobody is the complete opposite of this, and it's unacceptable when we obviously do have issues to address. Who is saying our squad isn't 'fine' without Moura, or isn't 'fine' without new additions? Of course it is. Being 'fine' isn't enough for most fans though, I don't quite understand how you're struggling to understand the concept of fans not being content with merely maintaining their current level while others improve.

It's hard to believe you watched us every week when you describe Aurier as 'not quite as good as Walker'. Possibly the biggest understatement of the year, he was an utter disaster pretty much every time he took the pitch, giving away a number of penalties due to utterly nonsensical rash tackles and generally being awful. He's strong but not really quick, and not really great either defensively or offensively. A massive step down from Trippier/Walker in pretty much every sense, but you obviously have a different opinion. It's entirely possible after a settling in period he'll be a new player, but if we're judging him off his time at Spurs he's been a terrible signing.

Lamela scored 2 goals and got 2 assists, for a wide player in a team that scores a lot of goals. He can look bright and offers work rate, but absolutely his end product is nowhere near good enough to be a starting player for a top four side. Decent squad option, but he's been underwhelming at the club, if you want to completely overplay his ability that's fine, but you'll struggle to find a Spurs fan who rates him as highly as you supposedly do. I think the biggest praise I've ever heard from him is that he's a good squaddie. And no, he was not 'absolutely outstanding' for us pre-injury, he's had one decent season at the club where he scored 5 goals and got 9 assists, at no point has he ever been remotely close to 'outstanding' in a Tottenham shirt. Outstanding is the likes of Son, Sane, Salah, Mane, Sterling, Mahrez, Hazard etc .. the actual top wide players in the league.

You buy shrewdly? 'Shrewd' buys in 2018 are going to be almost impossible for any Premier League club. If you want a talented player, you are almost certainly going to pay a premium, it's a fact that most teams have now accepted. Players were available but we didn't want to pay the prices, purchasing zero players is not what 'got us in to this position'. If you buy nobody, you have zero chance of adding anything to your squad, there are plenty of players out there we could have signed which would have improved us. The club simply refused to compete in the market, offering ridiculous bids which were never going to be accepted (3m and Onomah for Grealish). Also, just because we were crap in the past doesn't mean we now simply have to be thankful we're quite good now, learn our place and not criticize when the club does something wrong. We were also still better off than we used to be when we were watching AVB's tumescent football week in week out, didn't mean the fans didn't have a right to complain about certain aspects of the club.

The thing is, nobody has claimed its the disastrous end to humanity. People are simply dissapointed and rightfully feel its a missed opportunity to really compete this season. To go in to the next season with none of our issues dealt with has obviously left some fans concerned, nobody is claiming the sky is falling in, and frustrated that the club seemingly just refuses to compete in the market. Disastrous? No. We'll likely compete for top four still .. but not good enough? Absolutely, and it shouldn't be tolerated by the fans. Our manager asked for early signings this summer and was rewarded with zero new players after signing a contract, people have a right to go 'hang on, this is a bit crap' and to say otherwise and act as if there's some huge overreaction is ridiculous. It's a very obvious show from those running the club that they lack ambition and are very content with our current status, when all football fans want to see their club showing as much ambition as possible.

 

[SquishyMcSquish]

I can't genuinely believe people watched Dembele play all of last season and went 'Yeah, we can rely on this guy next season'. His injuries have left him on a very clear decline, and it's pretty clear he can play one game a week at best. This is a player who is adored by the fans, has been absolutely the heart of our midfield under Pochettino and offers us a completely different dimension when fully fit. Yet some think it's unreasonable that fans want somebody to be coming in to cover for him now he's struggling to play matches?

If his decline continues next season, we're in big trouble. Dier and Wanyama are completely different players and cannot do what Moussa does, and Winks is talented but returning from injury and should not be relied upon yet. Dembele is basically our only central midfielder who offers unpredictability and drive, without him we're completely lacking creativity from this area of the park. Especially when you consider the options of other top sides include the likes of Pogba, Keita, Fernandinho, De Bruyne, and Jorginho.

If we were to go in to this window signing only one player, it had to be in this area, yet bizarrely decided to do nothing. It leaves us horribly reliant on a player who is visibily declining and should probably have been allowed to move on to a slower paced league already. A spell on the sidelines for Dembele, entirely possible with his record, and we're back to relying on the horrific Dier & Wanyama partnership, which is utterly lacking in any kind of creativity. It's a serious problem in the team.

 

[Moonwalker]

No I don't. We're a top four squad, with a good team but, like like the other top four sides we have weaknesses. Obvious ones which are not impossible to address, as some have been claiming this window, but entirely workable had the board invested a bit of money in to the team. A 'glass half empty' view seems to be a realistic assessment of a team that most of the fans share, for some reason you've decided that people being annoyed that the club has decided to show no ambition means that we think it is the 'end of humanity', which just isn't the case. Fans are annoyed because we know we have a good team, with lots of good players, but are deciding not to build on this platform and show the ambition needed to go the extra mile as a team. Being the only team to sign nobody is the complete opposite of this, and it's unacceptable when we obviously do have issues to address. Who is saying our squad isn't 'fine' without Moura, or isn't 'fine' without new additions? Of course it is. Being 'fine' isn't enough for most fans though, I don't quite understand how you're struggling to understand the concept of fans not being content with merely maintaining their current level while others improve.

