Jose won us plenty of lesser cups, when he left were in as bad a place as we've ever been.
Solskjaer: Winning trophies is more of an ego thing for managers, league position is where true progress is seen
- Thread starter Hansi Fick
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Yeah, he didn't even say we don't need cups. He said we have to improve which will makes up win trophies. Like finishing bit lower in the table and lucking your way to cup is not progress but progress in league and a cup win is what we need. He even said in the interview that we have to win something.
But your arguments are completely flawed based on your poor reading comprehension, so it would be absolutely pointless for him to waste time on discussing them in a constructive way.
It says alot that fans don't read the article or his full quotes but will come here ans stay stuff like he is lowering our standards etc. Yet they are all pointing out to Jose's record and counting a community shield as a trophy, forgetting the rant Jose had post Sevilla disrespecting the fans and the club.
Ole has maintained all season that we need to win a trophy but what he is trying to say is, if we win a trophy and dont get top 4, that wont show progress. We need both, which is what we all want too.
Would Ole be saying this if he was in 5th place, but on course to win a couple of cups? I think not 
No way should these be comments coming out from a manager that aspires to win the league, let alone a Manchester United manager.
For those of you who have forgotten, Fergie held onto his job thanks to a League Cup win.
It was the 2006 League cup that became a catalyst for one of the most successful periods in our club's history despite us finishing 10+ points behind Chelsea.
What happened to the "We're the biggest club in the world. We're in it to win it" mentality?
Suddenly it's all about incremental improvements, getting a perfect squad, spreadsheets, points, analytics, xGa yada yada. It's like I'm not a Manchester United fan, but working at a soulless corporation.
For those of you who have forgotten, Fergie held onto his job thanks to a League Cup win.
It was the 2006 League cup that became a catalyst for one of the most successful periods in our club's history despite us finishing 10+ points behind Chelsea.
What happened to the "We're the biggest club in the world. We're in it to win it" mentality?
Suddenly it's all about incremental improvements, getting a perfect squad, spreadsheets, points, analytics, xGa yada yada. It's like I'm not a Manchester United fan, but working at a soulless corporation.
Exactly. Just outrage over nothing and then few trying to wind up fans.
It's a very good interview, shame how the lines are deleted and changed the complete meaning of what he said.
Counting Charity Shields really undermines what was already an over-reaction to, and misinterpretation of, what was actually said.
The fact that people have felt the need to post the full quote 4 or 5 times in 8 pages speaks volumes about the agenda driven nonsense from some quarters.
People wanting the manager gone is fair enough but at least argue in good faith.
Did you read the full quote?
Ole said: -
so, there you go, Ole's argument are on the basis of how to measure PROGRESS, winning a cup while finishing outside of top 4 is not progress.
and if you question Ole's desire to win cups, then why would he reach 3 semifinals in one season last year??
It's clear that Ole wants to win a cup while actually progressing the team and showing good level of consistency in the league, not just win a cup/trophy to say "hey see I won a cup here"
You may question Ole on many things, I am actually questioning Ole's managerial ability in many areas, and i am not an Ole In or Ole Out, I am still on the fence regarding Ole, but his comments here (the full version of course) are fair and can't be argued as being less ambitious or something like that.
so, there you go, Ole's argument are on the basis of how to measure PROGRESS, winning a cup while finishing outside of top 4 is not progress.
and if you question Ole's desire to win cups, then why would he reach 3 semifinals in one season last year??
It's clear that Ole wants to win a cup while actually progressing the team and showing good level of consistency in the league, not just win a cup/trophy to say "hey see I won a cup here"
You may question Ole on many things, I am actually questioning Ole's managerial ability in many areas, and i am not an Ole In or Ole Out, I am still on the fence regarding Ole, but his comments here (the full version of course) are fair and can't be argued as being less ambitious or something like that.
"We need to win something and, if we play well, the trophies will return. But a trophy won't say 'we're back'. We need the consistency of being top of the league and then winning some trophies. A cup can hide that you are struggling a little bit." So we have not played well, as we have not won even a minuscule trophy, fooked it up in 3 semis, got knocked out of CL, and managed to stay top of the league for a week or so and then fell down spectacularly. I agree with Ole. We have neither consistency nor any trophy to show that we played well in any particular competition.
Exactly this, people picking and choosing words to suit their narrative.
You are right, a trophy has to be used to move the team forward to bigger and better things. People bringing up LvG and Jose. They had already decided to sack LvG so who knows if he would have used it to improve us more, Jose is an awkward one, you could say we should have backed him, but still think the meltdown was on it's way.
Wow! What a paper to garble the answer.....
https://www.manutd.com/en/news/deta...-and-rashford-press-conference-17-march-2021#
How do you your measure progress as a team?
