Sofyan Amrabat | 2023/24 Performances

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11 progressive passes
9 passes into the final 3rd
3 key passes

He wasn't that safe with his passing, it's just that one time he ignored Granacho on the counter was a bit annoying. He didn't do much defensively but no one from United yesterday made more than 1 tackles.
You're correct he wasn't as safe with his passing as some would think. And for a player who didn't have a pre-season he's playing well. It's about being effective and slowing the game down when necessary.





I think we will sign a holding midfielder to replace Casemiro. But for this season the plan was to have Amrabat with Mainoo along with Casemiro as the first phase midfielders imo. If Mainoo was not an option then I do believe they would've prioritised a deeper lying midfielder via the transfer market.
 
You're correct he wasn't as safe with his passing as some would think. And for a player who didn't have a pre-season he's playing well. It's about being effective and slowing the game down when necessary.





I think we will sign a holding midfielder to replace Casemiro. But for this season the plan was to have Amrabat with Mainoo along with Casemiro as the first phase midfielders imo. If Mainoo was not an option then I do believe they would've prioritised a deeper lying midfielder via the transfer market.

You don’t think Amrabat will turn out to be the guy we settle on for no6?
 
You don’t think Amrabat will turn out to be the guy we settle on for no6?
I don't think so mate but I could be wrong. I think if we want to challenge for the top honours, then we need more options at the base of the midfield. Amrabat is a good signing in the sense that he could help us with developing the framework/structure for a team that has aims of playing a more positional game. I feel Amrabat has been signed to provide Mainoo the cushion that he needs to develop in the short-term. And if Amrabat does well I can see us keeping him because you can never have enough players who provide ball retention as well as ball progression in the defensive third. But I think if we can sign a holding midfielder who has the ability to resist/evade pressure at the base of the midfield, has a passing range, provides security in possession and can also defend opposition transitions in a larger space, we'll be a lot stronger as a team. I don't know who that player is but I'm sure a young player with those attributes is out there somewhere.

The more options we have, the better we'll become as a team. And those options have to be a fit for the way we want to play in possession and also how we control the game out of possession.
 
Tom Cleverley was "tidy". Thats fine for mid table teams but you need to be multifunctional towards the top of the table. Especially when we have a CB who is better than "tidy". McTom came on and inside of a few mins provided far more going forward than he did for the 95% of the game that he played instead.

Tom Cleverley won the league starting every week in CM.
 
I thought he was good yesterday, especially considering it was his first game starting in midfield.

Think some people are just edging to write him off as soon as possible.
 
Well, I would say Cleverly's role in our last title campaign was slightly underrated to some degree.

And, regarding McTom, ofcourse he was influential up the pitch because that's the role he was told to do. Amrabat was asked to stay back and give Evans and Maguire a outlet and he did that effectively until he was subbed for a player who was instructed to get in the box more in the dying minutes.

Regardless of whether asked to do it or not, thats what he would have done. Amrabat isnt any good in attack
 
He was okay. Brentford had no idea to press after the goal so our defenders and Midfielders got lot of time. Let's see how he performs over the period of time.

His game as Left back is still haunting lot of people (including me). So need some convincing that he can be a good player.
 
I haven’t been able to rewatch but from what I remember, Amrabat looked a significant upgrade on Casemiro (this year’s version) and should get another start there.
 
I’m pretty sure that if Saudi clubs come in for Casemiro and Varane with £75m combined fee, they will both be sold.

United will target Rabiot again because he’ll be on a free and £200k per week at 28/29 decent short term. They’ll buy Amrabat and look for a true BTB/10 attacking midfielder to replace Eriksen like Luis Guilherme who’s s left footed creative midfielder and he’ll be cheap compared to the European market?

Would be a good move. Don't think they were bad buys either.

Varane is still a fine player and Casemiro was worth the money - If my understanding of the money made for being in the CL is correct, which is to say around 20M in prize money and then it seems like the major sponsorships (kits, shirt sponsors, are difficult to quantify) but seem to have clauses at least 10M a year) and you agree that no way we make the CL without panic buying him last year - but it makes sense to move on.