It's hard to believe you watched us every week when you describe Aurier as 'not quite as good as Walker'. Possibly the biggest understatement of the year, he was an utter disaster pretty much every time he took the pitch, giving away a number of penalties due to utterly nonsensical rash tackles and generally being awful. He's strong but not really quick, and not really great either defensively or offensively. A massive step down from Trippier/Walker in pretty much every sense, but you obviously have a different opinion. It's entirely possible after a settling in period he'll be a new player, but if we're judging him off his time at Spurs he's been a terrible signing.

Lamela scored 2 goals and got 2 assists, for a wide player in a team that scores a lot of goals. He can look bright and offers work rate, but absolutely his end product is nowhere near good enough to be a starting player for a top four side. Decent squad option, but he's been underwhelming at the club, if you want to completely overplay his ability that's fine, but you'll struggle to find a Spurs fan who rates him as highly as you supposedly do. I think the biggest praise I've ever heard from him is that he's a good squaddie. And no, he was not 'absolutely outstanding' for us pre-injury, he's had one decent season at the club where he scored 5 goals and got 9 assists, at no point has he ever been remotely close to 'outstanding' in a Tottenham shirt. Outstanding is the likes of Son, Sane, Salah, Mane, Sterling, Mahrez, Hazard etc .. the actual top wide players in the league.

You buy shrewdly? 'Shrewd' buys in 2018 are going to be almost impossible for any Premier League club. If you want a talented player, you are almost certainly going to pay a premium, it's a fact that most teams have now accepted. Players were available but we didn't want to pay the prices, purchasing zero players is not what 'got us in to this position'. If you buy nobody, you have zero chance of adding anything to your squad, there are plenty of players out there we could have signed which would have improved us. The club simply refused to compete in the market, offering ridiculous bids which were never going to be accepted (3m and Onomah for Grealish). Also, just because we were crap in the past doesn't mean we now simply have to be thankful we're quite good now, learn our place and not criticize when the club does something wrong. We were also still better off than we used to be when we were watching AVB's tumescent football week in week out, didn't mean the fans didn't have a right to complain about certain aspects of the club.

The thing is, nobody has claimed its the disastrous end to humanity. People are simply dissapointed and rightfully feel its a missed opportunity to really compete this season. To go in to the next season with none of our issues dealt with has obviously left some fans concerned, nobody is claiming the sky is falling in, and frustrated that the club seemingly just refuses to compete in the market. Disastrous? No. We'll likely compete for top four still .. but not good enough? Absolutely, and it shouldn't be tolerated by the fans. Our manager asked for early signings this summer and was rewarded with zero new players after signing a contract, people have a right to go 'hang on, this is a bit crap' and to say otherwise and act as if there's some huge overreaction is ridiculous. It's a very obvious show from those running the club that they lack ambition and are very content with our current status, when all football fans want to see their club showing as much ambition as possible.

You're melodramatic, conceited, patronising, verbose, redundant, and that's all not very stimulating for discussion.

If you think you'll compete for top four (which I agree with), but at the same time think that's "absolutely not good enough" I'd say that's deluded in the extreme. And what do you mean "just because we were crap in the past doesn't mean we now simply have to be thankful we're quite good now"? That's exactly what not being spoilt means. A bit of perspective and a bit of context. You didn't become quite good, (and consistently quite good) by virtue of twelve Olympians playing dice, you did so to a large extent because you have a very frugal, yet very ambitious chairman. But hey, if it's your wont to throw those toys out of the pram shouting "complete lack of ambition", knock yourself out.

 

[Ooh2B]

What happened to Grealish? Thought that was a done deal? Be brave, take risks? Spurs transfer money won't be impacted by the stadium costs? Splash the cash window?
.

I’d certainly call the lack of signings very risky, as for brave? There’s other words would fit, ie. ballsy, arrogant and just plain tight. Maybe a few other words too..

This window doesn’t show any real intent and comes across as a bit delusional to think you can kick on and win something without strengthening during the main opportunity of the year.

Arsenal rolled the dice on our shiny new stadium and racked up a nice debt load that hobbled is for years, but we’d just won several leagues and cups so were able to maintain the momentum during our austerity years so to speak and we’re still seeing a hangover from that period.
Spurs in all fairness have done a great job of usurping us from the top 4 spots, but it looks like the universe could be rebalancing itself this year.

 

[SquishyMcSquish]

You're melodramatic, conceited, patronising, verbose, redundant, and that's all not very stimulating for discussion.

If you think you'll compete for top four (which I agree with), but at the same time think that's "absolutely not good enough" I'd say that's deluded in the extreme. And what do you mean "just because we were crap in the past doesn't mean we now simply have to be thankful we're quite good now"? That's exactly what not being spoilt means. A bit of perspective and a bit of context. You didn't become quite good, (and consistently quite good) by virtue of twelve Olympians playing dice, you did so to a large extent because you have a very frugal, yet very ambitious chairman. But hey, if it's your wont to throw those toys out of the pram shouting "complete lack of ambition", knock yourself out.

Wow, ok.

