...and me, despite being a Welsh protestant.
Society of Black Lawyers
- Thread starter NinjaFletch
- Start date
You asked what the ethnic common denominator is. Plech told you that the vast majority of Jews share a common bloodline. To which you responded "the whole of the human race share a common bloodline".
Do you not understand what ethnicity is?
He's not a follower of Judaism. That's the point. But he was still ethnically and (I presume) culturally Jewish.
I don't think he understands that Jews share a common gene pool therefore can be classed as a distinct ethnic group/race which can be further divided into sub groups such as Ashkenazi, Sephardi etc. Besides racism doesn't simply cover race... only a primary school pupil would think that, wouldn't they?
Richard Schiff's character in The Infidel is another example of someone who is ethnically and culturally Jewish but is not religiously Jewish.
Loads of Poles/Russians have Turkic/Mongol features. I suspect any Turkic Jewish genes is down to Attila and his mates leaving their genes behind rather than Khazari blood.
You seem to be saying there are no ethnic groups. Obviously we're all related, but certain groups are genetically closer. In the case of Jews, there seems to have been surprisingly little inter-marriage (or inter-boning) with surrounding populations in the diaspora.
The triangles are various Jewish sub-groups.
There was a recent book out in Israel which sold a lot saying that this was bollocks, but it was probably bollocks.
Is this directed at me because I agree with your points in this post.
I was being sacry, because he was failing to grasp the point. Maybe it's too late...
There is actuall evidence of it in Turkey, where you can find archaeologist evidence of it and even some claim that some even is living in that belief because of that still (I do not know enough about it to say it's absolutly so though).
I have read a fair bit of Marx and it's not that he didn't "rate jews" he just didn't rate judaism because he was a atheist even more than he was a believer of what has become socialism and communism.
First of all, and as has been pointed out to you, a person doesn't need to be a follower of the Judaic faith to be classed as a Jew. As well as a religion, there also exists a Jewish ethnic/cultural and racial group. Secondly, your understanding of anti-Semitism is very limited if you think that religion is a major factor. Anti-Semitism is primarily a form of racism (in the strict, traditionally sense of the word). When Hitler wanted to solve the 'Jewish Problem', he didn't care if they were religious Jews or not. It was about race.
Brilliant. Clueless feckers the lot of you.
Would you care to enlighten us?
Yeah you'd probably struggle to find anyone outside South America and Australia who doesn't have a bit of Attila in him.
Ron Jeremy tried to do the same for Jews, but made the schoolboy error of jizzing everywhere except where it counts.
He did say things like "What is the object of the Jew's worship in this world? Usury. What is his worldly god? Money", which don't seem massively keen.
Eboue said:
What a shit film that was.
Yeah but after The West Wing, I'll watch anything with him in it.
He's very loveable in The West Wing, though he always looks like he could do with a wash.
(That's racist.)
(That's racist.)
All the East London pillocks call Tottenham offensive words for being Jewish but Arsenal actually have a bigger Jewish fanbase, and West Ham is the most multicultural club in the Football Leagues... fecking Society of Black Lawyers.
I'm offended by this
Awesome
I'm offended by this
Awesome
Judaism has no "hereditary requirement".
Just as many Spurs fans will happily sing "Jermain Defoe, he's a Yiddo" despite not being Jewish themselves ... and despite the fact that Defoe is an avowed Christian.
Me? I'm a post-apocalyptic re-constructionist buddhist-pagan ... sort of. And Jermain? He's still a Yiddo.
Yes it does. Traditionally you had to have a Jewish mother to be considered a Jew. The modern Liberal sect, and Reform in America but not here, allow patrilinear descent, but that's very recent (and still, obviously, a hereditary requirement).
As I said, conversion is possible but they make it hard, and it's quite rare. The vast majorty of Jews had at least one, and usually two, Jewish parents, as did their parents. They've done genetic studies on Ashkenazi and Sephardi Jews from thousands of miles apart, they all share a recent common middle-eastern ancestor. They've even found that Cohanim, the priestly caste who tend to be called Cohen, Kahn etc., share descent from a small, recent group of ancestors.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genetic_studies_on_Jews
No. It was about convenient scape-goating and stupidity.