United have cash, and while we all wish the cash would be spent on quality players who can and want to be here for a decade, it's also fine to spend big on older players who perform well and fill a gap, even if they're sold at a big loss soon after.
 
Classic example to not look at stats. He was nowhere near “controlling the midfield”. These “stats” are the reason why a section of United fans think Bruno is world class.
He was actually one of the few that played well, he’s not meant to be Pirlo or Eriksen, it’s Bruno and mount that let the team down yesterday not him
 
I don't think so mate but I could be wrong. I think if we want to challenge for the top honours, then we need more options at the base of the midfield. Amrabat is a good signing in the sense that he could help us with developing the framework/structure for a team that has aims of playing a more positional game. I feel Amrabat has been signed to provide Mainoo the cushion that he needs to develop in the short-term. And if Amrabat does well I can see us keeping him because you can never have enough players who provide ball retention as well as ball progression in the defensive third. But I think if we can sign a holding midfielder who has the ability to resist/evade pressure at the base of the midfield, has a passing range, provides security in possession and can also defend opposition transitions in a larger space, we'll be a lot stronger as a team. I don't know who that player is but I'm sure a young player with those attributes is out there somewhere.

The more options we have, the better we'll become as a team. And those options have to be a fit for the way we want to play in possession and also how we control the game out of possession.
Makes sense. I knew he was a good player but, to win, we need exceptional, certainly.

I assumed he was being bought to provide competition for Casemiro who seems to have gone rogue (to some degree) and my view is that just by being at the club, Amrabat can push Casemiro into playing with more intensity and more discipline. And also Amrabat can give EtH a tactical or relief option. I never really expected Amrabat to be able to regularly win a starting place in the team.

What I’m seeing, since he got here, is Amrabat being a potential upgrade on (recent guise of) Casemiro because he is delivering on the promise that he keeps the ball so well (and much better than Casemiro). I say “potential” because, at times, he looks like the pace is too fast for him and he’s struggled a bit defensively; obviously he has some adapting to do (also he’s not 100% fit so can improve physically).

I would say, let’s see how the next 20-30 games shake out because he’s young enough to improve all aspects of his game even if the gains will probably be marginal. If so, it could be that a new DM is further down our list of priorities than a few other positions.
 
Casemiro is a ball winner who scores important goals for us. He also creates more chances than Amrabat

He's had some off games and his tracking back leaves something to be desired for a DM, but he's still several levels above Amrabat who is just a conservative passer and everything else is just about acceptable. Hes not a ball winner, he's not an attacking threat and despite this not being the case against Brentford (and we'll see if a pattern emerges from that) historically Casemiro makes a lot more key passes.
 
Casemiro is a ball winner who scores important goals for us. He also creates more chances than Amrabat

He's had some off games and his tracking back leaves something to be desired for a DM, but he's still several levels above Amrabat who is just a conservative passer and everything else is just about acceptable. Hes not a ball winner, he's not an attacking threat and despite this not being the case against Brentford (and we'll see if a pattern emerges from that) historically Casemiro makes a lot more key passes.
I think we need to observe them both playing over the next few months before we decide whether Case is still several levels above Amrabat. The hope is that Amrabat pushes Case to play better to hold onto his place. Otherwise, Amrabat will displace him.
 
Ah Redcafe! Saying he is not good enough because of his passing when his passing is exactly what we need in that midfield. How many times did Case lose the ball needlessly trying to be adventurous. I didn't expect him to light the league on fire and his start is pretty expected for a Midfielder coming into the epl from a midtable seria A side with virtually zero preseason. Case has been so bad in possession to the extent that a player who was supposed to be cover and slowly build fitness and sharpness now has to come in and be the anchor in midfield which has been the story of Man Utd for a long time. We are counting on a 20yr old now to be the main danger man because our star attacking decided to be shit after a new contract. We are counting on a 35 year old CB released from a relegated side to be our starting CB and are desperate for our loan LB cover to return from injury. It begs the question "how are we here after spending so much money every season foe the past decade??"