“I think you have to say that when you see the culture of what's happening every day, I feel a lot of improvement in the everyday routine, the everyday work. The boys have taken on everything I want. It's for others to assess how much we've improved. We're 12 points ahead of where we were in the league this time last season. Of course, we are all wanting to win trophies at this club. But sometimes a trophy can hide the other fact of what is happening at the club. It's in the league position you see if you're progressing really. Sometimes in the cup tournaments you might be lucky, you might be unlucky with draws and games that are decided on different factors. But, of course, we're aiming to win; that's what's required in football and you're always aiming to win trophies.”
It's four years since United last won a trophy, is that a surprise to you?
“I have been here for two-and-half of those years now and, of course, coming in, as I've said so many times, I felt a big rebuild had to be made. It's in the league position that you see if there has been progress, for me. That's always the bread and butter of the season and you see how capable you are of coping with ups and downs. Maybe a cup run can give you a trophy, but sometimes it's more of an ego thing for managers and clubs: 'we've finally won something'. We need to see progress and, in the cup, if we perform well enough, the trophies will end up at the club again. But it's not like a trophy will say that we're back. No, it's the gradual progression and the consistency of being top of the league, in and around there, and then the odd trophy. Sometimes, a cup competition can hide the fact that you are still struggling a little bit.”
Are some managers designed to be good cup managers?
“Every manager wants to win every game and we want to fight on every front. Then it comes to a point in the season where 'ok, we can't win this or we can't achieve that success' Sometimes you might sacrifice the league for a cup run at the end. I haven't been here and felt we can down prioritise any games yet. We need to try and win every single game, every single player needs to learn how to cope with the standards and the expectations. But you will end up with trophies if you are consistent enough and sometimes lucky enough.”
This is nothing to say he don't want cup trophy, he is just explained that if you would like to see the progress, it is indicated and measured in the league points and position. If you want to win the cup, you need to play well with some luck.
https://www.manutd.com/en/news/deta...-and-rashford-press-conference-17-march-2021#
How do you your measure progress as a team?
“I think you have to say that when you see the culture of what's happening every day, I feel a lot of improvement in the everyday routine, the everyday work. The boys have taken on everything I want. It's for others to assess how much we've improved. We're 12 points ahead of where we were in the league this time last season. Of course, we are all wanting to win trophies at this club. But sometimes a trophy can hide the other fact of what is happening at the club. It's in the league position you see if you're progressing really. Sometimes in the cup tournaments you might be lucky, you might be unlucky with draws and games that are decided on different factors. But, of course, we're aiming to win; that's what's required in football and you're always aiming to win trophies.”
It's four years since United last won a trophy, is that a surprise to you?
“I have been here for two-and-half of those years now and, of course, coming in, as I've said so many times, I felt a big rebuild had to be made. It's in the league position that you see if there has been progress, for me. That's always the bread and butter of the season and you see how capable you are of coping with ups and downs. Maybe a cup run can give you a trophy, but sometimes it's more of an ego thing for managers and clubs: 'we've finally won something'. We need to see progress and, in the cup, if we perform well enough, the trophies will end up at the club again. But it's not like a trophy will say that we're back. No, it's the gradual progression and the consistency of being top of the league, in and around there, and then the odd trophy. Sometimes, a cup competition can hide the fact that you are still struggling a little bit.”
Are some managers designed to be good cup managers?
“Every manager wants to win every game and we want to fight on every front. Then it comes to a point in the season where 'ok, we can't win this or we can't achieve that success' Sometimes you might sacrifice the league for a cup run at the end. I haven't been here and felt we can down prioritise any games yet. We need to try and win every single game, every single player needs to learn how to cope with the standards and the expectations. But you will end up with trophies if you are consistent enough and sometimes lucky enough.”
This is nothing to say he don't want cup trophy, he is just explained that if you would like to see the progress, it is indicated and measured in the league points and position. If you want to win the cup, you need to play well with some luck.
There is nothing wrong with what he said, but unfortunately he is saying it in the era of Manchester City, so the league could be a long way off. He has to get us into a few points of the top to prove he has the credentials to go even further. Players have to be convinced by a manager otherwise you end up with the happy to be here on a big pay packet brigade.
Agreed mainly, bar the bolded part. Liverpool won the CL and the prem in the era of the noisy neighbours and they did this mainly thanks to the brilliance of their manager.
Ole is for sure right about the league position showing your true progress but his comment re trophies is disappointing. Trophies for Man United are about more than an ego thing for managers, the club talks about being a big club and big clubs win trophies, that's pretty much it. It's OK for the Tottenham/Arsenal manager etc to say stuff like that but we're supposed to be the biggest club in England and one of the biggest in world football.
That definitely sounds like a bit of a dig at Jose, especially the last answer about sacrificing the league for a cup run.
