South Africa vs India

This looks a really good test. I reckon the winning total will be nearer to 250 though.

One observation is that Sreesanth is a major cnut.

India could be in trouble with Zaheer having to come off. Leaves only an off the boil Ishant with Sreesanth, whom keeps on pissing off the umpires.
 
We're in trouble now. You can sense it. Almost 200 now for SA and this partnership is looking good for many many more.
 
zing said:
He's the shittest bowler in a test playing nation that's not Bangladesh.
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Which is a shame, given how good a talent he was when he broke through. It happens so often with us. I was a huge admirer of Irfaan when he broke through. At his best he would have made the ball absolutely talk on this pitch but he too fell away really badly.
 
We should have tried to dry the run flow till the new ball. Boucher has been allowed to get away with a lot of poor deliveries.
 
At this moment, SA seems to be in control. However, this can all change with a quick wicket after tea.

Also, about the umpiring. It has been good this match compared to the rest of the series but the Tendulkar caught behind decision cost us about 100 runs.
 
Anything over 250 and India have to hope for one batsmen to play a blinder.
 
Stretch said:
At this moment, SA seems to be in control. However, this can all change with a quick wicket after tea.

Also, about the umpiring. It has been good this match compared to the rest of the series but the Tendulkar caught behind decision cost us about 100 runs.
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It wasn't clear cut. Even Boucher didn't appeal much.
 
zing said:
It wasn't clear cut. Even Boucher didn't appeal much.
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Actually he did. He threw the ball up into the air immediately. Steyn didn't even bother appealing because it was obvious to him. You saw the dumbstruck look on his face when the umpire refused to lift his finger.
 
Anyway..so the highest run chase at Newlands was Australia in 2002 with something like 311 for 6...however, the second highest run chase was SA with something just over 200 runs...Only two targets of over 200 ever reached at Newlands successfully by chasing team...
 
They are looking very comfortable now, Ishant and Sreesanth has been ordinary so far.
 
You'd have to say South Africa are favourites now - with their bowling and the variable bounce, 250 will be a pretty good score to defend.

It will need a Very, Very Special innings to win this one!
 
We'll do well to save this one. To be honest we owe it ourselves to at least get a draw out of this. It will be a pretty good achievement and will prove that we deserve our number one ranking.

However, we REALLY need to find some genuine quicks. It's embarrassing that we don't.
 
amolbhatia100 said:
We'll do well to save this one. To be honest we owe it ourselves to at least get a draw out of this. It will be a pretty good achievement and will prove that we deserve our number one ranking.

However, we REALLY need to find some genuine quicks. It's embarrassing that we don't.
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You need to win one of the SA and England away series to really push home that number 1 ranking IMO...
 
Kallis truly is the best batsman in the world imo. Sachin's a legend and all but Kallis absolutely always is there when the team needs him.
 
Utd heap said:
You need to win one of the SA and England away series to really push home that number 1 ranking IMO...
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Why? Surely the point of being number one is being better than the rest, rather than be as good as an imaginary benchmark. Now if these teams beat us at home I'd say yes we need to beat them to level things up, but given that we are number one I'd say that other teams have prove otherwise.

If we draw away at SA and beat them at home then surely we're the better team. England we've already beaten home and away, so again, they have it all to prove.
 
amolbhatia100 said:
Why? Surely the point of being number one is being better than the rest, rather than be as good as an imaginary benchmark. Now if these teams beat us at home I'd say yes we need to beat them to level things up, but given that we are number one I'd say that other teams have prove otherwise.

If we draw away at SA and beat them at home then surely we're the better team. England we've already beaten home and away, so again, they have it all to prove.
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We'd still be no.1 but it would feel more by default than anything else. Great teams win series away from home.
 
Psmith said:
We'd still be no.1 but it would feel more by default than anything else. Great teams win series away from home.
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Agreed...

India have earnt the title over the last few years granted - but teams change.

The England side they beat over here a few years back was an average one - now India need to prove dominance over the new one...

That's how it works.
 
Draw seems the likely outcome now, however if we lose a couple of early wickets tomorrow then we will be in hot water.
 