Agreed. We finally have a midfielder that keeps the ball - which is what most have been complaining about for a very long time - and we’re criticizing him; that said, Carrick was shat on for a long time on here too
 
If we are going to play him at DM the main concerns for me from yesterday are nothing to do with on the ball quality. He struggled to identify dangerous runs and was non existent in the air, which are a pair of not insignificant problems in the PL. The second will be especially important to improve on when Lisandro comes back.
 
The ball retention is good. Very good. I will happily take a central midfielder who plays square passes when everyone else in that midfield wants to punt it.

I’m just not convinced the rest of his game is up to scratch for the intensity of the PL at the level we want to be. Let’s see.
 
he did quite alright, not setting stars align but club needs more players at this standard and upward.
 
Just watched the replay of yesterday’s match, he is EXCELLENT! Especially in the second half playing DM when Case was taken off.
His technical ability makes him a proper DM and also box-to-box MD. Tempo control and ball moving are very good.
He will leave Case on bench I think.
 
Makes sense. I knew he was a good player but, to win, we need exceptional, certainly.

I assumed he was being bought to provide competition for Casemiro who seems to have gone rogue (to some degree) and my view is that just by being at the club, Amrabat can push Casemiro into playing with more intensity and more discipline. And also Amrabat can give EtH a tactical or relief option. I never really expected Amrabat to be able to regularly win a starting place in the team.

What I’m seeing, since he got here, is Amrabat being a potential upgrade on (recent guise of) Casemiro because he is delivering on the promise that he keeps the ball so well (and much better than Casemiro). I say “potential” because, at times, he looks like the pace is too fast for him and he’s struggled a bit defensively; obviously he has some adapting to do (also he’s not 100% fit so can improve physically).

I would say, let’s see how the next 20-30 games shake out because he’s young enough to improve all aspects of his game even if the gains will probably be marginal. If so, it could be that a new DM is further down our list of priorities than a few other positions.
The problem Casemiro is having is that once De Gea was removed from the team and we stopped going long a lot of the time, he was required to then receive passes in confined spaces instead of receiving passes with the whole game infront of him. And he's not good enough as the holding midfielder in a team that wants to play a positional game against the opponent's press. And his inability in confined spaces was again exposed yesterday. It made sense to sign him due to the profile of players we had occupying positions in the defensive third and playing long meant we didn't have to deal with the opponent's press.

What we're seeing now is that Casemiro, Bruno and Rashford are being asked to either evade the press (Casemiro), stay disciplined positionally and provide security in possession (Bruno) or in Rashford's case, he's being asked to contribute towards the high press and work much harder than he's accustomed to out of possession. And all three players are not comfortable with the extra demands that are required to create a play style that we've failed to create for 10 years. So I do believe Casemiro should either be moved on at the end of the season or become a rotation option. He's not a holding midfielder for a team that wants to play through the midfield because he's uncomfortable in confined spaces.
 
Seen criticism but thought hes been impressive especially given he is still coming to terms with the prem and playing in a really poor midfield at present
 
The problem Casemiro is having is that once De Gea was removed from the team and we stopped going long a lot of the time, he was required to then receive passes in confined spaces instead of receiving passes with the whole game infront of him. And he's not good enough as the holding midfielder in a team that wants to play a positional game against the opponent's press. And his inability in confined spaces was again exposed yesterday. It made sense to sign him due to the profile of players we had occupying positions in the defensive third and playing long meant we didn't have to deal with the opponent's press.

What we're seeing now is that Casemiro, Bruno and Rashford are being asked to either evade the press (Casemiro), stay disciplined positionally and provide security in possession (Bruno) or in Rashford's case, he's being asked to contribute towards the high press and work much harder than he's accustomed to out of possession. And all three players are not comfortable with the extra demands that are required to create a play style that we've failed to create for 10 years. So I do believe Casemiro should either be moved on at the end of the season or become a rotation option. He's not a holding midfielder for a team that wants to play through the midfield because he's uncomfortable in confined spaces.
Case seems to have dealt with this new demand by running forward and scoring goals!

Anyway, he might not be naturally suited to play no6 in this system but I believe he could make a better fist of it than he has been doing. A fit and firing Martinez in the team might help him.

My theory is that having Amrabat after his place might focus his effort somewhat and raise his level.
 
