Sorry, but why is Rashford rated here? (Read the context)

TMDaines said:
If you don’t rate Rashford with his volume of goals and assists at his age, there’s not much hope for you.
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it all depends on how one interprets statistics. One can also argue the case that Rashford will enter his 7th season as a professional footballer for United and only had 1 season where he scored more then 12 goals in the premier league.

I do agree that he is still a young player. My only question mark is, when will he make that final step to become world class ? (as he turns 24 in a couple of months). Will he ever make that step?

How long was Lingard called a talent ? I know we can not compare them statistically but at some point in time a player shouldn’t be called a talent anymore.
 
LazyRed-Ninja said:
it all depends on how one interprets statistics. One can also argue the case that Rashford will enter his 7th season as a professional footballer for United and only had 1 season where he scored more then 12 goals in the premier league.

I do agree that he is still a young player. My only question mark is, when will he make that final step to become world class ? (as he turns 24 in a couple of months). Will he ever make that step?

How long was Lingard called a talent ? I know we can not compare them statistically but at some point in time a player shouldn’t be called a talent anymore.
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He's clearly doing much better than Lingard, and even during this period of bad form has still produced, unlike Lingard.

At the end of the day, Rashford may never be Mbappe level, but that does not disqualify him from being a very very good player. He is in bad form yes, and for a while, but he is not playing himself, he is not leaving himself on the pitch for 120 mins.

The mentality is there, the skills, the output is at incredibly good levels. Out of all the players at this club, I don't understand how Rashford is the one we want to give up on. He needs a break, he needs competition and to sort out this form and consistency, but he clearly deserves to be a manchester united player. He is 23 ffs, and a fan of this club. He has flaws, but so does Pogba, who can't play in midfield, often can't be arsed and doesn't even want to be here; Bruno loses the ball and is invisible often....you can extend it to everyone in the team. McT was one of our best players yesterday and the Cafe wishes he and Fred would just drop in a hole.

Ole the greatest sub in the history of the club, doesn't make subs; can't train a defence to deal with set pieces and ignores the midfield area of the pitch time and time again. Yet Rashford should be gone? His form will improve. At the moment we are sending out a team with no real attacking direction and then want to scapegoat players for looking mindless :wenger:

Idk what team we've all been watching these last few months, but I don't think we've been all that scintillating. We've just dug out result after result.
 
What I detest about how many on this forum discuss Rashford is the whole tone where the glass is half empty, people openly wear with pride their low opinion of him and want to see "his bubble to be burst", as a now infamous thread put it. The discussion is framed by an assumption that we all know that he isn't really that good and it is negligent of anyone to not try and bring him down a peg or two, as opposed to a more constructive critique of how we can get the most out of him.

Rashford's had his best ever season in terms of direct goal contributions and compares very well to anyone in his age bracket, despite having given up penalties to Bruno Fernandes for the betterment of the team. He compares very well to Rooney's impact at a similar age, despite Rooney playing in arguably our greatest team of all time. We'd all have been very pleased with that individual performance outcome for Rashford if offered at the beginning of the season.

People seem to be forgetting that for much of the season, Bruno and Rashford have been carrying us.
  • Martial has done very little of consequence having been badly out of form or injured.
  • Cavani has been a part-time footballer for much of the season, struggling badly for form and fitness, with only 4 goals by the New Year.
  • Greenwood was having a very difficult 2nd season as a senior professional with only 4 goals by mid-March!
  • Pogba was in poor form, then injured repeatedly.
  • James is quite mediocre at this level, etc.
Rashford's had to manage himself through the season with numerous injuries and niggles, because we desperately needed him. It is only in the last couple of months that Greenwood, Pogba and Cavani could finally be relied upon. It's absolutely churlish to hurl Rashford's injuries and lack of full fitness back at him. He's in this state at the end of the season, because we demanded it from him.

If he hadn't given everything over the season, United wouldn't be playing Champions League next season, and there would have been no lighter period for Cavani and Greenwood to showcase their goalscoring during the run in in securing second. There's an alternative pattern of events, with exactly the same volumes of goals and assists, where Rashford had a strong second half of the season, and Cavani and Greenwood had their leaner and more testing spells in the second half too. There we'd be thanking our lucky stars that Bruno and Rashford carries us to second in the league, because virtually nobody else turned up until the New Year in the league, or in the CL group stage.
 
TMDaines said:
What I detest about how many on this forum discuss Rashford is the whole tone where the glass is half empty, people openly wear with pride their low opinion of him and want to see "his bubble to be burst", as a now infamous thread put it. The discussion is framed by an assumption that we all know that he isn't really that good and it is negligent of anyone to not try and bring him down a peg or two, as opposed to a more constructive critique of how we can get the most out of him.

Rashford's had his best ever season in terms of direct goal contributions and compares very well to anyone in his age bracket, despite having given up penalties to Bruno Fernandes for the betterment of the team. He compares very well to Rooney's impact at a similar age, despite Rooney playing in arguably our greatest team of all time. We'd all have been very pleased with that individual performance outcome for Rashford if offered at the beginning of the season.