You can't expect to talk nonsense about Aurier being a slight step down from Walker, and Lamela being 'outstanding', all whilst somehow attempting to act superior as if you know more about the club than actual Spurs fans who go to matches. The only one being patronising is you, coming in to the thread and telling fans of a club you don't support that they're all drama queens and silly for wanting to sign players, then decided to make statements about our players which are wilfully ignorant of the facts. Congratulations. You've made lots of outright false statements about players at the club (Anybody who watches the players week in week out would know Aurier has been woeful), so are you really surprised when I call you out for it? Especially considering you're in here basically having a go at Spurs fans for not being happy with the window, and saying that your appraisal of the squad definitely means that we don't need strengthening.

Competing for top four is absolutely good enough, being content with this and not showing any ambition to even attempt to go further and win a trophy is not. Being spoilt is not winning a trophy since 2008? We've got a very good team, mostly thanks to our fantastic manager, and feel it deserves to be built on with a bit of investment. That isn't being spoilt, it's a realistic view on our current status. If you want to attribute our success purely to our 'frugal chairman' then go ahead, it's almost as if you didn't watch the AVB era. Squad was a mess before Pochettino took over it, that is the reason we are quite good, because we boast a manager capable of getting the maximum out of players. Again though, you attempt to educate me about my own club, then accuse me of acting patronising and melodramatic because I don't think zero signings after our manager asked for players is acceptable. Christ almighty. Again, nobody is 'throwing toys out of the pram', merely rightfully stating that it's been a very poor window, which most of our fans find to be absolutely unacceptable, for good reason. You've obviously decided you're far too clever for all that, and that actually we're in a fantastic position and you know best, with most of our fanbase apparently being morons.

 

[Moonwalker]

Wow, ok.

You can't expect to talk nonsense about Aurier being a slight step down from Walker, and Lamela being 'outstanding', all whilst somehow attempting to act superior as if you know more about the club than actual Spurs fans who go to matches. The only one being patronising is you, coming in to the thread and telling fans of a club you don't support that they're all drama queens and silly for wanting to sign players, then decided to make statements about our players which are wilfully ignorant of the facts. Congratulations. You've made lots of outright false statements about players at the club (Anybody who watches the players week in week out would know Aurier has been woeful), so are you really surprised when I call you out for it? Especially considering you're in here basically having a go at Spurs fans for not being happy with the window, and saying that your appraisal of the squad definitely means that we don't need strengthening.

Competing for top four is absolutely good enough, being content with this and not showing any ambition to even attempt to go further and win a trophy is not. Being spoilt is not winning a trophy since 2008? We've got a very good team, mostly thanks to our fantastic manager, and feel it deserves to be built on with a bit of investment. That isn't being spoilt, it's a realistic view on our current status. If you want to attribute our success purely to our 'frugal chairman' then go ahead, it's almost as if you didn't watch the AVB era. Squad was a mess before Pochettino took over it, that is the reason we are quite good, because we boast a manager capable of getting the maximum out of players. Again though, you attempt to educate me about my own club, then accuse me of acting patronising and melodramatic because I don't think zero signings after our manager asked for players is acceptable. Christ almighty. Again, nobody is 'throwing toys out of the pram', merely rightfully stating that it's been a very poor window, which most of our fans find to be absolutely unacceptable, for good reason. You've obviously decided you're far too clever for all that, and that actually we're in a fantastic position and you know best, with most of our fanbase apparently being morons.

I haven't at all claimed I 'know more' than anyone. That's a silly straw man, one of many. You should really stop doing that, it's tiresome. I haven't called "all fans" anything. You strike me as a bit of a drama queen though, that's certainly true.

What you call "false statements" are in fact value judgements, and you need to be a real fecking solipsist (which it appears you are) to continuously not get that point.

Your last paragraph ends, again with a reductio ad absurdum, because I haven't claimed anything about most of your fanbase. It's only to the extent that they are anything like you that they are all morons.

 

[SquishyMcSquish]

I haven't at all claimed I 'know more' than anyone. That's a silly straw man, one of many. You should really stop doing that, it's tiresome. I haven't called "all fans" anything. You strike me as a bit of a drama queen though, that's certainly true.

What you call "false statements" are in fact value judgements, and you need to be a real fecking solipsist (which it appears you are) to continuously not get that point.

Your last paragraph ends, again with a reductio ad absurdum, because I haven't claimed anything about most of your fanbase. It's only to the extent that they are anything like you that they are all morons.

You enjoying yourself there, buddy? How about you try and actually argue a point rather than recite latin phrases, might get a bit further. Or just watch a 'Serge Aurier 2017-2018' video on youtube, that too might assist you with actually knowing what you're talking about. Funny how you're the one 'throwing the toys out of the pram' by deciding to make the argument personal and call me everything under the sun, simply because you made some idiotic claims despite being ignorant of the facts.

You came in to the thread, called people stressing the weaknesses in our squad 'bleating', and asserted that Glaston was correct. Despite clearly not knowing enough about what you're talking about because you then later went on to make some bizarre claims about our players with nothing to back them up. You can call describing Serge Aurier as 'not far off Walker' a 'value statement' if you like, although most people would just call it a load of utter nonsense because anybody with functioning eyes could see he was terrible for us last season. Don't know a single fan who thought his performances were anything other than rubbish. It's also not a 'value statement' to pretend Lamela was 'outstanding' for us, because it's a ludicrous claim which you haven't backed up whatsoever. By what measure was he outstanding? His output at the best of times is half that of Son. Lots of running off the ball does not qualify him for that particular description.