Agreed. We finally have a midfielder that keeps the ball - which is what most have been complaining about for a very long time - and we’re criticizing him; that said, Carrick was shat on for a long time on here too

Carrick was also our best defensive midfielder that allowed our style of play. Enough defending instincts to play an expansive passer next to the likes of Scholes

Amrabat is just a passer
 
Carrick was also our best defensive midfielder that allowed our style of play. Enough defending instincts to play an expansive passer next to the likes of Scholes

Amrabat is just a passer
Did you see Amrabat at the World Cup? He was putting in accomplished all-round DM performances there. It’s a bit simplistic to say he is just a passer.
 
Like others, I thought he was okay.

I get he's still new but I would like a bit more incision with his passing forwards. He's got a good work rate/attitude and from what little I've seen, I think he likes to and can carry the ball in tight spaces (when pressed) so this could be an asset of his.

The overarching issue is our poor shape and lack of passing options all around/in the middle when we have the ball deep so there's always that to take into consideration. I'm mildly positive and compared to what we've got, he's a good addition for now.
 
Case seems to have dealt with this new demand by running forward and scoring goals!

Anyway, he might not be naturally suited to play no6 in this system but I believe he could make a better fist of it than he has been doing. A fit and firing Martinez in the team might help him.

My theory is that having Amrabat after his place might focus his effort somewhat and raise his level.
I think we need his physicality for this season along with his box threat as far as scoring goals is concerned. He's also our best midfielder at winning aerial duels.

But I think by next season we should look to raise the technical, physical and athletic level of the midfield. And I think we should move on from both Casemiro and McTominay and possibly replace both players with one physical and athletic player and other being more of a controller type. Amadou Onana from Everton or Lucas Gourna-Douath from Salzburg are interesting players to replace McTominay. I also like the young midfielder from Antwerp (Vermeeren) who looks a very interesting prospect but at 18 years old he might be deemed too young for a step up to a big club like United and may well be better served going to a stepping stone club like Salzburg or Leipzig.
 
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Like others, I thought he was okay.

I get he's still new but I would like a bit more incision with his passing forwards. He's got a good work rate/attitude and from what little I've seen, I think he likes to and can carry the ball in tight spaces (when pressed) so this could be an asset of his.

The overarching issue is our poor shape and lack of passing options all around/in the middle when we have the ball deep so there's always that to take into consideration. I'm mildly positive and compared to what we've got, he's a good addition for now.

He made more passes forward than anyone else... and hardly misplaced a pass all game.

He has to start over Casemiro right now. The horrific rate at which Case is losing duels right now is just exposing his poor ball retention in a team that is already struggling to execute going forward. We need as much of a stable base to operate out of as possible. Amrabat was excellent when playing as a lone 6 yesterday.
 
He made more passes forward than anyone else... and hardly misplaced a pass all game.

He has to start over Casemiro right now. The horrific rate at which Case is losing duels right now is just exposing his poor ball retention in a team that is already struggling to execute going forward. We need as much of a stable base to operate out of as possible. Amrabat was excellent when playing as a lone 6 yesterday.

Brentford sat off us for the majority of the time and we had a lot of the ball in static positions where Amrabat had time on it. I'm not saying he was poor, I just think he could have moved the ball faster and into better angles etc. He improved in the 2nd half as we played with a better overall tempo but it was a 'good' performance at best. As a deep/er midfielder, it was a very safe performance and a decent foundation for the team to play from, which is all you can ask from in that sense. Of course I'm not expecting him to drop a shoulder and take out one or two players by driving the ball but on an individual level, he could have done more that I think he is capable of.

Like I said, I think he has some good attributes and he can definitely contribute going forward. Considering what we need i.e a stable deep presence and ball recycler, sure it's good as a low bar for now.
 
Very tidy player with a good passing range. Also seems to be able to turn and evade pressure. Let's not forget that he's been playing LB with occasional forays into midfield, and that he only got to play as the sole DM after Casemiro's substitution. Iiker what i saw.

He should help us keep the ball better in the midfield, his passing is not flashy but he keeps it ticking. I think he's capable of spectacular passes as well but it's clear that he's not yet completely in sync with the team. There was a run Garnacho made yesterday which he failed to spot, i think Casemiro would've found him then.
 