People seem to be forgetting that for much of the season, Bruno and Rashford have been carrying us.
  • Martial has done very little of consequence having been badly out of form or injured.
  • Cavani has been a part-time footballer for much of the season, struggling badly for form and fitness, with only 4 goals by the New Year.
  • Greenwood was having a very difficult 2nd season as a senior professional with only 4 goals by mid-March!
  • Pogba was in poor form, then injured repeatedly.
  • James is quite mediocre at this level, etc.
Rashford's had to manage himself through the season with numerous injuries and niggles, because we desperately needed him. It is only in the last couple of months that Greenwood, Pogba and Cavani could finally be relied upon. It's absolutely churlish to hurl Rashford's injuries and lack of full fitness back at him. He's in this state at the end of the season, because we demanded it from him.

If he hadn't given everything over the season, United wouldn't be playing Champions League next season, and there would have been no lighter period for Cavani and Greenwood to showcase their goalscoring during the run in in securing second. There's an alternative pattern of events, with exactly the same volumes of goals and assists, where Rashford had a strong second half of the season, and Cavani and Greenwood had their leaner and more testing spells in the second half too. There we'd be thanking our lucky stars that Bruno and Rashford carries us to second in the league, because virtually nobody else turned up until the New Year in the league, or in the CL group stage.
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Rasford has scored 71 goals (overall) in his first 6 season whereas Rooney scored 131 in his first 6 seasons. I’m counting 6, because Rashford will enter into his 7th season for United next season. It is logical to say that Rooney played in a much better team hence providing him with better chances to score. That logic however is not ‘absolute’, because there are examples of players not being able to put their stamp while being in a great team. It boils down to the actual talent and mentality of the player too. I’m genuinely interested in the question in regards to Rashford’s trajectory which fairs well with Rooney’s one (which you provided as an argument). What aspects would you mention?

I also don’t think that fans are denying that Rashford is a good player. Its the inconsistency and the label ‘talent’. You have two side of the coin here, if you make your debut at 17 and you’ll soon play your 7th season, technically speaking at age 24 you can still be considered a talent because of the age. However after 7 seasons there should be some form of progress and trajectory (combined with actual data and statistics of goals, assists etc) to form an informed opinion wether this player will eventually become world class. Only time will tell.

There is also a case to make in saying that Greenwood’s trajectory is already higher then Rasford’s one, with Rasford scoring his best 17 PL goals in his 5th season, whereas Greenwood’s scored 17 goals in his first full season.

I disagree with your statement that this thread is based on a false assumption, with ‘Rashford not being that good’. Good is a term which can be defined with different variables. I used the terms ‘talented’ , ‘class’, ‘world-class. I think we can safely agree that Rashford is no more a talent as he is word class, I’d argue he is in that phase where he has to make some important steps for him to finally be called world- class.
 
Quality control
Have always said Rashers is just an athlete and not a clinical goal scorer, tonights penalty miss confirms it.
Get shut asap and Sanchos pen was crap as well, oh dear another trophyless season beckons.
 
Good - chuffed that england lost
I see the knives already seem to be out for Rashers and Sancho, as they were for Ronaldo, Rooney and Beckham in the past
 
28gunsalute said:
Have always said Rashers is just an athlete and not a clinical goal scorer, tonights penalty miss confirms it.
Get shut asap and Sanchos pen was crap as well, oh dear another trophyless season beckons.
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Don't count on being promoted any time soon.
 
This thread can feck off.

20 goals and assists across competitions and our second most important player and you slag him off.

Misses a pen where he got subbed on into immense pressure without any time to acclimatize, you slag him off.


Seriously, feck off.
 
28gunsalute said:
Have always said Rashers is just an athlete and not a clinical goal scorer, tonights penalty miss confirms it.
Get shut asap and Sanchos pen was crap as well, oh dear another trophyless season beckons.
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Man Utd > England, bye nO0bie
 
28gunsalute said:
Have always said Rashers is just an athlete and not a clinical goal scorer, tonights penalty miss confirms it.
Get shut asap and Sanchos pen was crap as well, oh dear another trophyless season beckons.
Click to expand...

Did you forget Rashfords pen against Paris?

Maybe Southgate should have subbed him on so he'd actually get some ball feel befor the penalties.
 
Mickeza said:
Anyone on here criticising him today can kindly go feck themselves.
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He shouldn't have even been on the pitch. Sir Gareth of Southgate completely bottling the match and then shoving a couple of subs on at the last minutes to take penalties was the problem. Can't blame them for missing with zero time to get a feel for the game.
 
He missed a penalty, it happens, I don't think it even Southgate is to blame here. He's missed penalties for us already
 
Completely set up for failure tonight, barely a kick all tournament and then has to take the most high pressure penalty of his life.
 
Oh, FFS. I am not his biggest fan but anyone using tonight's miss (which was unlucky, in my opinion, as Donnarumma guessed the direction on Sancho and Saka's pens) is a bit of a tool.

I hope Rashford and Sancho can recover their confidence and can redeem themselves next season for club and country.
 