Again ... you came in to the thread to declare it was that Spurs fans shouldn't be annoyed at signing nobody, and implied that it was just us being silly because of the 'transfer craze' rather than having genuine concerns about certain aspects of our squad. Fair opinion if you actually knew your stuff about our squad, but you clearly don't so I don't see how you expect me to take your opinions with any degree of seriousness. You can't arrive and tell everybody 'their squad is fine, what's all the fuss about?' when you blatantly don't actually know enough about the team to be making that kind of claim. You've already made two frankly bizarre statements about our players, please go ahead and further share your wisdom on what we do and don't need.

 

[SquishyMcSquish]

In fairness though, if Aurier is nearly as good as Walker, and Lamela is outstanding, I can see why you think we don't need to improve. Makes perfect sense. If only that was you know .. actually the case.

 

[Moonwalker]

You enjoying yourself there, buddy? How about you try and actually argue a point rather than recite latin phrases, might get a bit further. Or just watch a 'Serge Aurier 2017-2018' video on youtube, that too might assist you with actually knowing what you're talking about. Funny how you're the one 'throwing the toys out of the pram' by deciding to make the argument personal and call me everything under the sun, simply because you made some idiotic claims despite being ignorant of the facts.

You came in to the thread, called people stressing the weaknesses in our squad 'bleating', and asserted that Glaston was correct. Despite clearly not knowing enough about what you're talking about because you then later went on to make some bizarre claims about our players with nothing to back them up. You can call describing Serge Aurier as 'not far off Walker' a 'value statement' if you like, although most people would just call it a load of utter nonsense because anybody with functioning eyes could see he was terrible for us last season. Don't know a single fan who thought his performances were anything other than rubbish. It's also not a 'value statement' to pretend Lamela was 'outstanding' for us, because it's a ludicrous claim which you haven't backed up whatsoever. By what measure was he outstanding? His output at the best of times is half that of Son. Lots of running off the ball does not qualify him for that particular description.

Again ... you came in to the thread to declare it was that Spurs fans shouldn't be annoyed at signing nobody, and implied that it was just us being silly because of the 'transfer craze' rather than having genuine concerns about certain aspects of our squad. Fair opinion if you actually knew your stuff about our squad, but you clearly don't so I don't see how you expect me to take your opinions with any degree of seriousness. You can't arrive and tell everybody 'their squad is fine, what's all the fuss about?' when you blatantly don't actually know enough about the team to be making that kind of claim. You've already made two frankly bizarre statements about our players, please go ahead and further share your wisdom on what we do and don't need.

Your farthest reference point in all posts seems to be Andre Villas Boas, which you refer to as "AVB era". That's bizarre if you're not a very young fan, because that wasn't very long ago, and your football wasn't that bad anyway. Do you not remember Juande Ramos?

The other problem is that you assume a priori that just because you're on a United forum, people you disagree with must be disagreeing with you because they don't watch enough spurs. This happens to not be the case in this instance, but Id feel really silly trying to build some sort of viewing credentials just so you can take an opinion that doesn't mirror your own, seriously. Take my word for it or don't, not holding my breath.

Lamela was great for you pre-injury, I absolutely stand by that. But even if you have goldfish memory you could see, even last season (when he was coming back after a long, long time) that he wasn't just someone who runs around a lot. In fact you had this precise disagreement with Glaston, just a couple of pages back, which you've conveniently ignored for all the supposed uniform views among spurs fans.

Aurier has a mistake in him, no doubt. He's "got pace and power but his decision making leaves a lot to be desired. That's exactly in so many words the description of Kyle Walker you would get and the consensus view not two seasons ago. So yeah, he's worse and a rough diamond, but I think he can improve and if he does he'll be good competition for Tripper. You're not really in a financial position to get an upgrade in a position where you've been 'poached', and in that sense Aurier is about as good like for like you could get. He made some costly mistakes in big games last season, and so did Walker before he became more consistent. Not a very controversial view at all.

I wonder if my opinions would sound better to you if fortified with such irrefutable substantiation as "anyone with functioning eyes" or other such piffle.

 

[Hawks2008]

http://www.thstofficial.com/thst-news/thst-comment-on-transfer-window

Saw this on reddit, thought it belonged here. Most of it seems pretty fair and spot on, especially these bits seem a little damning.

>Earlier this year, the Club objected to THST’s criticism of steep ticket price rises. It told us we could not expect players to be signed or wages to be competitive while we opposed those ticket price rises. Fans have paid the prices asked. And yet no signings have been made.

>We are told that we don’t have to sign players because we develop our youth. Yet four of our most promising prospects left the Club this summer. Of the current first team squad, just two regulars have come up through the ranks.

 

[Moonwalker]

In fairness though, if Aurier is nearly as good as Walker, and Lamela is outstanding, I can see why you think we don't need to improve. Makes perfect sense. If only that was you know .. actually the case.

Kyle Walker was the absolute laughing stock on this forum "all pace, no brain", and made mistakes routinely against bigger clubs. It's only in his last season for you and his first season at City that people changed this tune to begrudgingly admit he's one of the best full backs in the league. And of course this is far from some indisputable consensus, because some people still think he isn't all that, and he's reminded us all at the world cup of some his less valued heroics. I think he's a good player, but I also think there's a good player in Aurier, who is still young enough to improve.