He wasn't safe at all. Brentford were 5 at the back and he played several tight passes through the lines. It wasn't a game where the ball over the top to Rashford or Hojlund was on.
Not every pass that isn't a hollywood pass is a risky pass. Also it isn't ultra hard to play progressive passes if you, like Amrabat did yesterday, stay relatively deep. He obviously has the passing capability, but I really hope, he will show more of it eventually. Because right now, I think, it is a bit too safe. I haven't seen much of what McTominay couldn't give you on a very good day. And when we think about upgrading the squad, we have to make sure we actually improve. Amrabat comes as a passing specialist - if anything, that is his reputation.

I’m pretty sure that if Saudi clubs come in for Casemiro and Varane with £75m combined fee, they will both be sold.

United will target Rabiot again because he’ll be on a free and £200k per week at 28/29 decent short term. They’ll buy Amrabat and look for a true BTB/10 attacking midfielder to replace Eriksen like Luis Guilherme who’s s left footed creative midfielder and he’ll be cheap compared to the European market?
Don't think, this is a realistic scenario. Would the Saudi clubs really be so daft for another year? I doubt it, especially as Varane and Casemiro, while certainly have internation reputation, aren't the shiniest names out there. Especially if they would be coming coming from having a rotten year...

He was actually one of the few that played well, he’s not meant to be Pirlo or Eriksen, it’s Bruno and mount that let the team down yesterday not him
He is exactly supposed to give us Pirlos passing capabilities. If he doesn't provide that, then I am not sure, what you expect from him?

I would say, let’s see how the next 20-30 games shake out because he’s young enough to improve all aspects of his game even if the gains will probably be marginal. If so, it could be that a new DM is further down our list of priorities than a few other positions.
I am with you on the "lets see how he does" tour, but lets not kid ourselves that he is "young enough to improve". All we can expect is that he can adapt to his team mates and the league and hopefully recreate some of the qualities he showed for Fiorentina. He seemingly is a late bloomer already, the chances of him improving are not good realistically speaking. If he doesn't fully convince in his time here, there is no point wasting money on a player who doesn't look like a future United player. Give the minutes to somebody, who you think has the potential to be a starter in an all-firing United team. Thats what we have to aspire to be. And we have to handle him just like we (thankfully) handled Sabitzer.

If we are going to play him at DM the main concerns for me from yesterday are nothing to do with on the ball quality. He struggled to identify dangerous runs and was non existent in the air, which are a pair of not insignificant problems in the PL. The second will be especially important to improve on when Lisandro comes back.
I saw that too. I think, he surely can continue to adapt but I don't really buy the "no pre-season" thing, don't know, just doesn't sound convincing to me. He seems weaker than I had expected him to look like, lost a few shoulder to shoulder duels and is slow with a suspicious 1st touch occasionally. Also being bad in the air isn't doing too many favors. Lets hope, he continues to adapt but for now, no matter how bad Casemiro is, I'd rather play him in form than rely on Amrabat. Doesn't mean, I don't see him as a starter, but surely not as a single pivot. Any team that will have a go at us, will kill us. At least that is my feeling.

Just watched the replay of yesterday’s match, he is EXCELLENT! Especially in the second half playing DM when Case was taken off.
His technical ability makes him a proper DM and also box-to-box MD. Tempo control and ball moving are very good.
He will leave Case on bench I think.
Sure you re-watched the actual game and not some EA FC24 match? :) I like the enthusiasm though. But I wouldn't put too much on the Brentford game, they sat off us quite a bit and didn't really challenge in the middle of the park. Think it was a relatively easy game on the ball for Amrabat. There will be way harder matches further down the road.

Brentford sat off us for the majority of the time and we had a lot of the ball in static positions where Amrabat had time on it. I'm not saying he was poor, I just think he could have moved the ball faster and into better angles etc. He improved in the 2nd half as we played with a better overall tempo but it was a 'good' performance at best. As a deep/er midfielder, it was a very safe performance and a decent foundation for the team to play from, which is all you can ask from in that sense. Of course I'm not expecting him to drop a shoulder and take out one or two players by driving the ball but on an individual level, he could have done more that I think he is capable of.