Psmith said:
We'd still be no.1 but it would feel more by default than anything else. Great teams win series away from home.
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That Australian side couldn't win in India in two of the first attempts. It took them 3 tries. They're not a great team?
 
wr8_utd said:
Kallis truly is the best batsman in the world imo. Sachin's a legend and all but Kallis absolutely always is there when the team needs him.
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..and Sachin is not :confused:
 
Anyway, 340 looks pretty damn near impossible on a day 5 pitch. We could cross our fingers and hope Sehwag turns up, but he goes missing too much in the 2nd innings of matches. Steyn seems to have his number, as well
 
zing said:
That Australian side couldn't win in India in two of the first attempts. It took them 3 tries. They're not a great team?
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They beat everyone else away from home and eventually India.

India have won 2 series away from home.
 
Kallis really is an asset, I would say offers far more to a team than Tendulkar.

India have well and truly blown the chance of cementing the World Number One spot IMO.

Had a real chance with the terrible start SA made to their 2nd innings but failed to hammer it home. Instead the SA tail wagged and have made them pay.
 
Kallis is nowhere near the likes of Tendulkar and Lara. He isn't really capable of dominating the way those two can. He's a bit more like Dravid as a batsman, solid and dependable, apart from being in a better team for almost his whole career. Tendulkar and Lara are magicians on the cricket pitch, capable of carrying teams on their own.

Oh and Psmith, I wasn't talking about great teams, I was talking about being the best in the world. I don't believe we're a truly great team at all. If we want to be a truly great team then we need to win a few big series' outside India of course, but not necessarily SA. Australia went a long time before beating us away from home. To be the best we need to be better than the rest.
 
amolbhatia100 said:
Kallis is nowhere near the likes of Tendulkar and Lara. He isn't really capable of dominating the way those two can. He's a bit more like Dravid as a batsman, solid and dependable, apart from being in a better team for almost his whole career. Tendulkar and Lara are magicians on the cricket pitch, capable of carrying teams on their own.

Oh and Psmith, I wasn't talking about great teams, I was talking about being the best in the world. I don't believe we're a truly great team at all. If we want to be a truly great team then we need to win a few big series' outside India of course, but not necessarily SA. Australia went a long time before beating us away from home. To be the best we need to be better than the rest.
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I disagree, Kallis is more than capable of carrying a team on his own. His test batting figures are up there with Ponting and Tendulkar's. Neither of them can touch him with the ball and he is also brilliant in the field.
 
TheReligion said:
I disagree, Kallis is more than capable of carrying a team on his own. His test batting figures are up there with Ponting and Tendulkar's. Neither of them can touch him with the ball and he is also brilliant in the field.
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Averages aren't everything. What batting line up has he ever carried? Sachin and Lara have carried their teams, they are/were capable of both gutsing it out and saving matches as well as absolutely pummeling the opposition. Kallis is more of a Dravid sort of player, technically sound and solid, but unspectacular and dependable. He's also in that league as a batsman apart from Dravid's spazzing out in the last 2 or 3 years (he's carried on too long IMO).

As for the bowling, he's sometimes been very good and there were times when he was a very very ordinary bowler. He averages a 31 which is fairly good but nothing to write home about given the conditions he's gotten to bowl in throughout his career.

Overall there's much more beyond averages in cricket and for me as a cricketer, I would have him well below those two geniuses. They had the charisma, technical ability and the flair to carry off what they did. For me they're the only ones in this generation who could have done it.
 
TheReligion said:
I disagree, Kallis is more than capable of carrying a team on his own. His test batting figures are up there with Ponting and Tendulkar's. Neither of them can touch him with the ball and he is also brilliant in the field.
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To give you an example of how averages can depict things incorrectly, Sachin has played international cricket since he was 16. Yes, 16!! Had he hit international cricket as a cricketer close to his potential, like someone like Dhoni had, I can only imagine what his average would have been, not to mention the injuries he's suffered and played through given he's had 20 years in the game.

That's not even taking into account the pressure he's had to play under given he's played for the most cricket crazy country and their sole hero expected to score a hundred every game and win the game for his team, who as it turned out weren't a very good team. Kallis has never been in a team which got blown away every single time it went overseas to a top team. We got BATTERED every time against SA and AUS overseas. It was embarrassing. Anything other than a 3-0 thumping was a fairly decent outcome. God we were awful then.
 
amolbhatia100 said:
Averages aren't everything. What batting line up has he ever carried? Sachin and Lara have carried their teams, they are/were capable of both gutsing it out and saving matches as well as absolutely pummeling the opposition. Kallis is more of a Dravid sort of player, technically sound and solid, but unspectacular and dependable. He's also in that league as a batsman apart from Dravid's spazzing out in the last 2 or 3 years (he's carried on too long IMO).

