Yeah, using his interview completely out of context by deleting part of the interview, using community shield as a stick to beat Ole, it's all weird.
Solskjaer: Winning trophies is more of an ego thing for managers, league position is where true progress is seen
- Thread starter Hansi Fick
- Start date
Yeah, using his interview completely out of context by deleting part of the interview, using community shield as a stick to beat Ole, it's all weird.
For Wigan, I'd say it is. They're never going to challenge for bigger trophies and they were never going to be a permanent top-flight club anyway. Winning the FA Cup is as good as it gets for a club like theirs.
I agree Ole that the progress is determined on how we progress in the league but I'm not sure how much of that second position is actually true judging by how we have done in some of the games. I mean we have lost just 4 games in a long long time but we've drawn 9 games in the league this season and haven't particularly done well against the top6 sides apart from the latest victory against City. Also I'm not fond of these statements especially before travelling to Italy for the second leg. I mean the players will certainly not be thrilled about the Europa League now because he doesn't really think of it as a great deal. Jose didn't do a lot of good things at United but he certainly win a couple of trophies to actually show us how it would feel to win a cup final. We'd forgotten all about it until we won the Europa final against Ajax. I think Ole must push his team to win all the competitions there is on deck to win.
Above everything, we just need to play some good football which frankly now is neither here nor there.
Above everything, we just need to play some good football which frankly now is neither here nor there.
Not to disagree with the whole of your post, but I have to wonder why people continue to make this claim.
Last 5 EFL Cup winners are: 4x Man City, Man United once.
Last 5 FA Cup winners are: Arsenal twice, Man City, Chelsea, Man United one each.
In the last decade, only once did smaller teams 'fluke' a trophy in each competition, Swansea and Wigan. And the same could be said about the Premier League title too, couldn't it?
And especially if you look at the last few seasons, the notion that any team can 'easily' fluke an FA or EFL Cup no matter how well they do generally seems just wrong to me, on the contrary there's a very strong correlation between who does well overall and who wins the cups.
Last edited:
I expect Mourinho to say the exact opposite before the LC Final, self preservation from both
The ugly truth.
Football is all about finishing in the top 4 and the only cup to win is the CL.
Football is all about finishing in the top 4 and the only cup to win is the CL.
I didn't mean to suggest that ANY team in the English division can win these trophies; typically these trophies are obviously won by the bigger teams. Perhaps "fluke" is the wrong word, but what I'm saying is, the best teams in a competition don't always (maybe not often) win it. We've seen that countless times whether it's the domestic cups or the European ones.
Simply put, winning a trophy on its own (which is what Ole is basically saying) does not necessarily indicate progression due to the fickle nature of knockout football.
If we win a cup or not this season I would imagine It would make no difference to how I view Oles current reign or how you view it.
Even if we won both the Europa league and FA cup you would still say Ole is dogshit and he lucked out. Which kind of proves the point that actually winning or not winning a cup will not define success, the barometer is the league and 2nd place this season is ok, not amazing not an unqualified success but ok and something to build on.
I cant imagine there are many fans that if you said we will finish second this year at the start of the season would of said that would be a poor season, infact you probably would of scoffed at the thought of it and said there is no way we would finish above liverpool, chelsea, spurs, arsenal etc etc, but here we are and your still bleating about how shit Ole is.
Maybe next season the wheels will come off and Ole will end up being sacked and you can come on here and puff your chest out and tell everyone how you were right all along and how anyone who thought that Ole could succeed is a fool blah blah blah probably feel quite good about yourself aswell.
I pity you really because either way you win but you lose. If Ole does succeed happy days but secretly I think you will be upset that hes made you look like a fool and that ultimately you were wrong. If Ole fails and ends up sacked than happy days you were right, but unfortunately it will mean we have had a shit season again and the rebuild process starts again with a different manager.
Me personally, I really dont know whether he will succeed or not, some good signings and a little bit of luck then probably but if we have a bad summer and a bit of bad luck than the wheels could easily fall off. Either way this season has been ok so far, the only real disappointment was the CL but other than that it's been decent enough, next season will have to be better though.
I get the should have been backed more narrative. The same people who say that, also say Ole has been backed, when in actual fact this season he wasn't really backed.
Jose signed 2 CB's and wanted a third. The names going around at that time included Boateng and Godin.
He wanted a winger, the name mentioned was Perisic.
Now, if you were in charge, given that he got Pogba, Mikhi, Alexis, Lukaku, Matic, Bailly, Darmian, Lindelof and none of them really produced anything.
Before the summer we all say he should have been backed, he came out with some really embarrassing comments post Sevilla, our football was horrific.
Out of the players mentioned, how many really showed anything?
Ole's signings, however anyone wants to rate Bruno, Maguire, AWB, they all start almost every game.
Looks to me like he is having a sly dig at his predecessors.
That's why I think he would have been backed , but they were wary of the targets wanted. It was all about now with not looking to the future. Which is why Ole is hinting about some managers and their egos.
Last edited:
Sometimes, even I want Ole to really show his frustration with lack of signings and speak out but from history, how far has that got the manager?