Like I said, I think he has some good attributes and he can definitely contribute going forward. Considering what we need i.e a stable deep presence and ball recycler, sure it's good as a low bar for now.
Exactly my take as well. I really hope, we see more of the long passing that gave him his fbref stats and some of the bulldog-ness that got him some his fans on here. In his games till now, he has been more timid than expected and as some have pointed out, a little too safe with his passing. Keeping it simple is good and right but only if opponents still have to have a go at you because they know you are dangerous with too much time. If you only have the "simple" gear, even if that has some value, it won't be enough.
 
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Not every pass that isn't a hollywood pass is a risky pass. Also it isn't ultra hard to play progressive passes if you, like Amrabat did yesterday, stay relatively deep. He obviously has the passing capability, but I really hope, he will show more of it eventually. Because right now, I think, it is a bit too safe. I haven't seen much of what McTominay couldn't give you on a very good day. And when we think about upgrading the squad, we have to make sure we actually improve. Amrabat comes as a passing specialist - if anything, that is his reputation.


Don't think, this is a realistic scenario. Would the Saudi clubs really be so daft for another year? I doubt it, especially as Varane and Casemiro, while certainly have internation reputation, aren't the shiniest names out there. Especially if they would be coming coming from having a rotten year...


He is exactly supposed to give us Pirlos passing capabilities. If he doesn't provide that, then I am not sure, what you expect from him?


I am with you on the "lets see how he does" tour, but lets not kid ourselves that he is "young enough to improve". All we can expect is that he can adapt to his team mates and the league and hopefully recreate some of the qualities he showed for Fiorentina. He seemingly is a late bloomer already, the chances of him improving are not good realistically speaking. If he doesn't fully convince in his time here, there is no point wasting money on a player who doesn't look like a future United player. Give the minutes to somebody, who you think has the potential to be a starter in an all-firing United team. Thats what we have to aspire to be. And we have to handle him just like we (thankfully) handled Sabitzer.


I saw that too. I think, he surely can continue to adapt but I don't really buy the "no pre-season" thing, don't know, just doesn't sound convincing to me. He seems weaker than I had expected him to look like, lost a few shoulder to shoulder duels and is slow with a suspicious 1st touch occasionally. Also being bad in the air isn't doing too many favors. Lets hope, he continues to adapt but for now, no matter how bad Casemiro is, I'd rather play him in form than rely on Amrabat. Doesn't mean, I don't see him as a starter, but surely not as a single pivot. Any team that will have a go at us, will kill us. At least that is my feeling.


Sure you re-watched the actual game and not some EA FC24 match? :) I like the enthusiasm though. But I wouldn't put too much on the Brentford game, they sat off us quite a bit and didn't really challenge in the middle of the park. Think it was a relatively easy game on the ball for Amrabat. There will be way harder matches further down the road.


Exactly my take as well. I really hope, we see more of the long passing that gave him his fbref stats and some of the bulldog-ness that got him some his fans on here. In his games till now, he has been more timid than expected and as some have pointed out, a little too safe with his passing. Keeping it simple is good and right but only if opponents still have to have a go at you because they know you are dangerous with too much time. If you only have the "simple" gear, even if that has some value, it won't be enough.
I couldn't read beyond he should be passing like Pirlo.
 
Not every pass that isn't a hollywood pass is a risky pass. Also it isn't ultra hard to play progressive passes if you, like Amrabat did yesterday, stay relatively deep. He obviously has the passing capability, but I really hope, he will show more of it eventually. Because right now, I think, it is a bit too safe. I haven't seen much of what McTominay couldn't give you on a very good day. And when we think about upgrading the squad, we have to make sure we actually improve. Amrabat comes as a passing specialist - if anything, that is his reputation.


Don't think, this is a realistic scenario. Would the Saudi clubs really be so daft for another year? I doubt it, especially as Varane and Casemiro, while certainly have internation reputation, aren't the shiniest names out there. Especially if they would be coming coming from having a rotten year...


He is exactly supposed to give us Pirlos passing capabilities. If he doesn't provide that, then I am not sure, what you expect from him?