The Hilton said:
Completely set up for failure tonight, barely a kick all tournament and then has to take the most high pressure penalty of his life.
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Sure, but instead of taking a competent penalty, he decides to Pogba it into the post!! No need for the stupid exaggerated, staggered run up, its a shoot out, just blast it! I would go as far to say his miss, messed with the rest of the pens after, and ultimately, lost England the game.
 
ah feck off to bump this thread and try to blame Rashford. You can stop supporting our Club. Absolute wankers.

He needs our support now. Southgate is the one to blame and no one other.
 
I was rooting for Italy but didn't want to see Marcus, Sancho and Saka miss. Not surprised at some of the comments in here
 
Guess I made the right decision to avoid the forum after a bad loss.

Thanks for bumping the thread, so I could see this gem.

LazyRed-Ninja said:
Rasford has scored 71 goals (overall) in his first 6 season whereas Rooney scored 131 in his first 6 seasons. I’m counting 6, because Rashford will enter into his 7th season for United next season. It is logical to say that Rooney played in a much better team hence providing him with better chances to score. That logic however is not ‘absolute’, because there are examples of players not being able to put their stamp while being in a great team. It boils down to the actual talent and mentality of the player too. I’m genuinely interested in the question in regards to Rashford’s trajectory which fairs well with Rooney’s one (which you provided as an argument). What aspects would you mention?

I also don’t think that fans are denying that Rashford is a good player. Its the inconsistency and the label ‘talent’. You have two side of the coin here, if you make your debut at 17 and you’ll soon play your 7th season, technically speaking at age 24 you can still be considered a talent because of the age. However after 7 seasons there should be some form of progress and trajectory (combined with actual data and statistics of goals, assists etc) to form an informed opinion wether this player will eventually become world class. Only time will tell.

There is also a case to make in saying that Greenwood’s trajectory is already higher then Rasford’s one, with Rasford scoring his best 17 PL goals in his 5th season, whereas Greenwood’s scored 17 goals in his first full season.

I disagree with your statement that this thread is based on a false assumption, with ‘Rashford not being that good’. Good is a term which can be defined with different variables. I used the terms ‘talented’ , ‘class’, ‘world-class. I think we can safely agree that Rashford is no more a talent as he is word class, I’d argue he is in that phase where he has to make some important steps for him to finally be called world- class.
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This guy's argument is Rashford isn't Wayne fecking Rooney, our all time top scorer :lol:

Hope Rashy gets the surgery he needs and a speedy recovery for next season.

The Daily Mail audience is loving which players ended up missing pens. Can't wait for Rashford's next humiliation of them.
 
28gunsalute said:
Have always said Rashers is just an athlete and not a clinical goal scorer, tonights penalty miss confirms it.
Get shut asap and Sanchos pen was crap as well, oh dear another trophyless season beckons.
Click to expand...

I agree, that Messi chap who missed the penalty in the final is nothing but just an athlete too. What an absolute dog shite post.
 
RedTwist said:
Sure, but instead of taking a competent penalty, he decides to Pogba it into the post!! No need for the stupid exaggerated, staggered run up, its a shoot out, just blast it! I would go as far to say his miss, messed with the rest of the pens after, and ultimately, lost England the game.
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Nah come on, England lost well before pens by letting the game pass them by.

Not really the players' faults, they were set up to fail, but a horribly wasted opportunity.
 
Do you think Rashford/ Sancho will be called-up tO National Team next World Cup? In my honest opinion The manager treat them badly in this tournament !
 
VanDeBank said:
Guess I made the right decision to avoid the forum after a bad loss.

Thanks for bumping the thread, so I could see this gem.



This guy's argument is Rashford isn't Wayne fecking Rooney, our all time top scorer :lol:

Hope Rashy gets the surgery he needs and a speedy recovery for next season.

The Daily Mail audience is loving which players ended up missing pens. Can't wait for Rashford's next humiliation of them.
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It would be highly advised if you would read the entire conversation. I did not compare Rashford to Rooney, I actually replied to a poster who said :

‘He compares very well to Rooney's impact at a similar age, despite Rooney playing in arguably our greatest team of all time’

the argument was that he didnt.

also the argument was that Mason’s trajectory is looking up towards a higher curve then Rashford’s comparing them from their debut and starting season(s).
 
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Just to make things clear, this is NOT a bash Rashford thread (read the OP). This is a broader theme wether Rashford will be able to make that jump in becoming a world class player and stamping his consistency in the team, considering he will enter his 7th season at United.

Its common sense that fans should support the club and support the players in the good and bad times.

However, constructive criticism should never be avoided because of ‘emotional’ attachment towards a player or team.
 
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LazyRed-Ninja said:
Just to make things clear, this is NOT a bash Rashford thread (read the OP). This is a broader theme wether Rashford will be able to make that jump in becoming a world class player and stamping his consistency in the team, considering he will enter his 7th season at United.

Its common sense that fans should support the club and support the player in the good and bad times.

However, constructive criticism should never be avoided because of ‘emotional’ attachment towards a player or team.
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You bumped it after he missed a penalty, explain how that has anything to do with what you’ve just written.
 
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