Bit of a confusing post.
You're optimistic about us signing players & then go on to give all the reasons why nobody should be optimistic about this summer.
Agree with everything btw, except your unfounded optimism.
Solskjaer target 5 signings; 6 players could leave [BBC, Telegraph, Guardian]
- Thread starter roonster09
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Bit of a confusing post.
You're optimistic about us signing players & then go on to give all the reasons why nobody should be optimistic about this summer.
Agree with everything btw, except your unfounded optimism.
Seriously? United was big even before Fergie. It hasn't changed. Its still the biggest club in the UK and one of the biggest around the world regardless of the current state of affairs.
Barca, RM have had their lost in the wilderness years too.
So you were happy with Rojo,Falco,Darmian,Schweinsteiger,Bailly,Mkhitaryan,Fred? Just to agree with you but also point out there are plenty of other bad buy´s and that´s the main reason for the state of us.
I'm always optimistic about us signing good players, no idea why. I agree it's completely unfounded given our unbelievably bad record in the transfer market under Woodward. I guess I just don't think it should be that hard for an extremely rich club to buy some good footballers. Other clubs do it all the time!
However even at my most optimistic I don't see any circumstances in which United have the kind of clear out they need. It'll just be more new contracts for players that shouldn't be here and haggling for months over the likes of Rojo and Darmian.
All depends on what the expectations are for next season. If Ed wants top 4 then a dramatic overhaul isnt the way to do it.
If the expectTion is to build a title challaging squad for the following year then Ole can begin the overhaul.
For what’s it’s worth, I think we should all but write off next season. I’d be expecting an inconsistent form guide but I would want to see signs of improvement; More goals, planned and consistent attacking strategy.
We need a clear out, that much is clear. In Pep’s first pre-season, summer ‘16, they didn’t have huge clear out, after finishing the previous season, in 4th, qualifying for the CL on GD, (finished on 66 points, losing 10 games, mirroring this season for us, minus the CL qualification) They did invest heavily though.
As you say, it wasn’t until the next summer, he cleared out, those that wouldn’t be able to play his style of football. So maybe, Ole will give this squad another go, before wholesale changes.
I’m not sure, what style he wants to play. He talks a good game, survival of the fittest, reality checks, ruthlessness etc, but you have to wonder why he seems, desperate to keep Mata and Young and Jones are getting bumper new contracts.
The players who I want to desperately see leave the club will also likely be the players who'll stick around for another underwhelming campaign.
Our transfers have been shit for nearly a decade now, foreign or PL proven, so I'm not sure what your point is. You can compile a list of just as shit or worse signings made in the same time period from foreign leagues:
Mkhi
Bailly
Depay
Darmian
Schweinsteiger
Rojo
Di Maria
Kagawa
Buttner
I wasn't advocating the strategy btw, I just think that might be how Ole/Phelan will approach the summer window.
Im happy to write off next season as long as we stop paying many of these overpaid twats.
Write off next season? It's not even full first season and people already want him gone.
We're not the biggest club in england other than historically.
If city and us fought for a player bottom dollar bet he'll move to city.
Aaron Wan Bassika
Tielemans
Sancho
Dybala
Fernandez
Kouballiy
I would be happy with those this summer, and next summer we add another 2-3 depending on where we are
Tielemans
Sancho
Dybala
Fernandez
Kouballiy
I would be happy with those this summer, and next summer we add another 2-3 depending on where we are
I think we need to be realistic in who we want at this club. With our limitations at the moment we will not have the pick of the bunch available.
Teams are broken down into 3 categories. Defence, Midfield and Attack. We need to start with the defense in this window.
We need 3 defenders minimum. Left and Right backs and a Centre half. Part of the defense is a defensive midfielder and that is another position we should strengthen(especially since Hererra is leaving).
Worrying about attacking players/wingers now is not going to help us next season if our base is not absolutely right. Get the defense sorted this window, let the "Averagers" have the other end of the park and lets see where that takes us. Play more of the youngsters in the attacking third.
If we can go next season winning most of our games 1-0, that should give us a good base for the next big transfer window.
Teams are broken down into 3 categories. Defence, Midfield and Attack. We need to start with the defense in this window.
We need 3 defenders minimum. Left and Right backs and a Centre half. Part of the defense is a defensive midfielder and that is another position we should strengthen(especially since Hererra is leaving).
Worrying about attacking players/wingers now is not going to help us next season if our base is not absolutely right. Get the defense sorted this window, let the "Averagers" have the other end of the park and lets see where that takes us. Play more of the youngsters in the attacking third.
If we can go next season winning most of our games 1-0, that should give us a good base for the next big transfer window.
