Yeah, this makes sense. Agree that he does seem to be after that sort of player too, it's just they're so rare!
Solskjær press conference vs West Ham (A)
- Thread starter Samid
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Not sure what you mean here. Are you saying we shouldn't discuss it because it doesn't win or lose games?
Never understood the obsession with what managers say in the pressers. But I guess its especially strong now Ole is under pressure and every tiny word he says is scrutinised.
Why bother having them then?! It's surely no great surprise that people discuss what managers say in a forum that's specifically designed to generate discussion?!
It wasn't dismissive.
The question was 'How do you want that two man pivot to work?'
The answer was 'We look for midfielders who are complete. We try to develop that in our midfielders.'
It's pretty clear. Ole doesn't want specialists. He wants two all-rounders next to each other doing a bit of everything. There's no point going into specifics because a Bellingham/Camavinga double pivot (both recent targets) would have a different job against Bayern Munich rather than Norwich.
The main point is that he doesn't want Makalele style limited players. Nothing wrong with that as a philosophy.
Incidentally, it would also give us the flexibility not to need a plan B and help us avoid the downside of being predictable from week to week.
I’m saying why the feck do people get so triggered by press conferences? It’s not going to impact the game
I listen to the podcasts “Talk of the devils” and “The totally football show” which he appears on quite a bit and apart from the volume levels of his voice which vary from loud to inaudible his tactical chat can be quite annoying, like he’s teaching us thick fecks how it works out there on the pitch.
It reminds me of some of the posts in hear when people start talking about trequartistas and mezzalas and how they work in a double pivot with a false 9…bunch of arse I tell ya!
What discussion? I just see the same bunch analyzing every word to reaffirm their own agenda
They're contractually obliged to do press conferences. It's not by choice.
That’s how I read the ‘ proper midfielders’ comment. Now they have to be able to fill more than one role in tandem. Not the battlers of the past. We won’t see their like again
this is going to wind up a lot of people.
So it should given its complete drivel.
All this philosophy talk I think is nonsense and I think ole thinks the same. He wants to win football matches and he wants to win them in a United way by playing fast attacking football if possible. We don’t always see that but he wins a lot of games. I don’t know why it has to be any deeper than that. Bielsa has a philosophy and he gets spanked by any half decent side, to me that makes him foolish rather than admirable as it’s just rinse and repeat for him
Tuchel, Klopp and Pep have one too.
Why do people post on the forum at all? It won't impact the game. The reality is that press conferences do have an impact beyond just the next game. They're the public face the club presents to the world so I'm surprised you're shocked that people discuss them.
All managers do, what I’m saying is it’s not that big of a deal. Winning games is.
Other than player fitness updates, did you really think you were going to learn something from it?
I think you're seeing what you want to see, pal. People are discussing the presser...I've never been a vocal Ole Out guy but I didn't think he handled that well and thought it reflected badly on his tactical acumen.
You win games when you actually have a better tactical nouse. Not just a general "show eagerness, show drive" approach. We've had a good sample period to know that doesn't cut it.
Well, yes. But the question was why people pick over them. My question was, why would they be a thing if people didn't? If there was no discussion allowed around them, why would they be carried out? It's sort of their point...
Do they? When was the last time you posted about a result directly quoting a link to what was said in a PC?
I’m not shocked at a discussion because I simply want to know about injuries and availability. I am not shocked at the negativity at every fecking turn.
Why have we won so many games then and picked up so many points?
Because it only works to an extent. You take Tuchel/Klopp/Conte/Pep and they will also deliver victories with trophies attached, in less time.
The proof is in the pudding thus far. He's in his 4th year, no cups. If he fails to challenge seriously now he's out and it's that simple. If he had won something in his 3 years he might have some good will which I think he would have had if there was better coaching in our approach.
I don't know that the Glazers will want to pay out his contract by sacking him. As long as he makes top 4, they will be happy.
Obviously we have no tactical nous
I wonder that too. (!!)
Discusdion is normal but nitpicking of every word is not, on the contrary.
Hah, I dunno, ideally do your talking on the pitch but at this point after watching his side for 3 years repeatedly being good in some set of things while being consistently shit in others, I'm not convinced that he can do that.
It'll be nice to see him set the right expectations with the fans about what he wants to see in some capacity (whether it's pre / post match interviews, or something he does on MUTV or whatever). So far it's just win, win, win, passion, passion, passion and obviously we won't win everything, so it's just setup for failure. Passion is a flimsy thing, the players worked their socks off against YB but you don't really see anyone talking about hard work or passion here after the defeat.