As for - Lamela, you've changed the tense from "was pre-injury" to "is" which I was very careful not to say. Why do you argue in this way?

 

[SquishyMcSquish]

Your farthest reference point in all posts seems to be Andre Villas Boas, which you refer to as "AVB era". That's bizarre if you're not a very young fan, because that wasn't very long ago, and your football wasn't that bad anyway. Do you not remember Juande Ramos?

The other problem is that you assume a priori that just because you're on a United forum, people you disagree with must be disagreeing with you because they don't watch enough spurs. This happens to not be the case in this instance, but Id feel really silly trying to build some sort of viewing credentials just so you can take an opinion that doesn't mirror your own, seriously. Take my word for it or don't, not holding my breath.

Lamela was great for you pre-injury, I absolutely stand by that. But even if you have goldfish memory you could see, even last season (when he was coming back after a long, long time) that he wasn't just someone who runs around a lot. In fact you had this precise disagreement with Glaston, just a couple of pages back, which you've conveniently ignored for all the supposed uniform views among spurs fans.

Aurier has a mistake in him, no doubt. He's "got pace and power but his decision making leaves a lot to be desired. That's exactly in so many words the description of Kyle Walker you would get and the consensus view not two seasons ago. So yeah, he's worse and a rough diamond, but I think he can improve and if he does he'll be good competition for Tripper. You're not really in a financial position to get an upgrade in a position where you've been 'poached', and in that sense Aurier is about as good like for like you could get. He made some costly mistakes in big games last season, and so did Walker before he became more consistent. Not a very controversial view at all.

I wonder if my opinions would sound better to you if fortified with such irrefutable substantiation as "anyone with functioning eyes" or other such piffle.

I was using an example of a team which wasn't very long ago because it shows the work Pochettino has done. Same chairman, different manager, with only a few seasons apart. The point being you're attributing far too much credit to our chairman when the general consensus among fans is that whilst Levy has undeniably done a lot of good work, most of the credit for this current teams success belongs to Mauricio. He transformed the fortunes of many players in the team and turned our fortunes (which looked terribly bleak post avb/sherwood) around entirely. We were nowhere near the top four before him.

Nope, I've talked to plenty of United fans who seem to know what they're talking about regarding Spurs. I just think you don't watch enough Spurs because you've made some weird claims which would be totally at odds with what most people who watch a lot of us would think. I don't care what club you support, just what you're saying, and a lot of it to me is pretty bizarre. Lamela was decent for us pre-injury, a good player, he wasn't outstanding - so why claim he was? I don't have a goldfish memory, I remember him being pretty good. His main strength has undoubtedly been his pressing off the ball and what it provides tactically, if he didn't possess this I doubt Pochettino would be interested, he certainly doesn't provide enough end product to otherwise justify selecting him. You keep acting as if that one decent season Lamela had at the club pre-injury means he's good enough to start, when it really doesn't. He's mostly extremely ineffective and frustrating, lacking in speed and decision making.

Glaston would back Levy regardless of what he did, and even he admits to being disappointed by not signing any players. The vast majority of the fanbase feels it's been a really poor window and rightfully so, none of us think it's the end of the world, merely a significant failure to use an opportunity to strengthen. Glaston's views are pretty fringe and strongly supportive of the chairman, for which he gets a lot of stick.

Aurier isn't that quick, nothing like as fast as Walker. He's pretty strong, and 'got a mistake in him' means he's made a bad mistake in most games I can remember him playing for us. He's nothing like Kyle Walker under Pochettino (did make mistakes, but it was more like every 10 games) so the idea he's nearly as good, which is what you originally stated, is ridiculous. Aurier might well come good, but there's no indication whatsoever he's even close to Walker's level at Tottenham or City, and if he was then he'd be heavily pushing Trippier for his starting spot rather than very clearly being a backup.

If anybody tried to tell me Lamela was an outstanding player or Aurier nearly as good as Walker, I'd be strongly disagreeing with them regardless, as I imagine would most Spurs fans. You might find some sympathy for Lamela (although, not many would say 'outstanding') but in Aurier's case he's been downright awful. Like I've said, I questioned how much you'd watched us play purely off the back of these claims, not because you're a United fan. Another statement which is an eyebrow raiser is 'your football wasn't that bad anyway', even though it was downright painful to watch and had us being smashed 5-1 at home by any half decent side, playing dull blunted possession football, and trying to function with a high line with Dawson. Again, you can't spout nonsense like that and expect me to believe that you've watched us regularly, because it's plainly untrue. I doubt you'll find a Spurs fan (even Glaston) who would call the football we played under AVB anything but hideous.

 

[SquishyMcSquish]

Kyle Walker was the absolute laughing stock on this forum "all pace, no brain", and made mistakes routinely against bigger clubs. It's only in his last season for you and his first season at City that people changed this tune to begrudgingly admit he's one of the best full backs in the league. And of course this is far from some indisputable consensus, because some people still think he isn't all that, and he's reminded us all at the world cup of some his less valued heroics. I think he's a good player, but I also think there's a good player in Aurier, who is still young enough to improve.

As for - Lamela, you've changed the tense from "was pre-injury" to "is" which I was very careful not to say. Why do you argue in this way?