As for the bowling, he's sometimes been very good and there were times when he was a very very ordinary bowler. He averages a 31 which is fairly good but nothing to write home about given the conditions he's gotten to bowl in throughout his career.

Overall there's much more beyond averages in cricket and for me as a cricketer, I would have him well below those two geniuses. They had the charisma, technical ability and the flair to carry off what they did. For me they're the only ones in this generation who could have done it.
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Come off it, you are now making all sorts of excuses. Of course facts and figures mean everything in the world of cricket!

Kallis is a class player, and has shown that during the series against the supposed "best team in the world". He showed today he can guts it out and grind out results in the face of adversity, even continuing through injury whilst holding the tail together.

He is a more effective bowler than Sachin and better in the field.

Take off the rose tinted specs for a minute.
 
amolbhatia100 said:
To give you an example of how averages can depict things incorrectly, Sachin has played international cricket since he was 16. Yes, 16!! Had he hit international cricket as a cricketer close to his potential, like someone like Dhoni had, I can only imagine what his average would have been, not to mention the injuries he's suffered and played through given he's had 20 years in the game.

That's not even taking into account the pressure he's had to play under given he's played for the most cricket crazy country and their sole hero expected to score a hundred every game and win the game for his team, who as it turned out weren't a very good team. Kallis has never been in a team which got blown away every single time it went overseas to a top team. We got BATTERED every time against SA and AUS overseas. It was embarrassing. Anything other than a 3-0 thumping was a fairly decent outcome. God we were awful then.
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What rubbish. Im replying from my phone so I will reply in full tomorrow.

You have not been watching cricket for long have you? Sachin along with Lara and Bradman have been the best batsmen the world have seen but Kallis has been the best asset to his team compared to the ones I mentioned. How do score nigh on 40 test centuries and take well over 300 test wickets in the same breath? Add to that reliable buckets in the slips...I will elaborate on this again.
 
Kallis is a phenomenon and if he was Indian I can guarantee the Indian media circus and fanboys would've placed him above Tendulkar. 40 centuries and 200+ wickets is ridiculous.

Amol, I used to think that Tendulkar had more pressure on him but I think for the last 5 years he's had almost no pressure. In the sense that he could literally go on the pitch stop scoring, take out a gun and kill his teammates instead and people would still worship him.
 
amolbhatia100 said:
To give you an example of how averages can depict things incorrectly, Sachin has played international cricket since he was 16. Yes, 16!! Had he hit international cricket as a cricketer close to his potential, like someone like Dhoni had, I can only imagine what his average would have been, not to mention the injuries he's suffered and played through given he's had 20 years in the game.

That's not even taking into account the pressure he's had to play under given he's played for the most cricket crazy country and their sole hero expected to score a hundred every game and win the game for his team, who as it turned out weren't a very good team. Kallis has never been in a team which got blown away every single time it went overseas to a top team. We got BATTERED every time against SA and AUS overseas. It was embarrassing. Anything other than a 3-0 thumping was a fairly decent outcome. God we were awful then.
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That is the most ridicoulous nonsense I've read in a while. The SA batting line up is now stronger than it has ever, and I mean ever been in the bast. Before the emergence of Amla, De Villiers and even Smith, Kallis was SA's go to man, 100% of the time. The only other batsman who shared the load with him was Gary Kirsten. So stop talking out your arse mate. India's batting line up have for the most part been rated higher than South Africa's batting line up, for some time also.

Kallis has scored centuries at an alarming rate. His rate is equal to that of SRT and faster than Dravid and Ponting. You are right in saying that Kallis does not 'dominate' but that is mostly because he seldomly has the luxury to do this. And dominating a team means nothing, winning a match for your team means everything. And in that regard, Kallis has done as much as SRT and co with the bat and even more with the ball.