Progress is very important. It usually precedes success. I'd love to see Livepool winning nothing this season but I'd also love for us to make the progress they have because we'd actually be challenging for the meaningful trophies then
We don't need Dybala. Doesn't fit into our team IMO. Would be another big name signing for big name sake. We need pace and quality out wide and playmaking in the middle. If we're signing a central he needs to be a 9. We have enough in the hole players.
It's remarkable that it is possible to set up a "shit"-list of nearly 20 players who have played for us the last few years.
They were all bought to the club for having the quality or the potential to play well in one of the biggest and most ambitious clubs in the world. Is it fair to say that they all have failed on an invividual level? Or maybe it's more due to the system, the style of play that the managers want them to fit into? Meaning -if we sell some of our current "shit"-players - they might become shining stars in other clubs playing anoyher style of fotball? And what to we know obout Ole's plan for the next season - will he continue with the same play as we have played in the last month? If he wants to make changes, maybe also some of the current "shit"-players will fit better into that style and suddenly not be considered "shit" anymore..?
Who would you recommend as a striker for us next season, as clearly Lukaku and Rashford are not the guys
What are you talking about. Who wants who gone follow the conversation mate
I want young out
Time to promote some youth
Get rid of the ego’s
And make shrewd quality signings with the right mentality
Simple right haha
Get rid of the ego’s
And make shrewd quality signings with the right mentality
Simple right haha
1 ball playing CB
Wan Bissaka RB
Maddison Creative midfield to help Pogba
Sancho an actual winger
DM to replace Matic.
I think these 5 are must.
Wan Bissaka RB
Maddison Creative midfield to help Pogba
Sancho an actual winger
DM to replace Matic.
I think these 5 are must.
De Gea
Wan-Bissaka - Lindelöf - Smalling - Shaw
Ndombele - Tonali - Pogba
Sancho - Jovic - Rashford
Wan-Bissaka - Lindelöf - Smalling - Shaw
Ndombele - Tonali - Pogba
Sancho - Jovic - Rashford
Wanted to squeeze in a central defender as well, but even though our defenders are average ball players, they are capable at defending. Other areas need more improvement. We have no right side. Our strikers aren't efficient enough, and our midfield needs upgrading - particularly a defensive midfielder.
Honorable mentions: Neves (DM), Rice (DM), Fernandes (MCR), van de Beek (MCR), De Ligt (DC), Koulibaly (DC), Meunier (DR), Felix (STC)
Edit; Actually, the more I think about it, we should get a central defender and left winger as well.
Completely unrealistic of course, but our squad simply isn't good enough. How many players can we honestly say would play consistently in the starting eleven of Barcelona, Real Madrid, PSG or City?
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Im saying most fans already turns on ole. You might want to give him next season regardless. But if this forms keeps on going he'll be gone by christmas
A complete overhaul isnt a guaranteed success. People keeps on thinking all we need is a reset button and everything will be rosy in a few years time. It really doesnt work that way. Our fans has no patience for a total reset. We dont give moyes time, we dont give lvg enough times, we dont give jose enough time, we will likely not give ole enough time for a hard reset.
A total clearout is a very risky desperate measure
And there's a contradiction in your statement. If you're not reaping points it shows no progression or improvement. How can you say you improve when you languished midtable next season? The only way we can improve is being solid top 4, anything other than tangible progress is just romantism. We might need more than few seasons to eventually be a title contender but if we hover in midtable then we're going backwards no matter how good the football we're playing or how mnay youth we had in our squad.
And my point had nothing to do with Ole himself but gutting the squad completely
Wilderness for Barca and Real means 2nd and 3rd place finishes while "only" making it to the 2nd round or quarterfinals of the CL. Their fans would burn down the stadium if they had the wilderness years we've had.
Gutting the squad completely isnt without a risk. Unless we're willing to make a high risk gamble on ole being the man (or who ever that is) and give him complete and absolute authority to gut the squad and endure the aftermath without getting sacked no sane manager would do that.
Or we have a structure in place to do it irrespective of who the manager is....
Anyway the alternative is to continue doing what we have been doing for 6/7 years and to continue failing. Nothing is without risk but we already know most of these players are not worth the risk of their salaries
I think four or five new players.
Hope we dont gut the whole squad.
Hope we dont gut the whole squad.
You're fond of some of this lot?
Structure?
Let's pretend we have barcelona structure. How does it helps players to perform better? Seriously?
A structure helps in the long run, an improvement in accountability and chain of commands, a better youth product, but in the first 5 years no structure can make martial runs harder or lukaku held the ball better or young suddenly turns into cafu.
Our problem isnt structure, many lesser team with less expensive squad shows proper football vision and tactics. They defend and counter, but everyone of them resembles footballer. Yes its nice to restructure while we're at it, but it isnt the fix we need desperately.