Even when he was the 'laughing stock of the forum', he was still far more of an attacking threat than Aurier, and at least had the top level athleticism to make up for a decent amount of his errors. He then developed under Pochettino and became one of the best fullbacks in the league, you're comparing the Aurier of now to the Walker of now, hence why 'nearly as good' is a ridiculous statement. How is that hard to understand? Walker was good for a number of seasons for us, it just took a while to get recognition. He always showed more than Aurier has, or I imagine ever will. Dunno why you're even talking about Walker's WC performances, where he was mostly pretty good but understandably looked out of place playing as a centre back, a position which he's never played for. I dread to think what havoc Aurier would wreak as a CB in a back 3. 25 also isn't really that young, there may be a decent player in there but he has a lot to do if he's ever to be even half the player Walker was in his final season for us.

Even if we're talking pre-injury, Lamela was never outstanding. That's a complete fiction and a vast exaggeration. He'd undoubtedly become a useful player for us but was still the least productive of our attackers and often criticized for his decision making and contribution to the final third. I'm not sure why his pre-injury form is entirely relevant anyway, he didn't look like he was back to it at the end of last season, and it's entirely possible he won't get back to that level, so relying on that is a dangerous decision to make. Even if he does I wouldn't want him as anything other than a squad player. His best season was when he managed 5 goals and 9 assists, to put that in to perspective Jesse Lingard scored 8 and assisted 5 last season in less games than Lamela played. Good player, nothing more. And that was at his absolute best for the club.

 

[Scroto Baggins]

Somebody said Lamela was outstanding?

This thread delivers for the laughs, I feel whenever I am down I can just come read the Spurs thread and I instantly feel better about United and life in general.

 

[Moonwalker]

I was using an example of a team which wasn't very long ago because it shows the work Pochettino has done. Same chairman, different manager, with only a few seasons apart. The point being you're attributing far too much credit to our chairman when the general consensus among fans is that whilst Levy has undeniably done a lot of good work, most of the credit for this current teams success belongs to Mauricio. He transformed the fortunes of many players in the team and turned our fortunes (which looked terribly bleak post avb/sherwood) around entirely. We were nowhere near the top four before him.

Nope, I've talked to plenty of United fans who seem to know what they're talking about regarding Spurs. I just think you don't watch enough Spurs because you've made some weird claims which would be totally at odds with what most people who watch a lot of us would think. I don't care what club you support, just what you're saying, and a lot of it to me is pretty bizarre. Lamela was decent for us pre-injury, a good player, he wasn't outstanding - so why claim he was? I don't have a goldfish memory, I remember him being pretty good. His main strength has undoubtedly been his pressing off the ball and what it provides tactically, if he didn't possess this I doubt Pochettino would be interested, he certainly doesn't provide enough end product to otherwise justify selecting him. You keep acting as if that one decent season Lamela had at the club pre-injury means he's good enough to start, when it really doesn't. He's mostly extremely ineffective and frustrating, lacking in speed and decision making.

Glaston would back Levy regardless of what he did, and even he admits to being disappointed by not signing any players. The vast majority of the fanbase feels it's been a really poor window and rightfully so, none of us think it's the end of the world, merely a significant failure to use an opportunity to strengthen. Glaston's views are pretty fringe and strongly supportive of the chairman, for which he gets a lot of stick.

Aurier isn't that quick, nothing like as fast as Walker. He's pretty strong, and 'got a mistake in him' means he's made a bad mistake in most games I can remember him playing for us. He's nothing like Kyle Walker under Pochettino (did make mistakes, but it was more like every 10 games) so the idea he's nearly as good, which is what you originally stated, is ridiculous. Aurier might well come good, but there's no indication whatsoever he's even close to Walker's level at Tottenham or City, and if he was then he'd be heavily pushing Trippier for his starting spot rather than very clearly being a backup.

If anybody tried to tell me Lamela was an outstanding player or Aurier nearly as good as Walker, I'd be strongly disagreeing with them regardless, as I imagine would most Spurs fans. You might find some sympathy for Lamela (although, not many would say 'outstanding') but in Aurier's case he's been downright awful. Like I've said, I questioned how much you'd watched us play purely off the back of these claims, not because you're a United fan. Another statement which is an eyebrow raiser is 'your football wasn't that bad anyway', even though it was downright painful to watch and had us being smashed 5-1 at home by any half decent side, playing dull blunted possession football, and trying to function with a high line with Dawson. Again, you can't spout nonsense like that and expect me to believe that you've watched us regularly, because it's plainly untrue. I doubt you'll find a Spurs fan (even Glaston) who would call the football we played under AVB anything but hideous.

I'm not a conformist, I don't really care what most fans think, even if you were representing them all, and summarising their opinions accurately, and I don't think either is the case.

Aurier making mistakes in "most" games you can remember is either you confabulating or we haven't watched the same team.

You've referred to the AVB "Era" which presumably denotes more than just his last season, and the unravelling and the heavy defeats only really came towards the end of his tenure.

Before that he had you playing some decent football, and that was actually the embryo of your high defensive line. Bale played his best football under AVB too.

So that summary, of AVB, pretending only one part of his reign happened is either disingenuous or delusional. If you wanted to recall "bad times" there was plenty to draw from.

 

[NoPace]

It was odd they didn't sell Sissoko, loan Winks and then sign a fairly young deep passing midfielder who might well seriously improve them like De Jong, Barella, Torreira, Seri, N'Dombele, Arthur, Ruiz, but I can't really vouch for any of those players.