Players start to feel they are not good enough, the results start to go bad and the manager will eventually get the sack.
I know it doesn't suit everyone how Ole conducts himself but if you take emotion out of it, he is building a very good team, team morale is probably at the highest in 8 years.
4 months ago everyone said we are miles away from City and Liverpool (even after VVD injury), yet the times we have played them this season we haven't gone park the bus ultra defensive.
There is a shift happening, it takes time to change the mentality of players whilst considering we have not had a chance to work on things. We saw post lockdown we played better football because we had the time to work on patterns of play etc.
This season, we have not had the opportunity to do so, we are having to play 2 times a week since September, most of the time its play rest, recover, play.
Of course, but its not like they are mutually exclusive either and he never said or even implied such a thing.
Of course winning a cup is better than not winning a cup, but cups themselves are often poor yardsticks for measuring progress, which is what he said. This year, for example Chelsea will most likely reach an FA cup semi having played Morecambe, Luton, Barnsely and Sheffield U
When Van Gaal won it in 2016 he played Sheffield U, Derby, Shrewsbury, West Ham, Everton and Palace. That seasons toughest opponent was West Ham who ended up 7th
Would I now? Well considering you don’t know me it’s amazing how you can speak with such confidence on how I would react to a hypothetical scenario.
I don’t think Ole will ever win a trophy. If we win the Europa, FA Cup & finish 2nd it will be an improvement on last season & would indicate clear progress & I would say he deserves to stay on, despite me personally not enjoying his brand of football & finding his in-game management frustrating.
However, like I said, I don’t think he will ever win a trophy. Feel free to message me when we’re lifting the FA Cup & Europa League in May though because I’d love to admit I was wrong.
Why do people always think it’s personal? Because I don’t think Ole is a good manager than i must hate him & refuse to give him credit at all times. I’ve given him plenty of credit in the past. Check my comments in the post match City thread just last week. You lot always think it’s personal when I just want the best for my club.
The point about cup competitions being more random is of course more about the luck of the draw. Clubs fluking big cup competitions is no more common (maybe a little) than a club fluking a league title, but how any club of any size does that is can obviously be significantly affected by the route.
United have been on the wrong side of this in recent seasons, so we are are probably a little more sensitive to it than some would be, but there is no question that there can be 'difficult' and 'less difficult' ways to win a cup
Because some of your arguments ignore context just so you can have a pop? Saying he’s only reached 6th and 3rd, for example. When he got us to 6th he took over the club in freefall. NOBODY thought we’d make top four, and we nearly did. If anything he did a blinder by getting us to the placement he did. But you use it as evidence of him being no better than his predecessor.
You certainly come across as being more interested in scoring points than in shedding light.
Why did you bother? I don't know why I am responding to you either. Utd don't have any hope of winning a cup. Second place will be much more difficult next year when the fans are back.
He took over us in 6th place & we finished 6th. We had a fantastic start under him & a horrific finish. That’s a fact. How is this personal? Nothing I have said about him is personal. I called him a cowardly manager, that’s not personal it’s a criticism of his managerial style. If I called him a cowardly man that would be personal. If I commented on his appearance that would be personal. Nothing I have ever said about him is personal.
Bit of a daft quote all round. We got to 2 semi finals last year in his first full season with the club. So far this season we knocked out the Champions of England in the FA Cup, and then knocked out trickier teams in Everton and West Ham.
LVG and Mourinho won cups facing sides that weren't as testing in the whole run, so this idea that Ole can't show cup pedigree is just stupid. There's no other word for it I'm afraid. As for your next season prediction, sure keep it. We weren't predicted to be 2nd right now either so it really shows how much you know.
How about you a go read the full transcript instead of getting angry over a thread title by a Bayern fan on a wum.
We all like to win cups, but winning the FA Cup or Europa is hardly a decisive statement of where we are as a team. I'm sure LVG knows that all too well.
This bit at the end is spot on by Ole and there is no better way to put it.
Wonder what the Venn diagram of those who agree with Ole yet didn't rate Poch because he didn't win a trophy, is
Agree with Ole saying we have to win trophies?
I agree that the league is much harder to win than fluke in a cup. But that's probably down to one season or two. If we are consistently coming in top 4 while not winning the league or cups, then that is not progress. You can't use the same luck excuse for a cup every year.
I think league progression is important, but any trophy win is significant. It's a trophy that you put in your trophy case.
I see what he is saying but we are not in a place where we should be selecting one or the other.
But he isn't saying about selecting one or not wanting to win a trophy. Forget the thread title, see the full interview, it's completely different. In last page I think someone posted with the questions too, to give better context.
It's like Trump taking credit for the economy after Obama left it in a good state.
A manager inherits a squad and works with them, adding here and there. Van Gaal left the cupboard bare, and Jose patched it up with short term ism. Leaving Solskjær with a squad with big money contracts handed out to players who sat on their arses for a living. Ole is sorting that out while idiots online cry about it.
The other context is we're about to enter a period which could potentially knock us out of 2 cup competitions, extending the manager's trophyless reign to 3 years. There's no way that's not playing on his mind, hence his quotes trying to cover all the bases.