I am with you on the "lets see how he does" tour, but lets not kid ourselves that he is "young enough to improve". All we can expect is that he can adapt to his team mates and the league and hopefully recreate some of the qualities he showed for Fiorentina. He seemingly is a late bloomer already, the chances of him improving are not good realistically speaking. If he doesn't fully convince in his time here, there is no point wasting money on a player who doesn't look like a future United player. Give the minutes to somebody, who you think has the potential to be a starter in an all-firing United team. Thats what we have to aspire to be. And we have to handle him just like we (thankfully) handled Sabitzer.


I saw that too. I think, he surely can continue to adapt but I don't really buy the "no pre-season" thing, don't know, just doesn't sound convincing to me. He seems weaker than I had expected him to look like, lost a few shoulder to shoulder duels and is slow with a suspicious 1st touch occasionally. Also being bad in the air isn't doing too many favors. Lets hope, he continues to adapt but for now, no matter how bad Casemiro is, I'd rather play him in form than rely on Amrabat. Doesn't mean, I don't see him as a starter, but surely not as a single pivot. Any team that will have a go at us, will kill us. At least that is my feeling.


Sure you re-watched the actual game and not some EA FC24 match? :) I like the enthusiasm though. But I wouldn't put too much on the Brentford game, they sat off us quite a bit and didn't really challenge in the middle of the park. Think it was a relatively easy game on the ball for Amrabat. There will be way harder matches further down the road.


Exactly my take as well. I really hope, we see more of the long passing that gave him his fbref stats and some of the bulldog-ness that got him some his fans on here. In his games till now, he has been more timid than expected and as some have pointed out, a little too safe with his passing. Keeping it simple is good and right but only if opponents still have to have a go at you because they know you are dangerous with too much time. If you only have the "simple" gear, even if that has some value, it won't be enough.
He’s 27. Most players continue to improve until at least 30 if they don’t have injury problems that reduce their physical capabilities. I did say marginal (probably) improvement so you’re making a non-point there. He made safe passes to make sure we retained possession but he also made the odd incisive pass. I’m happy with his passing. I was less happy with his defensive positioning and recovery in the first half but it seemed to get better after Case went off. I think you’re worrying too much.
 
Not every pass that isn't a hollywood pass is a risky pass. Also it isn't ultra hard to play progressive passes if you, like Amrabat did yesterday, stay relatively deep. He obviously has the passing capability, but I really hope, he will show more of it eventually. Because right now, I think, it is a bit too safe. I haven't seen much of what McTominay couldn't give you on a very good day. And when we think about upgrading the squad, we have to make sure we actually improve. Amrabat comes as a passing specialist - if anything, that is his reputation.


Don't think, this is a realistic scenario. Would the Saudi clubs really be so daft for another year? I doubt it, especially as Varane and Casemiro, while certainly have internation reputation, aren't the shiniest names out there. Especially if they would be coming coming from having a rotten year...


He is exactly supposed to give us Pirlos passing capabilities. If he doesn't provide that, then I am not sure, what you expect from him?


I am with you on the "lets see how he does" tour, but lets not kid ourselves that he is "young enough to improve". All we can expect is that he can adapt to his team mates and the league and hopefully recreate some of the qualities he showed for Fiorentina. He seemingly is a late bloomer already, the chances of him improving are not good realistically speaking. If he doesn't fully convince in his time here, there is no point wasting money on a player who doesn't look like a future United player. Give the minutes to somebody, who you think has the potential to be a starter in an all-firing United team. Thats what we have to aspire to be. And we have to handle him just like we (thankfully) handled Sabitzer.


I saw that too. I think, he surely can continue to adapt but I don't really buy the "no pre-season" thing, don't know, just doesn't sound convincing to me. He seems weaker than I had expected him to look like, lost a few shoulder to shoulder duels and is slow with a suspicious 1st touch occasionally. Also being bad in the air isn't doing too many favors. Lets hope, he continues to adapt but for now, no matter how bad Casemiro is, I'd rather play him in form than rely on Amrabat. Doesn't mean, I don't see him as a starter, but surely not as a single pivot. Any team that will have a go at us, will kill us. At least that is my feeling.