So after seeing this thread I thought I'd go and actually read what he said rather than just going by the headline
This headline is something you would see on Daily Mail Twitter account
Based on the question and his response, he's right. I see a Bayern fan set the title of this thread, shocked that a Bayern fan wouldn't like ole...
This headline is something you would see on Daily Mail Twitter account
Based on the question and his response, he's right. I see a Bayern fan set the title of this thread, shocked that a Bayern fan wouldn't like ole...
The club & the FA literally count it at as a trophy. So yes, it’s a trophy.
So why do people say we won only 1 treble, when we won so many?
We need to finish in the Top 4 to make sure we have the finances to bring in the players he wants. Get the right players and it should come right. Get the right players and Ole has to deliver.
Looking at the full quotes, I completely agree with him. A sustainable period of good results coupled with strong league campaign is far better than a single cup run. See Mourinho era.
I think the same about Spurs where people were banging on about them needing to win a trophy to assert themselves like it would mean something. The very big elephant in the room for me is that their league form matters far more than any individual glory/flukey cup win. If they do win the League Cup this year I don't think it'll mean much at all if they finish 6th.
Some people just want to glory though.
I think the same about Spurs where people were banging on about them needing to win a trophy to assert themselves like it would mean something. The very big elephant in the room for me is that their league form matters far more than any individual glory/flukey cup win. If they do win the League Cup this year I don't think it'll mean much at all if they finish 6th.
Some people just want to glory though.
Because we won THE treble. The main domestic & European cup competitions & the league title. I’m pretty sure City won the FA Cup, League Cup & title a few years ago, nobody said they won the treble either.
So Hang on, what you are saying is that the journo was selective in his reporting and this was compounded even further by the OP with a misleading title ??
Well I never.
I mean that would be very silly, to make such a school boy error
Holy shit. Ole really lives rent free in some heads here.
Pretty sure he could have said its nice weather outside and people would be wound up
Pretty sure he could have said its nice weather outside and people would be wound up
City won Quadruple, Not just treble. THE Quadruple or a quadruple doesn't matter. They won Quadruple.
We also won so many trebles. Juventus too, maybe they won treble trebles.
Community shield is a friendly game, teams can use 6 subs in a game and if i'm not wrong red cards don't even carry for the next game.
Well OP knows it but apparently it's a revenge for few Manutd fans having a go at Poch couple of years ago.
Like i said, it's a nothing interview. He covers himself with lots of if but, so not much to gather from his saying. It's like saying you win the game by scoring more than the opponent, unless if it's a 2-legged tie. It's logic but says nothing.
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Hes talking about cups. How can he be talking about League titles when he literally says the league is where progression is measured?
The Community Shield is an official competitive game & the club literally count it amongst their trophies. So yes, technically Moyes won a trophy for us.
That’s not what he said though? He was talking about what’s the best measure of progress, he didn’t say cups don’t matter. He even explicitly said you might sacrifice league position in order to fight for a cup trophy.
Probably. The Man United manager job is one of the biggest jobs in world football, if you can't take the heat get out the kitchen. This is not new.
Ole is 100% right, I’ve always valued the league above absolutely everything. Even the CL.
I agree in pragmatism. Just dont tell that to the public.
It reflects badly. Saf would never let his players thinks it's ok to lose a cup. At best he probably give then a simple hairdryer session and move on.
You don't tell your player it's ok to lose because it doesnt matter
It's ok boys. We're sacrificing this game. Go out there and have fun.
He never said it’s ok to lose a cup
He specifically talked about sacrificing league position, but not cups.
As for the point about transparency, I agree, he could make things easier for himself.
https://www.espn.in/football/englis...rtain-raiser-but-whats-the-deal-with-the-name
6 subs, yellow cards and red cards don't count. It's a glorified friendly.
If you can’t fashion a stick to beat Ole with out of the Community Shield, you’re not crafty enough.
I don't like the whole "winning a trophy is more of an ego thing". I think Poch said the same, and I disagreed with it then. So I wish he didn't say that.
However, what he's saying, in general, is spot on. Particularly this bit:
You can easily fluke a trophy and it has very little bearing on where you are as a team. Everyone knows that the league is the barometer that you use to measure how you're progressing as a team. Also, at no point does he say that he DOESN'T want a win a trophy, which I suppose some people could misinterpret the headline as implying.
Overall, there's really feck all wrong with what he said. And it seems like the majority of people in this thread can see that.
However, what he's saying, in general, is spot on. Particularly this bit:
You can easily fluke a trophy and it has very little bearing on where you are as a team. Everyone knows that the league is the barometer that you use to measure how you're progressing as a team. Also, at no point does he say that he DOESN'T want a win a trophy, which I suppose some people could misinterpret the headline as implying.
Overall, there's really feck all wrong with what he said. And it seems like the majority of people in this thread can see that.