Our issue imho is rotten players playing to get the manager sacked every other years so that they get a clean slate and a new contract. This very same player finished 2nd just last year with the same structure the same board the same training ground. Suddenly they forgot how to run and pass the ball 10 yards? And it's down to structure?
I have to say, who Ole gets rid of is almost as important as who he brings in. Come the start of next season, the players have got to be able to look round the dressing room and feel that Ole's stamp is all over the place.
This is where Ole's management will be put to the test and it is frankly where I have the biggest concerns. United will not move forward with Alexis Sanchez, Phil Jones, Ashley Young and Romelu Lukaku reporting back for training. Just the very sight of those players speak to all that has gone badly wrong at United. Bloated wages, players well past their sell by date and others who are patently unfit. I would have others out as well, including anyone prevaricating over their future or stalling on contract negotiations. Ole has to get that dressing room 100% united behind him before a ball is kicked. You cannot have new players coming in to a toxic dressing room where the manager is seen not to be in absolute and total control.
I would love to see Sancho, De Ligt, Koulibaly and Wanbasaka, but I wonder why any of them will come, if they can get better offers from Champions League clubs. I think United may well miss out on the right players who don't want to come because it's the wrong time (no Champions League) and end up getting the wrong players who want to come for the wrong reasons (big paydays). Not being in the Champions League is a massive blow. World class players do not want to play their football on a Thursday night. That's not what they come to United for. As such we may well find that massive wages need to be paid as a sweetener.
This is where Ole's management will be put to the test and it is frankly where I have the biggest concerns. United will not move forward with Alexis Sanchez, Phil Jones, Ashley Young and Romelu Lukaku reporting back for training. Just the very sight of those players speak to all that has gone badly wrong at United. Bloated wages, players well past their sell by date and others who are patently unfit. I would have others out as well, including anyone prevaricating over their future or stalling on contract negotiations. Ole has to get that dressing room 100% united behind him before a ball is kicked. You cannot have new players coming in to a toxic dressing room where the manager is seen not to be in absolute and total control.
I would love to see Sancho, De Ligt, Koulibaly and Wanbasaka, but I wonder why any of them will come, if they can get better offers from Champions League clubs. I think United may well miss out on the right players who don't want to come because it's the wrong time (no Champions League) and end up getting the wrong players who want to come for the wrong reasons (big paydays). Not being in the Champions League is a massive blow. World class players do not want to play their football on a Thursday night. That's not what they come to United for. As such we may well find that massive wages need to be paid as a sweetener.
The issue is that everyone one here knows there are ten to fifteen members of the squad we know aren’t good enough / don’t have the right mentality / don’t want to be here, but yet advocating for them to stay so as not to destabilise the club. They are destabilising the club by being here.
I’d much rather end up sixth or wherever having brought through the likes of Chong, Gomes, Greenwood, Garner etc than another season of with Jones and Rojo as first team CBs.
So here’s what I’d propose, some of it fantasy I’ll admit but here goes:
GK - I hope DDG signs the new deal and returns to what we know he is, the best GK in the world. If not look to sign Oblak (not a priority, if we did most of other stuff I would have no problem with Romero for a season as no. 1
CB: Sell Jones and Rojo, buy De Ligt and promote Axel. Starting CBs De Ligt and Lindelof with Smalling, Axel and Bailly rotating
RB: Valencia’s gone, sell Darmian, bring in a RB (Meunier or AWB) and rotate with Dalot
LB: can’t say I know any of our youngsters at LB but perhaps promote one to back-up Shaw with Dalot covering in emergencies. Ashley Young can cover either FB in cups or Europa.
CM: Herrera's gone, Matic needs to go, Mata I would let go too. I would keep Fred purely for the fact that we won’t get anything for him right now. Pogba I'd keep as a priority as despite what others would say he is by far and away our best player. I’d bring in Neves as a more defensive signing and another as an all-round midfielder. Bring in the likes of Garner and Gomes. Have a starting midfield of new CM, Neves, Pogba with Garner, McT, Gomes and Fred rotating the various positions.
Forwards: I think this is arguably our biggest mess. Lingard I’d keep, purely as a squad player. Martial I’d keep for at least one more season to determine if he is genuine United material. Sanchez and Lukaku I’d boot as soon as an offer came in. Rashford has shown promise but clearly has an issue, either injury or otherwise. Here I’d say we need a RW obviously and a ST. The obvious candidates are Sancho and I’d quite like the idea of Dybala as a false 9. Bring in Chong and Greenwood as cover fro RW and ST. Starting forward line are Sancho, Dybala, Rash/Martial.
Players out: Jones, Rojo, Valencia, Darmian, Herrera, Matic, Mata, Lukaku, Sanchez, perhaps De Gea.