He obviously doesn't say that to the players otherwise he'd have been out of a job in about 2 months, so I give him more credit than that
It's true that press conferences are cliche mostly but I also feel like other managers talk about what they want a lot more. It's little things here and there about what went well / wrong during a pre-match / post-match interview or maybe something during a 1:1 interview. I posted a bunch of Klopp comments talking about his philosophy earlier on in the thread. Others have posted things about Tuchel and Pep. I don't think anyone can really describe what Ole's philosophy is.
That was before Ronaldo. I'm sure things changed now. I don't care what he says, we are in a title race this season, and if we go on a string of bad results he'll be fecked.
How do you know that?
They signed Brady to win the Super Bowl. Surely Utd winning a trophy only increases revenue
Yeah that’s fine, I like that he takes issue with the philosophy nonsense that is so prevalent these days.
Slightly cringing at his talk of passion, namechecking the usual United legends etc but I agree with his broader point.
To be fair - keeping it simple and letting players express themselves is a philosophy in itself. It doesn’t mean he goes into games without a plan or tactical instructions, but he doesn’t have a rigid style he wants us to constantly stick to every game.
Also, “we want midfielders who can play” is somewhat of a misquote, he interrupts the sentence partway and never finishes it. I did not pick up that at all when reading the presser quotes.
There a lot of things to criticise Ole for but this dissection of his every word is a little overboard. A lot of it is to do with our underwhelming performance in the midweek than what he has actually said. Needs to deliver a comfortable win on Sunday.
Can’t judge a young manager like Ole against experienced ones like those! I know
That's absolutely fine as an idealised belief to aspire towards.
But in real terms a lot of the players he is dealing with and will deal with in the future have specific strengths and weaknesses that have to be accounted for tactically.
He can't on the one hand say he doesn't believe in specialised roles in midfield and then on the other hand start Nemanja Matic against Southampton, who can only function in a specialised role. Because whatever Solskjaer's philosophy is, it has to be able to accommodate the players who are actually at his disposal, which will often involve some specialisation and quite a lot of the "intricacies" he seems to disregard elsewhere in his comments.
To use a slightly different example, take AWB. Even imagining he's the best version of himself he can be, his particular skillset means he will be a constant target for opposition press and someone they're happy to give space to in attack. In other words he is in his own way a specialist player. If we're going to play him then this means the team has to adjust tactically to try and exploit his strengths and minimize his weaknesses, which involves exactly the sort of on-paper "intricacies" Solskjaer referenced.
Ditto players like Pogba, Bruno and Ronaldo. All have strengths/weakness that require specific tactical adjustments when they play in different positions. As such it would be nice to see the manager present himself as someone who is comfortable with the intricacies of football his team depends on rather than giving the appearance of being dismissive of them. Particularly when that appearance feeds into the pre-existing perception that he is lightweight when it comes to preparing the team tactically.
They got Tom Brady to sell more Tampa swag. Winning the Superbowl was a bonus. If they never won a Superbowl with Tom Brady he would have been welcome there as he sells tickets, shirts, and gets them on National TV. The Glazers are about the bottom line and profits going in their pocket, with both the Bucs and United.
No no, it's so rarely done I want to see it more.
Tuchel - Chelsea (bankrolled by a billionaire)
Conte - Chelsea (bankrolled by a billionaire)
Pep - City (bankrolled by a billionaire)
Klopp - Liverpool (shit American owners, took ages to win anything and finish top 4)
Yeah, it fecking sucks that they are. Similar to no 9s, but no doubt we'll have a good batch of them when Haaland inspires a generation.
You need both. What good are tactics when players aren't putting 100% in or the manager isn't getting the message across properly. There's a reason why Klopp acts like a complete maniac on the sidelines at times. It's to drive his players on. His whole philosophy is based around playing with passion. If his team are flat then his pressing game isn't as effective. Same can be said about every team tbh. You can be the greatest tactician but if you have a team that doesn't respond then it's useless.
I am not discounting desire to win.
And it is true that the best laid plans can go completely south due to hundreds of reasons, but yet we plan. We don't stop having strategies because they may fail nevertheless.
It is true that passion is needed to win games, but without proper trained tactics, seems pointless to have lots of passhuunnn.
I would argue that last season we had draws and defeats against these so-called inferior teams because of individual errors/not doing the basics well (e.g., Everton at home, Spurs at home). Moreover, we had a slow start because of fitness issues. If we consistently beat these inferior teams this season - with the odd draw/loss of course - I have no doubt that we will compete this season.
Ok well the extent it’s working to so far is pretty good, it’s just shy of winning something and I agree we need to win something this year and I think we will. The number of points we’ve got, wins and big teams/managers we’ve beaten makes any notion we have no tactics or no philosophy laughable. Further to this he’s transformed the recruitment, culture and overall atmos around the club following the shambles of years we had with moyes/LVG/Jose. He’s more than earned the good will you refer to, hence the contract extension.