But I think they're fine at the other positions. Lucas is their winger signing and while they might have been better off signing a younger player who hasn't stagnated a bit, he has talent and did improve at PSG, so it's hardly crazy. Would also have made sense to have signed an LB if Rose does leave, but maybe he won't. I guess signing a wide player like Sessegnon who could play at either spot and be a potentially great LWB would have made sense.

I guess maybe signing a good 9 and selling Llorente would make sense, but I doubt they'd find a better 9 (and who wants to backup Kane?) than just chucking Son or Alli (big and doesn't defend well anyways) up top if Kane did miss some time, and getting another winger (Lamela or Lucas) or a 3rd CB (since they have quality there) on the pitch in theirs stead.

I don't think it's a big deal, but I do think they needed a deep central midfielder, though Dembele presumably leaving by next summer should lead to that buy, and the same is true for an LB if Rose leaves, a CB if Alderweild does (unless Foyth steps up) or another replacement if someone like Eriksen or whoever does finally get lured away to a Barca or Madrid as Bale and Modric did (though maybe they'd have stayed another year or two if they had a team this good).

 

[Scroto Baggins]

It was odd they didn't sell Sissoko, loan Winks and then sign a fairly young deep passing midfielder who might well seriously improve them like De Jong, Barella, Torreira, Seri, N'Dombele, Arthur, Ruiz, but I can't really vouch for any of those players.

But I think they're fine at the other positions. Lucas is their winger signing and while they might have been better off signing a younger player who hasn't stagnated a bit, he has talent and did improve at PSG, so it's hardly crazy. Would also have made sense to have signed an LB if Rose does leave, but maybe he won't. I guess signing a wide player like Sessegnon who could play at either spot and be a potentially great LWB would have made sense.

I guess maybe signing a good 9 and selling Llorente would make sense, but I doubt they'd find a better 9 (and who wants to backup Kane?) than just chucking Son or Alli (big and doesn't defend well anyways) up top if Kane did miss some time, and getting another winger (Lamela or Lucas) or a 3rd CB (since they have quality there) on the pitch in theirs stead.

I don't think it's a big deal, but I do think they needed a deep central midfielder, though Dembele presumably leaving by next summer should lead to that buy, and the same is true for an LB if Rose leaves, a CB if Alderweild does (unless Foyth steps up) or another replacement if someone like Eriksen or whoever does finally get lured away to a Barca or Madrid as Bale and Modric did (though maybe they'd have stayed another year or two if they had a team this good).

Yeah mostly their squad is fine, Dembele ageing and becoming a bit injury prone is probably the main problem for them, as McSquish said he will probably be good for 1 game a week but a midfield of Dier and Wanyama is terrible from a creative standpoint almost like playing 2 CB's in ur midfield. Spurs have a few options, they drop Alli back into midfield, it is where he played his whole MK Dons career I think.They give Sissoko more game time in the midfield and when Winks comes back from injury he will slot in. Winks started to look the goods before his injury, both legs of the RM games he didnt look out of place.

The striker problem is Kane is just too good, as a young striker you would be resigned to bench warming, Spurs dont pay the kind of wages players are happy to sit on the bench for. And who wants to compete with arguably the best out and out striker in Europe?

Their support attacking options are fine, Eriksen, Moura, Son, Alli, Lamela, in goals you have Lloris, again that is fine, the CB's are all great Toby, Vertonghen, who was one of my CB's of the season last campaign, and Sanchez who I thought had a good first season for the games I seen him in.

 

[James Peril]

How are the Tottenham-boys feeling in terms of who will start the first game? Thinking first and foremost on Kane, Eriksen and maybe Moura. Eriksen could be a good pick on Fantasy when everyone is focusing on Salah, Mane, City, Sanchez et al. Thanks!

 

[Murray3007]

And will Kepa be as good when it comes to using his hands? It's all very well and good saying what Kepa might do better than Courtois but what you're overlooking is how good Courtois is at taking the pressure off of a defence by his ability to dominate in the air.

Young Spanish keeper coming into the PL for the first time has all the makings of De Gea's early years mrk II

just because De Gea was poor to start with don't mean everyone that comes in will be the same.

 

[James Peril]

just because De Gea was poor to start with don't mean everyone that comes in will be the same.

De Gea's "poor" start is a myth! Yes, he struggled with some set-pieces, but he made excellent and outstanding saves from day 1.

 

[theriddler]

Spurs have a very interesting situation. They have good players all over the pitch, and 3/4 elite players (Vertonghen, Toby, Erkisen and Kane). Their starting 11 is certainly top 4 quality, and so are many of the subs.

Strangely, the issue is that while none of the other 7 starters warrant replacing due to bad form or not being good, they are just a level below the elite. Son compared to Sanchez, Hazard or Salah or Dembele compared to Pogba, De Bruyne etc. The issue is they would need to spend massive amounts to get that level of player in - even buying players with that potential who are not super young (Keita for example) are very expensive now.

The 'Tottenham have a young squad' narrative is turning into a myth now, too. Their 2 CB's are around 30, and Kane and Eriksen are 25, 26 respectively (not old by any means but no spring chickens either). If they don't do something remarkable soon enough, there has to come a time when the few elite players they have will want to leave.

If Chelsea's squad perform to their level, Spurs will fall out of the top 4 IMO.