Sure you re-watched the actual game and not some EA FC24 match? :) I like the enthusiasm though. But I wouldn't put too much on the Brentford game, they sat off us quite a bit and didn't really challenge in the middle of the park. Think it was a relatively easy game on the ball for Amrabat. There will be way harder matches further down the road.


Exactly my take as well. I really hope, we see more of the long passing that gave him his fbref stats and some of the bulldog-ness that got him some his fans on here. In his games till now, he has been more timid than expected and as some have pointed out, a little too safe with his passing. Keeping it simple is good and right but only if opponents still have to have a go at you because they know you are dangerous with too much time. If you only have the "simple" gear, even if that has some value, it won't be enough.
The notation that Brentford sat deeply is completely wrong. In the second half, they tried to come up to us and dominate several times, but they just simply couldn’t achieve it. We found very balanced team in the second half. That’s it.
 
He does look somewhat limited but I thought he did a better job screening our defence yesterday than Casemiro did.
 
Brentford sat off us for the majority of the time and we had a lot of the ball in static positions where Amrabat had time on it. I'm not saying he was poor, I just think he could have moved the ball faster and into better angles etc. He improved in the 2nd half as we played with a better overall tempo but it was a 'good' performance at best. As a deep/er midfielder, it was a very safe performance and a decent foundation for the team to play from, which is all you can ask from in that sense. Of course I'm not expecting him to drop a shoulder and take out one or two players by driving the ball but on an individual level, he could have done more that I think he is capable of.

Like I said, I think he has some good attributes and he can definitely contribute going forward. Considering what we need i.e a stable deep presence and ball recycler, sure it's good as a low bar for now.

I mean I think starting him and Casemiro is sort of pointless yeah. Amrabat is clearly most comfortable as the deepest midfielder that can just keep things ticking over. Him and Casemiro should only be paired in a game where we might want to sit off and have 3 true forwards instead of doing the 4th midfielder gimmick of Bruno/Mount on the right.
 
I think we need his physicality for this season along with his box threat as far as scoring goals is concerned. He's also our best midfielder at winning aerial duels.

But I think by next season we should look to raise the technical, physical and athletic level of the midfield. And I think we should move on from both Casemiro and McTominay and possibly replace both players with one physical and athletic player and one the being more of a controller type. Amadou Onana from Everton or Lucas Gourna-Douath from Salzburg are interesting players to replace McTominay. I also like the young midfielder from Antwerp (Vermeeren) who looks a very interesting prospect but at 18 years old he might be deemed too young for a step up to a big club like United and may well be better served going to a stepping stone club like Salzburg or Leipzig.
Agreed.
 
I mean I think starting him and Casemiro is sort of pointless yeah. Amrabat is clearly most comfortable as the deepest midfielder that can just keep things ticking over. Him and Casemiro should only be paired in a game where we might want to sit off and have 3 true forwards instead of doing the 4th midfielder gimmick of Bruno/Mount on the right.

I understand where you're coming from but I think this is a dangerous way of thinking and that's not to do with their individual ability. I mentioned it in my original post you quoted but the biggest issue is still the team shape, tactics and playing personnel, which is entirely on ETH.

Unless we're pinning our hopes on Mainoo, at the moment it doesn't look like ETH fancies Hannibal in a 8 position so the likelihood is that any midfield/forward combination is going to have a Bruno and Mount pairing. So any pairing with Casemiro/Amrabat with Eriksen/Mount/Bruno and then someone else ahead is just reckless with the way we play right now.

I don't trust us against better teams and there will be better teams because Brentford didn't come to play at all, which kind of goes back to my first point. Amrabat did okay and I'm not being too critical of him but we can't expect him to do that alone and be effective against other teams. For clarity when I mean better teams, I mean pretty much everyone else that is not bottom 3-4; that's how poor I think we are atm.
 
We look better with him in the team than without at this moment. I don't really care what the stats say.

He may not have lit up the game but he showed composure and got the basics right. That is all we can ask for given that most of the squad are in shambles. I reckon he will only improve from here.
 
I think some people think his passing is safe because he actually finds his man :lol:.

He was the least of our midfield problems against Brentford really. As he gets up to pace he will hopefully move the ball a tad quicker at times.
 
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