Make no mistake, technically, SRT, Lara, Bradman and co are more gifted as such in the batting stakes but Kallis makes up for this more than you know with the ball. He's broken key partnerships (which is his role nowadays) for SA and that's not just on South African wickets.
 
I don't remember that amazing sa team, which kallis emerged in, including kirsten, Hudson, gibbs, cronje, klusner, cullinan, pollock, Donald, de villiers etc ever being blown away like ours did away from home so consistutently. Procedural batterings. Yeah lots of pressure on one man in that team eh?

Disagree if you will but imo kallis started off well but for too long he's just been a partnership breaker of a bower. His record given the conditions he bowls in is not great. As a batsman he's a class act but nowhere near the likes of sachin and Lara. The true greats can dominate and strike fear in the opposition as well as strike up nice statistics. Richards, tendulkar and Lara did this. Surrounded by this aura the sight of them struck fear in the teams they played.
 
Psmith said:
Kallis is a phenomenon and if he was Indian I can guarantee the Indian media circus and fanboys would've placed him above Tendulkar. 40 centuries and 200+ wickets is ridiculous.

Amol, I used to think that Tendulkar had more pressure on him but I think for the last 5 years he's had almost no pressure. In the sense that he could literally go on the pitch stop scoring, take out a gun and kill his teammates instead and people would still worship him.
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He's never had NO pressure. When he had the tennis elbow injury and all sorts of other niggles that come along with playing 20 years of international cricket, there were calls for his retirement.

Also, frankly he's earned that sort of treatment. His achievements in this sport are ridiculous. For the best part of 20 years he has been the sole pillar of Indian cricket. Just imagine if someone had been like that for the England football team and the pressures that go with it. If anyone deserves that treatment, although it isn't true, it's him.
 
Stretch said:
That is the most ridicoulous nonsense I've read in a while. The SA batting line up is now stronger than it has ever, and I mean ever been in the bast. Before the emergence of Amla, De Villiers and even Smith, Kallis was SA's go to man, 100% of the time. The only other batsman who shared the load with him was Gary Kirsten. So stop talking out your arse mate. India's batting line up have for the most part been rated higher than South Africa's batting line up, for some time also.
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'Kallis is just decent' 'SA are not very good at cricket'

Those would be ridiculous statements. Rather than labelling it as such and responding in such a wound up state, why don't you tell us of a SA team in the last 10-15 that got battered everytime it stepped into alien conditions? That would be both helpful and would prove my statement wrong.

Also, don't let how a line up is 'rated' fool you. We were excellent on paper but only in subcontinent conditions. Out of that lot only Sachin and one odd other turned up. There was never a good wicket keeper batsman and the lower was clueless. In addition the bowling attack was rubbish in those conditions and so there was always extra pressure on a batting line up that was better on paper than practice.
 
I guess everyone has their opinions. I've never rated Kallis as high as some here do. For me he's about around the level of Pollock, who was brilliant with the ball and decent with the bat (23 bowling avg and 32 batting avg). But I would never pick him over someone whose an absolute genius in their domain and capable of dominating teams and inspiring a whole nation alone. Personal preference I guess.
 
amolbhatia100 said:
I don't remember that amazing sa team, which kallis emerged in, including kirsten, Hudson, gibbs, cronje, klusner, cullinan, pollock, Donald, de villiers etc ever being blown away like ours did away from home so consistutently. Procedural batterings. Yeah lots of pressure on one man in that team eh?

Disagree if you will but imo kallis started off well but for too long he's just been a partnership breaker of a bower. His record given the conditions he bowls in is not great. As a batsman he's a class act but nowhere near the likes of sachin and Lara. The true greats can dominate and strike fear in the opposition as well as strike up nice statistics. Richards, tendulkar and Lara did this. Surrounded by this aura the sight of them struck fear in the teams they played.
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Mate are you delusional or making things up? The lot of batsmen you named there didn't even play together all of the time. Plus, in Kallis' first 3-4 years he was not performing anywhere close to the standards he's done ever since. In fact, I clearly recall people asking why we are persisting with him. And yes, I do remember SA getting battered in England, Australia, feck sake, even in India and Sri Lanka. So don't talk out of your arse mate. To top it all off, we've a poor record in Australia but as far as I know Kallis has the best record of SA batsmen down under.
 
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