 

[Kostov]

De Gea's "poor" start is a myth! Yes, he struggled with some set-pieces, but he made excellent and outstanding saves from day 1.

I agree, it was ridiculous how De Gea was over scrutinized for every single mistake while Hart was let off the hook for similar blunders.

 

[Murray3007]

De Gea's "poor" start is a myth! Yes, he struggled with some set-pieces, but he made excellent and outstanding saves from day 1.

yeah keep believing that

 

[balaks]

This thread has turned to crap again. Squishy you are very draining to listen to with the negativity. I'm disappointed too but let's not lose all sense of perspective here. I am still hopeful we will have a good season.

 

[B20]

De Gea's "poor" start is a myth! Yes, he struggled with some set-pieces, but he made excellent and outstanding saves from day 1.

I guess there was no reason he was rotating with Lindegaard then.

 

[B20]

Has to be said, making no signings at all really is the height of bravery from Levy. And that is all Pochettino wanted.

 

[Moonwalker]

This thread has turned to crap again. Squishy you are very draining to listen to with the negativity. I'm disappointed too but let's not lose all sense of perspective here. I am still hopeful we will have a good season.

I thought all you guys were negative like that, apart from the "fringe"?

 

[roonster09]

I guess there was no reason he was rotating with Lindegaard then.

Far from rotation. He played just 8 league games

 

[balaks]

I thought all you guys were negative like that, apart from the "fringe"?

I'm generally an optimistic kind of guy but even I was totally gutted and pissed off yesterday. No point in going on about it as it won't change anything. Season starts on Saturday and I can't wait.

 

[B20]

Far from rotation. He played just 8 league games

He was dropped, man.

Claiming there was no smoke is a bit weird when Ferguson was dousing the fire for all to see.

 

[Moonwalker]

I'm generally an optimistic kind of guy but even I was totally gutted and pissed off yesterday. No point in going on about it as it won't change anything. Season starts on Saturday and I can't wait.

I can understand that. If you had a lot of expectation it's only natural to feel disappointed, just don't get all eschatological over it.

 

[roonster09]

He was dropped, man.

Claiming there was no smoke is a bit weird when Ferguson was dousing the fire for all to see.

From rotation to dropped. In next few posts will see he was loaned out.

 

[B20]

From rotation to dropped. In next few posts will see he was loaned out.

Rotation = dropped when you're a keeper.

This weekend, Manchester United will line up against Arsenal with Anders Lindegaard in line to earn his sixth start in the last seven Barclays Premier League games for the champions.​

https://sabotagetimes.com/football/...ress-de-gea-has-to-play-instead-of-lindegaard

That doesn't happen to a top keeper who had no poor start. Certainly not when fecking Lindegaard is the alternative.

 

[roonster09]

Rotation = dropped when you're a keeper.

This weekend, Manchester United will line up against Arsenal with Anders Lindegaard in line to earn his sixth start in the last seven Barclays Premier League games for the champions.​

https://sabotagetimes.com/football/...ress-de-gea-has-to-play-instead-of-lindegaard

That doesn't happen to a top keeper who had no poor start. Certainly not when fecking Lindegaard is the alternative.

VDS also didn't play every single game after 2005-06 season. He was also dropped I think.

Lindegaard played few games when De Gea got too much shit from media because of their pathetic agenda who even reported him Kicking the ball out of play. Apart from for 2-3 games he was always good (except midseason game against Blackburn)

 

[B20]

VDS also didn't play every single game after 2005-06 season. He was also dropped I think.

I think you are being deliberately disingenuous here. Was a lovely chat, but let's not do it again. ta.

 

[balaks]

I can understand that. If you had a lot of expectation it's only natural to feel disappointed, just don't get all eschatological over it.

I don't think I had been anything other than disappointed. We still have a very good team more than capable of having a good season.

 

[B20]

You've referred to the AVB "Era" which presumably denotes more than just his last season, and the unravelling and the heavy defeats only really came towards the end of his tenure.

Before that he had you playing some decent football, and that was actually the embryo of your high defensive line. Bale played his best football under AVB too.

So that summary, of AVB, pretending only one part of his reign happened is either disingenuous or delusional. If you wanted to recall "bad times" there was plenty to draw from.

He lasted 18 months.

We drupped spurs 0-5 at white hart lane in december, 4 months into his first season with them. Then 4-0 at anfield 3 months later.

 

[africanspur]

How are the Tottenham-boys feeling in terms of who will start the first game? Thinking first and foremost on Kane, Eriksen and maybe Moura. Eriksen could be a good pick on Fantasy when everyone is focusing on Salah, Mane, City, Sanchez et al. Thanks!

Very difficult to say who will start to be honest. Poch said it will depend on the players, some will be fit enough for the first team, some for the bench and some will stay behind in London to carry on working on their fitness. It is very difficult to know who will start currently.

I think the certs are:

Lloris
Vertonghen
Sanchez
Eriksen
Son
Moura (imo)

The rest are up in the air with world cup involvement and injuries. Kane has made it clear he wants to play pretty much every game he is fit (and he will think he is fit) so it will be up to Poch to decide I guess.

Eriksen is definitely a good pick, he racks up a lot of goals and assists.

 

[Moonwalker]

He lasted 18 months.

We drupped spurs 0-5 at white hart lane in december, 4 months into his first season with them. Then 4-0 at anfield 3 months later.

Another one confabulating.