Scape-goating that included targetting homosexuals, gypsies, "intellectuals", "slavs" and "communists" as well as "Jews". Jews were simply the most immediately accessible and visible target.
And wilful stupidity that ignored the fact that we all stem from (a very few) common African ancestors.
As for your "As well as a religion, there also exists a Jewish ethnic/cultural and racial group". You might as well say that there exists a distinctive Buddhist "ethnic/cultural and racial group" - as there does in Thailand for example. Or similarly with Hinduism in India. But neither of these facts make Buddhism or Hinduism a "race" of people: they are religions first and foremost.
So let's get back to the point, namely that the Society of Black Lawyers say that use by some Spurs fans of the word "Yid" or "Yiddo" is racist.
So who are they being racist against? Themselves?
And what is "Yiddish"? Wiki says it's a High German language ... spoken in many parts of the world [which] ... developed as a fusion of Hebrew and Aramaic into German dialects with the infusion of Slavic and traces of Romance languages.
Not much evidence there that Yiddism is an ethnic "race".
'Race' is another matter. It's not really clear that there are any real races.
Jews are most definitely an ethnic group though, and the reason is obvious - because parental descent, usually maternal, has for thousands of years been required for membership of the group.
Even today, the Reform synagogue - that's one of the less dogmatic sects when it comes to traditional values - won't accept my daughter as Jewish because her mum's not. Or take Israel, where any Jew can claim citizenship but no-one asks you anything about religion.
I give up though, if you're not going to listen. Unless you're just arguing for the sake of it, in which case I accept that whatever your parentage you are indeed a Yiddo
Jews are most definitely an ethnic group though, and the reason is obvious - because parental descent, usually maternal, has for thousands of years been required for membership of the group.
Even today, the Reform synagogue - that's one of the less dogmatic sects when it comes to traditional values - won't accept my daughter as Jewish because her mum's not. Or take Israel, where any Jew can claim citizenship but no-one asks you anything about religion.
I give up though, if you're not going to listen. Unless you're just arguing for the sake of it, in which case I accept that whatever your parentage you are indeed a Yiddo
And, in my experience, even the Reform synagogues which do accept potential converts require them to study damn hard in order to 'qualify'.
So the Holocaust was just about political scapegoating? It had nothing to do with racial hatred? Right oh!
Your logic on your final point, about the word Yid and whether or not it is a racist term, is weak. Are you religious by any chance? Yes, Yiddish is a language, but we are not just talking about 'Yid' or 'Yiddo' as a description of a language. We are talking about them as slurs. Who are these slurs applied to? Speakers of the Yiddish language specifically? Or a larger ethnic/racial group? When an anti-Semite calls someone a 'fecking Yid', 99% of the time the ability of the victim to speak the Yiddish language is not important. His racial/ethnic identity is.
I'm not arguing that the Spurs fans' usage of the term is racist, by the way. In my first post in this thread I said that they are entitled to reclaim the word due to the Jewish heritage of the club and its fanbase, providing Jewish supporters are okay with this. You should still be able to recognise that Yid or Yiddo are potentially racist terms, though.
Try a less superficial analysis: as I've said, genetic studies show that we ALL share a common African ancestor. Does that today make us all "black"? No ... no more than all Jews are of the same "race".
Are Ethiopian Jews of the same "race" as Russian Jews?
It's all just so much bollocks.
I'm not sure Hitler had it in for intellectuals as such, he supported the arts he believed in, and if anything over-supported science compared to production. Also it would have been hard for him to have been willfully stupid about common African ancestors considering the 'out of Africa' theory only came about several decades after his death.
To be fair, Hitler was incredibly dismissive of the Jewish religion. I can't be arsed to find the exact quote but his opinion of it was along the lines that it was 'the greatest lie in the history of humanity' invented purely for the self preservation of the Jewish race.
The Holocaust most definitely targeted racial, rather than religious, Jews.