And at this point what Ole says isn't as important as him showing results. If he wins Europa he can downplay cups all he wants, and of course if he loses it will be harder to sell progress if we can't even win the 2nd tier competition we crashed into. Bottom line being he needs to win this competition, or at least reach the final.
Click bait 
Not necessarily if we finish 3rd but with more points and goals and less goals conceded that would also allude to progress as well.
I agree with Ole we won the cup with LvG and then sacked him, winning cups is not a sign of progress if it was LvG would have been kept on there is more to it than that, he also said of your good enough you'll win trophies and he expects to be good enough this is such a non story
He's not saying that though. In fact, I think he said himself in that interview, that since he's been at the club he hasn't once felt like he can prioritize one game over the other.
I agree with him winning FA Cup or CoC doesn't mean anything, really, only trophies that have any real meaning or context is PL/CL, neither of which he is likely to win.
So he's playing the cards he's got, what else can he say? Lets hope we keep our league position or soundbites are going to run out fast... I would however add that someone in his position might value any trophy a bit more, if anything, it buys time although LvG would disagree with that haha.
So he's playing the cards he's got, what else can he say? Lets hope we keep our league position or soundbites are going to run out fast... I would however add that someone in his position might value any trophy a bit more, if anything, it buys time although LvG would disagree with that haha.
I'm with Fergie.
“My aim in management has always been to lay foundations that will make a club successful for years, or even decades. Flash-in-the-pan achievements, such as some good runs in cup competitions, with perhaps the odd winning appearance in a final, could never satisfy me. They are exciting and can do wonders for morale but the true indication of worth is to be in contention for the championship season after season. ”
“My aim in management has always been to lay foundations that will make a club successful for years, or even decades. Flash-in-the-pan achievements, such as some good runs in cup competitions, with perhaps the odd winning appearance in a final, could never satisfy me. They are exciting and can do wonders for morale but the true indication of worth is to be in contention for the championship season after season. ”
I just don't see your point. Semi's, 2nd etc etc. It just makes no sense.
But the point is about the luck of the draw actually. People can cry about "If you want to win a competition, you need to beat the best teams". Well, you an always hope for bigger teams drawing each other and you getting to face a big team just once in the competition.
Mou faced just 1 tough game when we won LC, didn't face any regular CL team from a top 5 league when he won EL, LVG didn't face any top 6 team when he won FA Cup, and I can go on.
Hell, look at Pep's 2 FA Cup wins - They didn't face any top side in either of the 2 seasons. The 2 years they drew a top 6 side, they crashed out in Semis.
I get that he could have maybe framed the sentence better, maybe not used the "ego" line at all, and do believe that the club of our size needs to try winning these cups in addition to progression in league, but his bigger point - cups wins is not a definite sign of progression - is 100% correct
Its all about winning the first trophy and the confidence it gives to the players to do it again and again. Fergie said something like this after the 1990 FA cup win. He didnt say trophies dont matter its where we are in the league.
Am I? Or are you in need of clarification.
“Any cup competition can give you a trophy but sometimes it’s more of an ego thing from other managers and clubs to finally win something. But we need to see progress and if we perform well enough the trophies will end up at the club again.
“It’s not like a trophy will say: ‘We’re back.’ No, it’s the gradual progression of being in and around the top of the league and the consistency, and the odd cup competition can hide the fact you’re still struggling a little bit.”
‘The odd cup can hide the fact you’re still struggling a little bit’. Agreed but he’s yet to prove he can even win ‘the odd cup’ so what is he hiding? We look like we’ll go from 3rd to 2nd this season which is progress in itself but that doesn’t have to be exclusive of doing well in cups.
‘Any cup competition can give you a trophy but sometimes it’s more of an ego thing from other managers and clubs to finally win something.’. Citeh et al. aren’t suddenly going to open the door to let us win the league; we could improve & still fall short in that competition so I’d quite like to compete for the ego things as we only have the chance to win 4 trophies at the beginning of each season.
If Pep were to turn round & say he cba with the domestic cups anymore calling them ego things he’d at least be able to show he can win them when he wants to but my issue is we play our strongest sides in all cup competitions, get knocked out at the Semis & now the guy wants to talk about how they only serve to inflate egos.
The whole thing just comes across as further unnecessary comments, to help ease the frustration if we go out of yet another cup competition.
You’re correct he was asked about how you measure progress, his answer just so happened to illuminate his positional progress in the League table [though he’s yet to challenge] whilst downplaying cup competitions, which he’s failed in.
But yes, I’m mad about things he hasn’t said.
So the pertinent question would be: for the teams who have achieved PL and CL glory in recent times, what was the sign of progress for them?
Because it's not finishing in the top 4 for a number of years, nor is it gradually increasing your league standings year on year. Arsenal and Spurs have done both and achieved f.a, while the likes of Chelsea can jump from mid-table to title winners. Even Mourinho crashed down to mid-table after his 2nd place season with us. And according to Ole it's not cup competitions either. So what is the sign of progress we should be looking for?
Is there even a guaranteed measure of progress that one can assuredly say will lead to sustained glory? Or do we need to just task the manager with winning trophies every season, and take each season as it comes?