Players in: De Ligt, Meunier/AWB, Neves, new CM, Sancho, Dybala, Oblak (2020 of De Gea goes)
Players promoted: Axel, LB, Garner, Gomes, Chong, Greenwood
This would be the direction I would go, then see what the youngsters have and replace as needed.
I’d much rather end up sixth or wherever having brought through the likes of Chong, Gomes, Greenwood, Garner etc than another season of with Jones and Rojo as first team CBs.
So here’s what I’d propose, some of it fantasy I’ll admit but here goes:
GK - I hope DDG signs the new deal and returns to what we know he is, the best GK in the world. If not look to sign Oblak (not a priority, if we did most of other stuff I would have no problem with Romero for a season as no. 1
CB: Sell Jones and Rojo, buy De Ligt and promote Axel. Starting CBs De Ligt and Lindelof with Smalling, Axel and Bailly rotating
RB: Valencia’s gone, sell Darmian, bring in a RB (Meunier or AWB) and rotate with Dalot
LB: can’t say I know any of our youngsters at LB but perhaps promote one to back-up Shaw with Dalot covering in emergencies. Ashley Young can cover either FB in cups or Europa.
CM: Herrera's gone, Matic needs to go, Mata I would let go too. I would keep Fred purely for the fact that we won’t get anything for him right now. Pogba I'd keep as a priority as despite what others would say he is by far and away our best player. I’d bring in Neves as a more defensive signing and another as an all-round midfielder. Bring in the likes of Garner and Gomes. Have a starting midfield of new CM, Neves, Pogba with Garner, McT, Gomes and Fred rotating the various positions.
Forwards: I think this is arguably our biggest mess. Lingard I’d keep, purely as a squad player. Martial I’d keep for at least one more season to determine if he is genuine United material. Sanchez and Lukaku I’d boot as soon as an offer came in. Rashford has shown promise but clearly has an issue, either injury or otherwise. Here I’d say we need a RW obviously and a ST. The obvious candidates are Sancho and I’d quite like the idea of Dybala as a false 9. Bring in Chong and Greenwood as cover fro RW and ST. Starting forward line are Sancho, Dybala, Rash/Martial.
Players out: Jones, Rojo, Valencia, Darmian, Herrera, Matic, Mata, Lukaku, Sanchez, perhaps De Gea.
Players in: De Ligt, Meunier/AWB, Neves, new CM, Sancho, Dybala, Oblak (2020 of De Gea goes)
Players promoted: Axel, LB, Garner, Gomes, Chong, Greenwood
This would be the direction I would go, then see what the youngsters have and replace as needed.
It means we sign players not because of who the manager is but what direction the club and plan has.
We dont need to trust Ole with anything but coaching players and having an input into recruitment.
Right now we have many players who dont fit Oles style (Matic Martial Lukaku to name a few)
Well we shouldnt be hiring managers with contrasting styles and signing players based on said managers style.
We should be signing players who fit the long term style and plan for football at the club.
Proper football vision and tactics dont just come from the manager by the way.
Also rotten players playing to get a manager sacked. Half the players were not here under Moyes or even LVG. So thats not the only issue. Also if the issue is rotten players all the more reason to gut the squad this summer and stop paying the same players to do the same thing next season.
In the grand scheme of things that's just the same. But instead of the manager the decision is made by dof.
Yes or a committee or long serving club members
My original point however was that we should get the squad this summer. The risk of not doing so outweighs the so called risk of doing so and we have seen what the results of not doing so has reaped over the past 6/7 years
Get rid of any player we dont see in our future in 3 years this summer. No point waiting around
Prediction:
We will come out of it with a Net worse Midfield after losing Pogba and Herrera. Rice Fed/McTominay will be our main starters.
We will improve right back.
We won't sign a centre back.
We will sign our third or fourth choice right winger.
Overall we will be a similar level to this season with a much much worse midfield and near as bad defence.
We will come out of it with a Net worse Midfield after losing Pogba and Herrera. Rice Fed/McTominay will be our main starters.
We will improve right back.
We won't sign a centre back.
We will sign our third or fourth choice right winger.
Overall we will be a similar level to this season with a much much worse midfield and near as bad defence.
Wouldn’t surprise me
If it's the case I will have to find a way to force myself to not be so emotionally invested. Been draining this year more than ever.
Can only let it affect you so much.
Yeah this is pretty much what I’d like to see as well. We signed Pogba when we were in the Europa league so it isn’t all pie in the sky.
Footballers can be talked into joining a project. It just depends if Ole has that charisma.
We have to be prepared as well to move on to plan B if some of those lads aren’t up for it.
We can’t necessarily jump from 6th to the level City and Liverpool are at so let’s look at what it would take to be 3rd/4th next season. Round pegs in round holes would be a massive improvement.