The RSPB are to complain to the FA and demand that action be taken against fans who support clubs who have birds as their nicknames. Sheffield Wednesday's Owl Army's hoots will be silenced after the RSPB set a deadline of November 20th for such chants to stop as they have evidence birds are being caused harrassment and distress. Similarly Brighton's Seagull Army and Crystal Palace's Eagle Army have been known to cause offence to millions of Seagulls and the occassional eagle passing Selhurst Park way. Notts County and Newcastle United from the deadline date will be be stripped of their Magpies nickname as it's one for sorrow but not in this case two for joy. Cardiff's Bluebirds will no longer be and even the mighty Liverpool will have all vestiges of the Liverbird crest removed from official club merchandise. West Bromwich Albion will be not affected as they have been good boys and dropped their traditional nickname of The Throstles in favour of The Baggies years ago although there could be complaints from people with particularly thin legs whose trousers hang very loose on them. Derby County are bracing themselves for an onslaught from the RSPCA and are already thinking of changing their nickname from The Rams to just plain old boring County. Tree lovers will also be glad to know that from November 20th Nottingham Forest will now be known simply as Nottingham and their nickname changed to Treehuggers.
As I said, in that case you are rejecting the concept of ethnicity entirely. The Bedouin and the Japanese also share a common ancestor, but they're still different ethnicities.
The Ethiopian Falashas are the exception that proves the rule. It is true they are ethnically different; all the other branches are clustered round the same genetic area as Arabs etc., as you can see in the genetic map I posted above ("EtJ" are the Falashas):
They're effectively converts - ethnicity doesn't capture the entire group, but nor does religion, not by a long shot.
A closer parallel than Christianity or Islam is the Roma, who are similarly a disparate group who were expelled from their homeland and share a complex of traits - culture, language, ethnicity, nationality - without any being the trump card.
I just walked into this thread and I'm fecking off pronto. Bit much for me.
Glaston should have taken that approach being a non-Jewish, non-working-class, non-Tottenham nouveau Spurs fan.
Glaston's one of the few WUMs which actually seriously manages to wind me up. Something about his hideous Kaspar Hauser persona. And I'm talking on a global scale here.
So as expected, these clowns wasted police time. Great way to further your cause! Next up, the embarrasment of being spanked by Tottenham.
feck, threads like this make me wish I'd done anthropology at university. I got accepted onto an anthro course at UCL, then fecked up my exams and missed out
Threads like this make me glad I don't do anthropology at uni.
Oh and as predicted, the justice league have made themselves look like even bigger brainless, attention seeking, hypocritical cretins today.
Incorrect, I don't think you'll find any evidence whatsoever that Hitler did not want to get rid of the Jews, as a race, in Europe. Yes, of course, he had other "undesirables" put away too, to add to the one's you mention, political objectors and mentally and physically handicapped......
I note this morning that the SBL are unhappy with Chelsea and the FA, will they now report them to the Police too ?
Kind of ignored this and put them down as a bunch of attention seekers. Having read this latest episode and their suggestion of a Chelsea / FA cover, I have re-evaluated my opinion to them being a bunch of feckwits.
Yep, utter plebs. Either way, any more wasting police time and surely they should be investigated themselves?
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/20321225
what an attention seeking group. nothing more than that. if anything racist was carried out then obviously it needs to be punished but these guys are using anything in the public eye as their own vehicle. How he came to write a complaint to police himself, about an incident he was nowhere near, then publicly condemn them when NO witness comes forward to confirm anything at all was done to them is just mindboggling. You just know what type of up his own arse pretentious wannabee big shot this guy herbert is. And has no idea of how stupid he makes himself look.
edit~: his own website confirms my suspicions, and if further proof was needed his personalised number plate "p400 LAW" should be more than enough for everybody to just stop listening to what he has to say.
what an attention seeking group. nothing more than that. if anything racist was carried out then obviously it needs to be punished but these guys are using anything in the public eye as their own vehicle. How he came to write a complaint to police himself, about an incident he was nowhere near, then publicly condemn them when NO witness comes forward to confirm anything at all was done to them is just mindboggling. You just know what type of up his own arse pretentious wannabee big shot this guy herbert is. And has no idea of how stupid he makes himself look.
edit~: his own website confirms my suspicions, and if further proof was needed his personalised number plate "p400 LAW" should be more than enough for everybody to just stop listening to what he has to say.
Is he?
I'm sure I once sat in his ST seat (went with the chap who has the seat next to him) in the North stand at OT when he was at some golf tournament in the USA.